pool swim VS. open water swim...ie TIME

pool swim VS. open water swim...ie TIME

Post by JHansen8 » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00


i've as many of you know a long time lurker / trouble causer..
I've been training a bit and did a 1/4 mile swim TT today at the pool
actually i did 9 laps... in right at a slow 13 minutes...how or what would
this translate to in a open water 1/4 mile swim?

 John Hansen

 Sarasota  Fl.

 
 
 

pool swim VS. open water swim...ie TIME

Post by Iron Pe » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:
>i've as many of you know a long time lurker / trouble causer..
>I've been training a bit and did a 1/4 mile swim TT today at the pool
>actually i did 9 laps... in right at a slow 13 minutes...how or what would
>this translate to in a open water 1/4 mile swim?

> John Hansen

> Sarasota  Fl.

It all depends on how well you flip turn in the pool. If your flip turn is on
the mark you "should" have a similar time in the  pool than as in the open
water. Of course other variable exist in the open water like current, weather,
etc.

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pool swim VS. open water swim...ie TIME

Post by gordo byr » Wed, 08 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Quote:
> It all depends on how well you flip turn in the pool. If your flip turn is
on
> the mark you "should" have a similar time in the  pool than as in the open
> water. Of course other variable exist in the open water like current,
weather,
> etc.

Don't forget wetsuit!

gordo "needing all the help I can get" byrn

 
 
 

pool swim VS. open water swim...ie TIME

Post by Pat Bru » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00

<snip>

Quote:
> It all depends on how well you flip turn in the pool. If your flip turn is
on
> the mark you "should" have a similar time in the  pool than as in the open
> water.

No, pool swimming is almost always faster.  Every time you push off the
wall, you travel faster than swimming.  How much so, depends on how good
your turns are.  I would guestimate that pool swimming is at least 5% faster
than an open water swim in similar conditions.

Pat

 
 
 

pool swim VS. open water swim...ie TIME

Post by Brian Wagne » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> No, pool swimming is almost always faster.  Every time you push off the
> wall, you travel faster than swimming.  How much so, depends on how good
> your turns are.  I would guestimate that pool swimming is at least 5% faster
> than an open water swim in similar conditions.

But the push off is preceded by a drop to zero velocity  and direction
reversal which does not occur in open water.  There are too many
variables to make a generalization one way or the other.  Some people
can swim straight without sighting as often, for others the line on the
pool bottom is the only thing between them and swimming in circles.
 
 
 

pool swim VS. open water swim...ie TIME

Post by Cary McConlog » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00

: > No, pool swimming is almost always faster.  Every time you push off the
: > wall, you travel faster than swimming.  How much so, depends on how good
: > your turns are.  I would guestimate that pool swimming is at least 5% faster
: > than an open water swim in similar conditions.

: But the push off is preceded by a drop to zero velocity  and direction
: reversal which does not occur in open water.  There are too many
: variables to make a generalization one way or the other.  Some people
: can swim straight without sighting as often, for others the line on the
: pool bottom is the only thing between them and swimming in circles.

Compare world records for long course versus short course meters (50m v.
25m pool.)  The only difference between the events is the number of
turns, and the short course records are faster in every event.  

Turns definitely make pool swimming faster (assuming a respectable turn),
not to mention the variable open water effects of current, wind, etc.

Cary

 
 
 

pool swim VS. open water swim...ie TIME

Post by Pat Bru » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:
> But the push off is preceded by a drop to zero velocity  and direction
> reversal which does not occur in open water.  There are too many
> variables to make a generalization one way or the other.  Some people
> can swim straight without sighting as often, for others the line on the
> pool bottom is the only thing between them and swimming in circles.

Again, I disagree.  I've swum competitively since '71, coached for several
years as well as participated in many long distance open water swims before
triathlon.   This affect is well-known and easily demonstrated by comparing
any swim of a length in a 25 m pool vs a 50 m pool.  The 25 m times are
always faster.

The swimming conversion charts from one type of pool length to another also
support this.

Pat

 
 
 

pool swim VS. open water swim...ie TIME

Post by Jimmy Streble » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Brian, let's just put it this way.  When I push off the wall, I'm moving so
fast through the water that I can't even kick for a few beats because the
drag from kicking would slow me down.  If I don't streamline tight enough,
it feels like somebody is trying to rip my arm back down to my side.

That's not just me, either.  That's every competitive swimmer I know.

I can't possibly generate that sort of speed in the water while stroking.

The walls help... a lot.

 
 
 

pool swim VS. open water swim...ie TIME

Post by rsqua.. » Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Very few debates in RST are this cut & dry.  Decent turns make pool
times faster than open water times.  In fact it would have to be a
pretty poor "turner" to make them comparable.

rsquared


Quote:

> But the push off is preceded by a drop to zero velocity  and direction
> reversal which does not occur in open water.  There are too many
> variables to make a generalization one way or the other.  Some people
> can swim straight without sighting as often, for others the line on
the
> pool bottom is the only thing between them and swimming in circles.

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pool swim VS. open water swim...ie TIME

Post by Andr » Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:00:00

 I also weigh in on the side supporting turns diminishing times. The turn is
started far from the wall, using momentum to propel the legs over. Motion does
indeed stop, but I might compare it to the stop a pendulum makes before heading
back in the opposite direction. It does stop, but only for the merest moment.
The stored momentum in the bent legs on the wall then "explodes" forcing the
body through the water faster than stroking allows.

 Just my semi-humble opinion, of course.
awp in sd
IMCA inaugural
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pool swim VS. open water swim...ie TIME

Post by D. Schoonmak » Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> <snip>
> > It all depends on how well you flip turn in the pool. If your flip turn is
> on
> > the mark you "should" have a similar time in the  pool than as in the open
> > water.

> No, pool swimming is almost always faster.  Every time you push off the
> wall, you travel faster than swimming.  How much so, depends on how good
> your turns are.  I would guestimate that pool swimming is at least 5% faster
> than an open water swim in similar conditions.

Closer to 10 percent for me, and I don't flip turn. What's more, I'm the
sort of swimmer (slow) a wetuit should really help. Data: Best 750m in the
pool sans neoprene = 11:45; best 750m open-water race w/suit = 13:00. Best
1,500m no flotation in the pool = 25:30; best 1,500m race w/QR = 28:00.

This used to trouble me, until I stopped to figure how much those turns,
open though they may be, help. It's not only an opportunity to exceed hull
speed, but it uses the legs while the arms get a rest.

Now if only there were more people to push off of during the swim. :)

David