I am looking for Feedback on 38'-42' Cruising Cutters

I am looking for Feedback on 38'-42' Cruising Cutters

Post by Phoeni » Fri, 31 Dec 1999 04:00:00


Hello, I am in the market for a 38' to 42' Cutter to be used for Cruising
the east coast and the Caribbean.  At the Annapolis Boat Show I saw some
great looking boats and developed a few of my favorites, but I also have a
few of concerns about each boat.  I would like to list my favorites along
with my comments and get feedback from anyone who is familiar with these
particular boat.  Also if you know of a boat that you would recommend I look
at I would be very interested.

I am thinking about the Cutter Rig hoping that it will be easier for sailing
shorthanded (2 to 3 crew members) and hopefully it allows for more
comfortable sailing over a greater range of wind conditions, of course this
is based upon my limited knowledge of cutters so I would be very interested
in hearing from anyone with extensive sailing on a cutter.

Boats we are interested in:

Island Packet 42' -  We loved the great layout, nice storage, and what
appears to be quality construction.  My concerns are about the IP's
reputation of being a pig that can't get out of it's own way.  Does anyone
have any knowledge of the IP's actual performance in the average wind
conditions (8 -15 knots), and how well she handle in a gale?  I am also
concerned about the keel not being lead.  They use concrete inside the
fiberglass keel, does anyone have any knowledge of specific problems
concerning the keel.  Any positive or negative comments you have concerning
the IP 42 or the IP line in general.

Tartan 41 - I liked the layout, and the look of quality through out the
boat.  I know they can be a great cruiser/racer for the beer can circuit,
but do they hold up will sailing to the Islands?  I have heard horror
stories about boats cored with balsa below the waterline, does anyone have
any knowledge of Tartan having problems with their core below the waterline?
From the placement of the mast, it looks like the Tartan isn't conducive for
a Cutter Rig does anyone have any first hand knowledge of sailing this boat
shorthanded?

Valiant 40 and 41 - I loved the quality, the canoe stern and from what I
hear a very easy helm.  My wife hated the space you loose with the canoe
stern and the fact that it didn't have an easy access from the dinghy.  She
also thought that the Robert Perry designs were too masculine.  Any feedback
from woman who have cruised onboard a Valiant or another Robert Perry design
would be appreciated.

Pacific Seacraft 40 -  What more can be said, a great boat that my wife
doesn't like the look.  ; )

As you can see my wife likes the spaciousness of the IP and the Tartan, I
prefer the seaworthiness of the Valiant and the PS.  I would love feedback
from anyone who has done some cruising in any of these boats.

--

Jim

 
 
 

I am looking for Feedback on 38'-42' Cruising Cutters

Post by wb » Fri, 31 Dec 1999 04:00:00

I would not be too concerned about the Island Packets use of the "masonry
job", there positive stability number is 140 degrees, which is excellent. A
friend of mine has a 37 and its a wonderful boat. The shortcomings of
reversing a long keel boat can now be corrected by using a folding variable
pitch prop, they all the rave now for long keel boats. Both the Island
Packet and Pacific crealock use a solid lay-up in the hull which in the long
term is more durable.  I would choose between these 2 boats, since they are
seaworthy designs. The Valiant i think is highly overrated, having a lower
stability figure of about 120 degrees. Bear in mind that as you load your
boat for cruising this figure can drop by 10 degrees. I would not sleep easy
sailing a boat with a 110 degrees of positive stability. Construction of the
valiant is by no means exceptional on par with most production boats like
the Beneteaus et al.  This boat down south has  infamous reputation as being
a boat that is easily rolled. Anecdotal evidence but something to pay notice
too.


Quote:
> Hello, I am in the market for a 38' to 42' Cutter to be used for Cruising
> the east coast and the Caribbean.  At the Annapolis Boat Show I saw some
> great looking boats and developed a few of my favorites, but I also have a
> few of concerns about each boat.  I would like to list my favorites along
> with my comments and get feedback from anyone who is familiar with these
> particular boat.  Also if you know of a boat that you would recommend I
look
> at I would be very interested.

> I am thinking about the Cutter Rig hoping that it will be easier for
sailing
> shorthanded (2 to 3 crew members) and hopefully it allows for more
> comfortable sailing over a greater range of wind conditions, of course
this
> is based upon my limited knowledge of cutters so I would be very
interested
> in hearing from anyone with extensive sailing on a cutter.

> Boats we are interested in:

> Island Packet 42' -  We loved the great layout, nice storage, and what
> appears to be quality construction.  My concerns are about the IP's
> reputation of being a pig that can't get out of it's own way.  Does anyone
> have any knowledge of the IP's actual performance in the average wind
> conditions (8 -15 knots), and how well she handle in a gale?  I am also
> concerned about the keel not being lead.  They use concrete inside the
> fiberglass keel, does anyone have any knowledge of specific problems
> concerning the keel.  Any positive or negative comments you have
concerning
> the IP 42 or the IP line in general.

> Tartan 41 - I liked the layout, and the look of quality through out the
> boat.  I know they can be a great cruiser/racer for the beer can circuit,
> but do they hold up will sailing to the Islands?  I have heard horror
> stories about boats cored with balsa below the waterline, does anyone have
> any knowledge of Tartan having problems with their core below the
waterline?
> From the placement of the mast, it looks like the Tartan isn't conducive
for
> a Cutter Rig does anyone have any first hand knowledge of sailing this
boat
> shorthanded?

> Valiant 40 and 41 - I loved the quality, the canoe stern and from what I
> hear a very easy helm.  My wife hated the space you loose with the canoe
> stern and the fact that it didn't have an easy access from the dinghy.
She
> also thought that the Robert Perry designs were too masculine.  Any
feedback
> from woman who have cruised onboard a Valiant or another Robert Perry
design
> would be appreciated.

> Pacific Seacraft 40 -  What more can be said, a great boat that my wife
> doesn't like the look.  ; )

> As you can see my wife likes the spaciousness of the IP and the Tartan, I
> prefer the seaworthiness of the Valiant and the PS.  I would love feedback
> from anyone who has done some cruising in any of these boats.

> --

> Jim


 
 
 

I am looking for Feedback on 38'-42' Cruising Cutters

Post by Phoeni » Fri, 31 Dec 1999 04:00:00

WB,

Thanks for the feedback.  Wasn't Valiant known as an exceptional bluewater
boat at one time?

--

Jim


Quote:
> I would not be too concerned about the Island Packets use of the "masonry
> job", there positive stability number is 140 degrees, which is excellent.
A
> friend of mine has a 37 and its a wonderful boat. The shortcomings of
> reversing a long keel boat can now be corrected by using a folding
variable
> pitch prop, they all the rave now for long keel boats. Both the Island
> Packet and Pacific crealock use a solid lay-up in the hull which in the
long
> term is more durable.  I would choose between these 2 boats, since they
are
> seaworthy designs. The Valiant i think is highly overrated, having a lower
> stability figure of about 120 degrees. Bear in mind that as you load your
> boat for cruising this figure can drop by 10 degrees. I would not sleep
easy
> sailing a boat with a 110 degrees of positive stability. Construction of
the
> valiant is by no means exceptional on par with most production boats like
> the Beneteaus et al.  This boat down south has  infamous reputation as
being
> a boat that is easily rolled. Anecdotal evidence but something to pay
notice
> too.



> > Hello, I am in the market for a 38' to 42' Cutter to be used for
Cruising
> > the east coast and the Caribbean.  At the Annapolis Boat Show I saw some
> > great looking boats and developed a few of my favorites, but I also have
a
> > few of concerns about each boat.  I would like to list my favorites
along
> > with my comments and get feedback from anyone who is familiar with these
> > particular boat.  Also if you know of a boat that you would recommend I
> look
> > at I would be very interested.

> > I am thinking about the Cutter Rig hoping that it will be easier for
> sailing
> > shorthanded (2 to 3 crew members) and hopefully it allows for more
> > comfortable sailing over a greater range of wind conditions, of course
> this
> > is based upon my limited knowledge of cutters so I would be very
> interested
> > in hearing from anyone with extensive sailing on a cutter.

> > Boats we are interested in:

> > Island Packet 42' -  We loved the great layout, nice storage, and what
> > appears to be quality construction.  My concerns are about the IP's
> > reputation of being a pig that can't get out of it's own way.  Does
anyone
> > have any knowledge of the IP's actual performance in the average wind
> > conditions (8 -15 knots), and how well she handle in a gale?  I am also
> > concerned about the keel not being lead.  They use concrete inside the
> > fiberglass keel, does anyone have any knowledge of specific problems
> > concerning the keel.  Any positive or negative comments you have
> concerning
> > the IP 42 or the IP line in general.

> > Tartan 41 - I liked the layout, and the look of quality through out the
> > boat.  I know they can be a great cruiser/racer for the beer can
circuit,
> > but do they hold up will sailing to the Islands?  I have heard horror
> > stories about boats cored with balsa below the waterline, does anyone
have
> > any knowledge of Tartan having problems with their core below the
> waterline?
> > From the placement of the mast, it looks like the Tartan isn't conducive
> for
> > a Cutter Rig does anyone have any first hand knowledge of sailing this
> boat
> > shorthanded?

> > Valiant 40 and 41 - I loved the quality, the canoe stern and from what I
> > hear a very easy helm.  My wife hated the space you loose with the canoe
> > stern and the fact that it didn't have an easy access from the dinghy.
> She
> > also thought that the Robert Perry designs were too masculine.  Any
> feedback
> > from woman who have cruised onboard a Valiant or another Robert Perry
> design
> > would be appreciated.

> > Pacific Seacraft 40 -  What more can be said, a great boat that my wife
> > doesn't like the look.  ; )

> > As you can see my wife likes the spaciousness of the IP and the Tartan,
I
> > prefer the seaworthiness of the Valiant and the PS.  I would love
feedback
> > from anyone who has done some cruising in any of these boats.

> > --

> > Jim


 
 
 

I am looking for Feedback on 38'-42' Cruising Cutters

Post by Jay Howel » Fri, 31 Dec 1999 04:00:00

The only comment I can offer is regarding the IP.  I visited their factory
this fall after the St. Pete boat show.  My recollection is that the keel is
filled(stacked) w/lead bars and then a concrete mix is poured over and
vibrated(to fill voids) to hold the bars in place.  I met the owner of a
35'IP a few years ago in W. FL who had sailed his boat to Mexico several
times and cruised S Fl extensively.  He felt the keel design was a great
advantage.  tracked straight (both directions), heaved to easily,etc.  He
thought that allthough the vessel was not a "performance cruiser" it was
certainly not a "sled".  Good luck in your search.  Jay
 
 
 

I am looking for Feedback on 38'-42' Cruising Cutters

Post by Jay Howel » Fri, 31 Dec 1999 04:00:00

wb:  where do you obtain the psn for these vessels?  I would like to know
the psn for my 91 Jeanneau SO 42.  Thanks, Jay
 
 
 

I am looking for Feedback on 38'-42' Cruising Cutters

Post by Douglas Kin » Fri, 31 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> I would not be too concerned about the Island Packets use of the "masonry
> job", there positive stability number is 140 degrees, which is excellent. A
> friend of mine has a 37 and its a wonderful boat. The shortcomings of
> reversing a long keel boat can now be corrected by using a folding variable
> pitch prop, they all the rave now for long keel boats. Both the Island
> Packet and Pacific crealock use a solid lay-up in the hull which in the long
> term is more durable.  I would choose between these 2 boats, since they are
> seaworthy designs. The Valiant i think is highly overrated, having a lower
> stability figure of about 120 degrees. Bear in mind that as you load your
> boat for cruising this figure can drop by 10 degrees. I would not sleep easy
> sailing a boat with a 110 degrees of positive stability. Construction of the
> valiant is by no means exceptional on par with most production boats like
> the Beneteaus et al.  This boat down south has  infamous reputation as being
> a boat that is easily rolled. Anecdotal evidence but something to pay notice
> too.

After a necessarily brief inspection of a new Island Packet at a boat
show, I am getting suspicious of their claims. None of the "works" of
the boat could be inspected without ripping out joinery. The access to
mechanical equipment was terrible. Most of the wiring and plumbing was
inaccessible, as was the entire hull/deck joint. The deck layout was
rather poor as a working platform, furthermore there was no windlass and
no place to install one. Lots of fancy joinerwork and gadgetry, though.

Considering the sailing characteristics (or lack thereof) of IPs I would
only recommend a new one to somebody who wanted a motorsailing marina
cruiser, an expensive one. The older ones seem a bit better. A high LPOS
is very nice, but it's not the only criteria. There are plenty of
good-sailing boats with a high LPOS.

As for the Valiant, it's funny that folks touted it as "super-seaworthy"
based on the vague resemblance above the waterline to a Colin Archer
cutter. It is a fin keel shallow-bodied boat just like most racers
condemned as inherently unseaworthy.

Quote:

> > Hello, I am in the market for a 38' to 42' Cutter to be used for Cruising
> > the east coast and the Caribbean.  At the Annapolis Boat Show I saw some
> > great looking boats and developed a few of my favorites, but I also have a
> > few of concerns about each boat.  I would like to list my favorites along
> > with my comments and get feedback from anyone who is familiar with these
> > particular boat:

> > Island Packet 42' -

> > Tartan 41 -

> > Valiant 40 and 41 -

> > Pacific Seacraft 40 -

Any of these boats would be fine for your stated purpose, although the
Tartan is a bit roomier and sails better. If you just want a boat that
looks like you are about to take off around Cape Horn, get the Valiant.
I'd suggest considering shallower draft- most of these boats will keep
you out of 90% of gunkholes south of Block Island.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King
--
This is what we look like when we're at our best:
http://recboats.hsh.com/45.htm

 
 
 

I am looking for Feedback on 38'-42' Cruising Cutters

Post by Douglas Kin » Fri, 31 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> Thanks for highlighting some critical points to consider, access to
> mechanical equipment (electrical and plumbing) are very important.  Did you
> ask any of the owners at the show how they handled the windlass?  I am sure
> many owners have figurered out how to install a windlass, but I will make
> sure I ask.

> You reemphasized the comments I have heard about IP sailing like a "pig",
> but have you actually sailed on one?

Yup.

More detailed answer emailed.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King
--
This is what we look like when we're at our best:
http://recboats.hsh.com/45.htm

 
 
 

I am looking for Feedback on 38'-42' Cruising Cutters

Post by Phoeni » Sat, 01 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Douglas,

Thanks for highlighting some critical points to consider, access to
mechanical equipment (electrical and plumbing) are very important.  Did you
ask any of the owners at the show how they handled the windlass?  I am sure
many owners have figurered out how to install a windlass, but I will make
sure I ask.

You reemphasized the comments I have heard about IP sailing like a "pig",
but have you actually sailed on one?

--

Jim


Quote:

> > I would not be too concerned about the Island Packets use of the
"masonry
> > job", there positive stability number is 140 degrees, which is
excellent. A
> > friend of mine has a 37 and its a wonderful boat. The shortcomings of
> > reversing a long keel boat can now be corrected by using a folding
variable
> > pitch prop, they all the rave now for long keel boats. Both the Island
> > Packet and Pacific crealock use a solid lay-up in the hull which in the
long
> > term is more durable.  I would choose between these 2 boats, since they
are
> > seaworthy designs. The Valiant i think is highly overrated, having a
lower
> > stability figure of about 120 degrees. Bear in mind that as you load
your
> > boat for cruising this figure can drop by 10 degrees. I would not sleep
easy
> > sailing a boat with a 110 degrees of positive stability. Construction of
the
> > valiant is by no means exceptional on par with most production boats
like
> > the Beneteaus et al.  This boat down south has  infamous reputation as
being
> > a boat that is easily rolled. Anecdotal evidence but something to pay
notice
> > too.

> After a necessarily brief inspection of a new Island Packet at a boat
> show, I am getting suspicious of their claims. None of the "works" of
> the boat could be inspected without ripping out joinery. The access to
> mechanical equipment was terrible. Most of the wiring and plumbing was
> inaccessible, as was the entire hull/deck joint. The deck layout was
> rather poor as a working platform, furthermore there was no windlass and
> no place to install one. Lots of fancy joinerwork and gadgetry, though.

> Considering the sailing characteristics (or lack thereof) of IPs I would
> only recommend a new one to somebody who wanted a motorsailing marina
> cruiser, an expensive one. The older ones seem a bit better. A high LPOS
> is very nice, but it's not the only criteria. There are plenty of
> good-sailing boats with a high LPOS.

> As for the Valiant, it's funny that folks touted it as "super-seaworthy"
> based on the vague resemblance above the waterline to a Colin Archer
> cutter. It is a fin keel shallow-bodied boat just like most racers
> condemned as inherently unseaworthy.


> > > Hello, I am in the market for a 38' to 42' Cutter to be used for
Cruising
> > > the east coast and the Caribbean.  At the Annapolis Boat Show I saw
some
> > > great looking boats and developed a few of my favorites, but I also
have a
> > > few of concerns about each boat.  I would like to list my favorites
along
> > > with my comments and get feedback from anyone who is familiar with
these
> > > particular boat:

> > > Island Packet 42' -

> > > Tartan 41 -

> > > Valiant 40 and 41 -

> > > Pacific Seacraft 40 -

> Any of these boats would be fine for your stated purpose, although the
> Tartan is a bit roomier and sails better. If you just want a boat that
> looks like you are about to take off around Cape Horn, get the Valiant.
> I'd suggest considering shallower draft- most of these boats will keep
> you out of 90% of gunkholes south of Block Island.

> Fresh Breezes- Doug King
> --
> This is what we look like when we're at our best:
> http://recboats.hsh.com/45.htm

 
 
 

I am looking for Feedback on 38'-42' Cruising Cutters

Post by wb » Sat, 01 Jan 2000 04:00:00

readily available from US Sail, they have the numbers for most boats that
have been measured for IMS. It should be the responsibilty of the
manufacturer to give you this information. But many are ducking for cover
these days when it comes to positive stability, mainly because there boats
are poor.


Quote:
> wb:  where do you obtain the psn for these vessels?  I would like to know
> the psn for my 91 Jeanneau SO 42.  Thanks, Jay