Newbie BRICK...ok, maybe Newbie Brick Wall

Newbie BRICK...ok, maybe Newbie Brick Wall

Post by Rob Car » Tue, 21 May 2002 08:32:09


Well, I did a 20 mile bike workout today. Got off the bike and, having
re-racked it on the car, decided to see just how hard it would be to
run.

I'll pause here so all you experienced people can laugh yourselves
silly at me.

That was bizarre. It was like I didn't have any quads! I felt like I'd
had a localized bilateral stroke that totally fouled up my running. I
don't think I made 50 yards, and I wish I'd had a video of my form -
spastic doesn't begin to cover it.

Hey, you live and learn.

I hope I can run tomorrow. I've got a workout scheduled....

Rob

PS: How do I keep my hands from going numb?

 
 
 

Newbie BRICK...ok, maybe Newbie Brick Wall

Post by doc gre » Tue, 21 May 2002 10:04:14

Quote:

> That was bizarre. It was like I didn't have any quads!

Exactly how I felt after getting off the bike during my first tri. At that
time my bike was setup completely wrong and I hadn't done enough brick
training. A tri geometry bike with it's steeper 78 degree seat post is
supposed to help this more than the 74 degree angle of road bikes, but
IMO, this really shouldn't be a factor in except for IM length tris if
your road bike(assuming that is what you are using) is set up properly.

Quote:

> PS: How do I keep my hands from going numb?

This is  sometimes related to a medical condition called carpel tunnel
syndrome. In this case it is usually related to poor positioning on the
bike which is putting to much stress on your wrists. You should now get a
professional bike fit or do a google search on the web under this topic
and learn everything you can about bike fit and aero positioning. Try
these urls to start.
http://www.ultracycling.com/equipment/bikefit.html
http://www.bicyclesports.com/accessories/aerobars/slambars.html - read the
technical articles
http://www.coloradocyclist.com/BikeFit/index.cfm
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frames/index.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/pain.htmll

 
 
 

Newbie BRICK...ok, maybe Newbie Brick Wall

Post by BIANCO ROBER » Tue, 21 May 2002 10:14:11

Rob,

apparently your pedal stroke uses the quads a lot and not enough of
the hamstrings.  When riding, you might want to focus more on the
"pulling" that the "pushing down": that should spare your quads
some.  I don't believe it's a matter of bike frame angles triathlon vs
road bikes.  

The "transition" is not just that coupla minutes when you change
shoes and run off.  It involves easing down on gears several (5-10?)
minutes before even getting into the transition area, at the same
time increasing slightly carbo intake and hydration.  And when you're
finally ready to run, take it easy at first, give your leg muscles
time to relax and reshape at low intensity, on a high cadence, short
stride.  Focus on technique.  Unless it's a Sprint or you're vying
for a top slot, dashing out like if your life depended on it is one
of the stupidest actions.  Be patient and attuned to how your body is
reacting to the run --- in 5-10 min you should naturally feel
inclined to increase legs turnover.  With all this in mind, you might
want to practice more bricks on short rides (doesn't need to be a 20
mile ride!).

Re hand numbness, it could be that :
- your handlebar is not padded enough
- your gloves are not padded enough
- your (short) bike frame forces you to lean heavily on the handlebar
- you often keep the same hand position on the handlebar
or a combination of all these.
Assuming the padding and position are Ok, switch hand position often
and try to use the aerobar some more on the flats (it also
relieves the triceps a lot).

Roberto



Quote:
>Well, I did a 20 mile bike workout today. Got off the bike and, having
>re-racked it on the car, decided to see just how hard it would be to
>run.

>I'll pause here so all you experienced people can laugh yourselves
>silly at me.

>That was bizarre. It was like I didn't have any quads! I felt like I'd
>had a localized bilateral stroke that totally fouled up my running. I
>don't think I made 50 yards, and I wish I'd had a video of my form -
>spastic doesn't begin to cover it.

>Hey, you live and learn.

>I hope I can run tomorrow. I've got a workout scheduled....

>Rob

>PS: How do I keep my hands from going numb?


 
 
 

Newbie BRICK...ok, maybe Newbie Brick Wall

Post by Rob Car » Tue, 21 May 2002 11:18:22



Quote:
>Rob,

>apparently your pedal stroke uses the quads a lot and not enough of
>the hamstrings.  When riding, you might want to focus more on the
>"pulling" that the "pushing down": that should spare your quads
>some.  

Clue number 1 for me: Mountain Bike pedals only go "down" not up.

Quote:
>Unless it's a Sprint or you're vying
>for a top slot, dashing out like if your life depended on it is one
>of the stupidest actions.

Sound advice for any race. I was taught for the marathon to slow down
to what you think is a slow pace at the start - and then slow down
some more. There's something about the e***ment of the start that
makes you do dumb things.

Quote:
>Re hand numbness, it could be that :
...
>- your (short) bike frame forces you to lean heavily on the handlebar
>- you often keep the same hand position on the handlebar
>or a combination of all these.

When I'd stop on the way out today, I'd get a chance to relax while I
fixed my bike seat - I kept upping it a bit to find a better position.
On the way back, I didn't stop, except one time to look at a weird
flower.

I need a real bike for this, don't I?

I have to make a decision - how much am I going to keep biking?

I've known for years that biking does something good for my knees. If
I start getting knee pain from running, I'd go out for a 2 mile bike
ride and the next day the knees would be fine.

I'm a runner at heart, but even I have to admit that the wear and tear
(except for my hands) is far less.

Of course, I haven't wiped out yet, either. Those darn 4x4 wolmanized
posts in the road look like they're out to get me as I cycle past.

I may try to see if I can borrow a bike.

Rob

 
 
 

Newbie BRICK...ok, maybe Newbie Brick Wall

Post by Rob Car » Tue, 21 May 2002 11:21:01

Quote:

>You should now get a
>professional bike fit or do a google search on the web under this topic
>and learn everything you can about bike fit and aero positioning.

Thanks for the URLs, but I suspect the best advice might be "You
should now get a professional bike." Mountain bikes are meant for
something else. When I got this one years ago, I got it because it was
rugged and I could bike down the sides of mountains.

Did that once and realized I didn't want to die. Oh well.

Rob

 
 
 

Newbie BRICK...ok, maybe Newbie Brick Wall

Post by File Manage » Tue, 21 May 2002 12:08:53

Being fairly inexperienced at the sport myself, I can't offer any
technical advice on the bike type, bike fit, etc.  However, you may do
better starting out your bricks with fairly short bike ride, say 6
miles at a comfortable pace + ~10K run, then gradually build up the
bike mileage and intensity as those muscles develop.  That way, your
running is not forced to suffer as a result of bike fatigue.  Once you
get used to longer and/or more intense bike rides, you can start doing
bricks with long rides + shorter runs.  Personally, I prefer that
method, because I'm heavy and it allows me to minimize soreness by
using the bike ride to build endurance, and a short, but high-quality
(faster than race pace) run at the end to train for the run.
Quote:

>Well, I did a 20 mile bike workout today. Got off the bike and, having
>re-racked it on the car, decided to see just how hard it would be to
>run.

>I'll pause here so all you experienced people can laugh yourselves
>silly at me.

>That was bizarre. It was like I didn't have any quads! I felt like I'd
>had a localized bilateral stroke that totally fouled up my running. I
>don't think I made 50 yards, and I wish I'd had a video of my form -
>spastic doesn't begin to cover it.

>Hey, you live and learn.

>I hope I can run tomorrow. I've got a workout scheduled....

>Rob

>PS: How do I keep my hands from going numb?

 
 
 

Newbie BRICK...ok, maybe Newbie Brick Wall

Post by Vincent Cha » Tue, 21 May 2002 12:14:17

Quote:
> Clue number 1 for me: Mountain Bike pedals only go "down" not up.

You would think so, but a 'real' (i.e., quality,) MTB will still have
clipless pedals- they even make boots with a recessed cleat for MTB riders.
I'd know-- so many of my friends do MTB riding that I lost count. =)

Because this is a first tri, if you don't get a new (road) bike, you may
want to look into toe clips. These are relatively cheap (a lot can be found
for <$10) and give you the ability to pull up at least a little, making your
pedal stroke rounder and more effecient.

Quote:
> >Re hand numbness, it could be that :
> ...
> >- your (short) bike frame forces you to lean heavily on the handlebar
> >- you often keep the same hand position on the handlebar
> >or a combination of all these.
> I need a real bike for this, don't I?

Again, you would think so, wouldn't you? Even though your handlebars don't
have a *** grip the whole way through, you can move your hands closer
together and further apart- even on sections of the handlebar that don't
have a grip. It may not make too much of a difference, but it's better than
nothing. Also make sure you aren't gripping the bars to hard.

Quote:
> I have to make a decision - how much am I going to keep biking?

> I've known for years that biking does something good for my knees. If
> I start getting knee pain from running, I'd go out for a 2 mile bike
> ride and the next day the knees would be fine.

> I'm a runner at heart, but even I have to admit that the wear and tear
> (except for my hands) is far less.

You've got the general idea of buying a bike- a 'real' road bike will
probably cost upwards of 600USD (at least). If you plan to ride it often,
you might want to go ahead and get one. You'll have to make a commitment
though- spending up to $900 on a good entry-level bike (and then accessories
and proper clothing) isn't something you want to drop real quick.

If you're going to do it for triathlon, I suggest you finish at least one
before you buy.

Quote:
> I may try to see if I can borrow a bike.

While this may seem like a good idea, it may not be all that great. Someone
else's bike probably won't be adjusted to fit you, and it may not even be
the right size. This could make you very VERY uncomfortable during the ride.
Not to mention being bad on your back and joints.

--Vincent

 
 
 

Newbie BRICK...ok, maybe Newbie Brick Wall

Post by cgv » Tue, 21 May 2002 22:02:39

Rob, I also hit that wall as a newbie, but I have found that if you keep
pushing
thru the painful "duck walk/run" section that your legs adjust. The ***
flow equalizes,
and it gets better. It usually take me the first 3/4 miles to adjust, but
then after that I feel normal again!
good luck!!

jojo


Quote:
> Well, I did a 20 mile bike workout today. Got off the bike and, having
> re-racked it on the car, decided to see just how hard it would be to
> run.

> I'll pause here so all you experienced people can laugh yourselves
> silly at me.

> That was bizarre. It was like I didn't have any quads! I felt like I'd
> had a localized bilateral stroke that totally fouled up my running. I
> don't think I made 50 yards, and I wish I'd had a video of my form -
> spastic doesn't begin to cover it.

> Hey, you live and learn.

> I hope I can run tomorrow. I've got a workout scheduled....

> Rob

> PS: How do I keep my hands from going numb?

 
 
 

Newbie BRICK...ok, maybe Newbie Brick Wall

Post by MJuri » Wed, 22 May 2002 04:53:19

Quote:



>>Rob,

>>apparently your pedal stroke uses the quads a lot and not enough of
>>the hamstrings.  When riding, you might want to focus more on the
>>"pulling" that the "pushing down": that should spare your quads
>>some.  

>Clue number 1 for me: Mountain Bike pedals only go "down" not up.

>>Unless it's a Sprint or you're vying
>>for a top slot, dashing out like if your life depended on it is one
>>of the stupidest actions.

>Sound advice for any race. I was taught for the marathon to slow down
>to what you think is a slow pace at the start - and then slow down
>some more. There's something about the e***ment of the start that
>makes you do dumb things.

>>Re hand numbness, it could be that :
>...
>>- your (short) bike frame forces you to lean heavily on the handlebar
>>- you often keep the same hand position on the handlebar
>>or a combination of all these.

>When I'd stop on the way out today, I'd get a chance to relax while I
>fixed my bike seat - I kept upping it a bit to find a better position.
>On the way back, I didn't stop, except one time to look at a weird
>flower.

>I need a real bike for this, don't I?

>I have to make a decision - how much am I going to keep biking?

>I've known for years that biking does something good for my knees. If
>I start getting knee pain from running, I'd go out for a 2 mile bike
>ride and the next day the knees would be fine.

>I'm a runner at heart, but even I have to admit that the wear and tear
>(except for my hands) is far less.

>Of course, I haven't wiped out yet, either. Those darn 4x4 wolmanized
>posts in the road look like they're out to get me as I cycle past.

>I may try to see if I can borrow a bike.

>Rob

        I'm kinda in the same boat as you are. Started out running and
moved into biking. I started out last summer doing a few duathlons and
hope to do a couple sprint tri's this year.

        The first time I did a brick I did the same thing. However
after doing it a few time and taking a few hints from here I found,
aside from the first 50 yds of wobbly leggs, that my running is not
affected much at all. A few things I do. Equal effort the same as
running up and down hills. If you really crunch your legs to grind up
the hills you'll not have much left for your run. No expert here but
It makes sense to me to leave that type of workout to a bike only day.
I believe that someone else mentioned tapering bake 5-10 minutes at
the end of th bike ride. Gives some time for leg rejuvination.

        As far as a bike goes I have a cheap mountain bike. I by no
means expect to be at the top of the age bracket with it but for the
most part I seem to hold my own. It has been said here several times
"It's not the bike but the motor". I really don't think changing from
a MTB to a rodie will do much for the legs. It may make you a little
faster but you'll be expending the same energy to go that fast adn
then you still have wobbly legs.

        I'll eventually will get a new or used decent road bike. But
if you're just dabbling with Tri's like I am you may want to keep the
MTB for know and do a few upgrades. I added road tires to mine and
that made a huge difference. I was even thinking of getting road
clipless pedals. I could then transfer these to any bike I get.

~Matt

 
 
 

Newbie BRICK...ok, maybe Newbie Brick Wall

Post by Jet Jagua » Wed, 22 May 2002 11:59:46

What I found that really helped with my transition is to make a point
of running once around the block after every single ride.  It's only
about 3/4 mi so it's not really a true brick, but it has helped my
legs get used to the feeling of running immediately off the bike.  Now
I have no problems at all with *** legs.

---
Jet Jaguar
I have a spam blocking address.  Replying to me is like pulling teeth.
Visit my crappy home page at http://SportToday.org/~chmilnir/
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