pursuit rule rules question

pursuit rule rules question

Post by Bill Tucke » Wed, 11 Apr 2001 01:30:58


Hi:  (I'm up for a new CAP certification.....so here's a question:)
Topic....New "Pursuit Rule"

I was at a DivIII Men's match.  The first contact on Team R shanked..and was
heading out of bounds ....outside the antenna....to Team S's out of bounds
area.

Player R2 dived under the guy wires and ref stand to try to bring the ball
back, apparently.

Player S4 is standing outside...perhaps ready to hit.....near the
soon-dropping ball

OK: here's the questions:

1) Someone explain the pursuit rule...when can you...when cant
you....?purpose?

2) What's the rules on "inference".
2a) What happens is R2 slide to make an attempt...and S4 got in his way???
intentionally?  unintentionally?
2b) What happens if R2 bashed into S4?
2c) What ref hand signals coincide with what violations, if any.

BTW: in 1 5 game match.....I saw this "odd" pursuit business happen at least
4 times.  (That's for the folks who told me...."don't worry about this
rule...you'll never see it...oops)

:) Thank you.

--

Thank you,
Bill Tucker
Coordinator of Technology - Admissions
Vassar College
Tel:    845-437-7845
Fax:    845-437-7063
800#: 800-827-7270

 
 
 

pursuit rule rules question

Post by Kevin Lenti » Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:16:58

Quote:

> I was at a DivIII Men's match.  The first contact on Team R shanked..and was
> heading out of bounds ....outside the antenna....to Team S's out of bounds
> area.

So far so good...

Quote:
> Player R2 dived under the guy wires and ref stand to try to bring the ball
> back, apparently.

Apart from the court being illegal 'cos of the guy wires, so far so
good (sorry, couldn't resist, ignore that comment)

Quote:
> Player S4 is standing outside...perhaps ready to hit.....near the
> soon-dropping ball
> OK: here's the questions:
> 1) Someone explain the pursuit rule...when can you...when cant
> you....?purpose?

If a ball is hit past the net, outside of the crossing space, heading
into the opponent's free zone, then that ball can be retrieved, again
outside of the corssing space within the team's 3 hits.

The opponent may not interfere with that action.

Quote:
> 2) What's the rules on "inference".

You shouldn't infer anything, only call what you see. Sorry again. I'm
in a weird mood. Interference I presume...

Quote:
> 2a) What happens is R2 slide to make an attempt...and S4 got in his way???
> intentionally?  unintentionally?

Fault on S4 if he interferes. Intention irrelevant.

Quote:
> 2b) What happens if R2 bashed into S4?

Unless it was an unsportsmanlike act (which it doesn't sound like
here) then nothing.

Quote:
> 2c) What ref hand signals coincide with what violations, if any.

Ooh, good one. Any failure of R2 to get it back, is "OUT". S4 touching
it is either OUT or just signal the other team, no fault signal. I
can't decide.

Quote:
> BTW: in 1 5 game match.....I saw this "odd" pursuit business happen at least
> 4 times.  (That's for the folks who told me...."don't worry about this
> rule...you'll never see it...oops)

Never trust people who tell you that. You know the old saying: The
problem with million to one chances is that they happen nine times out
of ten!

NB As my sig warns - my comments relate to FIVB rules. I presume that
when the USA adopted this one, they copied it pretty much from the
FIVB although I wouldn't be surprised if there were subtle differences
- especially in the area of 'intention'.
--
< NB Unless otherwise stated, all my comments on rules refer to FIVB rules >
  [======================================================================]

  [                     Australian National Referee                      ]

  [  KeyId: 06808EED    FingerPrint: 6024308DE1F84314  811B511DBA6FD596  ]
  [======================================================================]

 
 
 

pursuit rule rules question

Post by Todd Haverko » Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:17:56

Quote:


> > I was at a DivIII Men's match.  The first contact on Team R shanked..and was
> > heading out of bounds ....outside the antenna....to Team S's out of bounds
> > area.

> So far so good...

> > Player R2 dived under the guy wires and ref stand to try to bring the ball
> > back, apparently.

> Apart from the court being illegal 'cos of the guy wires, so far so
> good (sorry, couldn't resist, ignore that comment)

Don't feel guilty.  The guy wire mention troubles us too.

Quote:
> > 1) Someone explain the pursuit rule...when can you...when cant
> > you....?purpose?

> If a ball is hit past the net, outside of the crossing space, heading
> into the opponent's free zone, then that ball can be retrieved, again
> outside of the corssing space within the team's 3 hits.

> The opponent may not interfere with that action.

This is the same rule that many of the US men's collegiate conferences
use.  However, this is not part of the USA Volleyball ruleset.  In
USAV indoor rules, the ball is dead as soon as it completely passes
beyond the plane of the net wholely or partially outside the crossing
space.  As mentioned here previously, this is in the interest of
safety at a) local tournaments where facilities don't have adequate
room around the standards, and b) at our national tournaments where
water barrels are used to secure temporary court systems erected on
convention center floors.

Quote:
> NB As my sig warns - my comments relate to FIVB rules. I presume that
> when the USA adopted this one, they copied it pretty much from the
> FIVB although I wouldn't be surprised if there were subtle differences
> - especially in the area of 'intention'.

USAV doesn't touch it in the indoor rulebook--ball's dead once it
clears the plane of the net, while college men use the FIVB pursuit
rule, depending on the collegiate conference.  

In USAV beach 2's, the pursuit rule is straight from FIVB beach rules.

--

http://www.vbref.org/

 
 
 

pursuit rule rules question

Post by Jacob Gillett » Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:09:02

Quote:

> NB As my sig warns - my comments relate to FIVB rules. I presume that
> when the USA adopted this one, they copied it pretty much from the
> FIVB although I wouldn't be surprised if there were subtle differences
> - especially in the area of 'intention'.

USA Volleyball didnt adpot this.  I dont see them ever adoptiong this as
long as we have the 'barrels' at the national events.  It is too much of a
safety issue.  College did adopt it as they dont have such concerns.
 
 
 

pursuit rule rules question

Post by Calimer » Wed, 18 Apr 2001 23:57:17



Quote:

> > I was at a DivIII Men's match.  The first contact on Team R shanked..and
was
> > heading out of bounds ....outside the antenna....to Team S's out of
bounds
> > area.

> So far so good...

> > Player R2 dived under the guy wires and ref stand to try to bring the
ball
> > back, apparently.

> Apart from the court being illegal 'cos of the guy wires, so far so
> good (sorry, couldn't resist, ignore that comment)

> > Player S4 is standing outside...perhaps ready to hit.....near the
> > soon-dropping ball

> > OK: here's the questions:

> > 1) Someone explain the pursuit rule...when can you...when cant
> > you....?purpose?

> If a ball is hit past the net, outside of the crossing space, heading
> into the opponent's free zone, then that ball can be retrieved, again
> outside of the corssing space within the team's 3 hits.

> The opponent may not interfere with that action.

> > 2) What's the rules on "inference".

> You shouldn't infer anything, only call what you see. Sorry again. I'm
> in a weird mood. Interference I presume...

> > 2a) What happens is R2 slide to make an attempt...and S4 got in his
way???
> > intentionally?  unintentionally?

> Fault on S4 if he interferes. Intention irrelevant.

> > 2b) What happens if R2 bashed into S4?

> Unless it was an unsportsmanlike act (which it doesn't sound like
> here) then nothing.

> > 2c) What ref hand signals coincide with what violations, if any.

> Ooh, good one. Any failure of R2 to get it back, is "OUT". S4 touching
> it is either OUT or just signal the other team, no fault signal. I
> can't decide.

If S4 touches the ball when the R2 tries to play it back to it's own field -
outside the crossing space - or S4 hits R2 to prevent him from playing the
ball, in both cases the reff gives the sign for touch.

Arjan

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> > BTW: in 1 5 game match.....I saw this "odd" pursuit business happen at
least
> > 4 times.  (That's for the folks who told me...."don't worry about this
> > rule...you'll never see it...oops)

> Never trust people who tell you that. You know the old saying: The
> problem with million to one chances is that they happen nine times out
> of ten!

> NB As my sig warns - my comments relate to FIVB rules. I presume that
> when the USA adopted this one, they copied it pretty much from the
> FIVB although I wouldn't be surprised if there were subtle differences
> - especially in the area of 'intention'.
> --
> < NB Unless otherwise stated, all my comments on rules refer to FIVB rules

>   [======================================================================]

>   [                     Australian National Referee                      ]

>   [  KeyId: 06808EED    FingerPrint: 6024308DE1F84314  811B511DBA6FD596  ]
>   [======================================================================]

 
 
 

pursuit rule rules question

Post by Todd Haverko » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 02:11:57

Quote:

> If S4 touches the ball when the R2 tries to play it back to it's own
> field - outside the crossing space - or S4 hits R2 to prevent him
> from playing the ball, in both cases the reff gives the sign for
> touch.

I defer to the FIVB folk on this, but add this piece of info:

The correct signal for any such interference in USAV rules is signal
10, pointing at the centerline.  If we allowed pursuit, it would be
reasonable to think that we'd this for interference beyond the
centerline outside the crossing space.

Also, as I understand, it's not necessarily a fault for S4 to touch
the ball.  S4 is not required to move out of the way, but he's not
allowed to intentionally interfere either.

--

http://www.vbref.org/