'' Tragic Deaths Illinois River south Ore''

'' Tragic Deaths Illinois River south Ore''

Post by Pam » Tue, 24 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Just heard some Bad news from my friends on the Curry county Search and
Rescue: Apparently a group of Rafters<not sure of the names yet> were on
there second day of a 2 day trip in the canyon.,and over a inch of rain
fell over night,transforming the river from a Joyous 2000 cfs to a
Wicked 7500cfs maelstrom, unfortunately this group tried to raft out of
the canyon,and flipped their boats, resulting in disaster. apparently 2
bodies have been recovered and 2 people are still missing. For those of
you unfamiliar with this river it is extremely remote.no roads,no
trails, no nothing, its a 32 mile wilderness float to the confluence of
the Wild and Scenic Rogue, the canyon is very deep,and the banks of the
river, while not vertical walled, are very steep.The river boast only 1
class 5 rapid ''The Green Wall''and about 10 class 4 -4+ rapids. The
problem with this river is, it gets Big and out of control fast,people
realizing they don't want to be stuck in this remote canyon,not being
able to walk out ,they make the mistake of trying to raft out. This is
where the term ''Flush Drowning'' comes in to play.  what happens when
you flip in this type of water is the swimmers flush way down river away
from the boat, and of course there's absolutely no eddies anywhere, your
swimming threw a maze of Big exploding waves and Holes,with No way Out
of the water, and its just amatter of time.I live very Close to the take
out of this river,and have boated many ,many times,and it really amazes
me people still want to boat this river over 7000cfs

 
 
 

'' Tragic Deaths Illinois River south Ore''

Post by Gary Paga » Sat, 28 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> If only an inch of rain causes such a rapid rise in this river, it
> would seem to be well known a very dangerous.  Did they have
> experienced guides?  Are there often deaths on this river and we just
> don't hear about it much on the East coast?  What happens if they get
> three or four inches?

From the press reports i've seen, i don't think they had any guides.  My
sister lives but two miles from that river and she's always telling me of
people who get rescued from there...in partucular, The Green Wall area.

 
 
 

'' Tragic Deaths Illinois River south Ore''

Post by F.D. Ha » Sun, 29 Mar 1998 04:00:00

If only an inch of rain causes such a rapid rise in this river, it
would seem to be well known a very dangerous.  Did they have
experienced guides?  Are there often deaths on this river and we just
don't hear about it much on the East coast?  What happens if they get
three or four inches?

Quote:

>Just heard some Bad news from my friends on the Curry county Search and
>Rescue: Apparently a group of Rafters<not sure of the names yet> were on
>there second day of a 2 day trip in the canyon.,and over a inch of rain
>fell over night,transforming the river from a Joyous 2000 cfs to a
>Wicked 7500cfs maelstrom, unfortunately this group tried to raft out of
>the canyon,and flipped their boats, resulting in disaster. apparently 2
>bodies have been recovered and 2 people are still missing. For those of
>you unfamiliar with this river it is extremely remote.no roads,no
>trails, no nothing, its a 32 mile wilderness float to the confluence of
>the Wild and Scenic Rogue, the canyon is very deep,and the banks of the
>river, while not vertical walled, are very steep.The river boast only 1
>class 5 rapid ''The Green Wall''and about 10 class 4 -4+ rapids. The
>problem with this river is, it gets Big and out of control fast,people
>realizing they don't want to be stuck in this remote canyon,not being
>able to walk out ,they make the mistake of trying to raft out. This is
>where the term ''Flush Drowning'' comes in to play.  what happens when
>you flip in this type of water is the swimmers flush way down river away
>from the boat, and of course there's absolutely no eddies anywhere, your
>swimming threw a maze of Big exploding waves and Holes,with No way Out
>of the water, and its just amatter of time.I live very Close to the take
>out of this river,and have boated many ,many times,and it really amazes
>me people still want to boat this river over 7000cfs


 
 
 

'' Tragic Deaths Illinois River south Ore''

Post by WWRaft0 » Sun, 29 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Re:  Guides.  I don't know where you are from but in the West there are many
private boaters who are much more experienced than "Guides".  One of the
rafters who died was a guide.   This particular word in reference to experience
really doesn't have much meaning.  There are, of course, many guides who are
expert, extremely competent boaters and others who just got the job last week
and don't have much experience at all.  Many of the harder runs in the west are
rarely run comercially and you are your own "Guide".  Rely on yourself and use
your head.  

 
 
 

'' Tragic Deaths Illinois River south Ore''

Post by Pam » Sun, 29 Mar 1998 04:00:00

I totally agree with this. Most of the guides I know, are ski bums looking for a
summer time job. However I know few of the actual people that employ these guides,
and they are world class boatman: For instance Roger Lee of Wilderness
Adventures,he has taken people down Golden Gate,<South Fork American> and were
talking no portages,and no swimmers in a raft!! How many people do you know that
can do that? How does one obtain the title of guide?As far as I know there's no
test for it.What are the nesacary credentials? Maybe taking a few people through
Satan's cesspool in the summertime?. Hence some so called ''guides'' just drive the
shuttle van ,and some are world class boatman.

Quote:

> Re:  Guides.  I don't know where you are from but in the West there are many
> private boaters who are much more experienced than "Guides".  One of the
> rafters who died was a guide.   This particular word in reference to experience
> really doesn't have much meaning.  There are, of course, many guides who are
> expert, extremely competent boaters and others who just got the job last week
> and don't have much experience at all.  Many of the harder runs in the west are
> rarely run comercially and you are your own "Guide".  Rely on yourself and use
> your head.

 
 
 

'' Tragic Deaths Illinois River south Ore''

Post by Pam » Sun, 29 Mar 1998 04:00:00

I totally agree with this. Most of the guides I know, are ski bums looking for a
summer time job. However I know few of the actual people that employ these guides,
and they are world class boatman: For instance Roger Lee of Wilderness
Adventures,he has taken people down Golden Gate,<South Fork American> and were
talking no portages,and no swimmers in a raft!! How many people do you know that
can do that? How does one obtain the title of guide?As far as I know there's no
test for it.What are the nesacary credentials? Maybe taking a few people through
Satan's cesspool in the summertime?. Hence some so called ''guides'' just drive the
shuttle van ,and some are world class boatman.

Quote:

> Re:  Guides.  I don't know where you are from but in the West there are many
> private boaters who are much more experienced than "Guides".  One of the
> rafters who died was a guide.   This particular word in reference to experience
> really doesn't have much meaning.  There are, of course, many guides who are
> expert, extremely competent boaters and others who just got the job last week
> and don't have much experience at all.  Many of the harder runs in the west are
> rarely run comercially and you are your own "Guide".  Rely on yourself and use
> your head.

 
 
 

'' Tragic Deaths Illinois River south Ore''

Post by Pam » Sun, 29 Mar 1998 04:00:00

I totally agree with this. Most of the guides I know, are ski bums looking for a
summer time job. However I know few of the actual people that employ these guides,
and they are world class boatman: For instance Roger Lee of Wilderness
Adventures,he has taken people down Golden Gate,<South Fork American> and were
talking no portages,and no swimmers in a raft!! How many people do you know that
can do that? How does one obtain the title of guide?As far as I know there's no
test for it.What are the nesacary credentials? Maybe taking a few people through
Satan's cesspool in the summertime?. Hence some so called ''guides'' just drive the
shuttle van ,and some are world class boatman.

Quote:

> Re:  Guides.  I don't know where you are from but in the West there are many
> private boaters who are much more experienced than "Guides".  One of the
> rafters who died was a guide.   This particular word in reference to experience
> really doesn't have much meaning.  There are, of course, many guides who are
> expert, extremely competent boaters and others who just got the job last week
> and don't have much experience at all.  Many of the harder runs in the west are
> rarely run comercially and you are your own "Guide".  Rely on yourself and use
> your head.

 
 
 

'' Tragic Deaths Illinois River south Ore''

Post by Pam » Sun, 29 Mar 1998 04:00:00

I totally agree with this. Most of the guides I know, are ski bums looking for a
summer time job. However I know few of the actual people that employ these guides,
and they are world class boatman: For instance Roger Lee of Wilderness
Adventures,he has taken people down Golden Gate,<South Fork American> and were
talking no portages,and no swimmers in a raft!! How many people do you know that
can do that? How does one obtain the title of guide?As far as I know there's no
test for it.What are the nesacary credentials? Maybe taking a few people through
Satan's cesspool in the summertime?. Hence some so called ''guides'' just drive the
shuttle van ,and some are world class boatman.

Quote:

> Re:  Guides.  I don't know where you are from but in the West there are many
> private boaters who are much more experienced than "Guides".  One of the
> rafters who died was a guide.   This particular word in reference to experience
> really doesn't have much meaning.  There are, of course, many guides who are
> expert, extremely competent boaters and others who just got the job last week
> and don't have much experience at all.  Many of the harder runs in the west are
> rarely run comercially and you are your own "Guide".  Rely on yourself and use
> your head.

 
 
 

'' Tragic Deaths Illinois River south Ore''

Post by mike fentres » Sun, 29 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> I totally agree with this. Most of the guides I know, are ski bums looking for a
> summer time job. However I know few of the actual people that employ these guides,
> and they are world class boatman: For instance Roger Lee of Wilderness
> Adventures,he has taken people down Golden Gate,<South Fork American> and were
> talking no portages,and no swimmers in a raft!! How many people do you know that
> can do that? How does one obtain the title of guide?As far as I know there's no
> test for it.What are the nesacary credentials? Maybe taking a few people through
> Satan's cesspool in the summertime?. Hence some so called ''guides'' just drive the
> shuttle van ,and some are world class boatman.


> > Re:  Guides.  I don't know where you are from but in the West there are many
> > private boaters who are much more experienced than "Guides".  One of the
> > rafters who died was a guide.   This particular word in reference to experience
> > really doesn't have much meaning.  There are, of course, many guides who are
> > expert, extremely competent boaters and others who just got the job last week
> > and don't have much experience at all.  Many of the harder runs in the west are
> > rarely run comercially and you are your own "Guide".  Rely on yourself and use
> > your head

Yeah. and he also jumped off 120 + foot Mooney Falls in Havasu creek on
the Grand Canyon several years back.....HILDE
 
 
 

'' Tragic Deaths Illinois River south Ore''

Post by Kevin Lew » Mon, 30 Mar 1998 04:00:00

On Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:39:27 -0800, mike fentress

Quote:

>Yeah. and he also jumped off 120 + foot Mooney Falls in Havasu creek on
>the Grand Canyon several years back.....HILDE

Now this shows a high level of common sense and judgment...
-Kevin
 
 
 

'' Tragic Deaths Illinois River south Ore''

Post by Bill Matli » Wed, 01 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Hey*** HEAD.  Keep your smart ass comments to your self.

I can tell you have never shown up to a put-in and realized that a person
you used to share good times with on the will never be there again.

Quote:

>On Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:39:27 -0800, mike fentress

>>Yeah. and he also jumped off 120 + foot Mooney Falls in Havasu creek on
>>the Grand Canyon several years back.....HILDE

>Now this shows a high level of common sense and judgment...
>-Kevin

 
 
 

'' Tragic Deaths Illinois River south Ore''

Post by Kevin Lew » Thu, 02 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Bill,
Perhaps you can explain why my comment about a guide jumping off a
120' waterfall has your panties in such a bunch?

For your information I have had several friends die on rivers, after
35 years on the river the numbers do tend to add up.  In all
likelihood I was on the river while you were being spoon fed creamed
carrots and pissing your diapers, so why don't you lighten up a bit?

If you want to discuss the events on the Illinois River that's fine
with me but at least try to be civil.

Kevin



Quote:
>Hey*** HEAD.  Keep your smart ass comments to your self.

>I can tell you have never shown up to a put-in and realized that a person
>you used to share good times with on the will never be there again.


>>On Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:39:27 -0800, mike fentress

>>>Yeah. and he also jumped off 120 + foot Mooney Falls in Havasu creek on
>>>the Grand Canyon several years back.....HILDE

>>Now this shows a high level of common sense and judgment...
>>-Kevin