Marathon as part of Ironman training

Marathon as part of Ironman training

Post by HaroldBu » Fri, 02 Aug 2002 05:51:36


Many of the "here's how to run a Marathon" books suggest not actually running
26 miles before the race. Instead, they say work up to 22-24 and save the 26
for race day.

For an Ironman, though, I would think that most people *would* do a 26-miler
(or more) during training. Is that the case?

If so, how long before your Ironman do you do your 26-miler?

Do you sign up for an official Marathon if there's one that's convenient to
your location and schedule?

I'd kind of like to sign up for an "official" Marathon, but I know I could be
disciplined about taking it easy and using it as a workout; I'm sure I wouldn't
go out trying to race it. My guess would be that if you had a tendency to
"race" in such Situations then maybe doing an official race would be a bad
idea.

What do you think?

-Harold

 
 
 

Marathon as part of Ironman training

Post by Davi » Fri, 02 Aug 2002 06:07:37

Quote:
>For an Ironman, though, I would think that most people *would* do a 26-miler
>(or more) during training. Is that the case?

Harold,
     I am not the fastest runner so feel free to take this w/ a grain of salt.
I have done 11 IMs (about 125 tris), and before that about the same # of
marathons.  I have NEVER done a training run over about 18 miles, and my pre IM
training runs aren't that long.
     I have tended to be injury prone over the years and have found that doing
long bricks, swim/run and bike/run, allow me to have long "run" workouts w/out
the actual run part being over 2 hours, and lowering the risk of injury.
     To give this a little perspective, my marathons were 3.20-3.30 and my IM
runs are around 4.00 (on a good day:-)).  What I have seen  other local IM
competitors do, which I think is a mistake (at least for us regular
working/family folks) is have  the mentality of training for 3 events.  Rather,
I think you train for 1 event, it just contains 3 parts.
    Just some thoughts.  I'm sure some have very different views.  You do need
to ask what your long term goal(s) is(are).  Mine is to continue being a good
husband and father, a successful professional, stay fit and happy, and do a
little thing called an Ironman every year or so just for fun.  I have been
fortunate to have a couple good races along the way too.

Good Luck!
      David
Never give up, Be satisfied w/ your best, Do unto others.....

 
 
 

Marathon as part of Ironman training

Post by Marty Carso » Fri, 02 Aug 2002 06:16:30

Although I'm sure there are some who actually do 26 mi or longer
training runs in preparation for an IM, I've never met one.  The longest
training run I ever did for IM training was 21 mi.  What I found most
helpful in physical and mental preparation were 'killer' weekend
workouts where I swam 4000+ m on a Friday evening followed by a century
ride on Saturday, and a 20 mi run on Sunday morning.  It took quite a
time to build up to this, but I figured if I could do these distances
within a 36 hr period without being totally wiped, I could do an IM
provided I had properly tapered.  Getting used to running 20 mi on legs
tired from the previous days century ride seemed particularly helpful.
If you are an elite athlete seeking a Kona slot, maybe doing
overdistance runs would be helpful, but for most of us MOP/BOP
age-groupers who just want to finish, the increased risk of injury from
putting in all those running miles is just too great.  YMMV
Quote:

> Many of the "here's how to run a Marathon" books suggest not actually running
> 26 miles before the race. Instead, they say work up to 22-24 and save the 26
> for race day.

> For an Ironman, though, I would think that most people *would* do a 26-miler
> (or more) during training. Is that the case?

> If so, how long before your Ironman do you do your 26-miler?

> Do you sign up for an official Marathon if there's one that's convenient to
> your location and schedule?

> I'd kind of like to sign up for an "official" Marathon, but I know I could be
> disciplined about taking it easy and using it as a workout; I'm sure I wouldn't
> go out trying to race it. My guess would be that if you had a tendency to
> "race" in such Situations then maybe doing an official race would be a bad
> idea.

> What do you think?

> -Harold


 
 
 

Marathon as part of Ironman training

Post by Ken » Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:46:31

Marty's approach is on track with what works for me.   I like to combine the
long bike with a 3000 to 4000 swim first and do the same prior to running
long.   My long runs have varied over the years from 18 miles longest to 30
miles longest.   My fastest IM run came the year that I did several 26 plus
mile runs.   Maybe they helped or perhaps it was a bit cooler, I tapered
better or who knows.   I seem to do best when my swims are 6000 and long
bikes are 140+ miles.  Running seems to have less impact but weekly mileage
of 45 or more is important.
Ken


Quote:
> Although I'm sure there are some who actually do 26 mi or longer
> training runs in preparation for an IM, I've never met one.  The longest
> training run I ever did for IM training was 21 mi.  What I found most
> helpful in physical and mental preparation were 'killer' weekend
> workouts where I swam 4000+ m on a Friday evening followed by a century
> ride on Saturday, and a 20 mi run on Sunday morning.  It took quite a
> time to build up to this, but I figured if I could do these distances
> within a 36 hr period without being totally wiped, I could do an IM
> provided I had properly tapered.  Getting used to running 20 mi on legs
> tired from the previous days century ride seemed particularly helpful.
> If you are an elite athlete seeking a Kona slot, maybe doing
> overdistance runs would be helpful, but for most of us MOP/BOP
> age-groupers who just want to finish, the increased risk of injury from
> putting in all those running miles is just too great.  YMMV


> > Many of the "here's how to run a Marathon" books suggest not actually
running
> > 26 miles before the race. Instead, they say work up to 22-24 and save
the 26
> > for race day.

> > For an Ironman, though, I would think that most people *would* do a
26-miler
> > (or more) during training. Is that the case?

> > If so, how long before your Ironman do you do your 26-miler?

> > Do you sign up for an official Marathon if there's one that's convenient
to
> > your location and schedule?

> > I'd kind of like to sign up for an "official" Marathon, but I know I
could be
> > disciplined about taking it easy and using it as a workout; I'm sure I
wouldn't
> > go out trying to race it. My guess would be that if you had a tendency
to
> > "race" in such Situations then maybe doing an official race would be a
bad
> > idea.

> > What do you think?

> > -Harold

 
 
 

Marathon as part of Ironman training

Post by Bernie Hal » Fri, 02 Aug 2002 10:41:00

Rick Niles ("Time Saving Training for Multisport Athletes") coaches me and
he has me work up to
several 2:20-2:30 runs, one 3:00 and one 3:30 maximum.
I figure the most I've ever run in training is 20 miles.
I too am injury prone. I run on trails and save the
longest distance and pounding on streets for races
only!

--
Bernie Hall
                                  o
                  __o       </\_
                 \ <       __/\
   /\o__  (0)  (0)         /    \__o
^^^^^^                          ^   ^
     2.4      112       26.2
  Great Floridian Triathlon
  2000~12:40.14
  2001~12:30.36

Quote:
> Marty's approach is on track with what works for me.   I like to combine
the
> long bike with a 3000 to 4000 swim first and do the same prior to running
> long.   My long runs have varied over the years from 18 miles longest to
30
> miles longest.   My fastest IM run came the year that I did several 26
plus
> mile runs.   Maybe they helped or perhaps it was a bit cooler, I tapered
> better or who knows.   I seem to do best when my swims are 6000 and long
> bikes are 140+ miles.  Running seems to have less impact but weekly
mileage
> of 45 or more is important.
> Ken



> > Although I'm sure there are some who actually do 26 mi or longer
> > training runs in preparation for an IM, I've never met one.  The longest
> > training run I ever did for IM training was 21 mi.  What I found most
> > helpful in physical and mental preparation were 'killer' weekend
> > workouts where I swam 4000+ m on a Friday evening followed by a century
> > ride on Saturday, and a 20 mi run on Sunday morning.  It took quite a
> > time to build up to this, but I figured if I could do these distances
> > within a 36 hr period without being totally wiped, I could do an IM
> > provided I had properly tapered.  Getting used to running 20 mi on legs
> > tired from the previous days century ride seemed particularly helpful.
> > If you are an elite athlete seeking a Kona slot, maybe doing
> > overdistance runs would be helpful, but for most of us MOP/BOP
> > age-groupers who just want to finish, the increased risk of injury from
> > putting in all those running miles is just too great.  YMMV


> > > Many of the "here's how to run a Marathon" books suggest not actually
> running
> > > 26 miles before the race. Instead, they say work up to 22-24 and save
> the 26
> > > for race day.

> > > For an Ironman, though, I would think that most people *would* do a
> 26-miler
> > > (or more) during training. Is that the case?

> > > If so, how long before your Ironman do you do your 26-miler?

> > > Do you sign up for an official Marathon if there's one that's
convenient
> to
> > > your location and schedule?

> > > I'd kind of like to sign up for an "official" Marathon, but I know I
> could be
> > > disciplined about taking it easy and using it as a workout; I'm sure I
> wouldn't
> > > go out trying to race it. My guess would be that if you had a tendency
> to
> > > "race" in such Situations then maybe doing an official race would be a
> bad
> > > idea.

> > > What do you think?

> > > -Harold

 
 
 

Marathon as part of Ironman training

Post by Alan Walke » Fri, 02 Aug 2002 11:26:31

I'm 38 years old, went 12:14 at IM Florida last year (including 15 minutes
for bike repairs).  I've had plantar fasciitis on and off, as well as other
nagging injuries, so I never really ran more than 10-15 miles in the
preceding 6 months last year, and only had 2-3 days per week when I had two
training session.  As for the run, I've done numerous marathons and trail
ultras in the past - it helps to know what it feels like to be wasted, to
learn how to run when you're a little beat up.  A friend of mine ran his
first ever marathon at IM Florida last year, he's not a natural runner and
wasn't enjoying life after T2.  The IM, for me at least, is 50% physical,
50% mental.  A question of balance, knowing yourself and what you can do on
the day.

As always, YMMV.

Having said that, I plan some over distance this year in training, maybe a
30 miler, done as a run-walk (a la Galloway).  I'd also like to add that I
hurt more after a marathon than I do after a 1/2 IM or IM.

My basic advice for the IM, if it's casual conversation, let's talk, but  if
you *really* have to ask, you're probably not ready to do the Ironman.

Alan.


Quote:
> Many of the "here's how to run a Marathon" books suggest not actually
running
> 26 miles before the race. Instead, they say work up to 22-24 and save the
26
> for race day.

> For an Ironman, though, I would think that most people *would* do a
26-miler
> (or more) during training. Is that the case?

> If so, how long before your Ironman do you do your 26-miler?

> Do you sign up for an official Marathon if there's one that's convenient
to
> your location and schedule?

> I'd kind of like to sign up for an "official" Marathon, but I know I could
be
> disciplined about taking it easy and using it as a workout; I'm sure I
wouldn't
> go out trying to race it. My guess would be that if you had a tendency to
> "race" in such Situations then maybe doing an official race would be a bad
> idea.

> What do you think?

> -Harold

 
 
 

Marathon as part of Ironman training

Post by Jason O'Rour » Fri, 02 Aug 2002 17:34:31

Quote:

>Many of the "here's how to run a Marathon" books suggest not actually running
>26 miles before the race. Instead, they say work up to 22-24 and save the 26

All of the participants of the Galloway program in SF's Aids Marathon training
group did the full distance 3 weeks before they went to Honolulu.  I
would be fine never going 18 myself - why abuse the body extra.

I don't see anything wrong with doing a marathon well before the IM though.
You're putting in all the work, why not do one before you do one after
a century and a short swim?  
--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

 
 
 

Marathon as part of Ironman training

Post by Chris Magi » Sat, 03 Aug 2002 02:45:50

My long run when training for 2 marathons last year were 22 miles on
pavement and I beat the hell out of my legs and lower back.  I haven't
run any more than 16-17 miles since my last marathon in Nov (NYC) and
that on trails only.  However I am planning on longer distance runs as
I prepare for a late Fall/early Winter marathon and then a June IM.
However, I won't do any runs on pavement longer than 14 miles, with 20
mile plus runs on dirt.  I find no problems with injury running on
trails (other than being a klutz and tripping over rocks).  The mental
effect of going the longer distance in training is important for me
personally (and doing it on trails can be fun).
Quote:


> >Many of the "here's how to run a Marathon" books suggest not actually running
> >26 miles before the race. Instead, they say work up to 22-24 and save the 26

> All of the participants of the Galloway program in SF's Aids Marathon training
> group did the full distance 3 weeks before they went to Honolulu.  I
> would be fine never going 18 myself - why abuse the body extra.

> I don't see anything wrong with doing a marathon well before the IM though.
> You're putting in all the work, why not do one before you do one after
> a century and a short swim?

 
 
 

Marathon as part of Ironman training

Post by Jason O'Rour » Sat, 03 Aug 2002 04:22:41

Quote:

>However, I won't do any runs on pavement longer than 14 miles, with 20
>mile plus runs on dirt.  I find no problems with injury running on
>trails (other than being a klutz and tripping over rocks).  The mental
>effect of going the longer distance in training is important for me
>personally (and doing it on trails can be fun).

I like running on the beach for the LSD stuff.  I generally do it barefoot
on the water's edge.  Very pleasant.    

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

 
 
 

Marathon as part of Ironman training

Post by trigu » Sat, 03 Aug 2002 21:36:09

The furthest I've ever run for a marathon was 22 and I have a sub three hour
PR. For my first IM I came off the longest marathon running season I ever
had (four in one year) followed by Boston and then Gulf Coast where I
qualified for IMH. After qualifing I continued long runs every weekend in
the 17-18 range with some 20 milers as I got closer to IMH. I ended up
having my best IM run that year (95). My worst IM run was after a lack of
enthusiasm for long summer runs and I paid for it. As I recall my longest
run was three hours with a few 17 milers before that.

I believe a strong running base is essential for a good IM run and for a
good overall IM. The base should be established in the off season and
maintained when tri season rolls around. No, it's not necessary to run long
every weekend. However, I would run long every other weekend to keep my
established base.


Quote:
> Many of the "here's how to run a Marathon" books suggest not actually
running
> 26 miles before the race. Instead, they say work up to 22-24 and save the
26
> for race day.

> For an Ironman, though, I would think that most people *would* do a
26-miler
> (or more) during training. Is that the case?

> If so, how long before your Ironman do you do your 26-miler?

> Do you sign up for an official Marathon if there's one that's convenient
to
> your location and schedule?

> I'd kind of like to sign up for an "official" Marathon, but I know I could
be
> disciplined about taking it easy and using it as a workout; I'm sure I
wouldn't
> go out trying to race it. My guess would be that if you had a tendency to
> "race" in such Situations then maybe doing an official race would be a bad
> idea.

> What do you think?

> -Harold

 
 
 

Marathon as part of Ironman training

Post by SBRMJ » Sun, 04 Aug 2002 07:28:07

Quote:

>I believe a strong running base is essential for a good IM run and for a
>good overall IM

I agree with this.  I struggled during the IMH 2001marathon in part because of
a lack of true long distance running in my race buildup. (And after the
gale-force wind shredded my legs!)  I had to make some compromises based on a
very busy summer, and in retrospect I should have done more 17-20 mile runs to
really build the strength level that you need in Kona.