outdoor quads rules question

outdoor quads rules question

Post by Mark 'the harem' Frie » Wed, 08 Sep 1999 04:00:00


This newsgroups seems to come up with some great answers to rules
questions so I thought I would pose mine that happened this weekend in a
Outdoor Reverse Coed quads tournament this weekend.

The incident happened in a VERY tight game I believe the score was 14-11
our lead with the other team serving. Our setter set me very tight to
the net, I thought about chipping but instead I went for the long broad
jump and hit it has hard as I could off the block. The girls on the
other side of the net saw my approach and the ball and position her
block appropriately until she said she saw that I was obviously going to
come under the net ( which I did ) after I hit the ball. Is this
interference?

Her contention was that since she had to move before the ball reached
her that was indeed interference to avoid the collision

The ref at the time ruled that the contact that occurred after my hit
was pretty inconsequential since she had moved to avoid the hit.

When I did come under the net it was more of a dive under the net much
like a baseball player dives into a base, not a charge like in football.

I'm interested to hear what y'all think
--
Official Motor Vehicle Placement Technician of the 1999-2000 NBA world
champions

Liberty is a Lie

 
 
 

outdoor quads rules question

Post by Bruno Wolff I » Wed, 08 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

> The incident happened in a VERY tight game I believe the score was 14-11
> our lead with the other team serving. Our setter set me very tight to
> the net, I thought about chipping but instead I went for the long broad
> jump and hit it has hard as I could off the block. The girls on the
> other side of the net saw my approach and the ball and position her
> block appropriately until she said she saw that I was obviously going to
> come under the net ( which I did ) after I hit the ball. Is this
> interference?

Next time she should drop her block and not jump. After you break your ankle
she won't have to worry about playing against you again for a while.

 
 
 

outdoor quads rules question

Post by Mark 'the harem' Frie » Wed, 08 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:


> > The incident happened in a VERY tight game I believe the score was 14-11
> > our lead with the other team serving. Our setter set me very tight to
> > the net, I thought about chipping but instead I went for the long broad
> > jump and hit it has hard as I could off the block. The girls on the
> > other side of the net saw my approach and the ball and position her
> > block appropriately until she said she saw that I was obviously going to
> > come under the net ( which I did ) after I hit the ball. Is this
> > interference?

> Next time she should drop her block and not jump. After you break your ankle
> she won't have to worry about playing against you again for a while.

uh..no ***head... but thanks.

It's called broad jumping.. my ankles never saw the other side of the net.  just my torso...
but whatever.

 
 
 

outdoor quads rules question

Post by mike_dal » Thu, 09 Sep 1999 04:00:00

If I remember correctly if you interfered with her play on the ball or
forced her to change what she was going to do
then interference should of been called.



Quote:
> This newsgroups seems to come up with some great answers to rules
> questions so I thought I would pose mine that happened this weekend in a
> Outdoor Reverse Coed quads tournament this weekend.

> The incident happened in a VERY tight game I believe the score was 14-11
> our lead with the other team serving. Our setter set me very tight to
> the net, I thought about chipping but instead I went for the long broad
> jump and hit it has hard as I could off the block. The girls on the
> other side of the net saw my approach and the ball and position her
> block appropriately until she said she saw that I was obviously going to
> come under the net ( which I did ) after I hit the ball. Is this
> interference?

> Her contention was that since she had to move before the ball reached
> her that was indeed interference to avoid the collision

> The ref at the time ruled that the contact that occurred after my hit
> was pretty inconsequential since she had moved to avoid the hit.

> When I did come under the net it was more of a dive under the net much
> like a baseball player dives into a base, not a charge like in football.

> I'm interested to hear what y'all think
> --
> Official Motor Vehicle Placement Technician of the 1999-2000 NBA world
> champions

> Liberty is a Lie

 
 
 

outdoor quads rules question

Post by Bruno Wolff I » Thu, 09 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

> It's called broad jumping.. my ankles never saw the other side of the net.  just my torso...
> but whatever.

Staying down and in your way should still work. She isn't likely to get hurt
if she doesn't jump and for sure she will get the interference call if you
bump into her. If she gets out of the way and your side wins the point, it
just encourages your out of control play.

In unreffed play, the normal thing to do is call intereference ("lookout"
usuallt works well) on yourself when you realize you screwed up and are going
to end up endangering other players. This way the other player can get out of
the way without worrying about losing an interference call.

 
 
 

outdoor quads rules question

Post by Todd » Thu, 09 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:



> > This newsgroups seems to come up with some great answers to rules
> > questions so I thought I would pose mine that happened this weekend in a
> > Outdoor Reverse Coed quads tournament this weekend.

> > The incident happened in a VERY tight game I believe the score was
> > 14-11 our lead with the other team serving. Our setter set me very
> > tight to the net, I thought about chipping but instead I went for
> > the long broad jump and hit it has hard as I could off the
> > block. The girls on the other side of the net saw my approach and
> > the ball and position her block appropriately until she said she
> > saw that I was obviously going to come under the net ( which I did
> > ) after I hit the ball. Is this interference?

> > Her contention was that since she had to move before the ball
> > reached her that was indeed interference to avoid the collision

> > The ref at the time ruled that the contact that occurred after my
> > hit was pretty inconsequential since she had moved to avoid the
> > hit.

> If I remember correctly if you interfered with her play on the ball
> or forced her to change what she was going to do then interference
> should of been called.

Mike's recollections concur with my gut feeling as well as the
information I'm slowly getting from USAV Beach National officials.
Interference does not require contact.  The thrust of the interference
rule is to take care of situations like this in which an advantage is
gained even though the foot position is otherwise legal.

This makes sense if you think about it.  Otherwise reckless plays like
this could repeatedly intimidate blockers into sub-optimal positioning
for fear of their own ankles.

<rant type="personal">
I might qualify for "butt-head" status for saying it, but Mark and I
would have exchanged some heated words if he attempted such a
maneuver opposite the net from me.  There's no excuse for sacrificing
someone else's safety for a rally, even at game point.
</rant>

Best Regards,
--

USAV Jr. National Referee, Great Lakes Region, Palatine, IL
Todd's Volleyball Referee Page http://www.io.com/~tdh/vball/
"So you're a Ref and an engineer? Oh that explains it...."

 
 
 

outdoor quads rules question

Post by Andrew Crabtre » Thu, 09 Sep 1999 04:00:00

It doesn't matter what the rules say.  Don't go under the
net.  Especially against somebody you (presumably)
substantially outweigh.  If you know the other team isn't
blocking at all then you get some leeway.  Otherwise, you
should prepare for people taking stands that will leave you
injured if you come under.

andy

 
 
 

outdoor quads rules question

Post by Caspe » Thu, 09 Sep 1999 04:00:00

if you play that team again, spike the hell out of the ball at her...she'll
stay out of the way. i've seen it done in my coed league. my son who has
played in the U.S. and Canada used that tactic against an opposing female
that thought she could handle it. she stayed out of his way the rest of the
game

--


Quote:
> This newsgroups seems to come up with some great answers to rules
> questions so I thought I would pose mine that happened this weekend in a
> Outdoor Reverse Coed quads tournament this weekend.

> The incident happened in a VERY tight game I believe the score was 14-11
> our lead with the other team serving. Our setter set me very tight to
> the net, I thought about chipping but instead I went for the long broad
> jump and hit it has hard as I could off the block. The girls on the
> other side of the net saw my approach and the ball and position her
> block appropriately until she said she saw that I was obviously going to
> come under the net ( which I did ) after I hit the ball. Is this
> interference?

> Her contention was that since she had to move before the ball reached
> her that was indeed interference to avoid the collision

> The ref at the time ruled that the contact that occurred after my hit
> was pretty inconsequential since she had moved to avoid the hit.

> When I did come under the net it was more of a dive under the net much
> like a baseball player dives into a base, not a charge like in football.

> I'm interested to hear what y'all think
> --
> Official Motor Vehicle Placement Technician of the 1999-2000 NBA world
> champions

> Liberty is a Lie

 
 
 

outdoor quads rules question

Post by Mark Frie » Thu, 09 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> If I remember correctly if you interfered with her play on the ball or
> forced her to change what she was going to do
> then interference should of been called.

I have since talked it over with friends and the ref involved.  The ref
maintained he didn't think the blocker made 'any' adjustments, basically
although there was contact it was inconsequential. I personally believe that
if she saw a guy my size coming at her ( I'm 5'8 190) THAT'S GOT TO BE IN THE
BACK OF HER MIND, thus causing her to move to one side or there other putting
me in the wrong and giving her a point.

Thank you for your response. interesting debate nonetheless.

--
Official Motor Vehicle Placement Technician of the 1999-2000 NBA world
champions

Liberty is a Lie

 
 
 

outdoor quads rules question

Post by mike_dal » Thu, 09 Sep 1999 04:00:00

And when said female either blocks ya or stays down and digs your a**
how will that affect your metality?

Most of the women at the higher levels by me would not be intimidated at
all, even if you six packed
them.  They would try to pop back up and be ready for ya again.  All the
time screaming that someone
better be playing that ball to the team.  ;)


Quote:
> if you play that team again, spike the hell out of the ball at
her...she'll
> stay out of the way. i've seen it done in my coed league. my son who has
> played in the U.S. and Canada used that tactic against an opposing female
> that thought she could handle it. she stayed out of his way the rest of
the
> game

> --


> > This newsgroups seems to come up with some great answers to rules
> > questions so I thought I would pose mine that happened this weekend in a
> > Outdoor Reverse Coed quads tournament this weekend.

> > The incident happened in a VERY tight game I believe the score was 14-11
> > our lead with the other team serving. Our setter set me very tight to
> > the net, I thought about chipping but instead I went for the long broad
> > jump and hit it has hard as I could off the block. The girls on the
> > other side of the net saw my approach and the ball and position her
> > block appropriately until she said she saw that I was obviously going to
> > come under the net ( which I did ) after I hit the ball. Is this
> > interference?

> > Her contention was that since she had to move before the ball reached
> > her that was indeed interference to avoid the collision

> > The ref at the time ruled that the contact that occurred after my hit
> > was pretty inconsequential since she had moved to avoid the hit.

> > When I did come under the net it was more of a dive under the net much
> > like a baseball player dives into a base, not a charge like in football.

> > I'm interested to hear what y'all think
> > --
> > Official Motor Vehicle Placement Technician of the 1999-2000 NBA world
> > champions

> > Liberty is a Lie

 
 
 

outdoor quads rules question

Post by Mark Frie » Thu, 09 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:




> > > This newsgroups seems to come up with some great answers to rules
> > > questions so I thought I would pose mine that happened this weekend in a
> > > Outdoor Reverse Coed quads tournament this weekend.

> > > The incident happened in a VERY tight game I believe the score was
> > > 14-11 our lead with the other team serving. Our setter set me very
> > > tight to the net, I thought about chipping but instead I went for
> > > the long broad jump and hit it has hard as I could off the
> > > block. The girls on the other side of the net saw my approach and
> > > the ball and position her block appropriately until she said she
> > > saw that I was obviously going to come under the net ( which I did
> > > ) after I hit the ball. Is this interference?

> > > Her contention was that since she had to move before the ball
> > > reached her that was indeed interference to avoid the collision

> > > The ref at the time ruled that the contact that occurred after my
> > > hit was pretty inconsequential since she had moved to avoid the
> > > hit.

> > If I remember correctly if you interfered with her play on the ball
> > or forced her to change what she was going to do then interference
> > should of been called.

> Mike's recollections concur with my gut feeling as well as the
> information I'm slowly getting from USAV Beach National officials.
> Interference does not require contact.  The thrust of the interference
> rule is to take care of situations like this in which an advantage is
> gained even though the foot position is otherwise legal.

> This makes sense if you think about it.  Otherwise reckless plays like
> this could repeatedly intimidate blockers into sub-optimal positioning
> for fear of their own ankles.

> <rant type="personal">
> I might qualify for "butt-head" status for saying it, but Mark and I
> would have exchanged some heated words if he attempted such a
> maneuver opposite the net from me.  There's no excuse for sacrificing
> someone else's safety for a rally, even at game point.
> </rant>

> Best Regards,
> --

> USAV Jr. National Referee, Great Lakes Region, Palatine, IL
> Todd's Volleyball Referee Page http://www.io.com/~tdh/vball/
> "So you're a Ref and an engineer? Oh that explains it...."

Excellent explanation.. The call was definintely blown.. although do you mind If
I pick your brain further?

1) Does the ref have any discretion on the rule or is it automatic?(i.e. As soon
as I come under the net and make contact with any individual is it considered
interference or does the whereabouts of the ball come into play.)

2) Can the ref ask the blocker if she felt "threatened" by the hitter who came
under the net or is it up to him to determine if she was reacting to percieved
the threat? (of course the blocker on most occasions would answer yes.. but
either way I'm curious)

.....oh god .. I feel like I'm in an episode of  ' The Pratice'....

Where's Ally Mcbeal when you need her.... oops wrong show.

 
 
 

outdoor quads rules question

Post by Laszl » Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:


> <big snip>

> Excellent explanation.. The call was definintely blown.. although do you mind If
> I pick your brain further?

> 1) Does the ref have any discretion on the rule or is it automatic?(i.e. As soon
> as I come under the net and make contact with any individual is it considered
> interference or does the whereabouts of the ball come into play.)

As I recall, contact by itself does not necessarily constitute interference
and interference does not require contact.   Hope that helps.

Quote:
> 2) Can the ref ask the blocker if she felt "threatened" by the hitter who came
> under the net or is it up to him to determine if she was reacting to percieved
> the threat? (of course the blocker on most occasions would answer yes.. but
> either way I'm curious)

The ref should be able to make a call based upon what he sees, if he needs to
ask he's asking for trouble, e.g. copntroversy.  If the player says to the ref
unsolicited "No I wasn't interfered with" as in the case of an honor call he
will simply let it go and everyone plays on.

Quote:
> .....oh god .. I feel like I'm in an episode of  ' The Pratice'....

Practice, practice, practice...

Quote:
> Where's Ally Mcbeal when you need her.... oops wrong show.

Who's Ally McBeal?   Must be a new up and coming volleyball player - haven't
heard of her yet...

-LAZ

<I want my EmptyV...>

 
 
 

outdoor quads rules question

Post by Todd » Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> Excellent explanation.. The call was definintely blown.. although do
> you mind If I pick your brain further?

Sure, with the caveat that the pickings are thin!  8-P

Quote:
> 1) Does the ref have any discretion on the rule or is it
>    automatic?(i.e. As soon as I come under the net and make contact
>    with any individual is it considered interference or does the
>    whereabouts of the ball come into play.)

The discretion is in their judgement of what interference encompasses.
Contact isn't necessarily interference (provided the foot position is
legal in indoor, for instance), nor does interference require contact
(as in this case of a recklessly broad-jumping attacker).  The
question that the official must answer is "Did this action prevent the
opponent from making a play on the ball?"

Quote:
> 2) Can the ref ask the blocker if she felt "threatened" by the
>    hitter who came under the net or is it up to him to determine if
>    she was reacting to percieved the threat? (of course the blocker
>    on most occasions would answer yes.. but either way I'm curious)

No, I don't think that wouldn't be a recommended officiating
technique.

The referee would call it as he/she saw it.  If the referee erred on
the side of permissiveness (i.e. I as a blocker was threatened by the
hitter's reckless approach, but the referee did not call/notice the
interference), then I as the blocker would be quick to tell my captain
to have a not-so-quiet chat with the official.  This would both alert
the official to the interference as well as let the other team know
that such an action is indeed illegal.

Best Regards,
--

USAV Jr. National Referee, Great Lakes Region, Palatine, IL
Todd's Volleyball Referee Page http://www.io.com/~tdh/vball/
"So you're a Ref and an engineer? Oh that explains it...."

 
 
 

outdoor quads rules question

Post by Christian Die » Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:00:00

First of all this is to Mike:
Mike, I whole heartedly agree with you that I don't know of ANY UPPER level
women players who are scared of anyone; even a man.  If they are true
athletes and competitors they are there to win no matter the cost and are
willing to sacrafice their own body to do it.  They understand that in order
to win big you have to play big.  So to whoever said that that woman stayed
out of your son's way... she must not be an upper level player or she didn't
want to win.

Secondly to everyone:
I see that Mark Fries's little question here has created some tension
amongst us fellow volleyball players.  I'm sure that Mark, at that time,
thought it was a good idea and a very athletic thing to do to attack the
ball the way he did.  I assume that he thought it was legal and the players
on the other side weren't going to attempt to block him so he went for the
attack.  I can tell from Mark's demeanor in his writing that he is a very
considerate man and he didn't mean any harm in his attempt at the ball and
if he knew the outcome he probably would have "chipped" the ball.  What I'm
getting at here is that we are all volleyball players here, some better than
others, and we should share our knowledge and experience in the attempt of
creating better competition.  We shouldn't be shouting out harsh remarks
towards each other for this kind of stuff.  Mark, I'm sure, has learned that
he probably shouldn't have done what he did and he probably will take care
in his future tournaments.

Mark and to everyone:
Let's set the record straight.  Interference can be called whether or not
there is contact, and like everyone else has said, contact doesn't
necessarily mean interference.  If you bumped someone while still on your
side of the net while they had an opportunity to make a play (i.e.,
knuckling or blocking the ball) then you have interefered with play.  Plain
and simple.  If you clearly were under the net (I know there are no lines
under the net for call under, but.....) with you hand or any part of your
body and a player has to move to avoid you then you have interfered with
their ability to make a play on the ball...intereference should be called on
you.  Plain and simple.  If you didn't go under, or were planer to the
bottom of the net, and you did not contact the other person then you have
not interfered and if the opponent moved in fear that you would have hit
them then it is their loss.  BOTTOM LINE....you should have just apologize
for MAYBE being under and asked the ref what he thought.  In any case
apologizing usually settles the nerves of the opponent and opposing team.
Volleyball is supposed to be a fun at any level so let all just play ball
without being petty and making snide remarks.

Christian Diep (a.k.a. Sandman)

Quote:

>And when said female either blocks ya or stays down and digs your a**
>how will that affect your metality?

>Most of the women at the higher levels by me would not be intimidated at
>all, even if you six packed
>them.  They would try to pop back up and be ready for ya again.  All the
>time screaming that someone
>better be playing that ball to the team.  ;)



>> if you play that team again, spike the hell out of the ball at
>her...she'll
>> stay out of the way. i've seen it done in my coed league. my son who has
>> played in the U.S. and Canada used that tactic against an opposing female
>> that thought she could handle it. she stayed out of his way the rest of
>the
>> game