DE bouts of 10 or 15

DE bouts of 10 or 15

Post by sasha zuck » Sun, 29 Oct 1995 04:00:00


If you're an aggressive fencer like me (aggressive - not offensive), you
essentially have to do 50% more work.  Pant-pant-pant.  ...

Quote:
>I hate to see a skilled fencer lose a DE bout because he just got tired...

Train harder.

-sasha

 
 
 

DE bouts of 10 or 15

Post by Kerry Anders » Tue, 31 Oct 1995 04:00:00

Sasha,

I am disappointed in your cop-out, one-liner response.  As Mark Twain once said "for every complex problem, there is a simple solution, and it's wrong".

You clearly missed the point I was trying to bring out.  Is fencing to become a test of stamina or should it remain a test of skill.  Not that the two should be distict but I think bouts to 15 unnecessarily emphasize stamina.  A bout to 10 is sufficient to determine the superior fencer.

I run marathons so this isn't me personally whining about "I'm tired... these bouts are toooo long".  More like me saying "God, this is cruel... I'm going to beat this kid 15-2 and totally demoralize him" or "La-de-da, la-de-da. Huh, what, 10-9? Oh I guess it's time to start fencing".

So, to reiterate, the question put forth is

   "Do you feel bouts to 15 are necessary to determine a winner, or is a bout to 10
    sufficient".

Looking forward to any intelligent answers...

Kerry


Quote:

> If you're an aggressive fencer like me (aggressive - not offensive), you
> essentially have to do 50% more work.  Pant-pant-pant.  ...

> >I hate to see a skilled fencer lose a DE bout because he just got tired...

> Train harder.

> -sasha


 
 
 

DE bouts of 10 or 15

Post by Kerry Anders » Wed, 01 Nov 1995 04:00:00

Thank you for giving a thoughtful answer this time around.  You're opinion, though it's different from mine, is valid.  How about other people's opinions now.


Quote:

> > I am disappointed in your cop-out, one-liner response.  As Mark Twain
> once said "for every complex problem, there is a simple solution, and it's
> wrong".

> I think this is hardly a complex problem!

> > You clearly missed the point I was trying to bring out.  Is fencing to
> become > a test of stamina or should it remain a test of skill.  Not that
> the two
> > should be distict but I think bouts to 15 unnecessarily emphasize
> stamina.  A > bout to 10 is sufficient to determine the superior fencer.
> >    "Do you feel bouts to 15 are necessary to determine a winner, or is a
> bout to 10
> >     sufficient".

> Dude, a one touch bout is sufficient to determine a winner. I really don't
> think 15 touches is so horribly long, especially when you're only talking
> about nine minutes of fencing time. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what the
> score goes to, good fencers will win, bad fencers will lose.

> It is my opinion, also, that if a skilled fencer loses because he/she
> can't make it too the end of a fif*** touch bout, that fencer can blame
> nothing but his/her self. My reasoning is that hundreds of skilled fencers
> around the world have been fencing 15 touch bouts for a couple years now.

> The case differs from weapon to weapon. In Sabre, the bout will rarely or
> never go past the end of the first period. In a foil match between two
> good fencers, the bout may get halfway through the second period, rarely
> farther. In epee, it may be common that the time almost runs out.

> If anything, the new fif*** touch format is easier to handle than
> previous 10 touch nonstop bout since you only fence for 3 minutes at a
> time and get two 1 min. breaks.

> I think the current system's fine and the only people that will have
> trouble with it are people that get first-rounded at the NAC's anyway.

> so there,

> >:-P

> -sasha


 
 
 

DE bouts of 10 or 15

Post by sasha zuck » Wed, 01 Nov 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

> I am disappointed in your cop-out, one-liner response.  As Mark Twain

once said "for every complex problem, there is a simple solution, and it's
wrong".

I think this is hardly a complex problem!

Quote:
> You clearly missed the point I was trying to bring out.  Is fencing to

become > a test of stamina or should it remain a test of skill.  Not that
the two
Quote:
> should be distict but I think bouts to 15 unnecessarily emphasize

stamina.  A > bout to 10 is sufficient to determine the superior fencer.

Quote:
>    "Do you feel bouts to 15 are necessary to determine a winner, or is a
bout to 10
>     sufficient".

Dude, a one touch bout is sufficient to determine a winner. I really don't
think 15 touches is so horribly long, especially when you're only talking
about nine minutes of fencing time. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what the
score goes to, good fencers will win, bad fencers will lose.

It is my opinion, also, that if a skilled fencer loses because he/she
can't make it too the end of a fif*** touch bout, that fencer can blame
nothing but his/her self. My reasoning is that hundreds of skilled fencers
around the world have been fencing 15 touch bouts for a couple years now.

The case differs from weapon to weapon. In Sabre, the bout will rarely or
never go past the end of the first period. In a foil match between two
good fencers, the bout may get halfway through the second period, rarely
farther. In epee, it may be common that the time almost runs out.

If anything, the new fif*** touch format is easier to handle than
previous 10 touch nonstop bout since you only fence for 3 minutes at a
time and get two 1 min. breaks.

I think the current system's fine and the only people that will have
trouble with it are people that get first-rounded at the NAC's anyway.

so there,

Quote:
>:-P

-sasha
 
 
 

DE bouts of 10 or 15

Post by Mary Ellen Curti » Wed, 01 Nov 1995 04:00:00

Actually, I liked the best-of-three arrangement better than either the
10-touch or the 15-touch DE bout format.  Even with only 10 touches,
you tended to get the "once up, always up" phenomenon, or else bouts
which didn't really get moving until the last few touches.  Best-of-three
gave a good cushion against the vicissitudes of fate, while remaining a
format that any spectator could readily understand.

Dirk Goldgar

postal:    9 Titus Mill Rd., Pennington, NJ 08534,  USA

 
 
 

DE bouts of 10 or 15

Post by Orde » Sat, 04 Nov 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

>The case differs from weapon to weapon.<snip>  In epee, it may be common that the time almost runs out.

>-sasha

I once fenced in an epee bout that I won 2:1 in extra time!  It was
rather boring though.

Orde

 
 
 

DE bouts of 10 or 15

Post by Solomand » Sat, 04 Nov 1995 04:00:00

I think that a seeding pool followed by 15 touch DE is less strenuous than
fencing 4 or more rounds of pools in a moderate to large sized tournament.
 I have been beaten by various fencers in the first round of a tournament
that haven't been able to hold up their hands by the semi final round.
The thing that I like about a 15 touch bout is that it gives you an
opportunity to change your game a few times.  I wouldn't argue with a best
of 3  five touch bout format either.    Despite Sasha's usual flip tone,
conditioning matters a lot... maybe not in the bout, but in keeping you
strong and for the duration of the tournament.

Joel Solomon