Vineman Int'l Report

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by David Robers » Mon, 12 Jun 1995 04:00:00


6-11-95  3:00PM

Pete Kain got hosed by Vineman Race Officials who neglect to check that
people are racking their bikes in their legal racks.  This particular
year, Pete Kain out swam, out biked, out ran, and legally racked his bike,
but did not win because someone DID NOT rack their bike legally.  I left
before the awards were over, and maybe that person got DQed, but I doubt
it.  Vineman officials should learn a lesson from this (they haven't yet),
and their bike to run transition area is lousy and continues to cause
inequities. The transition area should be set up to have race volunteers
take your bike as you enter the area, and you should be handed a run gear
bag, allowed to sit on a race provided chair and transition into your
running gear.  This way, everyone (EVERYONE) has the same transition
advantage, and there would be no inequities.  Northwind Promotions does
their races this way, and they have less volunteers per racers and it
works perfect.  Hawaii Ironman also is the leader in this innovation and
maybe before the Half and the Full Vineman The Vineman Race Officials
should re-think their transition area.  Sorry Pete. It's OK, we know who
is the fastest short course 30-34 year old in the country is.

By the way, the turnout appeared to be lousy (maybe less than 500 people
raced) and the swim course was about 1000 meters (approx top swim time
12:29).  Nice swim course Vineman!

Congratulations to Josh "Cabin Boy" Dapice, Stanford Boy who qualified for
the World Junior Team again!

 
 
 

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by Jeffrey Justi » Tue, 13 Jun 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

>> 6-11-95  3:00PM

>> Pete Kain got hosed by Vineman Race Officials who neglect to check that
>> people are racking their bikes in their legal racks.  This particular
>> year, Pete Kain out swam, out biked, out ran, and legally racked his bike,
>> but did not win because someone DID NOT rack their bike legally.  I left
>> before the awards were over, and maybe that person got DQed, but I doubt
>> it.  Vineman officials should learn a lesson from this (they haven't yet),
>> and their bike to run transition area is lousy and continues to cause
>> inequities. The transition area should be set up to have race volunteers
>> take your bike as you enter the area, and you should be handed a run gear
>> bag, allowed to sit on a race provided chair and transition into your
>> running gear.  This way, everyone (EVERYONE) has the same transition
>> advantage, and there would be no inequities.  Northwind Promotions does
>> their races this way, and they have less volunteers per racers and it
>> works perfect.  Hawaii Ironman also is the leader in this innovation and
>> maybe before the Half and the Full Vineman The Vineman Race Officials
>> should re-think their transition area.  Sorry Pete. It's OK, we know who
>> is the fastest short course 30-34 year old in the country is.

>> By the way, the turnout appeared to be lousy (maybe less than 500 people
>> raced) and the swim course was about 1000 meters (approx top swim time
>> 12:29).  Nice swim course Vineman!

>> Congratulations to Josh "Cabin Boy" Dapice, Stanford Boy who qualified for
>> the World Junior Team again!

My, my, what a mouth... I was there. Yep the swim was short, bu, overall,
it seemed a pretty cool race to me.  You want to use Northwind as an
example?
 Ah Yes, I remember when I had my first beer and then wrote a post....

JJ

 
 
 

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by Mike Llerand » Wed, 14 Jun 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

> 6-11-95  3:00PM

> Pete Kain got hosed by Vineman Race Officials who neglect to check that
> people are racking their bikes in their legal racks.  This particular
> year, Pete Kain out swam, out biked, out ran, and legally racked his bike,
> but did not win because someone DID NOT rack their bike legally.  I left
> before the awards were over, and maybe that person got DQed, but I doubt
> it.  Vineman officials should learn a lesson from this (they haven't yet),
> and their bike to run transition area is lousy and continues to cause
> inequities. The transition area should be set up to have race volunteers
> take your bike as you enter the area, and you should be handed a run gear
> bag, allowed to sit on a race provided chair and transition into your
> running gear.  This way, everyone (EVERYONE) has the same transition
> advantage, and there would be no inequities.  Northwind Promotions does
> their races this way, and they have less volunteers per racers and it
> works perfect.  Hawaii Ironman also is the leader in this innovation and
> maybe before the Half and the Full Vineman The Vineman Race Officials
> should re-think their transition area.  Sorry Pete. It's OK, we know who
> is the fastest short course 30-34 year old in the country is.

> By the way, the turnout appeared to be lousy (maybe less than 500 people
> raced) and the swim course was about 1000 meters (approx top swim time
> 12:29).  Nice swim course Vineman!

> Congratulations to Josh "Cabin Boy" Dapice, Stanford Boy who qualified for
> the World Junior Team again!

Easy there, tiger...ever try putting on a race, or even helping out?

And I don't know Mr. Dapice, but the LAST thing the Junior team needs is
another guy named "Josh"!  Go Big Cardinal!!

 
 
 

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by David Robers » Wed, 14 Jun 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

>> 6-11-95  3:00PM

>> Pete Kain got hosed by Vineman Race Officials who neglect to check that
>> people are racking their bikes in their legal racks.  This particular
>> year, Pete Kain out swam, out biked, out ran, and legally racked his bike,
>> but did not win because someone DID NOT rack their bike legally.  I left
>> before the awards were over, and maybe that person got DQed, but I doubt
>> it.  Vineman officials should learn a lesson from this (they haven't yet),
>> and their bike to run transition area is lousy and continues to cause
>> inequities. The transition area should be set up to have race volunteers
>> take your bike as you enter the area, and you should be handed a run gear
>> bag, allowed to sit on a race provided chair and transition into your
>> running gear.  This way, everyone (EVERYONE) has the same transition
>> advantage, and there would be no inequities.  Northwind Promotions does
>> their races this way, and they have less volunteers per racers and it
>> works perfect.  Hawaii Ironman also is the leader in this innovation and
>> maybe before the Half and the Full Vineman The Vineman Race Officials
>> should re-think their transition area.  Sorry Pete. It's OK, we know who
>> is the fastest short course 30-34 year old in the country is.

>> By the way, the turnout appeared to be lousy (maybe less than 500 people
>> raced) and the swim course was about 1000 meters (approx top swim time
>> 12:29).  Nice swim course Vineman!

>> Congratulations to Josh "Cabin Boy" Dapice, Stanford Boy who qualified for
>> the World Junior Team again!
>>My, my, what a mouth... I was there. Yep the swim was short, bu, overall,
>>it seemed a pretty cool race to me.  You want to use Northwind as an
>>example?
>>Ah Yes, I remember when I had my first beer and then wrote a post....
>>JJ

I remember when I wrote my first article too!  How long have you been
writing?  It can't be that long, I mean, your extensive experience doesn't
reflect in your editorials or your magazine!

What I am referring to Jeffrey is The Vineman has been around for a long
time and they continue to***up big time when it comes to transitions.
I was not comparing the Vineman to any Northwind races, however I will
point out that for the amount of people (volunteers) and the cost per race
(very cheap), Northwind has provided a much more equitable racing
environment than Vineman will ever.  Northwind does not try to "Get Rich"
with their races, because it's impossible.  

When a race official or (lack of a competent one) takes a victory away
from someone, something should be said, THAT'S ALL!

By the way, 220 has a lot of nice photos, but the journalism is off the back!

David Roberson

 
 
 

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by David Robers » Wed, 14 Jun 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

>> 6-11-95  3:00PM

>> Pete Kain got hosed by Vineman Race Officials who neglect to check that
>> people are racking their bikes in their legal racks.  This particular
>> year, Pete Kain out swam, out biked, out ran, and legally racked his bike,
>> but did not win because someone DID NOT rack their bike legally.  I left
>> before the awards were over, and maybe that person got DQed, but I doubt
>> it.  Vineman officials should learn a lesson from this (they haven't yet),
>> and their bike to run transition area is lousy and continues to cause
>> inequities. The transition area should be set up to have race volunteers
>> take your bike as you enter the area, and you should be handed a run gear
>> bag, allowed to sit on a race provided chair and transition into your
>> running gear.  This way, everyone (EVERYONE) has the same transition
>> advantage, and there would be no inequities.  Northwind Promotions does
>> their races this way, and they have less volunteers per racers and it
>> works perfect.  Hawaii Ironman also is the leader in this innovation and
>> maybe before the Half and the Full Vineman The Vineman Race Officials
>> should re-think their transition area.  Sorry Pete. It's OK, we know who
>> is the fastest short course 30-34 year old in the country is.

>> By the way, the turnout appeared to be lousy (maybe less than 500 people
>> raced) and the swim course was about 1000 meters (approx top swim time
>> 12:29).  Nice swim course Vineman!

>> Congratulations to Josh "Cabin Boy" Dapice, Stanford Boy who qualified for
>> the World Junior Team again!
>>My, my, what a mouth... I was there. Yep the swim was short, bu, overall,
>>it seemed a pretty cool race to me.  You want to use Northwind as an
>>example?
>>Ah Yes, I remember when I had my first beer and then wrote a post....
>>JJ

I remember when I wrote my first article too!  How long have you been
writing?  It can't be that long, I mean, your extensive experience doesn't
reflect in your editorials or your magazine!

What I am referring to Jeffrey is The Vineman has been around for a long
time and they continue to***up big time when it comes to transitions.
I was not comparing the Vineman to any Northwind races, however I will
point out that for the amount of people (volunteers) and the cost per race
(very cheap), Northwind has provided a much more equitable racing
environment than Vineman will ever.  Northwind does not try to "Get Rich"
with their races, because it's impossible.  

When a race official or (lack of a competent one) takes a victory away
from someone, something should be said, THAT'S ALL!

By the way, 220 has a lot of nice photos, but the journalism is off the back!

David Roberson

 
 
 

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by Janet Fa » Thu, 15 Jun 1995 04:00:00

: I remember when I wrote my first article too!  How long have you been
: writing?  It can't be that long, I mean, your extensive experience doesn't
: reflect in your editorials or your magazine!

: What I am referring to Jeffrey is The Vineman has been around for a long
: time and they continue to***up big time when it comes to transitions.
: I was not comparing the Vineman to any Northwind races, however I will
: point out that for the amount of people (volunteers) and the cost per race
: (very cheap), Northwind has provided a much more equitable racing
: environment than Vineman will ever.  Northwind does not try to "Get Rich"
: with their races, because it's impossible.  

: When a race official or (lack of a competent one) takes a victory away
: from someone, something should be said, THAT'S ALL!

: By the way, 220 has a lot of nice photos, but the journalism is off the back!

: David Roberson

David-

I try to put racing triathlons in perspective with the big picture:

I didn't loose a race due to the transition area at Vineman, but I do
have a roof over my head, enough food to eat, and my health.  I also feel
fortunate to have a race that is near my hometown to go to.

Janet

 
 
 

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by kur.. » Thu, 15 Jun 1995 04:00:00


[snip]

Yes, I remember when I had my first beer and then wrote a post....

Quote:

> >>JJ

> [snip]
> David Roberson

I also noticed that before the start of the race, despite a large crew of
apparently capable volunteers and several Tri-Fed "zebras", a nuber of
bikes were leaned up against the end of the bike racks on the exit aisle.
This leads to the question: what is the limiting factor in providing
adequate numbers of racks? Do we really need to be packed 12+ bikes to
each rack? Wildflower has an admirable system of labelling each rack
space, better than nothing, but I still got squeezed this year. In any
case, I could swear that Tri-Fed rules prohibit illegal racking. I realize
that the tri-Fed official (sorry, forgot the name) who spoke at the expo
on Sat. mentioned that they would prefer not to penalize racers in general
and age groupers in particular, apparently due to the negative impact it
might have on the repeat business for that race, a legitimate concern, I
guess, but wouldn't most of us get used to stricter enforcement pretty
quickly? The important thing is for the rules to be consistent for all,
and prevent unfair advantage. Isn't much of the drafting debate also about
uniform enforcement?
   Pete Kain rules my age group, and soon no doubt, the rest of you. He
may have been short changed in the calf dept., but I guess he gained it
back in heart. You can turn 35 anytime now, Pete. Aerobisaurus was the
word, I think. (thanks Pat Gilbert.) [Segue]
   Northwind puts on races that deliver in spades what I go to races for.
(Where are you Patrick?) For that matter, so does Russ Pugh. This is a
great course, and I enjoyed the race. Doesn't mean we can't point out
needed improvements, does it Jeffrey? I would gladly use Northwind, Scott
Tinley, or anyone else with a similar attitude towards the sport as an
example. Have you ever run a Northwind race? Big fun, nice people, fast
times, little obnoxiousness. A winning formula, if you ask me.
   As for valet bike parking, chairs, and so on, reminds me of my good
friend, who at the Q&A preceeding the 92? SJ Bud Light asked: "Will there
be a couch or anything where I can change my shoes?" to a roaring
response, you can imagine. The gravel does kind of suck though. Brought a
dishpan for a foot rinse this year. Did the trick nicely.


   "Can we talk?"     -Joan Rivers

   "Can't we all just get along?"     -Rodney King

 
 
 

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by Janet Faw » Thu, 15 Jun 1995 04:00:00


: I remember when I wrote my first article too!  How long have you been
: writing?  It can't be that long, I mean, your extensive experience doesn't
: reflect in your editorials or your magazine!

: What I am referring to Jeffrey is The Vineman has been around for a long
: time and they continue to***up big time when it comes to transitions.
: I was not comparing the Vineman to any Northwind races, however I will
: point out that for the amount of people (volunteers) and the cost per race
: (very cheap), Northwind has provided a much more equitable racing
: environment than Vineman will ever.  Northwind does not try to "Get Rich"
: with their races, because it's impossible.  

: When a race official or (lack of a competent one) takes a victory away
: from someone, something should be said, THAT'S ALL!

: By the way, 220 has a lot of nice photos, but the journalism is off the back!

: David Roberson

David-

I try to put racing triathlons in perspective with the big picture:

I didn't loose a race due to the transition area at Vineman, but I do
have a roof over my head, enough food to eat, and my health.  I also feel
fortunate to have a race that is near my hometown to go to.

Janet

 
 
 

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by Kuria » Thu, 15 Jun 1995 04:00:00



[snip]

Yes, I remember when I had my first beer and then wrote a post....

Quote:

> >>JJ

> [snip]
> David Roberson

I also noticed that before the start of the race, despite a large crew of
apparently capable volunteers and several Tri-Fed "zebras", a nuber of
bikes were leaned up against the end of the bike racks on the exit aisle.
This leads to the question: what is the limiting factor in providing
adequate numbers of racks? Do we really need to be packed 12+ bikes to
each rack? Wildflower has an admirable system of labelling each rack
space, better than nothing, but I still got squeezed this year. In any
case, I could swear that Tri-Fed rules prohibit illegal racking. I realize
that the tri-Fed official (sorry, forgot the name) who spoke at the expo
on Sat. mentioned that they would prefer not to penalize racers in general
and age groupers in particular, apparently due to the negative impact it
might have on the repeat business for that race, a legitimate concern, I
guess, but wouldn't most of us get used to stricter enforcement pretty
quickly? The important thing is for the rules to be consistent for all,
and prevent unfair advantage. Isn't much of the drafting debate also about
uniform enforcement?
   Pete Kain rules my age group, and soon no doubt, the rest of you. He
may have been short changed in the calf dept., but I guess he gained it
back in heart. You can turn 35 anytime now, Pete. Aerobisaurus was the
word, I think. (thanks Pat Gilbert.) [Segue]
   Northwind puts on races that deliver in spades what I go to races for.
(Where are you Patrick?) For that matter, so does Russ Pugh. This is a
great course, and I enjoyed the race. Doesn't mean we can't point out
needed improvements, does it Jeffrey? I would gladly use Northwind, Scott
Tinley, or anyone else with a similar attitude towards the sport as an
example. Have you ever run a Northwind race? Big fun, nice people, fast
times, little obnoxiousness. A winning formula, if you ask me.
   As for valet bike parking, chairs, and so on, reminds me of my good
friend, who at the Q&A preceeding the 92? SJ Bud Light asked: "Will there
be a couch or anything where I can change my shoes?" to a roaring
response, you can imagine. The gravel does kind of suck though. Brought a
dishpan for a foot rinse this year. Did the trick nicely.


   "Can we talk?"     -Joan Rivers

   "Can't we all just get along?"     -Rodney King

 
 
 

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by Jon Moen » Fri, 16 Jun 1995 04:00:00

David,
   I agree that the transition areas were a problem. One of the major reasons
is with the number of bikes expected to be put on each rack. It was physically
impossible to safely fit 9 bikes onto racks in both the swim/bike and bike/run
transitions. I believe the bike/run transition inequity was due to the race
directors choice and not an illegal racking of the bike. Apparently race number
and hence transition placement, was based on when you registered and not what
age group you were in. I realized this after noting others within my age-group
with race numbers placing them in quite different regions of the transition
area. Normally it is common that the age groups are blocked in the same
numbers, i.e. 20-24 would be 100-199, 25-29 would be 200-299, etc., however,
this was not the case at this race. A friend of mine who registered very
early had a very low number, 24, while I, am always slower than him in getting
in my registration, got a much larger number 282. I am not sure that is exactly
how it was determined, but that is my best guess at present.
Although I can understand a race directors motivation to reward those
individuals who send in their entries early it can lead to some major
inequities in the race. However, many races have a blocked region of bike
racks for a group of bikes say 700-720 and you can also attain an edge on your
competitors by showing up earlier to obtain the better position, which is in
the same vain as early registration.
I prefer having my competitors in the same region of the transition area,
within the limitations of number of competitors and physical area allows. I
also prefer having the racks pre-marked for each individual, and if anyone is
improperly racked they should be DQ'd. These are things I would like to see,
and as a competitor I try to impress this information onto the race director,
who is usually very eager to have competitor input. I also try and express my
appretiation for their effort in putting on the race, since I enjoy racing,
and know I don't have the time or effort available to produce an event of this
nature. As a result I try also to be appreciative of those individuals who have
taken on this endeavor. If they are making lots of money at it so much the
better, but it can't be that great, otherwise we would have unlimited races to
attend, and we all know thats not the case.

I live in Sonoma County and I love being able to race in such a beatiful
environment. Yes, the roads were chewed up due to the rain. But I rode on
those roads three weeks prior to race time (see my earlier post on the road
conditions) and let me tell you, they were much much much worse. In fact the
week prior to the race I road the course again and the CalTrans crews were on
those very roads we raced patching numerous pot-holes, and given the condition
of many other higher-use roads in the area, my hat goes off to the race
director for achieving the timely patching. Yes the swim was short, but given
the heavy winter rains the three major lakes feeding the Russian river are all
near capacity and have been continuously releasing high volumes. Apparently,
lake Sonoma, the closest upstring feed (about 20 miles) cut its release flow
lower than normal. Now, as a race director trying to estimate distance
travelled given a current, it is understandable to not always get it right on.
I am not indicating your post is all "negative" I just thought I would bring
a little different perspective into view. I also really love racing and don't
want to lose any of the races we do have. Sure they can improve (and maybe
even be less expensive). But until there are quite a few more brave souls
willing to make the investement of putting on more of these races, I would
like to support those we have and add any value in making them better, not
making them disappear.

   ...jon...       go hard...its hammertime...
                               !_!
                              (o o)
    -----------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo----------------------------------
   | Jon Christopher Moens           o  |  Hewlett Packard Company      |

   | Tel: (707) 577-5308    _ \<_   _\  |  1400 Fountaingrove Parkway   |
   |               ___^o_  (_)/(_)   /  |  Santa Rosa, CA  95403        |
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by Jon Moen » Fri, 16 Jun 1995 04:00:00


David,
   I agree that the transition areas were a problem. One of the major reasons
is with the number of bikes expected to be put on each rack. It was physically
impossible to safely fit 9 bikes onto racks in both the swim/bike and bike/run
transitions. I believe the bike/run transition inequity was due to the race
directors choice and not an illegal racking of the bike. Apparently race number
and hence transition placement, was based on when you registered and not what
age group you were in. I realized this after noting others within my age-group
with race numbers placing them in quite different regions of the transition
area. Normally it is common that the age groups are blocked in the same
numbers, i.e. 20-24 would be 100-199, 25-29 would be 200-299, etc., however,
this was not the case at this race. A friend of mine who registered very
early had a very low number, 24, while I, am always slower than him in getting
in my registration, got a much larger number 282. I am not sure that is exactly
how it was determined, but that is my best guess at present.
Although I can understand a race directors motivation to reward those
individuals who send in their entries early it can lead to some major
inequities in the race. However, many races have a blocked region of bike
racks for a group of bikes say 700-720 and you can also attain an edge on your
competitors by showing up earlier to obtain the better position, which is in
the same vain as early registration.
I prefer having my competitors in the same region of the transition area,
within the limitations of number of competitors and physical area allows. I
also prefer having the racks pre-marked for each individual, and if anyone is
improperly racked they should be DQ'd. These are things I would like to see,
and as a competitor I try to impress this information onto the race director,
who is usually very eager to have competitor input. I also try and express my
appretiation for their effort in putting on the race, since I enjoy racing,
and know I don't have the time or effort available to produce an event of this
nature. As a result I try also to be appreciative of those individuals who have
taken on this endeavor. If they are making lots of money at it so much the
better, but it can't be that great, otherwise we would have unlimited races to
attend, and we all know thats not the case.

I live in Sonoma County and I love being able to race in such a beatiful
environment. Yes, the roads were chewed up due to the rain. But I rode on
those roads three weeks prior to race time (see my earlier post on the road
conditions) and let me tell you, they were much much much worse. In fact the
week prior to the race I road the course again and the CalTrans crews were on
those very roads we raced patching numerous pot-holes, and given the condition
of many other higher-use roads in the area, my hat goes off to the race
director for achieving the timely patching. Yes the swim was short, but given
the heavy winter rains the three major lakes feeding the Russian river are all
near capacity and have been continuously releasing high volumes. Apparently,
lake Sonoma, the closest upstring feed (about 20 miles) cut its release flow
lower than normal. Now, as a race director trying to estimate distance
travelled given a current, it is understandable to not always get it right on.
I am not indicating your post is all "negative" I just thought I would bring
a little different perspective into view. I also really love racing and don't
want to lose any of the races we do have. Sure they can improve (and maybe
even be less expensive). But until there are quite a few more brave souls
willing to make the investement of putting on more of these races, I would
like to support those we have and add any value in making them better, not
making them disappear.

   ...jon...       go hard...its hammertime...
                               !_!
                              (o o)
    -----------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo----------------------------------
   | Jon Christopher Moens           o  |  Hewlett Packard Company      |

   | Tel: (707) 577-5308    _ \<_   _\  |  1400 Fountaingrove Parkway   |
   |               ___^o_  (_)/(_)   /  |  Santa Rosa, CA  95403        |
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by Eric Frie » Sat, 17 Jun 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
>I realize
>that the tri-Fed official (sorry, forgot the name) who spoke at the expo
>on Sat. mentioned that they would prefer not to penalize racers in general
>and age groupers in particular, apparently due to the negative impact it
>might have on the repeat business for that race, a legitimate concern, I
>guess, but wouldn't most of us get used to stricter enforcement pretty
>quickly?

This sucks!  Why have rules if you're not going to enforce them.  Sorry for
the vent, but I agree.  If they enforced the rules, particpants would get used
to the fact that they are going to be enforced.  I think this would encourage
not discrourage "repeat business".  Thats my $0.02 anyway.

Eric

 
 
 

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by Mark Heinic » Sat, 17 Jun 1995 04:00:00

(I assume we're talking about drafting under this subject?  (I've paid no
attention to this thread based on the subject until I happened to look at
this one accidentally.  With that understanding....)

Quote:

>>I realize
>>that the tri-Fed official (sorry, forgot the name) who spoke at the expo
>>on Sat. mentioned that they would prefer not to penalize racers in general
>>and age groupers in particular, apparently due to the negative impact it
>>might have on the repeat business for that race, a legitimate concern, I
>>guess, but wouldn't most of us get used to stricter enforcement pretty
>>quickly?

>This sucks!  Why have rules if you're not going to enforce them.  Sorry for
>the vent, but I agree.  If they enforced the rules, particpants would get used
>to the fact that they are going to be enforced.  I think this would encourage
>not discrourage "repeat business".  Thats my $0.02 anyway.

>Eric

I'm with you.  And, even if enforcement DID discourage "repeat business,"
so what?  Is repeat business more important than fair competition?  In the long
run, your best competitors are more likely to return to a race that is fair.
If the numbers are smaller, so be it.  Who wants a bunch of cheaters in their
race?

I contend, once again, that drafting rules should either be vigorously enforced,
or dropped.  Maybe they should be dropped, if even the officials are ambivalent
about them, and enforcement is so difficult.

Mark Heinicke
Department of Geography
University of Maryland at College Park


 
 
 

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by Tricia Richt » Sat, 17 Jun 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

> I try to put racing triathlons in perspective with the big picture:

> I didn't loose a race due to the transition area at Vineman, but I do
> have a roof over my head, enough food to eat, and my health.  I also feel
> fortunate to have a race that is near my hometown to go to.

> Janet

...and don't forget, Janet also did get second place in her division at
VineMan!  Great job, Janet, Congratulations!!!

Tricia

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"'Be a terrific innovation if you could get your mind to stretch a little further than the next wise crack."

"Y'know, I tried that once, but it didn't snap back into place."

---Katharine Hepburn & Eve Arden in "Stage Door" (1937)    

 
 
 

Vineman Int'l Report

Post by Tricia Richt » Sat, 17 Jun 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

> (I assume we're talking about drafting under this subject?  (I've paid no
> attention to this thread based on the subject until I happened to look at
> this one accidentally.  With that understanding....)


> >>I realize
> >>that the tri-Fed official (sorry, forgot the name) who spoke at the expo
> >>on Sat. mentioned that they would prefer not to penalize racers in general
> >>and age groupers in particular, apparently due to the negative impact it
> >>might have on the repeat business for that race, a legitimate concern, I
> >>guess, but wouldn't most of us get used to stricter enforcement pretty
> >>quickly?

> >This sucks!  Why have rules if you're not going to enforce them.  Sorry for
> >the vent, but I agree.  If they enforced the rules, particpants would
get used
> >to the fact that they are going to be enforced.  I think this would encourage
> >not discrourage "repeat business".  Thats my $0.02 anyway.

> >Eric

> I'm with you.  And, even if enforcement DID discourage "repeat business,"
> so what?  Is repeat business more important than fair competition?  In
the long
> run, your best competitors are more likely to return to a race that is fair.
> If the numbers are smaller, so be it.  Who wants a bunch of cheaters in their
> race?

> I contend, once again, that drafting rules should either be vigorously
enforced,
> or dropped.  Maybe they should be dropped, if even the officials are
ambivalent
> about them, and enforcement is so difficult.

> Mark Heinicke
> Department of Geography
> University of Maryland at College Park



It wasn't about drafting, it was about improper racking of bikes in the
transition area and the possibility of wearing some type of aquasocks
during the swim in order to "survive" the gravel-strewn transition area.

Please, let's not get into another drafting thread!

Tricia