Lexan Masks

Lexan Masks

Post by Chris Muenz » Sat, 24 Feb 1996 04:00:00


I was at the JO's this year and saw the new laxan maskes made by Zivkovic
(sp?). They are hidious. One of them is *NEON GREEN*. The other thing that
bothers me is the fact that they are FIE masks, yet you can replace the
lexan face plate yourself. The one question is, what happen to the rule
about pastel colors. Last time I checked, neon green was not a pastel
color. Is there anything you can do if one of your opponets is wearing one
of these mask and it's distracting you?

Chris Muenzer

 
 
 

Lexan Masks

Post by Craig Harki » Sun, 25 Feb 1996 04:00:00

My problem with these masks is that when you try one
one you notice there is a significant blind spot
below your eyes.  If I fence someone wearing one of
the masks I'll probably feint or attack lowline where
they can't see to get a big reaction parry or an easy
hit.  (Or I'll just hit the mask a few times to scuff it
up!)

Craig



Quote:

>I was at the JO's this year and saw the new laxan maskes made by
Zivkovic
>(sp?). They are hidious. One of them is *NEON GREEN*. The other thing
that
>bothers me is the fact that they are FIE masks, yet you can replace the
>lexan face plate yourself. The one question is, what happen to the rule
>about pastel colors. Last time I checked, neon green was not a pastel
>color. Is there anything you can do if one of your opponets is wearing
one
>of these mask and it's distracting you?

>Chris Muenzer



 
 
 

Lexan Masks

Post by Jeff Coo » Tue, 27 Feb 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> I fenced a guy at the Daytona Duel who had a lexan mask.  I found that it

was a big advantage for me.  I could see his eyes, which told me
everything he was going to do.  I'll never have one.

 
 
 

Lexan Masks

Post by L dale Walt » Thu, 29 Feb 1996 04:00:00

I bought one of the Zikovick lexan masks at the JO's.  The really hideous
one that looks like a red-white-blue star.   I wasn't sure if it was a
good thing or not, but I figured what the Hell, and jumped in the pond.  
I used it last Friday while teaching.

You couldn't get it away from me with a team of horses.  It is super
comfortable, and the range of vision is incredible.  As a fellow
instructor commented after trying it "I never thought the mask obscured
my vision before.  Now I am aware how much it actually does."

About the "able to see their eyes" comment.  You can look at my eyes all
day, and all you will ever see is that they are looking right at your
hand.  If you take your eyes off my weapon hand to look "at my eyes", you
are in a world of hurt.

Just waiting now for a conductive Sabre version...

L. Dale Walter

 
 
 

Lexan Masks

Post by L dale Walt » Fri, 01 Mar 1996 04:00:00

Can I ask a silly, but obvious, question;  Why are all of you looking at
your opponents eyes?  This isn't boxing.  What are you looking for?  
Admittedly, lower level fencers might be tempted to look at their target
before attacking (such as looking to the head before launching a head
cut) but better fencers KNOW where their target is.  If I know where your
weapon hand is, I know where your head is.

Possibly I can see Epee fencers doing this before a toe touch, but I
doubt at higher levels this is happening either (not a Epee fencer, so I
can't say for certain).

All you are ever going to see in my eyes is concentration and
determination, and I think that works better for me if you do see my eyes.
.

L. Dale Walter

 
 
 

Lexan Masks

Post by Pit Fie » Fri, 01 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


>> About the "able to see their eyes" comment.  You can look at my eyes all
>> day, and all you will ever see is that they are looking right at your
>> hand.  If you take your eyes off my weapon hand to look "at my eyes", you
>> are in a world of hurt.

>> L. Dale Walter

>Why, you can't see our eyes through a normal mask so how will you know if
>we are looking at your hand or not?  I don't know about you but I often look
>elsewhere from the weapon hand, it's no good knowing what the hand is
>doing if his legs are winding up for a fleche and you don't pick it up
>untill it's too late!

>     Orde            

Yah, but you can see all this while looking at your opponents weapon,
as long as you don't focus exclusivly on the weapon. I agree with Dale,
if you take the time to focus on my eyes, I may not notice, but if I
happen to do anything while you're looking at my eyes, I think it's
definitly to my advantage.

-Jasper

--
              /\  Jasper Phillips (Pit Fiend)  ______,....----,
/VVVVVVVVVVVVVV|===================""""""""""""       ___,..-'
`^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|======================----------""""""        
              \/  http://www.cs.orst.edu/~philljas/

 
 
 

Lexan Masks

Post by PnguinTr » Thu, 07 Mar 1996 04:00:00

On a humorous note regarding Lexan masks...

What about ventilation?

What if you sneeze?

:)

Barb

 
 
 

Lexan Masks

Post by L dale Walt » Fri, 08 Mar 1996 04:00:00

Quote:
>On a humorous note regarding Lexan masks...

>What about ventilation?

>What if you sneeze?

>:)

>Barb

Actually, that was a concern of mine, fogging, not sneezing.  I sprayed
mine with JT Magic anti fog (I use it for my Paintball goggles) and have
had no problems.

Sneezing should always be focused down, in any mask.  Unles you can use
it as the venerable "Sneeze Feint"...

LDW

 
 
 

Lexan Masks

Post by daniel b » Sun, 10 Mar 1996 04:00:00


: Can I ask a silly, but obvious, question;  Why are all of you looking at
: your opponents eyes?  This isn't boxing.  What are you looking for?  
: Admittedly, lower level fencers might be tempted to look at their target
: before attacking (such as looking to the head before launching a head
: cut) but better fencers KNOW where their target is.  If I know where your
: weapon hand is, I know where your head is.

: Possibly I can see Epee fencers doing this before a toe touch, but I
: doubt at higher levels this is happening either (not a Epee fencer, so I
: can't say for certain).

: All you are ever going to see in my eyes is concentration and
: determination, and I think that works better for me if you do see my eyes.
: .

: L. Dale Walter

Actually, growing up with Tae Kwon Do and Shotokan Karate, I've learned
That one's eyes can certainly tell one's intentions.  I'm not saying that you
will know where, and how fast, an attack is coming, but definitley when.

Even at higher level fencing I believe that if you are apt enough to pick up
on your opponents eye's, an advantage may be gained.

Now, if you're asking "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU LOOK FOR IN HIS EYES?"
Man, it may be considered another sport!!  Talk to a Tae Kwon Do master or
something, better yet post something!

Anyway, I think these lexan masks, are more realistic and truer to the history
of the sport......people back in the day didn't cover there eyes!  Oh wait,
maybe they did.....well at least ZORO did...you know that black thing he wore
over his eyes!  Scratch that comment!

If or when fencers get good at this eye thing, it may be just another peice on
the chess board another tool for deception, another HEADACHE!!  But just a bit
more challenging ;)

FOR THOSE who think the sport of fencing would drastically change or will mess
things up in there lives because of this............you're entitled to your
opinion.

Dan...........

 
 
 

Lexan Masks

Post by Bryan J. Malon » Tue, 12 Mar 1996 04:00:00

So, anyway, what have people heard about lexan masks?
 
 
 

Lexan Masks

Post by L dale Walt » Tue, 12 Mar 1996 04:00:00

They are made by Zikovic (sp?) and have a Lexan "shield"  that covers the
eyes, while the rest of the mask is traditional mesh.  The shield can be
replaced if it becomes too scratched, and the mask passes 1600 Newton FIE
requirements.

As it is non-conductive, it is Foil-Epee only, but Mr. Zikovoc told me
that a Sabre version was forthcoming.

I have one, I love it.  I sprayed a little anti-fog on the shield, and
have had no fogging problems.  Range of vision is greatly increased, and
blades are easier to see.

The masks sell from $210-$260, depending on colors or lack thereof.  One
color being $210, and three color (with some nifty patterns I might add)
are $260.

L. Dale Walter

 
 
 

Lexan Masks

Post by Chris Muenz » Tue, 19 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

> They are made by Zikovic (sp?) and have a Lexan "shield"  that covers the
> eyes, while the rest of the mask is traditional mesh.  The shield can be
> replaced if it becomes too scratched, and the mask passes 1600 Newton FIE
> requirements.

But as I have been told by one of the USFA armours, Ted Lee. The masks are
only legal on a two year trail and will be reevaluted soon.

Quote:
> As it is non-conductive, it is Foil-Epee only, but Mr. Zikovoc told me
> that a Sabre version was forthcoming.

How is he planing to do that? Conductive platics.

Quote:
> I have one, I love it.  I sprayed a little anti-fog on the shield, and
> have had no fogging problems.  Range of vision is greatly increased, and
> blades are easier to see.

How much does that help your fencing. I would think you would have
problems with  glare.

Quote:
> The masks sell from $210-$260, depending on colors or lack thereof.  One
> color being $210, and three color (with some nifty patterns I might add)
> are $260.

The colors on the mask are hidious. Some of them are neon green!! I'm not
sure how that got to be a pastel color.
Another issue is the fact that lexan can develop micro cracks in it with
out showing signs of fatigue.

Quote:
> L. Dale Walter

--
Chris Muenzer

Suport Internet freedom
http://www.eff.org/blueribbon
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MCT:%7+KDX<J7X-?G8Q?F-=E8XFIC9M'H;&87FDJDD(A:M(\)$A&G_MT*6,C+

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end
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Lexan Masks

Post by Roger Boo » Tue, 19 Mar 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> We seem to be talking about the "soft focus" advocated in some of the
> martial arts and in "The Inner Game of Tennis." "Hard," sharp, intense
> focus on any one point causes tension, is associated with slower reflexes,
> and makes you easier to fool. Soft focus -- on whatever -- lets you take in
> the whole picture, respond to subtler cues, and respond with the quicker
> reflexes associated with peripheral vision.

Ancient concept.  Try reading "A Book of Five Rings" by I believe Musashi.
The amount of information you can keep track of and process while using
your peripheral vision is amazing.

Roger

 
 
 

Lexan Masks

Post by Peter Gustafss » Wed, 20 Mar 1996 04:00:00

Hi!



Quote:


>> They are made by Zikovic (sp?) and have a Lexan "shield"  that covers the
>> eyes, while the rest of the mask is traditional mesh.  The shield can be
>> replaced if it becomes too scratched, and the mask passes 1600 Newton FIE
>> requirements.

>But as I have been told by one of the USFA armours, Ted Lee. The masks are
>only legal on a two year trail and will be reevaluted soon.

>> As it is non-conductive, it is Foil-Epee only, but Mr. Zikovoc told me
>> that a Sabre version was forthcoming.

>How is he planing to do that? Conductive platics.

Yes, there are conductive plastics. One can also coat plastics with very thin
layers of conductive metals - the layers can be so thin that vision is not
impaired in either direction.

Quote:
>> I have one, I love it.  I sprayed a little anti-fog on the shield, and
>> have had no fogging problems.  Range of vision is greatly increased, and
>> blades are easier to see.

>How much does that help your fencing. I would think you would have
>problems with  glare.

>> The masks sell from $210-$260, depending on colors or lack thereof.  One
>> color being $210, and three color (with some nifty patterns I might add)
>> are $260.

>The colors on the mask are hidious. Some of them are neon green!! I'm not
>sure how that got to be a pastel color.
>Another issue is the fact that lexan can develop micro cracks in it with
>out showing signs of fatigue.

As long as these microcracks (I am not sure of their possibility) stay small,
they do not pose any safety problem. The *ONLY* way in which they can be
dangerous for a safety-minded fencer is if they can develop into a total
breakage of the lexan shield *without* first passing though a stage of large
visible cracks. I strongly doubt this. In any case, the shields will probably
be replaced due to scratching before they are weakened due to cracks. If you
start looking at the force-time dynamics and get out those textbooks on
polymeric materials, you will see what I mean.

Quote:
>> L. Dale Walter

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

 
 
 

Lexan Masks

Post by Thierry BALENGHIE » Thu, 21 Mar 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> Don't you think that being able to see a fencers face would be good for
> spectator viewing of a match...especially for a TV camera?

Yes I think it is a good thing, not specially for TV but for every one.