Woman's Sabre

Woman's Sabre

Post by Amy Schmied » Fri, 09 Apr 1993 14:05:59


There are a fair number (well, about 3) women saberists in our division.  
There are several more who fence it off and on, and 3 beginners just in my  
rather small club.  (Of which I am one.)  It should definately be  
encouraged.  I think that the reason there are fewer women in fencing is  
because, whether inherently or by training (I lean to training...) women  
seem to be more timid.  Since sabre is not a timid weapon, this is  
probably why they are not in it.
                                        Amy Schmieder

 
 
 

Woman's Sabre

Post by The Fo » Fri, 09 Apr 1993 17:40:23

Quote:

>encouraged.  I think that the reason there are fewer women in fencing is  
>because, whether inherently or by training (I lean to training...) women  
>seem to be more timid.  

Hmmm.... Something must have been left out of your training. Amy. :)

                                The Fool
                                    ;-)

 
 
 

Woman's Sabre

Post by Simon Roon » Fri, 09 Apr 1993 22:32:20

Quote:
>There are a fair number (well, about 3) women saberists in our division.  
>There are several more who fence it off and on, and 3 beginners just in my  
>rather small club.  (Of which I am one.)  It should definately be  
>encouraged.  I think that the reason there are fewer women in fencing is  
>because, whether inherently or by training (I lean to training...) women  
>seem to be more timid.  Since sabre is not a timid weapon, this is  
>probably why they are not in it.

I actually find the exact oposite... women sabreurs (sabreuses?) are
vicious! Of course, there are some worse men, but on average, I find
you get the killer instinct much more with the femails.
Of course, maybe it's just coz they don't like me, but...

As for numbers, there are practically none here in Ireland (Altho'
there is one who has fierce arguments with the federation about her
entering competitions)... there are hardly any who want to take up
the weapon tho', coz it's not too popular anyway.

Quote:
>                                    Amy Schmieder

mnssio

 
 
 

Woman's Sabre

Post by Palit, Sum » Fri, 09 Apr 1993 22:21:00

Quote:

>>because, whether inherently or by training (I lean to training...) women  
>>seem to be more timid.  Since sabre is not a timid weapon, this is  
>>probably why they are not in it.
>I actually find the exact oposite... women sabreurs (sabreuses?) are
>vicious! Of course, there are some worse men, but on average, I find
>you get the killer instinct much more with the femails.

I have to agree out there, all the women sabreurs I have seen or had the
misfortune to fence, have been fairly vicious, though no more than some of
the men. (Well, I've fenced only two women sabreurs, so I'm not sure if
my observations reflect the stats...) I've also noticed they tended to be much
quicker than most of the men in the tournament, even though they were just
beginners (Please, no flames for making a potentially sexist remark :-)

suman

 
 
 

Woman's Sabre

Post by obrie.. » Sun, 11 Apr 1993 00:57:53


Quote:

>As for numbers, there are practically none here in Ireland (Altho'
>there is one who has fierce arguments with the federation about her
>entering competitions)... there are hardly any who want to take up
>the weapon tho', coz it's not too popular anyway.

Interestingly, fencing in Canada got the most media attention it
has received in years because of women's sabre. A blind (yes,
as in "visually impaired") woman from Winnipeg wanted to fence
sabre at the Militia Open tournament in Saskatchewan (one of the
larger western events). Tournament organizers were a little leery
of this idea and the CFF refused to sanction her participation.
There was a piece in the Globe and Mail about it and quite a bit
of local media coverage. Quels thrills!
  I'm not sure I understand how she intended to compete, but she
was dead serious about it. I know the guy who was training her and
he seemed pretty level-headed about things, so if he thought she
was capable of competing perhaps she was. IN any case, they
never showed at the tournament. Word is there is a lawsuit in the
works, but that was in fall and I haven't heard anything since
about it.

                                        Jeff

 
 
 

Woman's Sabre

Post by Ian Metz » Sun, 11 Apr 1993 12:46:48

Quote:


>>>because, whether inherently or by training (I lean to training...) women  
>>>seem to be more timid.  Since sabre is not a timid weapon, this is  
>>>probably why they are not in it.
>>I actually find the exact oposite... women sabreurs (sabreuses?) are
>>vicious! Of course, there are some worse men, but on average, I find
>>you get the killer instinct much more with the femails.
>I have to agree out there, all the women sabreurs I have seen or had the
>misfortune to fence, have been fairly vicious, though no more than some of
>the men. (Well, I've fenced only two women sabreurs, so I'm not sure if
>my observations reflect the stats...) I've also noticed they tended to be much
>quicker than most of the men in the tournament, even though they were just
>beginners (Please, no flames for making a potentially sexist remark :-)
>suman

most of the women sabruers I have seen have been very timid compared to the men
however when they do attack they are VERY viscious, PAIN.

admittedly in Australia barely any women train sabre, they just fence it at the
competitions, and the ones who fence it usually aren't the best fencers

        Ian

 
 
 

Woman's Sabre

Post by David Kassov » Mon, 12 Apr 1993 02:08:33

Quote:

>Interestingly, fencing in Canada got the most media attention it
>has received in years because of women's sabre. A blind (yes,
>as in "visually impaired") woman from Winnipeg wanted to fence
>sabre at the Militia Open tournament in Saskatchewan (one of the
>larger western events). Tournament organizers were a little leery
>of this idea and the CFF refused to sanction her participation.
>There was a piece in the Globe and Mail about it and quite a bit
>of local media coverage. Quels thrills!
>  I'm not sure I understand how she intended to compete, but she
>was dead serious about it. I know the guy who was training her and
>he seemed pretty level-headed about things, so if he thought she
>was capable of competing perhaps she was. IN any case, they
>never showed at the tournament. Word is there is a lawsuit in the
>works, but that was in fall and I haven't heard anything since
>about it.

I would have to say it would depend on the nature of the
impairment.  "Visually Impaired" and "Legally Blind" do not imply
no sight whatsoever.  (If you all want some hairy details, and
are willing to wait for them, I could consult with my
sister-in-law, who is "visually impaired", and specializes in the
education of visually and aurally handicapped people)

I would guess that some 30 percent, or more, of the readership of
this group could be classified as having some sort of Blindness
or Visual Impairment, without the use of optical appliances and
/or surgery.

I believe that Maestro Santelli resumed fencing and instruction
after he lost one eye in a training accident.

There used to be a sabre in my old club's equipment locker known
as the Kling Sabre.  We used to bring this out to show to
beginners as to why one should wear one's protective equipment
(after telling them about Santelli, of course).

Kling was a sabreur with one eye, and no depth perception.  He
tended to move into what he thought was correct distance and
straighten his arm.  Unfortunately, he was frequently too close,
and his bell guard would contact his opponent's mask (and one one
occasion, with a particularly tall opponent, his cup).

--
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
RPI BSEE '77 MSCSE '81            sharp weapons and dull judges."


 
 
 

Woman's Sabre

Post by obrie.. » Tue, 13 Apr 1993 20:56:39


Quote:

>I would have to say it would depend on the nature of the
>impairment.  "Visually Impaired" and "Legally Blind" do not imply
>no sight whatsoever.  (If you all want some hairy details, and
>are willing to wait for them, I could consult with my
>sister-in-law, who is "visually impaired", and specializes in the
>education of visually and aurally handicapped people)

>I would guess that some 30 percent, or more, of the readership of
>this group could be classified as having some sort of Blindness
>or Visual Impairment, without the use of optical appliances and
>/or surgery.

  As I understand it, she is completely without sight.

                                jeff

 
 
 

Woman's Sabre

Post by adam » Wed, 14 Apr 1993 18:03:34

     I remember a foil fencer I met in the late 70's who while not
totally without sight was only able to make out light/dark and vague
shapes.  He was able to fence.  While not a "winning" fencer he
enjoyed himself -- what more could one ask?  If a person felt they
could fence and their trainer did as well I would let them fence.
adam.
 
 
 

Woman's Sabre

Post by Morgan Bur » Thu, 15 Apr 1993 02:07:12


[ re: blind women's sabre fencer ]
|> >  I'm not sure I understand how she intended to compete, but she
|> >was dead serious about it. I know the guy who was training her and
|> >he seemed pretty level-headed about things, so if he thought she
|> >was capable of competing perhaps she was. IN any case, they
|> >never showed at the tournament. Word is there is a lawsuit in the
|> >works, but that was in fall and I haven't heard anything since
|> >about it.

Her name is Dominique Genest, and she fences out of Manitoba.
She claimed to fence using sound and the feel of the opponent's blade,
but I've also heard from other sources that she required advice from the
sidelines about where her opponent was and where she was on the strip.  
The CFF felt that she posed a hazard, possibly to her opponents, and
certainly to spectators, presumably because the prospect of a (broken) sword
in the hands of an out-of-control fencer is bad enough when the fencers can
see.  Last I heard, Ms. Genest was appealing to the Manitoba Human Rights
Commission.

|> I would have to say it would depend on the nature of the
|> impairment.  "Visually Impaired" and "Legally Blind" do not imply
|> no sight whatsoever.

I'm afraid Ms. Genest is quite thoroughly blind.  If memory serves, she
lost her sight to diabetes three or four years ago.

-- Morgan Burke

 
 
 

Woman's Sabre

Post by David Svobo » Sat, 17 Apr 1993 03:20:00


|
|most of the women sabruers I have seen have been very timid compared to the men
|however when they do attack they are VERY viscious, PAIN.

To me that says that they were not in control.  This is not good sabre fencing.

|admittedly in Australia barely any women train sabre, they just fence it at the
|competitions, and the ones who fence it usually aren't the best fencers

The several female sabre fencers I have fenced (in Iowa; hi Sarah) have been
easily as good as the male sabre fencers, of their relative fencing experience.
Certainly easily as good as me.  There is nothing genetic about it.  Given the
training and desire, there is NO reason a woman can't be competative in sabre.  
They do have to be given the chance.  There are still too many trainers and
officials out there that refuse to give that chance, though.

                        Dave Svoboda, Palatine, IL

 
 
 

Woman's Sabre

Post by Ian Metz » Thu, 22 Apr 1993 10:35:57

Quote:


>|
>|most of the women sabruers I have seen have been very timid compared to the men
>|however when they do attack they are VERY viscious, PAIN.
>To me that says that they were not in control.  This is not good sabre fencing.
>|admittedly in Australia barely any women train sabre, they just fence it at the
>|competitions, and the ones who fence it usually aren't the best fencers
>The several female sabre fencers I have fenced (in Iowa; hi Sarah) have been
>easily as good as the male sabre fencers, of their relative fencing experience.
>Certainly easily as good as me.  There is nothing genetic about it.  Given the
>training and desire, there is NO reason a woman can't be competative in sabre.  

the point is that there is nothing generic in it, aside from strength, the womenwho fence sabre simply aren't the top fencers, they are just the women who
don't do well in foil or epee and they pick it up for a bit of a laugh, and
because the competition isn't as stiff.

Quote:
>They do have to be given the chance.  There are still too many trainers and
>officials out there that refuse to give that chance, though.

I agree with that women should be given the same opportunities, expecially as
sabre is a relativly light weapon and should suit them well, although the
pace might not, (greater footwork required they might not have the strength)

        Ian

 
 
 

Woman's Sabre

Post by David Svobo » Sat, 24 Apr 1993 04:49:52


|
|I agree with that women should be given the same opportunities, expecially as
|sabre is a relativly light weapon and should suit them well, although the
|pace might not, (greater footwork required they might not have the strength)

Maybe I didn't say it clearly enough.

There is no reason whatsoever that a woman cannot be a VERY competative sabre
(or any other weapon) fencer.  Women are not light, dainty little things unless
they choose to be, and some particular women I can think of have all the
strength, stamina, and speed that a similarly trained male would have.  (And they
can still be very attractive ladies, thank you very much).  As far as footwork,
physiologically women are even *stronger* in the lower body, proportionally,
than men.  That is not a problem.

Yes, there are physically smaller and weaker women out there.  But small is not
a disadvantage, and remember, there are weak men out there, too.

I contend that if you have fenced less-than-greatly-skilled women, it is not
because of their gender, but because of their lack of training, fitness, etc,
and lack of opportunity.  That goes for epee and foil, too.

                        Dave Svoboda