Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by I.. » Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:00:00


Do you remember when you all wrote this?  Well I do.  Just wanted to let
all of you know they make EXTENDED PYLONS for PWC's now.  Just take a
look at Overton's, and you will find the "Riva Air Pylon" for PWC's.  I
guess yall were wrong.  I could have been a millionaire.  Below are just
a few of  the responses I got when I posted this thread.  I guess that
me and the others who thought this was a good idea are not stupid
bastards, jackasses, or idiots after all.

Later,
Brock

You people are really annoying. Any of you stupid bastards that think a
pwc isn't gonna flip with an extended pylon should leave this newsgroup

NOW, and go find some kind of "alt.dumbass" newsgroup or something. What

ails you people? Hey Brock, you jackass, how do you know that spacely is

NOT a pro? God, you people are so clueless. Go away.

You have got to be kidding!  The first time the wakeboarder made a
hard cut the PWC would flip over.  That is why many boat builders
don't recomend them on full size boats...and boats are more stable
than a PWC.  You don't have to take even high school physics to
figure this one out!

TJSSKIER/Tim

I don't think things are really that rude yet.
But what is being suggested is quite danderous, so you SHOULD
expect some strong condemnation of it. 3-5 feet of leverage on a PWC
that
can be turned over with a person standing on the edge while
boarding the craft. You may board from behind, but that doesn't
mean the PWC is stable, it means that you have learned that
boarding from the side doesn't work because the thing isn't very stable.

You don't take hard cuts, but what about the others
you pull that don't realize that the PWC is on the verge of
tipping if you pull a bit when out wide on a cut. What about
the person that does pull hardest behind the wake, gets wide and then
bites it and while trying to recover holds the handle a bit long
and hauls you over. What about the first time you are pulling
someone through a turnaround and they get out on a whip and
haul you over.

This is basic physics, and unlike a trip to the moon, this is
really easily figured out either on a piece of paper or with a little
practical demonstration while standing still.

You are proposing something that is dangerous.

tj

You don't think it would tip over?

A personal watercraft has far far lower stability than a full size ski
boat.
As it is you have heard boat manufacturers state their reservations
about
these pylon extensions on their boats. Here in the newsgroups you have
heard
a number of us express concerns about stability problems as well as
strain problems on the original pylon. All of this is on rather heavy
duty,
huge by comparison, full size ski boats.

I would suggest that your post borders on the dangerous to suggest
that a PWC would not tip over.

How about a "seat of the pants" comparison of stability...
Most PWC's either will, or will nearly tip over when the operator
stands on one side. COmpare that with a ski boat which can easily handle

5 or 6 people standing on one side.

tj

With suggestions like these you *do* deserve no boat at all.

-steve-

Have your friend standing on the back of your PWC take your 35lb bags
and hold them out to the side. See what happens even at arms length.
Your added bags are only contributing a vertical force which have no
bearing on roll.

Unlike others in this thread I don't think an extended pylon is
dangerous on a PWC. It is not dangerous because it will not work. You
will get up, cut to the side and your Polaris will roll over. You and
your driver will get wet, unhook the pole, and let it sink to the bottom

of the river.

-steve-

What does speed have to do with it? This is all about leverage. If the
pylon where high enough it would probably flip the jet ski just pulling
the wakeboarder out of the water. In any case any once the boarder gets
out to the side and makes any pull at all, the jet ski will roll over.
Just look how far you can pull around a jet ski with the toe eye low to
the water.

-steve-

It aint about stability. Its about a horizontal force being applied to a

point above the PWC. Its an idea that will not work.

-steve-

 
 
 

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by I.. » Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Do you remember when you all wrote this?  Well I do.  Just wanted to let
all of you know they make EXTENDED PYLONS for PWC's now.  Just take a
look at Overton's, and you will find the "Riva Air Pylon" for PWC's.  I
guess yall were wrong.  I could have been a millionaire.  Below are just
a few of  the responses I got when I posted this thread.  I guess that
me and the others who thought this was a good idea are not stupid
bastards, jackasses, or idiots after all.

Later,
Brock

You people are really annoying. Any of you stupid bastards that think a
pwc isn't gonna flip with an extended pylon should leave this newsgroup

NOW, and go find some kind of "alt.dumbass" newsgroup or something. What

ails you people? Hey Brock, you jackass, how do you know that spacely is

NOT a pro? God, you people are so clueless. Go away.

You have got to be kidding!  The first time the wakeboarder made a
hard cut the PWC would flip over.  That is why many boat builders
don't recomend them on full size boats...and boats are more stable
than a PWC.  You don't have to take even high school physics to
figure this one out!

TJSSKIER/Tim

I don't think things are really that rude yet.
But what is being suggested is quite danderous, so you SHOULD
expect some strong condemnation of it. 3-5 feet of leverage on a PWC
that
can be turned over with a person standing on the edge while
boarding the craft. You may board from behind, but that doesn't
mean the PWC is stable, it means that you have learned that
boarding from the side doesn't work because the thing isn't very stable.

You don't take hard cuts, but what about the others
you pull that don't realize that the PWC is on the verge of
tipping if you pull a bit when out wide on a cut. What about
the person that does pull hardest behind the wake, gets wide and then
bites it and while trying to recover holds the handle a bit long
and hauls you over. What about the first time you are pulling
someone through a turnaround and they get out on a whip and
haul you over.

This is basic physics, and unlike a trip to the moon, this is
really easily figured out either on a piece of paper or with a little
practical demonstration while standing still.

You are proposing something that is dangerous.

tj

You don't think it would tip over?

A personal watercraft has far far lower stability than a full size ski
boat.
As it is you have heard boat manufacturers state their reservations
about
these pylon extensions on their boats. Here in the newsgroups you have
heard
a number of us express concerns about stability problems as well as
strain problems on the original pylon. All of this is on rather heavy
duty,
huge by comparison, full size ski boats.

I would suggest that your post borders on the dangerous to suggest
that a PWC would not tip over.

How about a "seat of the pants" comparison of stability...
Most PWC's either will, or will nearly tip over when the operator
stands on one side. COmpare that with a ski boat which can easily handle

5 or 6 people standing on one side.

tj

With suggestions like these you *do* deserve no boat at all.

-steve-

Have your friend standing on the back of your PWC take your 35lb bags
and hold them out to the side. See what happens even at arms length.
Your added bags are only contributing a vertical force which have no
bearing on roll.

Unlike others in this thread I don't think an extended pylon is
dangerous on a PWC. It is not dangerous because it will not work. You
will get up, cut to the side and your Polaris will roll over. You and
your driver will get wet, unhook the pole, and let it sink to the bottom

of the river.

-steve-

What does speed have to do with it? This is all about leverage. If the
pylon where high enough it would probably flip the jet ski just pulling
the wakeboarder out of the water. In any case any once the boarder gets
out to the side and makes any pull at all, the jet ski will roll over.
Just look how far you can pull around a jet ski with the toe eye low to
the water.

-steve-

It aint about stability. Its about a horizontal force being applied to a

point above the PWC. Its an idea that will not work.

-steve-

 
 
 

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by I.. » Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Do you remember when you all wrote this?  Well I do.  Just wanted to let
all of you know they make EXTENDED PYLONS for PWC's now.  Just take a
look at Overton's, and you will find the "Riva Air Pylon" for PWC's.  I
guess yall were wrong.  I could have been a millionaire.  Below are just
a few of  the responses I got when I posted this thread.  I guess that
me and the others who thought this was a good idea are not stupid
bastards, jackasses, or idiots after all.

Later,
Brock

You people are really annoying. Any of you stupid bastards that think a
pwc isn't gonna flip with an extended pylon should leave this newsgroup

NOW, and go find some kind of "alt.dumbass" newsgroup or something. What

ails you people? Hey Brock, you jackass, how do you know that spacely is

NOT a pro? God, you people are so clueless. Go away.

You have got to be kidding!  The first time the wakeboarder made a
hard cut the PWC would flip over.  That is why many boat builders
don't recomend them on full size boats...and boats are more stable
than a PWC.  You don't have to take even high school physics to
figure this one out!

TJSSKIER/Tim

I don't think things are really that rude yet.
But what is being suggested is quite danderous, so you SHOULD
expect some strong condemnation of it. 3-5 feet of leverage on a PWC
that
can be turned over with a person standing on the edge while
boarding the craft. You may board from behind, but that doesn't
mean the PWC is stable, it means that you have learned that
boarding from the side doesn't work because the thing isn't very stable.

You don't take hard cuts, but what about the others
you pull that don't realize that the PWC is on the verge of
tipping if you pull a bit when out wide on a cut. What about
the person that does pull hardest behind the wake, gets wide and then
bites it and while trying to recover holds the handle a bit long
and hauls you over. What about the first time you are pulling
someone through a turnaround and they get out on a whip and
haul you over.

This is basic physics, and unlike a trip to the moon, this is
really easily figured out either on a piece of paper or with a little
practical demonstration while standing still.

You are proposing something that is dangerous.

tj

You don't think it would tip over?

A personal watercraft has far far lower stability than a full size ski
boat.
As it is you have heard boat manufacturers state their reservations
about
these pylon extensions on their boats. Here in the newsgroups you have
heard
a number of us express concerns about stability problems as well as
strain problems on the original pylon. All of this is on rather heavy
duty,
huge by comparison, full size ski boats.

I would suggest that your post borders on the dangerous to suggest
that a PWC would not tip over.

How about a "seat of the pants" comparison of stability...
Most PWC's either will, or will nearly tip over when the operator
stands on one side. COmpare that with a ski boat which can easily handle

5 or 6 people standing on one side.

tj

With suggestions like these you *do* deserve no boat at all.

-steve-

Have your friend standing on the back of your PWC take your 35lb bags
and hold them out to the side. See what happens even at arms length.
Your added bags are only contributing a vertical force which have no
bearing on roll.

Unlike others in this thread I don't think an extended pylon is
dangerous on a PWC. It is not dangerous because it will not work. You
will get up, cut to the side and your Polaris will roll over. You and
your driver will get wet, unhook the pole, and let it sink to the bottom

of the river.

-steve-

What does speed have to do with it? This is all about leverage. If the
pylon where high enough it would probably flip the jet ski just pulling
the wakeboarder out of the water. In any case any once the boarder gets
out to the side and makes any pull at all, the jet ski will roll over.
Just look how far you can pull around a jet ski with the toe eye low to
the water.

-steve-

It aint about stability. Its about a horizontal force being applied to a

point above the PWC. Its an idea that will not work.

-steve-

 
 
 

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by I.. » Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Do you remember when you all wrote this?  Well I do.  Just wanted to let
all of you know they make EXTENDED PYLONS for PWC's now.  Just take a
look at Overton's, and you will find the "Riva Air Pylon" for PWC's.  I
guess yall were wrong.  I could have been a millionaire.  Below are just
a few of  the responses I got when I posted this thread.  I guess that
me and the others who thought this was a good idea are not stupid
bastards, jackasses, or idiots after all.

Later,
Brock

You people are really annoying. Any of you stupid bastards that think a
pwc isn't gonna flip with an extended pylon should leave this newsgroup

NOW, and go find some kind of "alt.dumbass" newsgroup or something. What

ails you people? Hey Brock, you jackass, how do you know that spacely is

NOT a pro? God, you people are so clueless. Go away.

You have got to be kidding!  The first time the wakeboarder made a
hard cut the PWC would flip over.  That is why many boat builders
don't recomend them on full size boats...and boats are more stable
than a PWC.  You don't have to take even high school physics to
figure this one out!

TJSSKIER/Tim

I don't think things are really that rude yet.
But what is being suggested is quite danderous, so you SHOULD
expect some strong condemnation of it. 3-5 feet of leverage on a PWC
that
can be turned over with a person standing on the edge while
boarding the craft. You may board from behind, but that doesn't
mean the PWC is stable, it means that you have learned that
boarding from the side doesn't work because the thing isn't very stable.

You don't take hard cuts, but what about the others
you pull that don't realize that the PWC is on the verge of
tipping if you pull a bit when out wide on a cut. What about
the person that does pull hardest behind the wake, gets wide and then
bites it and while trying to recover holds the handle a bit long
and hauls you over. What about the first time you are pulling
someone through a turnaround and they get out on a whip and
haul you over.

This is basic physics, and unlike a trip to the moon, this is
really easily figured out either on a piece of paper or with a little
practical demonstration while standing still.

You are proposing something that is dangerous.

tj

You don't think it would tip over?

A personal watercraft has far far lower stability than a full size ski
boat.
As it is you have heard boat manufacturers state their reservations
about
these pylon extensions on their boats. Here in the newsgroups you have
heard
a number of us express concerns about stability problems as well as
strain problems on the original pylon. All of this is on rather heavy
duty,
huge by comparison, full size ski boats.

I would suggest that your post borders on the dangerous to suggest
that a PWC would not tip over.

How about a "seat of the pants" comparison of stability...
Most PWC's either will, or will nearly tip over when the operator
stands on one side. COmpare that with a ski boat which can easily handle

5 or 6 people standing on one side.

tj

With suggestions like these you *do* deserve no boat at all.

-steve-

Have your friend standing on the back of your PWC take your 35lb bags
and hold them out to the side. See what happens even at arms length.
Your added bags are only contributing a vertical force which have no
bearing on roll.

Unlike others in this thread I don't think an extended pylon is
dangerous on a PWC. It is not dangerous because it will not work. You
will get up, cut to the side and your Polaris will roll over. You and
your driver will get wet, unhook the pole, and let it sink to the bottom

of the river.

-steve-

What does speed have to do with it? This is all about leverage. If the
pylon where high enough it would probably flip the jet ski just pulling
the wakeboarder out of the water. In any case any once the boarder gets
out to the side and makes any pull at all, the jet ski will roll over.
Just look how far you can pull around a jet ski with the toe eye low to
the water.

-steve-

It aint about stability. Its about a horizontal force being applied to a

point above the PWC. Its an idea that will not work.

-steve-

 
 
 

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by david lawrence baxte » Sun, 27 Apr 1997 04:00:00

        If this is the same thing that I saw I wouldn;t consider it an
extended pylon.  The idea of an extended pylon that put the rope up
higher will not work.  This is just a pylon for a jet ski not an extended
one.  This only puts the rope a couple of inches higher than when it is
attached to the back.  If that is what you call an extended pylon then
it might work.  If you raise that then you will have problems.  Nice try
though.

david


Quote:

> Do you remember when you all wrote this?  Well I do.  Just wanted to let
> all of you know they make EXTENDED PYLONS for PWC's now.  Just take a
> look at Overton's, and you will find the "Riva Air Pylon" for PWC's.  I
> guess yall were wrong.  I could have been a millionaire.  Below are just
> a few of  the responses I got when I posted this thread.  I guess that
> me and the others who thought this was a good idea are not stupid
> bastards, jackasses, or idiots after all.

 
 
 

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by I.. » Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Take a look at Overton's catalog ('97-#4).  The one I am looking at
extends up 3 feet and 7 inches.  Not just a couple of inches.  Sounds
like an extended pylon to me.  You sure this won't work?  Are you really
sure?  I'll have problems??????  I don't think so!!!  Nice try
though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

>         If this is the same thing that I saw I wouldn;t consider it
> an
> extended pylon.  The idea of an extended pylon that put the rope up
> higher will not work.  This is just a pylon for a jet ski not an
> extended
> one.  This only puts the rope a couple of inches higher than when it
> is
> attached to the back.  If that is what you call an extended pylon
> then
> it might work.  If you raise that then you will have problems.  Nice
> try
> though.

> david


> > Do you remember when you all wrote this?  Well I do.  Just wanted
> to let
> > all of you know they make EXTENDED PYLONS for PWC's now.  Just
> take a
> > look at Overton's, and you will find the "Riva Air Pylon" for
> PWC's.  I
> > guess yall were wrong.  I could have been a millionaire.  Below
> are just
> > a few of  the responses I got when I posted this thread.  I guess
> that
> > me and the others who thought this was a good idea are not stupid
> > bastards, jackasses, or idiots after all.

 
 
 

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by david lawrence baxte » Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:00:00

        I still don't really think that it is an extended pylon.   This
would still prpbably put the rope lower than on a ski boat with a
standard pylon.  You won't get the benefit of the upward pull.  I still
think that it would be real hard to drive and dangerous.  Just skiing I
can pull a jet ski into a spinout.  With our boat and an extended pylon you
can feel the boat being pulled more.  Think of how much bigger a boat is
compared to a jet ski.  If you rigged up a jet ski with a real extended
pylon that gave some upward pull I bet I would put the driver in teh
water without even trying.  Maybe if you put a huge fin under it like a
sail boat it might work.  Also an extended pylon would not help too much
since the wake is so small.

david


Quote:
> Take a look at Overton's catalog ('97-#4).  The one I am looking at
> extends up 3 feet and 7 inches.  Not just a couple of inches.  Sounds
> like an extended pylon to me.  You sure this won't work?  Are you really
> sure?  I'll have problems??????  I don't think so!!!  Nice try
> though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


> >         If this is the same thing that I saw I wouldn;t consider it
> > an
> > extended pylon.  The idea of an extended pylon that put the rope up
> > higher will not work.  This is just a pylon for a jet ski not an
> > extended
> > one.  This only puts the rope a couple of inches higher than when it
> > is
> > attached to the back.  If that is what you call an extended pylon
> > then
> > it might work.  If you raise that then you will have problems.  Nice
> > try
> > though.

> > david


 
 
 

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by Donna C. Oldfie » Tue, 29 Apr 1997 04:00:00

: Do you remember when you all wrote this?  Well I do.  Just wanted to let
: all of you know they make EXTENDED PYLONS for PWC's now.  Just take a
: look at Overton's, and you will find the "Riva Air Pylon" for PWC's.  I
: guess yall were wrong.  I could have been a millionaire.  Below are just
: a few of  the responses I got when I posted this thread.  I guess that
: me and the others who thought this was a good idea are not stupid
: bastards, jackasses, or idiots after all.

And just because it's being marketed and sold in the US, you think that
it's safe and effective.  You probably smoke cigarettes, too. :-)

I, personally, would still be wary of this product.  Are you going to try
it out?  If you do, please keep us posted regarding it's safety and
effectiveness.  I'm sure most of us would be interested.  At least I know
I would. (From a purely heuristic standpoint, mind you.  I don't intend to
trade my Ski Centurian in just yet.)

--
- Donna                 |  What you see and hear depends a good    

Hit It!                 |      it also depends on what sort of
                                 person you are.   -CS Lewis

 
 
 

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by acssys.. » Tue, 29 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> Do you remember when you all wrote this?  Well I do.  Just wanted to let
> all of you know they make EXTENDED PYLONS for PWC's now.  Just take a
> look at Overton's, and you will find the "Riva Air Pylon" for PWC's.  I
> guess yall were wrong.  I could have been a millionaire.  Below are just
> a few of  the responses I got when I posted this thread.  I guess that
> me and the others who thought this was a good idea are not stupid
> bastards, jackasses, or idiots after all.

> Later,
> Brock

Yea, or you could be bankrupt from one lawsuit it anything goes wrong.
I still agree with those that think they are a bad idea on pwcs.


 
 
 

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by Richard Duva » Wed, 30 Apr 1997 04:00:00

I wasn't involved on even recived the original discussion but, I am a very
Advanced wakeboarder (Hoochie glide's, Indie Tantrum's,etc...) and in my
oppinion an extended pylon on a pwc is IDIOCROCY.

Without a pylon I pull uver pwc on a hard cut(all you are doing is giving
the boarder more leverage). Also the only tricks worth doing behind a pwc
are air tricks due to the non-existant wake(which are all only technical
not Expression*height* related).

So due to this an  "Skylon" would make bairly any difference on a pwc &
create a great downfall on personal cutting ability(while on a boat they
are great I made my own actual 10' tripod style pylon, and not to mention
that on a hard cut you can tilt a 20' wide beam ski boat).

Nothing Personal though, Just an oppinion on the prouduct.

L8R

Method Man Dan

 
 
 

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by JayFo » Thu, 01 May 1997 04:00:00

Quote:
> Just skiing I can pull a jet ski into a spinout.

What kind of puny jet ski are you using??  If it's not a little puddle
jumper there should be no problem, especially causing the thing to spin
out!  Otherwise, as long as the driver has any sort of common sense they
can compensate for any pulling that the skier does.

Jay

 
 
 

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by david lawrence baxte » Thu, 01 May 1997 04:00:00

        Slalom skiing behind my friends older sea doo sp I pulled it into
a spin out.  I was cutting pretty hard and she was counter stearing.  She
wasn't having fun thought.  It was going al over the place.  I know that
the newer ones track better but they still don't track very well when you
are cutting hard.  It is fine for beginning skiiers but after that it is
*** both the skier and driver.  When you have a decent skier behind a
boat you can feel the pull.  Behind a jet ski it is much worse.

david


Quote:
> > Just skiing I can pull a jet ski into a spinout.

> What kind of puny jet ski are you using??  If it's not a little puddle
> jumper there should be no problem, especially causing the thing to spin
> out!  Otherwise, as long as the driver has any sort of common sense they
> can compensate for any pulling that the skier does.

> Jay

 
 
 

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by Eddy Celi » Thu, 01 May 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> > Just skiing I can pull a jet ski into a spinout.

> What kind of puny jet ski are you using??  If it's not a little puddle
> jumper there should be no problem, especially causing the thing to spin
> out!  Otherwise, as long as the driver has any sort of common sense they
> can compensate for any pulling that the skier does.

> Jay

My 9 year old girl could pull so hard I had to lean against her and
counter steer everytime she came out of a turn !
Even when on my kneeboard, I gave my wife such *** jerks she got
scared and I was trying to be a little carefull !

Eddy Celis

 
 
 

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by Shar » Sat, 03 May 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>Do you remember when you all wrote this?  Well I do.  Just wanted to let
>all of you know they make EXTENDED PYLONS for PWC's now.  Just take a
>look at Overton's, and you will find the "Riva Air Pylon" for PWC's.  I
>guess yall were wrong.  I could have been a millionaire.  Below are just
>a few of  the responses I got when I posted this thread.  I guess that
>me and the others who thought this was a good idea are not stupid
>bastards, jackasses, or idiots after all.

>Later,
>Brock

Number one ya sent the same message three times in four minutes.
Number two the  Riva Air Pylon in Overtons is is about 8 feet short of being
considered an extended pylon.  When boarding behind a boat with a regular
pylon the rope is on a downward angle, creating downward pull.  The purpose of
an extended pylon is to create upward pull thus allow you to get more
air/hang-time.  

Heres a test you can try to end this issue once and for all.  Get 2 PWC with 2
people on each,  and a wakeboard line.  Now each passanger gets one end of the
rope.   While traveling at about 20 mph with the pwc's somewhat parallel, have
the passangers stand and have one hold the rope overhead (about 8' up) rigidly
while the other one tugs.  If the pwc rocks then your theory is shot to hell,  
if it works I suppose we all can go to hell.

Later,
Shark    

 
 
 

Do they make an Extended Pylon for PWC's?????

Post by Greenrid » Thu, 15 May 1997 04:00:00

Unlike most of the people who responded in this thread I DON'T think that
a wakeboarder would tip over a PWC with an extended pylon when making a
hard cut.

The reason is that he (or she) would never get up!
Pulling from that high on a PWC would point the thing up at the sky and it
would never get planed out.