I may never take my foil seriously again

I may never take my foil seriously again

Post by Scott A Abfalt » Fri, 14 Jul 1995 04:00:00


I just got a sabre as an anniversary gift from my wife, and wanted to post
how incredibly _cool_ it is. :)

As someone said before, it's hard to look at a steel whip with an orthepedic
grip and think 'sword'.  Not so with this baby!  This is a SWORD.  I want
to go stick someone.  :)

Don't know how to use it yet, but it sure is fun goofing around with it!

(I am not finished learning foil basics yet, so I took the precautionary
 measure of not getting a sabre glove yet so I would not be too tempted
 to switch to a new weapon.  But it's going to be hard to resist!)

Scott Allen Abfalter

 
 
 

I may never take my foil seriously again

Post by Mary Ellen Curti » Fri, 14 Jul 1995 04:00:00


Quote:
>I just got a sabre as an anniversary gift from my wife, and wanted to post
>how incredibly _cool_ it is. :)

>As someone said before, it's hard to look at a steel whip with an orthepedic
>grip and think 'sword'.  Not so with this baby!  This is a SWORD.  I want
>to go stick someone.  :)

No, no, no!  You don't "stick" people with a sabre!

You whack them.

Dirk Goldgar

postal:    9 Titus Mill Rd., Pennington, NJ 08534,  USA

 
 
 

I may never take my foil seriously again

Post by Ed M » Sat, 15 Jul 1995 04:00:00

Sabre is a fantastic weapon, just as foil is.  Give it a try -- there's
no reason why you can't fence both.  

You may find that aside what the weapon itself, it is the foil game &
tactics which holds your interest.


: I just got a sabre as an anniversary gift from my wife, and wanted to post
: how incredibly _cool_ it is. :)

: As someone said before, it's hard to look at a steel whip with an orthepedic
: grip and think 'sword'.  Not so with this baby!  This is a SWORD.  I want
: to go stick someone.  :)

: Don't know how to use it yet, but it sure is fun goofing around with it!

: (I am not finished learning foil basics yet, so I took the precautionary
:  measure of not getting a sabre glove yet so I would not be too tempted
:  to switch to a new weapon.  But it's going to be hard to resist!)

: Scott Allen Abfalter

 
 
 

I may never take my foil seriously again

Post by John Paul » Sun, 16 Jul 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

> I just got a sabre as an anniversary gift from my wife, and wanted to post
> how incredibly _cool_ it is. :)

I'll agree, sabres have an inherent coolness to them. They just seem to
stick out more.

Quote:

> As someone said before, it's hard to look at a steel whip with an orthepedic
> grip and think 'sword'.  Not so with this baby!  This is a SWORD.  I want
> to go stick someone.  :)

Ah, here I disagree. It all depends on what you define as 'sword'. Edged
or pointed, it's still a 'sword'! Sabers are mostly for slashing, epees
and foils for pointing (and NOT ***!), as you certainly know. If
you're into ***, a) you're in the wrong newsgroup  and b) I hope I
never fence you in a tournament.  :-)  If you find your foil too whippy,
get a stiffer blade! And if your REALLY want to go stick someone, you
should get an epee, not a sabre...

Quote:

> Don't know how to use it yet, but it sure is fun goofing around with it!

> (I am not finished learning foil basics yet, so I took the precautionary
>  measure of not getting a sabre glove yet so I would not be too tempted
>  to switch to a new weapon.  But it's going to be hard to resist!)

IMHO, you should probably get the foil basics down pat before you consider
switching to sabre. You'll fence much better for it.

Quote:

> Scott Allen Abfalter

(I take my foil QUITE seriously)

--
This is not to be taken seriously or as an insult to Catholicism. I'm just some dweeb assuming other people's identities on the net and in the process probably upsetting somebody. Tough. Relax!
Peace to all.

 
 
 

I may never take my foil seriously again

Post by CJarr » Tue, 18 Jul 1995 04:00:00


Quote:
Abfalter) writes:
>I just got a sabre as an anniversary gift from my wife, and wanted to
post
>how incredibly _cool_ it is. :)

>As someone said before, it's hard to look at a steel whip with an
orthepedic
>grip and think 'sword'.  Not so with this baby!  This is a SWORD.  I want
>to go stick someone.  :)

Sabre is a lot of fun... funny though I have the opposite response - I
can't take sabre seriously (I'm afraid if I do, it will cease to be fun).
So I seriously pursue epee, and to some extent foil, and leave sabre for
just having fun.

BTW - although you can stick people with a sabre, it is usually more
effective to hack at them... actually I hope you learn to cut correctly
when you learn sabre.  Too many people use their whole arm when a cut is
supposed to be just with the fingers (maybe augmented a little with the
wrist, but mostly fingers).

Quote:
>(I am not finished learning foil basics yet, so I took the precautionary
> measure of not getting a sabre glove yet so I would not be too tempted
> to switch to a new weapon.  But it's going to be hard to resist!)

I fence sabre from time to time, but I don't have a "sabre glove".  In
fact (and I defer to real sabreurs on this), I don't think it really
matters which type of glove you use for sabre as much as it doesn for, say
epee, where you don't want too much that can snag on your opponent's
point.  Now if you mean the over-glove... I understand.  I have yet to
invest in any electric sabre equipment myself (and it will probably be a
while yet before I do, just because I don't take it seriously enough to
bother).

I recommend you continue with foil for a while longer... and especially
get the footwork down.  IMHO, footwork is the cornerstone of fencing, and
this is especially true of sabre in light of the "no crossing the feet"
rule.

Have fun.

 
 
 

I may never take my foil seriously again

Post by AMcBa » Tue, 18 Jul 1995 04:00:00


writes:

Quote:
>BTW - although you can stick people with a sabre, it is usually more
>effective to hack at them... actually I hope you learn to cut correctly
>when you learn sabre.  Too many people use their whole arm when a cut is
>supposed to be just with the fingers (maybe augmented a little with the
>wrist, but mostly fingers).

I am reminded of the JOs in Cleveland (lo these many years ago)...

I was reffing foil or epee, and two strips to my right the esteemed Ralph
Zimmerman was reffing some munchkin sabre (it was probably U17, but I'm
not sure). Loud whacking sounds were emanating from Ralph's strip. First I
heard him say, "Lighten up, gentlemen."

More whacking sounds.

"Gentlemen, cuts in sabre are made with the _fingers_, not the elbows."

Whack, whack, whack.

"Gentlemen, waiting in the wings are warnings for brutality."

No more whacking.

Ann McBain Ezzell
USFA Secretary (the elected kind; not the work-in-the-office kind)

 
 
 

I may never take my foil seriously again

Post by Jessie Mical » Tue, 18 Jul 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
>(CJarred)said:
>I fence sabre from time to time, but I don't have a "sabre glove".  In
>fact (and I defer to real sabreurs on this), I don't think it really
>matters which type of glove you use for sabre as much as it doesn for, say
>epee, where you don't want too much that can snag on your opponent's
>point.

It only matters in that those sabre cuts and whip-overs can HURT!  A nice
padded sabre glove is much better than a thin foil/epee glove!  

Jessie (who loves her new $12 sabre glove)

 
 
 

I may never take my foil seriously again

Post by Jessie Mical » Wed, 19 Jul 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
>>I had written previously...
>>        .....sabre cuts and whip-overs can hurt!
>To which Estela De Paz said:
>    Real saber fencers don't feel pain.

To which I say:
        Sure they do!  They just pretend not to when being watched by foil
and epee fencers!  


 
 
 

I may never take my foil seriously again

Post by Jose A. Sierra, Jr., M.D » Wed, 19 Jul 1995 04:00:00


Quote:
(Jessie Micales) writes:

>>>I had written previously...
>>>    .....sabre cuts and whip-overs can hurt!

>>To which Estela De Paz said:
>>        Real saber fencers don't feel pain.

>To which I say:
>    Sure they do!  They just pretend not to when being watched by
foil
>and epee fencers!  



Hmm.  Good point.

Pan

 
 
 

I may never take my foil seriously again

Post by Estela De P » Wed, 19 Jul 1995 04:00:00


Quote:
(Jessie Micales) writes:

>>(CJarred)said:
>>I fence sabre from time to time, but I don't have a "sabre glove".
In
>>fact (and I defer to real sabreurs on this), I don't think it really
>>matters which type of glove you use for sabre as much as it doesn
for, say
>>epee, where you don't want too much that can snag on your opponent's
>>point.

>It only matters in that those sabre cuts and whip-overs can HURT!  A
nice
>padded sabre glove is much better than a thin foil/epee glove!  

Real saber fencers don't feel pain.  (Sabre-skin.)
 
 
 

I may never take my foil seriously again

Post by Stephan Khin » Sat, 22 Jul 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
> Scott Allen Abfalter writes:
>IMHO, you should probably get the foil basics down pat before you
>consider switching to sabre. You'll fence much better for it.

As a matter of fact, generations of Hungarians have started with sabre and
gone on to dominate world championships. There's no reason not to
concentrate on sabre except for what I think of as American impatience, the
belief that only what works TODAY has any significance. I don't think you
can learn sabre that way -- but with patience, you can learn excellent
sabre without knowing another weapon.
 
 
 

I may never take my foil seriously again

Post by LIAM COLLI » Sat, 29 Jul 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
>> Scott Allen Abfalter writes:
>>IMHO, you should probably get the foil basics down pat before
> you
>>consider switching to sabre. You'll fence much better for it.

>As a matter of fact, generations of Hungarians have started
> with sabre and
>gone on to dominate world championships. There's no reason not
> to
>concentrate on sabre except for what I think of as American
> impatience, the
>belief that only what works TODAY has any significance. I don't
> think you
>can learn sabre that way -- but with patience, you can learn
> excellent
>sabre without knowing another weapon.

Amen!!!!
It's an American coaching fallacy that you MUST fence foil before
switching to another weapon.  Most coaches who have trained in Europe,
or who aren't quite so inflexible, will start people today in the weapon
of their choice. To insist that someone fence years of foil to acquire
'technique' is sublimely inane. Yes, there is some crossover of "basic"
ideas, but the techniques of epee and foil, and espicially modern sabre
and foil, are VERY different and require a significant amount of
attention.  God knows I've seen enough foil-sabre two weapon fencers
***up a outside flick-touche because they couldn't decide if they
wanted to flick the foil, or do a cheek cut like it was sabre.

Liam-Michele Brian Collins

**** Quant au courage moral, il avait trouvre' fort rare, diasit-il
celui de deux heures apres minuit: c'est-a-dire le courage de
l'improviste.
*******************   Napoleon Bonaparte

 
 
 

I may never take my foil seriously again

Post by AMullhau » Mon, 31 Jul 1995 04:00:00


It's an American coaching fallacy that you MUST fence foil before
switching to another weapon.
<<

It isn't particularly false, though. The truth of this depends on a lot
of things. In the US, where fencers are a very small fraction of the
population and distances between clubs are often large, you cut
way down on the number of interesting opponents you get if you only
fence one weapon. When you get say, three beginners who want to
start in some semester (one in each weapon) then starting them off
in the different weapons doesn't really make all that much sense.

I agree that there is no great damage done to a young fencer's
competitive fencing by starting them in the weapon they will compete
with; but after a while a fencer that only fences one weapon is going
to learn some of the most important things the hard way. I have never
seen a fencer who had a complete understanding of the cuff game
in sabre who didn't spend some time with an epee. Once you appreciate
what the epee cuff game is like, the surprising differences in sabre
can be brought into focus. There are a lot less obvious issues which
are easier to learn by comparing the different weapons, (unless you are
that rare natural).

Many Americans are willing to completely junk any advice or old traditions
left over from Europe if they don't seem to make sense. But I don't find
anything particularly bad about starting people off in foil, and there are
enough advantages to keep recommending it. Just as I am the first to
point out the deleterious m***bankruptcy of the turning the shoulders
rule in foil (one of those fabulous European ideas) I have to say that
the idea of starting in foil is not such a bad one.

Later,
Andrew P. Mullhaupt

 
 
 

I may never take my foil seriously again

Post by pete.. » Sat, 05 Aug 1995 04:00:00

Quote:


>It's an American coaching fallacy that you MUST fence foil before
>switching to another weapon.
><<

>It isn't particularly false, though. The truth of this depends on a lot
>of things. In the US, where fencers are a very small fraction of the
>population and distances between clubs are often large, you cut
>way down on the number of interesting opponents you get if you only
>fence one weapon. When you get say, three beginners who want to
>start in some semester (one in each weapon) then starting them off
>in the different weapons doesn't really make all that much sense.

>I agree that there is no great damage done to a young fencer's
>competitive fencing by starting them in the weapon they will compete
>with; but after a while a fencer that only fences one weapon is going
>to learn some of the most important things the hard way. I have never
>seen a fencer who had a complete understanding of the cuff game
>in sabre who didn't spend some time with an epee. Once you appreciate
>what the epee cuff game is like, the surprising differences in sabre
>can be brought into focus. There are a lot less obvious issues which
>are easier to learn by comparing the different weapons, (unless you are
>that rare natural).

 I think that the most common reason for fencers starting out in foil and
moving to another weapon is that most clubs in England only have good foil
coaches. If one wants to take up epee or sabre, (and you don`t live in London)
you need to travel to get other weapons coaching. This is less true for the
city, where there are many good multi weapon coaches, but they still seem to
follow suit with the rest of the country.
 I have been led to believe that in Spain, the epee is the usual first weapon,
and in some parts of Eastern Europe, the Sabre is taught first.
===============================================================================
Pete Spindley.

homepage http://www.evitech.fi/~peters/pete.html
===============================================================================