Another point in line question - Please, no more

Another point in line question - Please, no more

Post by George Edward Kolombatovic » Sat, 09 Mar 1996 04:00:00



Quote:
> For a point in line, either
> the feet matter or they don't (and they don't).

Not wishing to insult CJRivera, I have to assume that he has a new
directive from the FIE.<g> I infer from his writing that he knows that a
lunge or a fleche does not change the priority of the line.

Please enlighten all of us as to your source of information -- or are you
just stating what you wish the situation would be?

Can we all please get off of this subject.  I don't like the current
interpretation myself, but it is really a waste of all of our energy to
discuss what are the facts of the matter.  The facts are what the
combination of the Rules Book and the FIE Referees' Commission directives
state they are.  Like it or not, the Rules Book and the FIE Referees'
Commission make the facts, not what any one individual thinks they should
be.

George
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
George Kolombatovich                 Director of Fencing, Columbia University

 
 
 

Another point in line question - Please, no more

Post by Michael Per » Tue, 12 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
>The facts are what the
>combination of the Rules Book and the FIE Referees' Commission directives
>state they are.  Like it or not, the Rules Book and the FIE Referees'
>Commission make the facts, not what any one individual thinks they should
>be.

Obviously, there is misinformation floating around.  George's
contributions to the point-in-line discussion and other threads have
demonstrated that many of us should reconsider what we "know" about
the rules.  This should be relatively easy to do since most of us have
a copy of the Rules Book or should know where to get a copy (the USFA
national office sells them).  

Unfortunately, this is not sufficient.  As George has repeatedly
pointed out, the rules must be "interpreted".  Directives issued by
the FIE instruct referees on this issue.  I assume (hope) this
important information is routinely distributed to rated referees;
however, misconceptions about rules interpretations are not confined
to referees.  FIE directives have occasionally been discussed in the
USFA magazine "American Fencing"; however, it would be beneficial to
have them available in a form that is more accessible and can be more
easily referenced (ie. addendum to Rules Book; inclusion in fencing
FAQ, USFA web site, etc.).  

Most of us can "Look it up in the Rules Book", but who knows how to
"Look it up the in the FIE Directives"?   What can be done to make
this important information more openly available to the fencing
public?  If this important information is publicly available (by this,
I don't mean back issues of American Fencing), how do we get it?  

 
 
 

Another point in line question - Please, no more

Post by AMcBa » Wed, 13 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
Perry) writes:
>Most of us can "Look it up in the Rules Book", but who knows how to
>"Look it up the in the FIE Directives"?   What can be done to make
>this important information more openly available to the fencing
>public?  If this important information is publicly available (by this,
>I don't mean back issues of American Fencing), how do we get it?  

Well, for a start, the current FIE "Temporary Provisions" are now attached
to the USFA Rules Book. The files are available in PageMaker 5 format via
ftp at users.aol.com/amcbain and should soon be available from the USFA
web page.

Ann McBain Ezzell
USFA National Secretary (the elected kind, but not for very much longer)



 
 
 

Another point in line question - Please, no more

Post by Robert BLA » Fri, 15 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
>>...[earlier dialogue deleted]... FAQ, USFA web site, etc.).  
>> Most of us can "Look it up in the Rules Book", but who knows how to
>> "Look it up the in the FIE Directives"?   What can be done to make
>> this important information more openly available to the fencing
>> public?  If this important information is publicly available (by this,
>> I don't mean back issues of American Fencing), how do we get it?  
>Well stated!  This is a most serious problem.  The United States Fencing
>Association's Fencing Officials Commission will be publishing a "Handbook
>for Referees" within a month.  This booklet includes information on such
>things as the point in line along with how one becomes a rated referee.  
>When the "Handbook for Referees" is finished, I'll post it to
>rec.sport.fencing and it will also be available on the usfa web page.

GEORGE,

Many thanks for this major endeavor of the USFA FOC!   Sure wish we
could have had this sort of thing sooner.  Making it easily available
on the USFA  Web site in a form easily downloaded or sent as a
message or document will hopefully have high priority.  The site is a
godsend for getting needed, up-to-date info in a hurry.

E.g.,  was informed by a fellow ref at a recent major tournament that,
in tied  bouts where all time has run out  (basic & extra minute),
those bouts are now scored  as  5-5 or 15-15, w/victory to person
w/priority (from coin toss at end of time).  Another e.g.,  heads for
coin toss is always to ref's right.

Refs have found out about these things only because a fellow ref was
at a USFA-run national level or higher tournament, was somehowe
informed about these updates/changes at that meet, and happened to
mention it in passing to other refs at Sectional, Divisional, and
other tournaments.  Leaves one to wonder how rules can be interpreted
in any manner if they aren't even known!

Again, congrats on getting the new 'Directives' brochure/pamphlet
produced.  It has obvioiusly been sorely needed!  All the best,

                        ROBERT BLACK
                        Salle Santelli

PS -  Trust your team did well in the recent NCAA Regionals; good to
have seen you at the NJ chamjpionships (maybe they'll run them closer
to civilization next time!).

 
 
 

Another point in line question - Please, no more

Post by NanHoffm » Tue, 19 Mar 1996 04:00:00

I came up with a suggestion for my division to help educate fencers and
hopefully encourage fencers to consider becoming officials. Perhaps USFA
National might consider helping with this. The idea is this: A Fencing
Rule Trivia Contest. In my division, the fencers who scored over a certain
grade on the test fenced for free at their next tournament. This would at
the very least, encourage more people to look at the rule book and might
generate some stimulating conversations. It might also help in the
recruiting of officials. Besides, if all fencers had a better
understanding of the rules, wouldn't that make it easier for tournament
organizers, bout committees, and directors alike?
 
 
 

Another point in line question - Please, no more

Post by AMcBa » Wed, 20 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
(NanHoffman) writes:
>I came up with a suggestion for my division to help educate fencers and
>hopefully encourage fencers to consider becoming officials. Perhaps USFA
>National might consider helping with this. The idea is this: A Fencing
>Rule Trivia Contest. In my division, the fencers who scored over a
certain
>grade on the test fenced for free at their next tournament. This would at
>the very least, encourage more people to look at the rule book and might
>generate some stimulating conversations. It might also help in the
>recruiting of officials. Besides, if all fencers had a better
>understanding of the rules, wouldn't that make it easier for tournament
>organizers, bout committees, and directors alike?

I think this is a great idea. The Referee Exam Study Guide would be a good
place to start looking.

Ann McBain Ezzell
USFA National Secretary (the elected kind, but not for very much longer)