Results: Atlanta World Cup Women's Foil

Results: Atlanta World Cup Women's Foil

Post by Mchu » Thu, 09 May 1996 04:00:00


     Women's Foil World Cup
     ATLANTA, May 2-3 1996

                    A T H O S
               The Fencing Software...

     _______________ TABLEAU _______________

     Final                           HS

      1 V.VEZZALI      Italy         15
      2 A.FICHTEL-MAUR Germany       11

     Third place                    

      3 F.BORTOLOZZI   Italy      
      3 G.TRILLINI     Italy        

     Round of 8                      Seed

      5 L.BADEA        Roumania       03
      6 D.BIANCHEDI    Italy          04
      7 Z.JANOSI       Hungary        08
      8 S.BAU          Germany        10

     Round of 16                     Seed

      9 M.WEBER        Germany        07
     10 L.MODAINE      France         11
     11 R.SZABO        Roumania       13
     12 G.LANTOS       Hungary        15
     13 S.BOIKO        Russia         16
     14 A.MOHAMED      Hungary        19
     15 G.SCHINAEL     Germany        22
     16 B.VILINACHVILI Russia         41

     Round of 32                     Seed

     17 A.MARSH        U.S.A.         09
     18 A.XIAO         China          12
     19 L.HATOEL CZUCK Israel         14
     20 O.CHARKOVA     Russia         18
     21 F.MCINTOSH     Gr. Britain    20
     22 A.WUILLEME     France         21
     23 I.ANGAD-GAUR   Holland        23
     24 F.ZIMMERMANN   U.S.A.         25
     25 A.OHAYON       Israel         27
     26 A.GIACOMETTI   Italy          28
     27 H.WANG         China          30
     28 E.IBRAHIM      France         31
     29 J.LIANG        China          33
     30 R.SCARLAT      Roumania       36
     31 C.VANTA-GRIGOR Roumania       39
     32 J.POSTHUMUS    U.S.A.         48

     Round of 64                     Seed

     33 O.VELITCHKO    Russia         17
     34 M.PAXTON       U.S.A.         24
     35 L.STRACHAN     Gr. Britain    26
     36 C.MAGNAN       France         29
     37 O.CHERNYAK     U.S.A.         32
     38 I.ZIMMERMANN   U.S.A.         34
     39 F.DARCHINACOURT  France       35
     40 M.HERVIEU      Canada         37
     41 L.PARISKY      Israel         38
     42 I.SLAVUTSKYA   Israel         40
     43 M.DE BRUIN     U.S.A.         42
     44 J.GROSS        France         43
     45 M.TAKAGI       U.S.A.         44
     46 E.KALKINA      Kazakhstan     45
     47 J.SIKES        U.S.A.         46
     48 I.LAMOUR       France         47
     49 C.SEIGNEUR     France         49
     50 J.HALL         U.S.A.         50
     51 D.BJONERUD     U.S.A.         51
     52 A.AMENT        U.S.A.         52
     53 T.THORNE       U.S.A.         53
     54 S.WALSH        U.S.A.         54
     55 M.KROLL        Canada         55
     56 L.SURDU        Canada         56
     57 M.DA SILVA     U.S.A.         57
     58 J.PROKOP       U.S.A.         58
     59 J.TRABERT      Canada         59

     _________ PRELIMINARY ROUNDS __________

     Round         1               V/M  S-R HR

     60 Y.LIM          Singapore   0,16 -16 28
     61 M.ROSTAL       U.S.A.      0,16 -16 29
     62 J.MAHUNGARYEY  Canada      0,16 -17 27
     62 M.REYES        Philippines 0,16 -17 27
     64 E.SACHS        U.S.A.      0,16 -17 28
     65 D.MOORE        U.S.A.      0,16 -19 28
     66 R.BOYER        U.S.A.      0,16 -19 29
     67 E.EGGLESTON    U.S.A.      0,16 -21 29
     68 J.SMITH        U.S.A.      0,00 -19 25
     69 D.KOTLAN       U.S.A.      0,00 -21 30
     70 L.MASTERS      U.S.A.      0,00 -29 30

 
 
 

Results: Atlanta World Cup Women's Foil

Post by Ored » Thu, 09 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>      Women's Foil World Cup
>      ATLANTA, May 2-3 1996

>                     A T H O S
>                The Fencing Software...

[snip]

Quote:
>      _________ PRELIMINARY ROUNDS __________

>      Round         1               V/M  S-R HR

>      60 Y.LIM          Singapore   0,16 -16 28
>      61 M.ROSTAL       U.S.A.      0,16 -16 29
>      62 J.MAHUNGARYEY  Canada      0,16 -17 27
>      62 M.REYES        Philippines 0,16 -17 27
>      64 E.SACHS        U.S.A.      0,16 -17 28
>      65 D.MOORE        U.S.A.      0,16 -19 28
>      66 R.BOYER        U.S.A.      0,16 -19 29
>      67 E.EGGLESTON    U.S.A.      0,16 -21 29
>      68 J.SMITH        U.S.A.      0,00 -19 25
>      69 D.KOTLAN       U.S.A.      0,00 -21 30
>      70 L.MASTERS      U.S.A.      0,00 -29 30                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^

Can someone tell me what these stats mean?

Thanks.

 
 
 

Results: Atlanta World Cup Women's Foil

Post by Peter Gustafss » Thu, 09 May 1996 04:00:00

Hi!



Quote:


>> >      Women's Foil World Cup
>> [snip]
>> >      _________ PRELIMINARY ROUNDS __________

>> >      Round         1               V/M  S-R HR

>> >      60 Y.LIM          Singapore   0,16 -16 28
>> >      61 M.ROSTAL       U.S.A.      0,16 -16 29
>> >      62 J.MAHUNGARYEY  Canada      0,16 -17 27
>> >      62 M.REYES        Philippines 0,16 -17 27
>> >      64 E.SACHS        U.S.A.      0,16 -17 28
>> >      65 D.MOORE        U.S.A.      0,16 -19 28
>> >      66 R.BOYER        U.S.A.      0,16 -19 29
>> >      67 E.EGGLESTON    U.S.A.      0,16 -21 29
>> >      68 J.SMITH        U.S.A.      0,00 -19 25
>> >      69 D.KOTLAN       U.S.A.      0,00 -21 30
>> >      70 L.MASTERS      U.S.A.      0,00 -29 30                    
             ^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Can someone tell me what these stats mean?

>> Thanks.

>0,16 means a victory ratio of 1/6.  1 victory out of 6 bouts. 16%.

>the negative number is the hits they scored minus the
>hits they recieved.   And the last number is the
>total hits they recieved in that round.

>hope this helps,

>gary hayenga

So, the stats say that L. Masters competed in 6 bouts, lost one of them 1-5,
and the rest 0-5.

Considering that this is an *World Cup* competition, is there no minimum
success limit on who can compete, or can every woman foilist who is a member
of USFA enter the competition? There is a risk in letting competitions being
open - the time necessary will expand, while the number of interesting bouts
increases only slightly, if at all. A competition where lots of the bouts in
the beginning go 5-0 or 5-1 does not provide much of a TV spectacle,
especially if the losers are Americans.

I hope that I dont sound snotty when I am concerned. :-(

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

 
 
 

Results: Atlanta World Cup Women's Foil

Post by Mchu » Fri, 10 May 1996 04:00:00

8 May 96

The column headers in the ATHOS results are:

V/M = victories/matches (should actually be V/B for Bouts), meaning the
victory percentage for that pool.  If one has 2 victories in a pool of 7
(and thus M =  6 bouts), the V/M for that fencer is .333.

S-R = Hits Scored - Hits Received = Indicators

HR = Hits Received

See Article 517 in the Rules Book for an explanation on how these are used
to promote or qualify fencers to subsequent rounds of a tournament.

Melanie Chun

 
 
 

Results: Atlanta World Cup Women's Foil

Post by gary hayeng » Fri, 10 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


> >      Women's Foil World Cup
> >      ATLANTA, May 2-3 1996

> >                     A T H O S
> >                The Fencing Software...

> [snip]

> >      _________ PRELIMINARY ROUNDS __________

> >      Round         1               V/M  S-R HR

> >      60 Y.LIM          Singapore   0,16 -16 28
> >      61 M.ROSTAL       U.S.A.      0,16 -16 29
> >      62 J.MAHUNGARYEY  Canada      0,16 -17 27
> >      62 M.REYES        Philippines 0,16 -17 27
> >      64 E.SACHS        U.S.A.      0,16 -17 28
> >      65 D.MOORE        U.S.A.      0,16 -19 28
> >      66 R.BOYER        U.S.A.      0,16 -19 29
> >      67 E.EGGLESTON    U.S.A.      0,16 -21 29
> >      68 J.SMITH        U.S.A.      0,00 -19 25
> >      69 D.KOTLAN       U.S.A.      0,00 -21 30
> >      70 L.MASTERS      U.S.A.      0,00 -29 30                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^
> Can someone tell me what these stats mean?

> Thanks.

0,16 means a victory ratio of 1/6.  1 victory out of 6 bouts. 16%.

the negative number is the hits they scored minus the
hits they recieved.   And the last number is the
total hits they recieved in that round.

hope this helps,

gary hayenga

 
 
 

Results: Atlanta World Cup Women's Foil

Post by gary hayeng » Fri, 10 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


> >      Women's Foil World Cup
> >      ATLANTA, May 2-3 1996

> >                     A T H O S
> >                The Fencing Software...

> [snip]

> >      _________ PRELIMINARY ROUNDS __________

> >      Round         1               V/M  S-R HR

> >      60 Y.LIM          Singapore   0,16 -16 28
> >      61 M.ROSTAL       U.S.A.      0,16 -16 29
> >      62 J.MAHUNGARYEY  Canada      0,16 -17 27
> >      62 M.REYES        Philippines 0,16 -17 27
> >      64 E.SACHS        U.S.A.      0,16 -17 28
> >      65 D.MOORE        U.S.A.      0,16 -19 28
> >      66 R.BOYER        U.S.A.      0,16 -19 29
> >      67 E.EGGLESTON    U.S.A.      0,16 -21 29
> >      68 J.SMITH        U.S.A.      0,00 -19 25
> >      69 D.KOTLAN       U.S.A.      0,00 -21 30
> >      70 L.MASTERS      U.S.A.      0,00 -29 30                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^
> Can someone tell me what these stats mean?

> Thanks.

0,16 means a victory ratio of 1/6.  1 victory out of 6 bouts. 16%.

the negative number is the hits they scored minus the
hits they recieved.   And the last number is the
total hits they recieved in that round.

hope this helps,

gary hayenga

 
 
 

Results: Atlanta World Cup Women's Foil

Post by AMcBa » Fri, 10 May 1996 04:00:00


writes:

Quote:

>>      Women's Foil World Cup
>>      ATLANTA, May 2-3 1996

>>                     A T H O S
>>                The Fencing Software...

>[snip]

>>      _________ PRELIMINARY ROUNDS __________

>>      Round         1               V/M  S-R HR

>>      60 Y.LIM          Singapore   0,16 -16 28
>>      61 M.ROSTAL       U.S.A.      0,16 -16 29
>>      62 J.MAHUNGARYEY  Canada      0,16 -17 27
>>      62 M.REYES        Philippines 0,16 -17 27
>>      64 E.SACHS        U.S.A.      0,16 -17 28
>>      65 D.MOORE        U.S.A.      0,16 -19 28
>>      66 R.BOYER        U.S.A.      0,16 -19 29
>>      67 E.EGGLESTON    U.S.A.      0,16 -21 29
>>      68 J.SMITH        U.S.A.      0,00 -19 25
>>      69 D.KOTLAN       U.S.A.      0,00 -21 30
>>      70 L.MASTERS      U.S.A.      0,00 -29 30        
             ^^^^^^^^^^^
>Can someone tell me what these stats mean?

>Thanks.

V/M is the "bout indicator" -- number of victories divided by number of
bouts (a bout in French is a "match", hence V/M instead of V/B)
S-R is touches scored minus touches received
HR is number of touches scored

These are the three indicators used (in decreasing precedence) to separate
fencers based on results (and thereby determine who is promoted to the
next round and who gets to hit the showers).

So, the fencer with the highest _percentage_ of victories (not necessarily
the highest number of victories -- it also depends on the number of bouts
fenced) is ranked first.

If there are two or more fencers with the same percentage of victories,
the touch differential is considered. The fencer with the greatest
difference between touches scored and touches recieved is ranked highest
within a group having the same percentage of victories (clearly, scoring
30 touches and getting hit once (+29) is better than scoring 30 touches
and getting hit 28 times (+2)).

If there are two or more fencers who have _both_ the same percentage of
victories and the same touch differential, the fencer who has been touched
fewer times is seeded higher. The "rightness" of this rule can be argued
(why not reward the fencer who has scored more touches?), but that's the
way it is. So if two fencers both have a bout indicator of .75 and a touch
indicator of +10, but one was hit 5 times and the other was hit 9 times,
the fencer with 5 touches received is ranked higher.

If two (or more) fencers are exactly tied on all three indicators, they
are considered as having exactly tied. Depending on the situation, they
either remain tied, are separated by a random designation, or fence a
barrage.

Now, aren't you glad you asked?

This is all spelled out, BTW, in stultifying detail in Part V of the
Rules.

Ann McBain Ezzell
USFA National Secretary (the elected kind, but not for very much longer)


 
 
 

Results: Atlanta World Cup Women's Foil

Post by Marc Wal » Fri, 10 May 1996 04:00:00


[snip]

Quote:
>>      _________ PRELIMINARY ROUNDS __________

>>      Round         1               V/M  S-R HR

>>      60 Y.LIM          Singapore   0,16 -16 28
>>      61 M.ROSTAL       U.S.A.      0,16 -16 29
>>      62 J.MAHUNGARYEY  Canada      0,16 -17 27
>>      62 M.REYES        Philippines 0,16 -17 27
>>      64 E.SACHS        U.S.A.      0,16 -17 28
>>      65 D.MOORE        U.S.A.      0,16 -19 28
>>      66 R.BOYER        U.S.A.      0,16 -19 29
>>      67 E.EGGLESTON    U.S.A.      0,16 -21 29
>>      68 J.SMITH        U.S.A.      0,00 -19 25
>>      69 D.KOTLAN       U.S.A.      0,00 -21 30
>>      70 L.MASTERS      U.S.A.      0,00 -29 30                            
        ^^^^^^^^^^^
>Can someone tell me what these stats mean?

>Thanks.

Sure: each column goes as follows:

o  Rank
o  Name (F. Last)
o  Country
o  V/M = Victories/Matches
o  S-R = Hits Scored - Hits Received (the Indicator)
o  HR = Hits Received (helps breaking ties for equal indicators)

Example: 0,16 means 1 victory in 6 matches (truncated results). The comma is
here because Athos originates in Europe where the comma represents the decimal
separator.

Hope this helps.

Marc Walch

 
 
 

Results: Atlanta World Cup Women's Foil

Post by Jessie Mical » Fri, 10 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:
>Considering that this is an *World Cup* competition, is there no minimum
>success limit on who can compete, or can every woman foilist who is a member
>of USFA enter the competition? There is a risk in letting competitions being
>open - the time necessary will expand, while the number of interesting bouts
>increases only slightly, if at all. A competition where lots of the bouts in
>the beginning go 5-0 or 5-1 does not provide much of a TV spectacle,
>especially if the losers are Americans.

>I hope that I dont sound snotty when I am concerned. :-(

>Have a nice time!

>Peter Gustafsson

Hi Peter!  Well, for one thing, there is quite a hefty entry fee which I'm sure
would weed out many folks.  This is practically free money for the organizers
and would offset some of the expenses of the tournament.  I don't really see
anything wrong with the open concept.  The weak fencers will be weeded out in
the first pool and won't even be promoted in the top 80%. It would be an
excellent chance to see what it's like to fence with top notch fencers. Perhaps
it will teach humility to some fencers who are big fish in small ponds!  Plus,
getting even a single point on a world champion would be quite an experience,
especially if it's an elegant point!

The preliminary round won't show up on TV; in fact, in the US, NONE of it would
show up on TV, so I don't think this is a real concern.

Cheers!   Jessie

 
 
 

Results: Atlanta World Cup Women's Foil

Post by Mchu » Fri, 10 May 1996 04:00:00

9 May 96

Quote:
Peter Gustafsson writes:

***************************************
So, the stats say that L. Masters competed in 6 bouts, lost one of them
1-5,
and the rest 0-5.

Considering that this is an *World Cup* competition, is there no minimum
success limit on who can compete, or can every woman foilist who is a
member
of USFA enter the competition? There is a risk in letting competitions
being
open - the time necessary will expand, while the number of interesting
bouts
increases only slightly, if at all. A competition where lots of the bouts
in
the beginning go 5-0 or 5-1 does not provide much of a TV spectacle,
especially if the losers are Americans.

I hope that I dont sound snotty when I am concerned. :-(

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson
******************************

I understand your concerns.  As the host country, I believe that the US
can send an unlimited number of athletes to the Atlanta World Cup foil and
the Kansas City World Cup sabre.  If you recall the post of KC sabre
results in March there were also a *LOT* of Americans who did not qualify
out of the pool.  To the US media and general public this does look bad.
However, for the Americans who may never get to a European World Cup this
is an important experience: They may never be true world cup talent but
this event gives them experience to be better on the US scene.  

What is of greater concern to me is not the proportion of Americans at the
bottom of the results, but the lack of Americans at the top of the
results.  US women's foilists have been fencing very well these past few
seasons, and it was a disappointment that none made the top 16.  

Yet, for those who watch foil closely it was good to see Melanie Takagi
(45th) and Mindy Rostal (61st) get some international competitive
experience.  They are 15- or 16-years old, and hopefully learned things in
the Atlanta event that will help make them better fencers.  Mindy could
have chosen to fence in the Midwest Sectional Championships that weekend
and won an award in likely both the open and U19 categories.  Yet (as she
is an automatic qualifier to Nationals based on her US results this
season) she chose to fence the World Cup.  Placing 61st out of 70th will
not impress the local newspapers, but I think she knows that this
experience (competing with and watching top level fencers) will mean more
to her fencing than winning a US sectional event.

I don't know if the hosts of other World Cup competitions restrict the
number of local competitors.  The KS sabre event had 116; this Atlanta
event only 70.  With the pre-tableau format currently used for world cups,
they are not difficult events to manage.  Perhaps someone in Europe can
report on the typical sizes of some of the European world cups.  Peter:
How large was the Goteborg Women's Epee this year?

Back to media and publicity: At the KC World Cup the local organizers did
a fabulous job of promoting fencing.  Teams from around the world were
invited to KC for a 2-week training session prior to the world cup.  The
Russians, Roumanians and others accepted, and were housed at the homes of
local fencers.  During this period, these fencers also participated in
demonstrations at local schools along with KC sabreurs.  What a great way
to introduce kids to fencing: by having them watch a demonstration with
Olympic-class fencers like Kirienko and Podzniakov, not to mention local
talent like Terrence Lasker.  There was also quite a lot of newspaper
coverage.  There was a crowd of 600-800 at the final.  (George Goellner,
one of the local organizers, told me that 600 chairs had been set up;
there were people sitting on the floor, in the aisles and the room was
overflowing with spectators).  A brief demonstration was done for this
audience prior to the semi-finals in order to introduce the uninitiated to
the basic rules of the game.  Prior to the final, there was a
demonstration of wheelchair fencing. Commentary for the final bouts was
provided by David Mandell.  Thus, even though no Americans medalled in KC,
the event generated good publicity for US fencing in general and the KC
program in particular.

Can anyone report on the amount and quality of publicity that was
generated at last weekend's Atlanta World Cup?

Melanie Chun

PS: Peter, anyone who reads rsf regularly knows that you are not one to
make snotty remarks.

PPS: I enjoyed your "Fencing in China" report.

 
 
 

Results: Atlanta World Cup Women's Foil

Post by Griz » Sat, 11 May 1996 04:00:00

I missed the report. Can I get a copy?

 
 
 

Results: Atlanta World Cup Women's Foil

Post by David Saper » Sat, 11 May 1996 04:00:00

I know that the USFA allows any USFA member to compete in either of the US
hosted world cups (sabre in Kansas City & wf in Atlanta).  I believe that
the Canadian Fencing Federation allows the USFA to submit unlimited entries
to their world cup event (me in Montreal).  I don't know if there are FIE
imposed limits on events.  I do know that a country's governing body is
responsible for providing referees based on the number of entries, so the
USFA, for one, limits the number of entries for foreign world cups, and
there is a procedure for determining the preference if more applications are
submitted than there are spaces available.

In any case, with specific regards to Lara... I have known her for several
years and I was surprised at her finish.
--
David Sapery


 
 
 

Results: Atlanta World Cup Women's Foil

Post by Deborah Bjoneru » Sat, 11 May 1996 04:00:00

Peter:

This particular World Cup event was open only to members of the
USFA because they are the host country.  I believe this is done
for all World Cup events, that is, the host country is allowed an
open application to its own fencers.  Normally, we lowly US
fencers who are not on the national team are not allowed to fence
in "A" events on the international level... so worry not that we
lower echelon US fencers will dilute world cup events
unnecessarily.

The World Cup experience was an excellent opportunity for those
of us who are not on the national team to experience
international competition in person.  I am surprised more US
fencers were not in Atlanta to take advantage of the experience.
I found it personally invigorating and inspiring to be given the
opportunity to fence against the best in the world and then to
watch them, since television coverage is so minimal with regard
to Olympic fencing.

When have you ever seen a preliminary round of international
fencing on US television?  Is this a serious concern? and how
does this override the benefits of allowing us the opportunity to
compete against world class competitors.  Just my thoughts ....
Deborah Bjonerud, US competitor at Atlanta