Question of a Rule (beach) - can't find in rule book - continuation of play

Question of a Rule (beach) - can't find in rule book - continuation of play

Post by Glenste » Wed, 10 Aug 2005 09:12:20


What happens if a person spikes a ball, the ball hits the ground first, and
then the hitter on his downswing hits the net with his arm/hand?  Is this a
net infraction?
I'm getting conflicting answers that say, once the ball hits the ground or
is flying out of the court, the play is dead.  Others say there is a
"continuation" rule that states because he is still in motion from his
swing, it still counts as a net infraction from continuation of play.  I
can't find anything in the USAV 2004-2005 rule book about this.
 
 
 

Question of a Rule (beach) - can't find in rule book - continuation of play

Post by Todd Haverko » Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:59:54

Quote:

> What happens if a person spikes a ball, the ball hits the ground first, and
> then the hitter on his downswing hits the net with his arm/hand?  Is this a
> net infraction?

> I'm getting conflicting answers that say, once the ball hits the ground or
> is flying out of the court, the play is dead.

IF and only if you have a referee to determine when the play is dead,
that's fairly universally true.

Quote:
> Others say there is a "continuation" rule that states because he is
> still in motion from his swing, it still counts as a net infraction
> from continuation of play.  

That's true too.  That was in the USAV beach rulebook for years.  And
it was a good rule.

Quote:
>I can't find anything in the USAV 2004-2005 rule book about this.

Unfortunately, they've done away with all the good USAV Beach rules
that covered this wide variety of play that includes (god forbid) that
people might actually play competitive volleyball without a referee.

In the past few years, the FIVB as the international governing body of
our sport has beaten the USAV a little bit into complying more closely
with FIVB rules and not writing their own rulebook (USAV was the only
national governing body doing this).  

The good news is we all have one set of rules more of less the world
over to point to as a standard, but the unfortunate part of that is
that good stuff like the continuation rule, and the goodies for 3's
4's and 6's, and using the post as the antenna when you don't have
antennae, and the gooey goodness that accomodates a way to handle
grassroots and tournament play without referees (where 98% of all
volleyball is played I'd wager) got lost in that effort.  

So now, like so many things, (even if you have it in black and white
in a rulebook), not all people agree on which rulebook to use all the
time, so this is one of those things that you might wanna bring up and
agree on before play begins if at all possible.  Add it to the list of
match format, what's legal on the first ball, verifying what's going
on with set-overs, and all that junk that tends to lead to gum beating
on the beach.

Best Regards,
--

http://www.vbref.org/

 
 
 

Question of a Rule (beach) - can't find in rule book - continuation of play

Post by Bub and Lesle » Wed, 10 Aug 2005 09:44:23

I thought the "continuation" rule was for games that did not have a ref.
(wait for an informed answer from someone else).  My pick-up group plays
with this rule.
No arguments - well fewer.

Jim


Quote:
> What happens if a person spikes a ball, the ball hits the ground first,
> and
> then the hitter on his downswing hits the net with his arm/hand?  Is this
> a
> net infraction?
> I'm getting conflicting answers that say, once the ball hits the ground or
> is flying out of the court, the play is dead.  Others say there is a
> "continuation" rule that states because he is still in motion from his
> swing, it still counts as a net infraction from continuation of play.  I
> can't find anything in the USAV 2004-2005 rule book about this.


 
 
 

Question of a Rule (beach) - can't find in rule book - continuation of play

Post by Mike » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:05:54

The good news is we all have one set of rules more of less the world
over to point to as a standard, but the unfortunate part of that is
that good stuff like the continuation rule, and the goodies for 3's 4's
and 6's, and using the post as the antenna when you don't have
antennae, and the gooey goodness that accomodates a way to handle
grassroots and tournament play without referees (where 98% of all
volleyball is played I'd wager) got lost in that effort.

But you can still get a really good set of 2's rules, If I do say so
myself at:
http://members.aol.com/jsvba/rules_2player.html

which address your concern.

Even with a single ref, it is almost impossible to see the ball hit the
ground and the player hit the net with any degree of accuracy and since
we don't normally use whistles even with 2 refs it really doesn't help.

for outdoor rules for 2's, 3's or 4's try
http://members.aol.com/jsvba/rules.html

Hope it helps

 
 
 

Question of a Rule (beach) - can't find in rule book - continuation of play

Post by Glenste » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:55:32

Ha....that was going to be my next question "what's legal on the first
ball"?  Funny you mentioned it.  That also brings lots of arguments.  Does
it have to be hard driven or not?  Can you double hit "any" first ball over
(except the serve).3
That also seems to vary depending upon who you play with.


Quote:

> > What happens if a person spikes a ball, the ball hits the ground first,
and
> > then the hitter on his downswing hits the net with his arm/hand?  Is
this a
> > net infraction?

> > I'm getting conflicting answers that say, once the ball hits the ground
or
> > is flying out of the court, the play is dead.

> IF and only if you have a referee to determine when the play is dead,
> that's fairly universally true.

> > Others say there is a "continuation" rule that states because he is
> > still in motion from his swing, it still counts as a net infraction
> > from continuation of play.

> That's true too.  That was in the USAV beach rulebook for years.  And
> it was a good rule.

> >I can't find anything in the USAV 2004-2005 rule book about this.

> Unfortunately, they've done away with all the good USAV Beach rules
> that covered this wide variety of play that includes (god forbid) that
> people might actually play competitive volleyball without a referee.

> In the past few years, the FIVB as the international governing body of
> our sport has beaten the USAV a little bit into complying more closely
> with FIVB rules and not writing their own rulebook (USAV was the only
> national governing body doing this).

> The good news is we all have one set of rules more of less the world
> over to point to as a standard, but the unfortunate part of that is
> that good stuff like the continuation rule, and the goodies for 3's
> 4's and 6's, and using the post as the antenna when you don't have
> antennae, and the gooey goodness that accomodates a way to handle
> grassroots and tournament play without referees (where 98% of all
> volleyball is played I'd wager) got lost in that effort.

> So now, like so many things, (even if you have it in black and white
> in a rulebook), not all people agree on which rulebook to use all the
> time, so this is one of those things that you might wanna bring up and
> agree on before play begins if at all possible.  Add it to the list of
> match format, what's legal on the first ball, verifying what's going
> on with set-overs, and all that junk that tends to lead to gum beating
> on the beach.

> Best Regards,
> --

> http://www.vbref.org/

 
 
 

Question of a Rule (beach) - can't find in rule book - continuation of play

Post by Todd Haverko » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:42:11

Quote:

> Ha....that was going to be my next question "what's legal on the
> first ball"?  Funny you mentioned it.  That also brings lots of
> arguments.  Does it have to be hard driven or not?

I have a whole page dedicated to this baby:
        http://vbref.org/ref/hard-driven.html

If you play by USAV/FIVB beach rules, you can momentarily lift/push or
double the ball (including finger action) on the beach IF it's
hard-driven.  See usavolleyball.org beach rules section under
officials/rules for details.  Rule 14ish or so.s

Note: a serve regardless of speed can never be considered a hard
driven attack for the purpose of this rule.

Quote:
>Can you double hit "any" first ball over (except the serve).

You can make multiple contacts with any first ball in one attempt to
play it IF you don't use fingers to direct the ball

On the beach, this is a big no-no if you use fingers to direct the
ball (i.e. set).  If you have the guts to take a first ball with a
hand set on the beach, it better be completely friggin perfect.   And
even then you should feel really guilty about it.  :-)

Quote:
> That also seems to vary depending upon who you play with.

Best Regards,
--

http://www.vbref.org/