Best Equipment Around!

Best Equipment Around!

Post by Q8Z900 » Fri, 07 May 1993 04:03:44


Why, hello there,

Sorry if you feel horribly deceived by the title, but what I'm actually
looking for is to start some conversation and get some opinions, not
reveal to you some great fantasy supply company which sells great
quality equipment for dirt.

I just got the notion that opinions on this subject would be nice after
reading that letter posted inquiring about "Blue Gauntlet" (for the
record, never heard of them). So, to start us off ...
When I was at the Canada Games with a team I was co-coaching, one of our
fencers had a Santelli mask which was brand new, sent to him by his
uncle in N.Y., N.Y., and it failed the mask check because the bib was, I
swear this is true, stapled on. It was stapled on in a few places, and
it is totally conceivable that a blade could hit the bib and deflect up
into the throat (we tried, and it wasn't hard to do at all). This
fencer also had a a Santelli FIE mask, which was fine. I personally
prefer Soudet FIE masks, but at any rate ...
Opinions, horror stories ... anyone? anyone?
P.S. re: the cup thing. Women may be fascinated, or disgusted, to know
that there is no (as of a couple of years ago, at least, unless this
has changed) rule forcing men to wear cups, but there is one forcing
women to wear BP's. The sport we all love is fairly non progressive at
times.

Right, then!
Marc A. MacKenzie.

 
 
 

Best Equipment Around!

Post by r.. » Fri, 07 May 1993 06:24:35

.
.
.

Quote:
>When I was at the Canada Games with a team I was co-coaching, one of our
>fencers had a Santelli mask which was brand new, sent to him by his
>uncle in N.Y., N.Y., and it failed the mask check because the bib was, I
>swear this is true, stapled on. It was stapled on in a few places, and
>it is totally conceivable that a blade could hit the bib and deflect up
>into the throat (we tried, and it wasn't hard to do at all). This
>fencer also had a a Santelli FIE mask, which was fine. I personally
>prefer Soudet FIE masks, but at any rate ...
>Opinions, horror stories ... anyone? anyone?

.
.
.

Quote:
>Right, then!
>Marc A. MacKenzie.

My personal vote for "the best equipment" would probably go in the
direction of All Star and Uhlmann (I personally prefer All Star, but
they're really the same).  I prefer both their masks and clothing.

I have two gripes about Santelli.  I really hate the masks.  It's hard
to believe that their FIE mask is really FIE.  I suppose this opinion
is mostly based on the fact that the bib is so flimsy, putting the
throat in danger.

I have owned two Santelli FIE jackets:  FIE 1988 and FIE 1992.  On both,
the stitching has come out on the inside of the right forearm (I'm
right-handed).  True, I fence epee, but I feel that the extra money
that I paid to have that little FIE badge on the fabric should prevent
such things from happening.

--
Rusty Bourland


 
 
 

Best Equipment Around!

Post by Palit, Sum » Fri, 07 May 1993 01:59:00

Quote:


>I have owned two Santelli FIE jackets:  FIE 1988 and FIE 1992.  On both,
>the stitching has come out on the inside of the right forearm (I'm
>right-handed).  True, I fence epee, but I feel that the extra money
>that I paid to have that little FIE badge on the fabric should prevent
>such things from happening.

>--
>Rusty Bourland


A question on FIE clothing... does it mean kevlar all over the uniform
or only in critical parts? I've also heard that if you wear a kevlar
underarm protector in FIE competitions, your jacket does not need
to have kevlar sewn in. Is  that true ? Just curious....

I wonder what the new ruling is on uniform colors, too. I've seen kids
coming to tournaments with patches of yellow and green sewn all over their
off-arm and rear-leg. So how much color is permitted anyways ?

Suman Palit

 
 
 

Best Equipment Around!

Post by Palit, Sum » Fri, 07 May 1993 01:50:00

Quote:

>Why, hello there,

>When I was at the Canada Games with a team I was co-coaching, one of our
>fencers had a Santelli mask which was brand new, sent to him by his
>uncle in N.Y., N.Y., and it failed the mask check because the bib was, I

        Same experience here Santelli masks, the first club purchase of
masks was from Santelli, and two masks failed the punch test at a
tournament. Personally, for foil/epee masks, I've found the Italian make
Gajardoni to be the best & cheapest. About $50 bucks, and a Darth Vader
mesh to boot. Of course, my coach swears by his Prieur... but the price,
ouch, ouch..

Quote:
>P.S. re: the cup thing. Women may be fascinated, or disgusted, to know
>that there is no (as of a couple of years ago, at least, unless this
>has changed) rule forcing men to wear cups, but there is one forcing
>women to wear BP's. The sport we all love is fairly non progressive at
>times.

        I see it this way, getting hit on the ***s is definitely more
common than getting sideswiped on the groin, considering what a small target
it is compared to the above. The only time I ever wore a cup during fencing,
I felt more uncomfortable than safe.

Quote:

>Right, then!
>Marc A. MacKenzie.

Certainly, if you insist!
Suman Palit
 
 
 

Best Equipment Around!

Post by gr.. » Fri, 07 May 1993 08:38:37

Interesting.  I am not sure I could point at one company for "best" of
everything.

For instance:  many mentioned Santelli mask problems.  I have an early Santelli
FIE mask with uses France-Lame mesh and kevlar in the bib (between some
synthetic leather and cloth).  I have had little or no problems with its mesh
or with the bib.

I have had a lot of trouble with their garments.  My FIE jacket from them just
fell apart.  (And NO I did not machine wash or bleach it.)

My Triplette Jacket has been wonderful.  They make multiple types of FIE
approved jackets.  Mine is the heaviest with ballistic nylon everywhere.  Now,
this jacket is not for everyone.  It does not form-fit so in competative epee
I am at a disadvantage.  In SCA fighting, it has protected my (left)arm against
severe injury.  Its been worth the extra few bucks.  Anyone have one of their
stretch cotton jackets?  I was wondering if I can get one of those with B.N.
for competition...  {next season... maybe... if I have $$$}-:

Having taught a fair number of people... I have seen equipment come and go.  I
too swear by Prieur masks -- when my wife bought a mask, that is what I
recommended for her.  What is a few more dollars for the safety margin?

Gajardoni masks: those are a mixed lot.  I have imbedded an electic epee tip
right into the mask.  No, I was not being ***, nor was the fencer who owned
the mask.  It just was weak.  It was also NEW.  Testing the mask after this
incident did not show any failures EXCEPT at this one spot.  AFS sold the mask
and nicely credited the owner some $$$ towards a new mask.

I do not trust center-reinforced masks.  When testing these masked in USFA
bouts, many failed around the center spline.  The theory by my local club
president is that the reinforcing bar actually causes further stress on the
mesh when the mask is hit and "vibrates".  Whatever, they fail more often.

Uhlmann and All-Star masks don't seem to be as strong or last as long as the
Prieur.  Not enough of a sample to prove this -- not many around here spring
for the extra bucks.

But, I DO like how the All-Star uniforms fit.  Just like a glove!  Someday
when I am rich....

Blades? As an epee fencer my preference is for the Hostein Plus blades.  The
new SilverStar blades intrigue me.  

Blade and Blue Gauntlet sell Russian blades.  I saw some this weekend and they
were stiff, ok but not great grinding.  Probably ok for practice but I would
never consider one for competition.  The price is nice though...  

Sorry for the rambling... looking forward to others experience!

Dana

 
 
 

Best Equipment Around!

Post by r.. » Fri, 07 May 1993 08:57:53

Quote:

>A question on FIE clothing... does it mean kevlar all over the uniform
>or only in critical parts? I've also heard that if you wear a kevlar
>underarm protector in FIE competitions, your jacket does not need
>to have kevlar sewn in. Is  that true ? Just curious....

Beats me -- I'm not sure about this kevlar business for sure, but you may
have to have the whole uniform made out of it.  I know that for a uniform
article to be approved, it must have that extra protection in certain
parts such as under the arm and in the groin areas.

I have a feeling that jackets, knickers, masks, and weapons must be FIE
approved in order to be used in an FIE competition.  So, I doubt that you
could get away with using an underarm protector an a regular jacket as
opposed to a plain FIE jacket...in an FIE competition.

Quote:
>I wonder what the new ruling is on uniform colors, too. I've seen kids
>coming to tournaments with patches of yellow and green sewn all over their
>off-arm and rear-leg. So how much color is permitted anyways ?

>Suman Palit

I understand that it will soon be mandatory for all fencers in the USFA
to include their last names on the back of their jackets.  I have also read
that uniform color changes are being considered, but I haven't seen any
word on that as of late.  Seen the new clear masks?

--
Rusty Bourland

 
 
 

Best Equipment Around!

Post by gr.. » Fri, 07 May 1993 10:40:03

Quote:
(Palit, Suman) writes:
>A question on FIE clothing... does it mean kevlar all over the uniform
>or only in critical parts? I've also heard that if you wear a kevlar
>underarm protector in FIE competitions, your jacket does not need
>to have kevlar sewn in. Is  that true ? Just curious....

The USFA Rules are the final say (or the director's... :-) but... *MY* (nothing
official here) is that 800N requirements are only on specific areas of the
clothing (critical parts).  Kevlar/Ballistic Nylon are the materials used to
meet the 800N requirement.  The FIE does not specify Kevlar particularly.  In
fact, most manufacturers seem to be going to BN...  cheaper and easier to work
with (and own and care for...)

Rusty Bourland asks:

Quote:
> Seen the new clear masks?

no, please tell us more!

Dana

 
 
 

Best Equipment Around!

Post by r.. » Fri, 07 May 1993 12:26:36

Quote:

>Rusty Bourland asks:
>> Seen the new clear masks?

>no, please tell us more!

>Dana

My coach has a subscription to a French fencing magazine that happened
to have a photo of an epee fencer wearing an FIE approved mask with a
clear face at one of the recent World Cup events.  It looked interesting
since the design is somewhat different from it's metal-mesh counterparts.
I have a feeling that the cost of such a device is close to
astronomical, and I seriously doubt that it will catch on anytime soon.

--
Rusty Bourland

 
 
 

Best Equipment Around!

Post by Palit, Sum » Fri, 07 May 1993 07:39:00

Quote:

>Blades? As an epee fencer my preference is for the Hostein Plus blades.  The
>new SilverStar blades intrigue me.  

>Dana

If you fence foil, try the Elite blades of France-Lame. They are balanced
differently from the standard france-lame blade, weighted more towards
the pommel, as a result quicker, and also seem to be a bit more flexible
than most of their other offerings. I agree with the HostinPlus choice
for epee, though.

Silverstar blades I have no first hand experience with. Their foil blades
seem to break a lot... might be teething problems though..??

Suman

 
 
 

Best Equipment Around!

Post by Sean O'Conne » Fri, 07 May 1993 14:56:48

Quote:

> My coach has a subscription to a French fencing magazine that happened
> to have a photo of an epee fencer wearing an FIE approved mask with a
> clear face at one of the recent World Cup events.  It looked interesting
> since the design is somewhat different from it's metal-mesh counterparts.
> I have a feeling that the cost of such a device is close to
> astronomical, and I seriously doubt that it will catch on anytime soon.

Sooner than you think. As I remember reading (I think in American Fencer), FIE
is going to phase in the clear masks over the next few years. It's part of
their attempt to make fencing more of a general spectator sport. (Though I
prefer the current masks  =)

-------
Sean O'Connell           I'm insane, but it keeps me from going crazy.

Death - Life's way of saying, "You can let go of your ankles now."

 
 
 

Best Equipment Around!

Post by Morgan Bur » Sat, 08 May 1993 03:17:14

|> I have a feeling that jackets, knickers, masks, and weapons must be FIE
|> approved in order to be used in an FIE competition.  So, I doubt that you
|> could get away with using an underarm protector an a regular jacket as
|> opposed to a plain FIE jacket...in an FIE competition.

FIE-approved undergarments can be substituted for jackets and britches.
I know of one fencer who prefers light cotton jackets and pants, and
wears kevlar shorts and plastron underneath.  This isn't very commonly
done, however, so it's hard to find the FIE underclothes and it probably
doesn't save you much money.

-- Morgan Burke

 
 
 

Best Equipment Around!

Post by Palit, Sum » Fri, 07 May 1993 23:24:00

Quote:

>Sooner than you think. As I remember reading (I think in American Fencer), FIE
>is going to phase in the clear masks over the next few years. It's part of
>their attempt to make fencing more of a general spectator sport. (Though I
>prefer the current masks  =)

>-------
>Sean O'Connell           I'm insane, but it keeps me from going crazy.


        So how would you breathe through such a mask. I assume the clear
surface isn't riddled with holes. What happens if you sweat into a mask
like that... ? I'm sure it would periodically fog up the face-plate in the
middle of a bout. But then, I haven't really seen one, so I can't comment
with conviction....

Suman