Three Rules Questions!

Three Rules Questions!

Post by Julian Dermou » Wed, 13 Sep 1995 04:00:00


G'day fencers everywhere,

I've checked my 1994 rules (and the 1993-1994 appendix) and cannot find what
I had thought had been changed (again).

With all these recent little rule changes, I can't recall what is the current
state of play.  Can you gurus help me out with three simple black-and-white
questions?  Thanks.

1. In sabre, is a simulataneous attack currently the same as foil or epee?
   (I know it used to be foil, then was changed to epee (as it says in my book),
   but I thought it had been changed again...)

2. My recollection is that in a pool bout if regulation time expires and scores
   are tied the score is set to 5-each.  Then a coin is tossed and the fencers
   are given one additional minute to get that winning touch.  At the end of
   the bout (either through time or the touch) the score is recorded as V5 and
   D5.  However, my rule book says that the coin toss occurs prior to the bout
   and thus the extra minute (i.e. the fifth minute) is not employed.  Hasn't
   this been changed again?

3. In sabre a fleche is penalised as a Group One offense.  (In fact it is the
   rear leg crossing the front that is penalised.)
   (a) is the hit, if there was one, annulled? (I think it is); and
   (b) is it the same in foil, or are fleches still allowed?

Thanks very much.

- Julian
(Tas Uni Fencing Club, http://info.utas.edu.au/docs/fencing/ )

--

Department of Computer Science,       'Phone: +61 02 202933
University of Tasmania,               Fax   : +61 02 202913
              GPO Box 252C Hobart, Tasmania, AUSTRALIA, 7001.

 
 
 

Three Rules Questions!

Post by David Sape » Wed, 13 Sep 1995 04:00:00

George K. is probably going to kill me for doing this without quoting the
actual rules, but since I don't have an updated rule book either, I'm
going to do the best I can.

: 1. In sabre, is a simulataneous attack currently the same as foil or epee?
:    (I know it used to be foil, then was changed to epee (as it says in my book),
:    but I thought it had been changed again...)

Simultaneous attacks in sabre are annulled.

: 2. My recollection is that in a pool bout if regulation time expires and scores
:    are tied the score is set to 5-each.  Then a coin is tossed and the fencers
:    are given one additional minute to get that winning touch.  At the end of
:    the bout (either through time or the touch) the score is recorded as V5 and
:    D5.  However, my rule book says that the coin toss occurs prior to the bout
:    and thus the extra minute (i.e. the fifth minute) is not employed.  Hasn't
:    this been changed again?

Your recollection is almost correct.  Everything except for the final score
if a touch is scored during the overtime.

The coin toss prior to the start of the bout was used for 1 season.  The
current "coin flip" procedure is you flip a coin after 4 minutes followed by
one minute of sudden death overtime.  If the score remains tied after the
overtime, the final score is V5/D5.  If a touch is scored during the
overtime, the final score is V5/D4.

: 3. In sabre a fleche is penalised as a Group One offense.  (In fact it is the
:    rear leg crossing the front that is penalised.)
:    (a) is the hit, if there was one, annulled? (I think it is); and
:    (b) is it the same in foil, or are fleches still allowed?

I'm not a good sabre referee, so rather than possibly give the wrong answer,
I'll leave this one for a more experienced response.

--------------------
David Sapery
USFA Information Systems Coordinator


 
 
 

Three Rules Questions!

Post by Mark C. Ort » Wed, 13 Sep 1995 04:00:00

: George K. is probably going to kill me for doing this without quoting the
: actual rules, but since I don't have an updated rule book either, I'm
: going to do the best I can.


...
: : 3. In sabre a fleche is penalised as a Group One offense.  (In fact it is the
: :    rear leg crossing the front that is penalised.)

And only in a forward motion.  You can cross your feet all you like
as long as you're going backwards.

: :    (a) is the hit, if there was one, annulled? (I think it is); and
: :    (b) is it the same in foil, or are fleches still allowed?

: I'm not a good sabre referee, so rather than possibly give the wrong answer,
: I'll leave this one for a more experienced response.

A hit made by the offending fencer is annulled.  However, a hit made
at the same time by his (or her) opponent is allowed, even if it's a
counterattack.  I don't think this makes sense, but that's what the
FIE has decreed.

The crossover/fleche ban applies only to sabre; not to foil or epee.

--
      Mark C. Orton
      employed by (but not speaking for)
      Pulse Communications, Inc.

 
 
 

Three Rules Questions!

Post by AMullhau » Fri, 15 Sep 1995 04:00:00

That's a good point.  A lot of people call it the "no fleche" rule, but it
restricts more than just a fleche... you can't walk forward, run forward ,
passe avance, etc...  I think the actual rule (and I don't have it right
here either), says that the rear foot may not cross in front of the front
foot.
<<

My understanding is that _any_ crossing of the feet in forward motion
is forbidden in sabre. This includes the case where you start a crossover
retreat and then change your mind, in other words, you cannot simply bring
the front foot back in place having brought it behind what was initially
the rear foot, since this involves crossing of the feet while moving
forward.

Later,
Andrew P. Mullhaupt