ASA FP - Need some help

ASA FP - Need some help

Post by Chester L. Buffal » Wed, 30 Apr 1997 04:00:00


HS Varsity FP game. I am doing the bases.

I have mentioned this before. I do most (90 - 95%) of my games alone.
Doing a game with 2 umpires is a luxury but the mechanics of doing the
bases takes me a little while to get into. The main concern is where I
should be when there is a runner only on 3rd and when the bases are
loaded. In both situations I stand between 2nd and 3rd and but closer to
3rd. Is this where you would be? If not why not?

During this game a batter bunted the ball and dropped the bat
immediately. Of course the ball and bat decided it was a good time to
meet a second time. My partner called fair ball. The defensive coach
thought it was an out. After the play completed we got together and
agreed we both saw the same thing namely there was no intent on the
batter's part to drop the bat so that it would interfere with ball (or
the catcher) and that the ball rolled into the bat. The coach did say
she wanted to protest but didn't. After the game I pulled out my rule
book and showed her 7.6.I but she insisted that since the ball was
bunted it should have been an out. We had never heard of this and
couldn't find it in the rule as it only refers to a batted ball. Did we
miss something?

Runner on 2nd. Grounder to 3rd base and is bobbled. Runner on 2nd goes
to 3rd. No play is made and ball is thrown back to pitcher. In the
meanwhile batter after reaching first continues on to 2nd with breaking
stride. I, expecting a play at 3rd, was not looking at the batter-runner
(shame on me YES!). My partner did see her round first and head to 2nd.
I don't know where she was when the pitcher got the ball back but it may
not matter. My partner ruled that since the pitcher had the ball and was
not making a play (true and the pitcher wasn't looking at the
batter-runner) the batter-runner had to return to 1st base. The
offensive coach of course disagreed. After the game he said he might be
wrong. I did not see all that happened but I could have clarified the
look-back rule for him and suggested that the runner be put back on
second. At the time he was very sure of his call so I didn't say
anything. Should I have said something?

I would appreciate any comments, suggestions you might have, positive or
negative.

"There are three kinds of people, those who can count and those who
can't"
--
Chester L. Buffalo
ASA / MIAA / LL Fast Pitch Umpire
Brockton, MA

 
 
 

ASA FP - Need some help

Post by confeder.. » Thu, 01 May 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> HS Varsity FP game. I am doing the bases.

> During this game a batter bunted the ball and dropped the bat
> immediately. Of course the ball and bat decided it was a good time to
> meet a second time. My partner called fair ball. The defensive coach
> thought it was an out.
> showed her 7.6.I but she insisted that since the ball was
> bunted it should have been an out.

  It has to be clear intent of the batter to interfere. Is a bunt not
batted?  
  Get real, coach..blue called it right!

Quote:
> Runner on 2nd. Grounder to 3rd base and is bobbled. Runner on 2nd goes
> to 3rd. No play is made and ball is thrown back to pitcher. In the
> meanwhile batter after reaching first continues on to 2nd with breaking
> stride. I, expecting a play at 3rd, was not looking at the batter-runner
> (shame on me YES!).

  Partner 'blue' this one! The pitcher having the ball in the circle
does not stop
  play. If the batter-runner CONTINUED without stopping to second, she
is entitled
  to stay there. If the batter-runner, or any other runner stops between
bases while
  the pitcher has the ball in the circle, then that runner is OUT! Or,
once stopped
  on a base while the pitcher has the ball in the circle, and the runner
leaves base
  that runner is OUT! Sounds like in this case, the batter-runner
continued without
  hesitation to second...should have been runners on second and
third....
  Partner should read the rules...you couldn't say a thing unless he
consults you.
  Sometimes an Ump must be quiet even though he knows better... :(

 
 
 

ASA FP - Need some help

Post by Jeff Johnso » Thu, 01 May 1997 04:00:00

The way I have always seen, here in Washington State, the bunted ball
hitting the bat for a second time is that it is an automatic out no matter
if it was intentional or not.

The second situation if the runner didn't stop she is allowed to procede to
second.  

 
 
 

ASA FP - Need some help

Post by Nelli » Fri, 02 May 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> The way I have always seen, here in Washington State, the bunted ball
> hitting the bat for a second time is that it is an automatic out no matter
> if it was intentional or not.

> The second situation if the runner didn't stop she is allowed to procede to
> second.

I play ASA in Wisconsin and I have seen a no-call if the ball
unintentionally hits the bat on the ground.  However, being a judgement
call, it is a tough call for umpires to make.  Either way there will
be arguments.
 
 
 

ASA FP - Need some help

Post by Ken Mille » Sat, 03 May 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> The way I have always seen, here in Washington State, the bunted ball
> hitting the bat for a second time is that it is an automatic out no matter
> if it was intentional or not.

  Sorry Jeff, but that's wrong, and if they do it that way in the
great Northwest, they need to crack that rulebook open a few more times!

The expectation of the rules is that the batter will drop the bat
(somewhere) and run to 1st.  They clearly state that if the bat
is dropped and the ball rolls against it, there is NO interference
and the ball is live and in play (unless, of course, it's a foul
ball).  The only case where we've got an out is if that ball is
HIT with the bat, which would require the bat to be dropped in such
a way that it hits the ball on its way to the ground. Quite different
from the ball rolling against the bat.

Ken Miller  MIAA/ASA FP ump
Rehoboth, MA

 
 
 

ASA FP - Need some help

Post by FASTPITC » Mon, 05 May 1997 04:00:00

Quote:


> > The way I have always seen, here in Washington State, the bunted ball
> > hitting the bat for a second time is that it is an automatic out no matter
> > if it was intentional or not.

>   Sorry Jeff, but that's wrong, and if they do it that way in the
> great Northwest, they need to crack that rulebook open a few more times!

> The expectation of the rules is that the batter will drop the bat
> (somewhere) and run to 1st.  They clearly state that if the bat
> is dropped and the ball rolls against it, there is NO interference
> and the ball is live and in play (unless, of course, it's a foul
> ball).  The only case where we've got an out is if that ball is
> HIT with the bat, which would require the bat to be dropped in such
> a way that it hits the ball on its way to the ground. Quite different
> from the ball rolling against the bat.

> Ken Miller  MIAA/ASA FP ump
> Rehoboth, MA

Ken,

Jeff is ALMOST right in what he is saying about the ball/bat contact
after a bunt. While coaching in the NW, I've seen (rarely) umps call a
batter out for a dropped bat rolling into a ball on the ground, but the
distinction being made is one of which object rolled into the other.  Did
the bat roll into the ball, or did the ball roll into the bat?

I'm with you on this one, though.  I feel the intent of the rule is to
negate the "double hit" as you discribed.

George Regula
18U NH Granettes