'01 Super Air Pricing..

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by tmblu » Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:26:36


Hi,

The season has ended as far as most dealers are concerned, but we know that
the season never ends, just start wearing more to protect yourself from the
cold (In CA anyways). I was wondering how to get the best price and where to
go to get the best price. I am between  a Tige' and the Super Air. I got a
price of around $46K fully loaded for the Super Air. I'm wondering what I
can do as far as negotiations?

Thanks

Tory
Bay Area, CA...
A .com person, without the .com money..

 
 
 

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by da.. » Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:06:48

Hey Tory.

We are neighbors...

A good time and place to buy a boat is at the boat show at the cow
palace in mid January. At that show, you can expect to get the boat at
about 10% below retail with a few extras (heater and shower) thrown in
by the manufacturer.

I think you are assured a good deal and thats doing good. Boats are not
like cars. The volume is lower and, in the end, you want your boat
dealer to stay in business (car dealers are another story).

Buying it in January will set you up for your dream boat in the spring.

Dane
Redwood City, CA.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by tmblu » Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:16:31

What I heard from  a local Natique dealer is the price goes up a little for
the show (maybe so they can then deal?).. Agreed about the difference
between a boat and car dealer. But I think giving the dealer a bit of a
profit makes sense where as they generally want a larger piece of profit off
that one boat. The problem is I have yet to find invoice pricing for boats
yet, so have really no idea where to start thinking a good price should be.

Nada has things up to 2000 but again it is low, average and high.

Thanks

Tory

Quote:

> Hey Tory.

> We are neighbors...

> A good time and place to buy a boat is at the boat show at the cow
> palace in mid January. At that show, you can expect to get the boat at
> about 10% below retail with a few extras (heater and shower) thrown in
> by the manufacturer.

> I think you are assured a good deal and thats doing good. Boats are not
> like cars. The volume is lower and, in the end, you want your boat
> dealer to stay in business (car dealers are another story).

> Buying it in January will set you up for your dream boat in the spring.

> Dane
> Redwood City, CA.

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.


 
 
 

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by Tom Rut » Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:54:23

Quote:

>...The problem is I have yet to find invoice pricing for boats
>yet, so have really no idea where to start thinking a good price should be.

Let's assume the boat costs the dealer, oh (let's pull out a
number from the air shall we?)... 32K/MSRP of 45K.  What do
you think is a fair offer?

Tom

 
 
 

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by tmblu » Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:34:03

I sure hope that is a number out of a hat.. A $13K premium on a single boat
sounds awfully high.

I'm going to pull a number out of my hat of 11%, for fees, tax, doc, etc.
Am I close?

$38K x 11% = $41,000.00, that is a $6K profit on a single boat (that is
almost a 20% premium for this boat, which is still too high!But 40% is
ridiculous). Are most boats MSRP set at $13K above invoice? How many boats
are sold in year, on average? Same class of boat, I don't care about a canoe
or a big fishing rig. Sport boats, CC, Ski Cen, Malibu, Master Craft,
Moomba, Toyota, Sanger, etc.etc.

I think your point is made. I almost still can't answer this question. There
are more numbers that I would need.  But it would give me a basis to
negotiate.

If the dealer did buy the boat for $32K, I think a $4800 profit would be
enough for them, that is double what I would give a car dealer for a car
(actually more then double). Again, for them to stay in business, how many
do they sell a year, how many at MSRP?

Keep these coming, with your help, I'll know what I would be willing to give
a dealer for there service (selling me a boat).

I made the furniture place give me 20% off of my furniture (no I don't know
how much my furniture cost to make, but I have an idea of what the markup
is, in the furniture business, I have no idea in the boat business). Asking
for a 20% discount off of a $46K super air, I don't think so. But what is
fair? Without the base numbers of what they are getting these boats for, I
can't answer that question. Without any kind of idea on how much it costs
for a boat to be made, I haven't a clue what is fair.

Next..

Thanks

Tory


Quote:

> >...The problem is I have yet to find invoice pricing for boats
> >yet, so have really no idea where to start thinking a good price should
be.

> Let's assume the boat costs the dealer, oh (let's pull out a
> number from the air shall we?)... 32K/MSRP of 45K.  What do
> you think is a fair offer?

> Tom

 
 
 

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by Mark Kovalcso » Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:15:11

Quote:

> If the dealer did buy the boat for $32K, I think a $4800 profit would be
> enough for them, that is double what I would give a car dealer for a car
> (actually more then double). Again, for them to stay in business, how many
> do they sell a year, how many at MSRP?

OK. Let's do some math....

Let's say a dealership sells oh 30 boats like you mention a year. I think that
is a representative number of a large number of dealerships.

What you are suggesting would be a total GROSS profit of 144,000.00 if all the
boats were loaded up top of the line boats and none were "economy" boats.

Let's say it is a small place and has 3 employees.  Well if they shared that
equally they could make a whopping 48K a year...  But wait  what about
overhead.  Building lease, equipment, gas, insurance... Hmmm

Let's say overhead for a lease, equipment, insurance and payments on a buisness
loan are 3500 a month. Let's subtract another 42,000 from that.  OK  102K split
three ways. But wait there is gas, turn over training, benefits like health
insurance etc...  Hey alright now they are making 34K a year...  But wait there
is more. Advertising, supporting tournaments. I hope you get the picture.  I
think these numbers are VERY conservative and I think you can see that a margin
like you just mentioned can't work.  You do want the dealership to exist a few
months from now to service your boat don't you ?

My point is that thinking that you can compare the profit a car dealer makess
when they typically turn over hundreds of cars a year and have well over an
order of magnitude more sales.

Now I will grant you that there are some dealerships out there selling
tournaments ski boats just to round out their offerings. They don't give much to
the sport and they do large volume in other boats. They may be able to negotiate
more, but they generally don't know what the hell they are selling. I have seen
this first hand.

Now you compare that with many of the dealers out there that really love this
sport and who give back to the sport and I think you will see they MOST of them
are not making the great profit you may think they are.  If selling ski boats
were that profitable or easy you wouldn't see so many dealerships fail.

--

Mark Kovalcson
http://www.perfectpull.com
Waterski Training Equipment

 
 
 

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by tmblu » Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:33:12

Mark,

See that is a number I didn't have, 30 boats a year..  That sounds awfully
low, but again these are the numbers that I need to understand what a good
price for both the dealer and I.

Yes I want them to stay in business.

I figured it was more like 100 boats a year.8.xxx boats a month, 2 boats a
week.. Again if this is high then yes your numbers reflect that a boat
dealer won't make it. That I can now understand.

But not all boats would be sold at this "special" stingy buyer price, there
are maybe 2/3 of the boats that would go out at full pop.. So let's say 10
were sold at a special price  (I think I understand that $4800 is not going
to be sufficient with these low volumes), so let's say $6250.00, where are
we?  $62500 (off season), now the other 20 sold at full pop (face it there
are people that will pay what ever is put in front of them and during peak
season).. $260K- now we are at $322,500.00 a year.. hmmm, that still sounds
low. Again, I don't have the numbers to figure out what a boat dealer needs
to make in order to stay in business and how much a boat dealer needs to
make in order to make a good life for themselves. Not Gates life, but high
paid silicon valley director life..

But 3 sales people split the profits equally, I don't think so, the owner is
going to get a premium as it's his ***more so at risk then his sales
people (am I wrong?) Again, I don't know what expenses dealerships have to
deal with.

So I'm starting to understand more.. These are the types of numbers that I
need in order to go in and plop a decent wad down for this boat. I don't
know this industry and what it needs to survive. But we are on the right
track to educate me as well as other readers.

Keep it coming..

Thanks fer sure, this is what I needed!!!

Tory

I'm not a total cheap arse but like to understand where my money is going.


Quote:

> > If the dealer did buy the boat for $32K, I think a $4800 profit would be
> > enough for them, that is double what I would give a car dealer for a car
> > (actually more then double). Again, for them to stay in business, how
many
> > do they sell a year, how many at MSRP?

> OK. Let's do some math....

> Let's say a dealership sells oh 30 boats like you mention a year. I think
that
> is a representative number of a large number of dealerships.

> What you are suggesting would be a total GROSS profit of 144,000.00 if all
the
> boats were loaded up top of the line boats and none were "economy" boats.

> Let's say it is a small place and has 3 employees.  Well if they shared
that
> equally they could make a whopping 48K a year...  But wait  what about
> overhead.  Building lease, equipment, gas, insurance... Hmmm

> Let's say overhead for a lease, equipment, insurance and payments on a
buisness
> loan are 3500 a month. Let's subtract another 42,000 from that.  OK  102K
split
> three ways. But wait there is gas, turn over training, benefits like
health
> insurance etc...  Hey alright now they are making 34K a year...  But wait
there
> is more. Advertising, supporting tournaments. I hope you get the picture.
I
> think these numbers are VERY conservative and I think you can see that a
margin
> like you just mentioned can't work.  You do want the dealership to exist a
few
> months from now to service your boat don't you ?

> My point is that thinking that you can compare the profit a car dealer
makess
> when they typically turn over hundreds of cars a year and have well over
an
> order of magnitude more sales.

> Now I will grant you that there are some dealerships out there selling
> tournaments ski boats just to round out their offerings. They don't give
much to
> the sport and they do large volume in other boats. They may be able to
negotiate
> more, but they generally don't know what the hell they are selling. I have
seen
> this first hand.

> Now you compare that with many of the dealers out there that really love
this
> sport and who give back to the sport and I think you will see they MOST of
them
> are not making the great profit you may think they are.  If selling ski
boats
> were that profitable or easy you wouldn't see so many dealerships fail.

> --

> Mark Kovalcson
> http://SportToday.org/
> Waterski Training Equipment

 
 
 

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by Tony Walte » Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:25:06

Try Central Valley Marine in Campbell (in the San Jose area).  They are also
a Sanger dealer and we bought our Sanger there last year and it was a good
dealer to do business with.  As far as the "numbers go"; if the dealer is
selling all they can get their hands on then they are going to sell it at
their price not yours.  Nonetheless Central Valley did seem to have the best
price.

Tony

Quote:
> Mark,

> See that is a number I didn't have, 30 boats a year..  That sounds awfully
> low, but again these are the numbers that I need to understand what a good
> price for both the dealer and I.

> Yes I want them to stay in business.

> I figured it was more like 100 boats a year.8.xxx boats a month, 2 boats a
> week.. Again if this is high then yes your numbers reflect that a boat
> dealer won't make it. That I can now understand.

> But not all boats would be sold at this "special" stingy buyer price,
there
> are maybe 2/3 of the boats that would go out at full pop.. So let's say 10
> were sold at a special price  (I think I understand that $4800 is not
going
> to be sufficient with these low volumes), so let's say $6250.00, where are
> we?  $62500 (off season), now the other 20 sold at full pop (face it there
> are people that will pay what ever is put in front of them and during peak
> season).. $260K- now we are at $322,500.00 a year.. hmmm, that still
sounds
> low. Again, I don't have the numbers to figure out what a boat dealer
needs
> to make in order to stay in business and how much a boat dealer needs to
> make in order to make a good life for themselves. Not Gates life, but high
> paid silicon valley director life..

> But 3 sales people split the profits equally, I don't think so, the owner
is
> going to get a premium as it's his ***more so at risk then his sales
> people (am I wrong?) Again, I don't know what expenses dealerships have to
> deal with.

> So I'm starting to understand more.. These are the types of numbers that I
> need in order to go in and plop a decent wad down for this boat. I don't
> know this industry and what it needs to survive. But we are on the right
> track to educate me as well as other readers.

> Keep it coming..

> Thanks fer sure, this is what I needed!!!

> Tory

> I'm not a total cheap arse but like to understand where my money is going.




> > > If the dealer did buy the boat for $32K, I think a $4800 profit would
be
> > > enough for them, that is double what I would give a car dealer for a
car
> > > (actually more then double). Again, for them to stay in business, how
> many
> > > do they sell a year, how many at MSRP?

> > OK. Let's do some math....

> > Let's say a dealership sells oh 30 boats like you mention a year. I
think
> that
> > is a representative number of a large number of dealerships.

> > What you are suggesting would be a total GROSS profit of 144,000.00 if
all
> the
> > boats were loaded up top of the line boats and none were "economy"
boats.

> > Let's say it is a small place and has 3 employees.  Well if they shared
> that
> > equally they could make a whopping 48K a year...  But wait  what about
> > overhead.  Building lease, equipment, gas, insurance... Hmmm

> > Let's say overhead for a lease, equipment, insurance and payments on a
> buisness
> > loan are 3500 a month. Let's subtract another 42,000 from that.  OK
102K
> split
> > three ways. But wait there is gas, turn over training, benefits like
> health
> > insurance etc...  Hey alright now they are making 34K a year...  But
wait
> there
> > is more. Advertising, supporting tournaments. I hope you get the
picture.
> I
> > think these numbers are VERY conservative and I think you can see that a
> margin
> > like you just mentioned can't work.  You do want the dealership to exist
a
> few
> > months from now to service your boat don't you ?

> > My point is that thinking that you can compare the profit a car dealer
> makess
> > when they typically turn over hundreds of cars a year and have well over
> an
> > order of magnitude more sales.

> > Now I will grant you that there are some dealerships out there selling
> > tournaments ski boats just to round out their offerings. They don't give
> much to
> > the sport and they do large volume in other boats. They may be able to
> negotiate
> > more, but they generally don't know what the hell they are selling. I
have
> seen
> > this first hand.

> > Now you compare that with many of the dealers out there that really love
> this
> > sport and who give back to the sport and I think you will see they MOST
of
> them
> > are not making the great profit you may think they are.  If selling ski
> boats
> > were that profitable or easy you wouldn't see so many dealerships fail.

> > --

> > Mark Kovalcson
> > http://SportToday.org/
> > Waterski Training Equipment

 
 
 

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by da.. » Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:44:11

I still contend that you will do as good as you can do at the boat show
in January. You are also very likely to get nowhere when attempting to
seek "your" price. Nautiques are in great demand and the dealers are
likely to care little about what you want to pay.

Your local boat dealer needs to make a living in this expensive area.
Get a decent price, let your local shop make a buck and enjoy the boat.

I worked a deal with Central Valley Marine last January at the boat
show as I priced and test rode boats from the big three. The deal I was
offered was as follows.

2000 SuperAir, cd player, ballast tanks & tower.
coast guard kit
2 mooring lines
2 fenders
2 tie downs
boat cover
depth finder
air/water temp
bimini on tower
20 service
heater
shower
tandem trailer

$43,480 + tax/lic + delivery = $47,415

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by Big Dav1 » Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:21:26

Quote:
>2000 SuperAir, cd player, ballast tanks & tower.
>coast guard kit
>2 mooring lines
>2 fenders
>2 tie downs
>boat cover
>depth finder
>air/water temp
>bimini on tower
>20 service
>heater
>shower
>tandem trailer

>$43,480 + tax/lic + delivery = $47,415

Curious , where is the upcharge for fuel injection? Or did CC finally make FI
standard?  
 
 
 

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by Doug Meredit » Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:13:29

Standard engine is the 275 HP Throttle body EFI engine.  At a price of 47K,
I would "guess" that the GT-40 had to be in there somewhere.

CC is selling every boat they can build.  Their dealers are yelling for
more.  In that kind of market, right or wrong, they are going to get top
dollar.  If you don't buy it, someone else will.

Doug


Quote:

> Curious , where is the upcharge for fuel injection? Or did CC finally make
FI
> standard?

 
 
 

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by Tom Rut » Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:28:48

On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:15:11 -0400, Mark Kovalcson

...

Quote:
>Let's say a dealership sells oh 30 boats like you mention a year. I think that
>is a representative number of a large number of dealerships.

I'd suggest thirty boats a year is a "hobby business".  The pure
inboard dealers up here are typically in that class (IOW, they have a
day job to pay the bills).  

And don't forget maintenance work, warranty work, repairs, and
accessories (silly  markups there).

...

Quote:
>Now you compare that with many of the dealers out there that really love this
>sport and who give back to the sport and I think you will see they MOST of them
>are not making the great profit you may think they are.  If selling ski boats
>were that profitable or easy you wouldn't see so many dealerships fail.

BOATS are not that profitable  -- period.  There are several hundred
mfgs.. A YEAR that go out of business.

Tom

 
 
 

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by da.. » Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:49:34

Yes. The quote was for the GT40 EFI. Should have noted that!

Dane



Quote:
> Standard engine is the 275 HP Throttle body EFI engine.  At a price
of 47K,
> I would "guess" that the GT-40 had to be in there somewhere.

> CC is selling every boat they can build.  Their dealers are yelling
for
> more.  In that kind of market, right or wrong, they are going to get
top
> dollar.  If you don't buy it, someone else will.

> Doug



> > Curious , where is the upcharge for fuel injection? Or did CC
finally make
> FI
> > standard?

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
 
 
 

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by John Q. Sindel » Wed, 13 Sep 2000 03:19:59


: Let's say a dealership sells oh 30 boats like you mention a year. I think that
: is a representative number of a large number of dealerships.

: OK  102K split
: three ways. But wait there is gas, turn over training, benefits like health
: insurance etc...  Hey alright now they are making 34K a year...  But wait there
: is more.

So why does it take 3 people to sell .83 boats a month?!?  I would think
you could run several other businesses during the huge lag time of not
making sales.

--

Always remember that I have taken more out of *** than ***
has taken out of me.
      --Winston Churchill

 
 
 

'01 Super Air Pricing..

Post by John Jones BSN, » Wed, 13 Sep 2000 02:42:27

Tom is right.  Dealers for anything, trains, planes, automobiles, boats,
make the most at the service center.  This is how those large volume
auto places work.  They know a percent will be back for service.  PWC
are the same.  Many sell you the PWC cheap but know you will be back for
oil, gear, parts, service.