Men's Basketball - Munich '72

Men's Basketball - Munich '72

Post by Doug Appleya » Sat, 01 Aug 1992 23:21:25


Does anybody remember the complete story of the end of
the men's basketball championship game between the U.S.
and USSR in the 1972 summer games?  I seem to remember:

1.  U.S. wins after sinking two free throws with 11 seconds to go.
2.  Some guy with no authority comes out of stands and says
    game clock was incorrect.
3.  Time is put back on clock; Soviets get one last chance but miss.
4.  Guy with no authority claims not enough time was put back on clock.
5.  Time is put back on clock again; this time the Sovs
    make a last second layup and win the gold medal.

On NPR last night they had a story about this game and said time
was put back on the clock only once.  Which is right?

Incidentally, the U.S. team did not accept the silver medal and
still have not accepted it.  The gist of the story last night
is that some of the players (Tommy Burleson was interviewed) are
ready to forgive the officials and accept the medal, but most
of the players do not feel they deserve the silver so they don't
want it.  

It sounded like this episode infuriated a lot of people!  
However the other events occuring in Munich at the time kind of makes
the outcome of some basketball game seem pretty insignificant.

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Men's Basketball - Munich '72

Post by Ken Lehn » Sun, 02 Aug 1992 00:25:21

Here's my (very old) memory of the game.  Doug Collins hits 2 free throws
with :03 seconds on the clock.  Soviet player takes ball out of bounds.
Apparently, the Soviet coach was trying to get a timeout called, but he
did not do it before a particular event occurred (ball taken out, ball
brought back into play, I'm not sure).  Soviets bring ball into play, fail
to score, time shows :00, pandemonium breaks out.  Someone comes down
from stands (supposedly a high-ranking basketball official, who had
absolutely no power to do anything), orders :03 back on clock, with
Soviet possession.  US coach goes berserk.  Soviets bring ball back in
play, fail to score.  Pandemonium breaks out.  Uh-oh, clock still shows
:03!  Ball given back to Soviets.  US coach has stroke.  Soviets bring
ball back in with full-court pass to Alexandr Belov under the basket.
Two US players fall to the court.  Belov lays it in, game over.

BTW, the head scorekeeper and head timekeeper both filed affadavits in
the subsequent hearing on the game, testifying that the US should have
won the game, under official rules.

Now ask me about how Bob Seagren ended up vaulting in Munich '72 with
a decathlete's poles which he had never seen before! :^(

 
 
 

Men's Basketball - Munich '72

Post by John Mani » Sun, 02 Aug 1992 02:35:35

|> Does anybody remember the complete story of the end of
|> the men's basketball championship game between the U.S.
|> and USSR in the 1972 summer games?  I seem to remember:
|>
|> 1.  U.S. wins after sinking two free throws with 11 seconds to go.
|> 2.  Some guy with no authority comes out of stands and says
|>     game clock was incorrect.
|> 3.  Time is put back on clock; Soviets get one last chance but miss.
|> 4.  Guy with no authority claims not enough time was put back on clock.
|> 5.  Time is put back on clock again; this time the Sovs
|>     make a last second layup and win the gold medal.
|>
|> On NPR last night they had a story about this game and said time
|> was put back on the clock only once.  Which is right?

   Time was only put back once.  Here is what happened:

  1) US down 1, Doug Collins steals a pass and is fouled.  He makes
     both free throws putting US up 1.

  2) USSR tries to call time out, but back then you weren't allowed to call
     time out after free throws.  I think this rule has been changed.
     So the time out is not allowed, USSR throws the ball in bounds and does
     not score.  US wins.

  3) Some Olympic official comes out of the stands and says the time out should
     have been allowed and has 3 seconds put back on the clock.  This guy had no
     authority to do so.  Soviets set up a play.

  4) On the in bounds pass the referee makes the US guy stand way back, like at
     the foul line which was also in correct, The USSR throw the ball the length
     of the floor, they catch it and score.  USSR wins.

  5) US protest, but is denied by a pro-USSR group.  Not sure what the group
     was made up of.  The US lost the protest by 1 vote.
|>
|> Incidentally, the U.S. team did not accept the silver medal and
|> still have not accepted it.  The gist of the story last night
|> is that some of the players (Tommy Burleson was interviewed) are
|> ready to forgive the officials and accept the medal, but most
|> of the players do not feel they deserve the silver so they don't
|> want it.  

  They agreed that they would all have to accept it, if one guy does not
  no one can.  The IOC also says they all must accept to get them.  One of
  the guys has it in his will that noone is ever to accept it for him so I
  don't think they ever will.

|>
|> It sounded like this episode infuriated a lot of people!  
|> However the other events occuring in Munich at the time kind of makes
|> the outcome of some basketball game seem pretty insignificant.

That's for sure.

|>
|> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
|> -= Doug Appleyard  =-=-=-=-=-=-= voice: 919-991-7805  esn: 294-7805 -=

|> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|>

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Men's Basketball - Munich '72

Post by Eric We » Sun, 02 Aug 1992 03:02:51

According to NBC:

1. There are three seconds left as the American player sinks his free
throws.  The Soviet coaches try to call a time-out, but two seconds tick
off before the referee stops the clock.  After the time out, the Soviets
inbound the ball with :01 left, fail to score, and the Americans believe
that they have won.

2. The official from the stands points out that the Soviets should have had
three seconds to try to score, not just one, because the Soviets really
called time-out when there were three seconds left.  They order three
seconds put back on the clock.  Unfortunately, for some strange reason, the
referee gives the Soviet inbounder the ball before the clock was reset (it
was an old-fashioned scoreboard and they were counting down to :03 from one
minute).  The Soviets inbound the ball, fail to score, and the Americans
believe they have won.

3. The officials contend that because there was not three seconds on the
clock, the Soviets did not get a fair chance to score.  Three seconds are
put on the clock as originally ordered.  The Soviets inbound the ball, get
it right this time, and the Americans cannot believe that they have not won.

Both replays were caused by referee incompetence.  If they had stopped the
clock when the Soviets called time out, or if they had waited until the
clock was really reset before putting the ball in play, there would have
been no replay.  One hates to see a referee's call at the end of the game
messing things up, but one has to realize that there are forty minutes in a
game, not just three seconds.  Would anyone be talking about controversy
if this replay confusion had happened at the end of the first half and the
Soviets had won by one point at the end?  Maybe some, but not as many.
More importantly, if the United States team were so wonderful and so
absolutely deserving of the gold, the game would not have been so close in
the first place.  The Dream Team would have withstood 50 replays and still
won.  The same thing is happening this year: if the US volleyball team
weren't playing like "dogmeat" (a US player's opinion, not just mine),
they would not have been in such a close match with Japan and the red card
would not have mattered, whether it happened at the end of the match or
not.  Referee error is, sadly, a part of all sports, and the only way to
overcome it is to beat your opponent so convincingly that it won't matter.
If two teams are so closely matched that a referee's decision happens to
decide the final point of a game, neither team should say that they
absolutely "deserved" to win.  This is true of both the '72 basketball team
and the '92 volleyball team.

Just my opinion,
ecw

 
 
 

Men's Basketball - Munich '72

Post by Kalle Kivim » Sun, 02 Aug 1992 05:10:46


Quote:
>not.  Referee error is, sadly, a part of all sports, and the only way to

"Player mistakes are, sadly, a part of all sports".

Quote:
>If two teams are so closely matched that a referee's decision happens to
>decide the final point of a game, neither team should say that they

Surprisingly, this happens very rarely (ok, in soccer sometimes, but
there the scores are so low).  I personally have seen NO game
in which the referees would have decided it (by error or by incompetence),
and I watch team games quite often and follow them in the newspapers
each day. (and also referee finnish baseball and american football)

--
*  In the beginning the Universe was created.   *
*  This has made a lot of people very angry and *
*  has widely been regarded as a bad move.      *
*  (define author Douglas Adams)                *

 
 
 

Men's Basketball - Munich '72

Post by Kalle Kivim » Sun, 02 Aug 1992 05:07:06


Quote:
>Both replays were caused by referee incompetence.  If they had stopped the

No, THE replay was caused by a clear injustice.  I guess some
'official' noticed that "Hey, the USSR can beat the Yankees
in their own game" and made it so.  Then the decisions were
upheld in the jury....

Even here in Finland the final of '72 is considered a joke.
I still wonder why team USA did not make a counter-protest
over the FIVB's decision...
--
*  In the beginning the Universe was created.   *
*  This has made a lot of people very angry and *
*  has widely been regarded as a bad move.      *
*  (define author Douglas Adams)                *

 
 
 

Men's Basketball - Munich '72

Post by Joel D Alvst » Sun, 02 Aug 1992 05:14:09

Quote:

>Does anybody remember the complete story of the end of
>the men's basketball championship game between the U.S.
>and USSR in the 1972 summer games?  I seem to remember:

>1.  U.S. wins after sinking two free throws with 11 seconds to go.
>2.  Some guy with no authority comes out of stands and says
>    game clock was incorrect.
>3.  Time is put back on clock; Soviets get one last chance but miss.
>4.  Guy with no authority claims not enough time was put back on clock.
>5.  Time is put back on clock again; this time the Sovs
>    make a last second layup and win the gold medal.

>On NPR last night they had a story about this game and said time
>was put back on the clock only once.  Which is right?

>Incidentally, the U.S. team did not accept the silver medal and
>still have not accepted it.  The gist of the story last night
>is that some of the players (Tommy Burleson was interviewed) are
>ready to forgive the officials and accept the medal, but most
>of the players do not feel they deserve the silver so they don't
>want it.  

>It sounded like this episode infuriated a lot of people!  
>However the other events occuring in Munich at the time kind of makes
>the outcome of some basketball game seem pretty insignificant.

>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>-= Doug Appleyard  =-=-=-=-=-=-= voice: 919-991-7805  esn: 294-7805 -=

>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I seem to remember hearing a similar story.  From what I heard, this was the
sequence of events:

1) Doug Collins makes two free throws with THREE not 11 seconds left.
2) Soviets immediately inbound ball while coach was trying to call time.
3) Soviets miss half-court shot--USA wins gold.
4) Soviet coach complains that he was trying to call time.
5) President of International Basketball Federation comes from stands and
   order 3 seconds placed back on clock, as well as a Soviet time out.
6) After time out, Soviets inbound ball, miss half-court shot--USA wins gold.
7) President of IFB says that the time out wasn't long enough, orders another
   3 seconds on the clock.
8) Soviets throw full court pass, caught by really tall guy over shorter USA
   player, Soviet turns and banks a two footer off the glass.  Soviets win gold.9) USA files protest, but is not granted.
10) USA refuses to show at medal ceremony while Soviets receive gold.
11) To this day, 12 silver medals sit in the vault of a Munich bank...

That's the way I've heard it..

Joel Alvstad
St. Olaf College
Northfield, MN

 
 
 

Men's Basketball - Munich '72

Post by John Ree » Sun, 02 Aug 1992 06:58:25

Quote:

> Does anybody remember the complete story of the end of
> the men's basketball championship game between the U.S.
> and USSR in the 1972 summer games?  I seem to remember:
> 1.  U.S. wins after sinking two free throws with 11 seconds to go.
> 2.  Some guy with no authority comes out of stands and says
>     game clock was incorrect.

I believe the Soviets put up one or two shots that bounced off in
the last 11 seconds.

Quote:
> 3.  Time is put back on clock; Soviets get one last chance but miss.
> 4.  Guy with no authority claims not enough time was put back on clock.
> 5.  Time is put back on clock again; this time the Sovs
>     make a last second layup and win the gold medal.

I believe that about 3 seconds was put on each time.  The inbounds pass
was from pretty far away -- the US was pretty disorganized not to
force a hail-Mary instead of allowing the layup.

Quote:
> On NPR last night they had a story about this game and said time
> was put back on the clock only once.  Which is right?

I remember it occuring as described above.

Quote:
> It sounded like this episode infuriated a lot of people!  
> However the other events occuring in Munich at the time kind of makes
> the outcome of some basketball game seem pretty insignificant.

Note the contrast with the resolution of the US/Japan volleyball
dispute.  In '72 the powers-that-be declined to reverse a game outcome
that resulted from blatant, last-play officiating errors.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Reece                      "Oop. Ack. Pfffthpt"  
Not an Intel spokesman                  - Bill the Cat

 
 
 

Men's Basketball - Munich '72

Post by Rodger Madis » Sun, 02 Aug 1992 04:30:44

Quote:

>       Referee error is, sadly, a part of all sports, and the only way to
> overcome it is to beat your opponent so convincingly that it won't matter.
> If two teams are so closely matched that a referee's decision happens to
> decide the final point of a game, neither team should say that they
> absolutely "deserved" to win.  This is true of both the '72 basketball team
> and the '92 volleyball team.

> Just my opinion,
> ecw

Are you satisfied seeing nothing but blowouts?  The object of these games
is to have a fairly contested competition which will result in one team
(or individual) being the winner.  If a game is stolen by a referee's
decision, as happened in the 1972 basketball final, it is NOT the fault of
the (declared) loser for not trouncing their opponent.

cat: /twain/b/rodger/Mail/inbox37: No such file or directory

 
 
 

Men's Basketball - Munich '72

Post by rON » Sun, 02 Aug 1992 10:54:16

Quote:

>Even here in Finland the final of '72 is considered a joke.
>I still wonder why team USA did not make a counter-protest
>over the FIVB's decision...

They did, but their protest was 'not allowed' to be heard.
r.
 
 
 

Men's Basketball - Munich '72

Post by Helena T Robins » Fri, 07 Aug 1992 03:36:55


Quote:
>Does anybody remember the complete story of the end of
>the men's basketball championship game between the U.S.
>and USSR in the 1972 summer games?  
>...
>Incidentally, the U.S. team did not accept the silver medal and
>still have not accepted it.  The gist of the story last night
>is that some of the players (Tommy Burleson was interviewed) are
>ready to forgive the officials and accept the medal, but most
>of the players do not feel they deserve the silver so they don't
>want it.  

Sports Illustrated recently did an in-depth feature on this event; including
statements from almost everyone involved with the team at the time.  It
seems the IOC asks them every four years whether they want to finally accept
the medals, currently locked in a vault in Switzlerland.

Helena Robinson

 
 
 

Men's Basketball - Munich '72

Post by 07850_ » Sat, 08 Aug 1992 07:43:43

Quote:


> >Does anybody remember the complete story of the end of
> >the men's basketball championship game between the U.S.
> >and USSR in the 1972 summer games?  I seem to remember:

> >1.  U.S. wins after sinking two free throws with 11 seconds to go.
> >2.  Some guy with no authority comes out of stands and says
> >    game clock was incorrect.
> >3.  Time is put back on clock; Soviets get one last chance but miss.
> >4.  Guy with no authority claims not enough time was put back on clock.
> >5.  Time is put back on clock again; this time the Sovs
> >    make a last second layup and win the gold medal.

> I seem to remember hearing a similar story.  From what I heard, this was the
> sequence of events:

> 1) Doug Collins makes two free throws with THREE not 11 seconds left.
> 2) Soviets immediately inbound ball while coach was trying to call time.
> 3) Soviets miss half-court shot--USA wins gold.
> 4) Soviet coach complains that he was trying to call time.
> 5) President of International Basketball Federation comes from stands and
>    order 3 seconds placed back on clock, as well as a Soviet time out.
> 6) After time out, Soviets inbound ball, miss half-court shot--USA wins gold.
> 7) President of IFB says that the time out wasn't long enough, orders another
>    3 seconds on the clock.
> 8) Soviets throw full court pass, caught by really tall guy over shorter USA
>    player, Soviet turns and banks a two footer off the glass.  Soviets win
>    gold.9) USA files protest, but is not granted.
> 10) USA refuses to show at medal ceremony while Soviets receive gold.
> 11) To this day, 12 silver medals sit in the vault of a Munich bank...

> That's the way I've heard it..

Sorry to join this discussion late, but after reading several people retell this
fiasco, I still haven't found one the way I remember it. (Rashamon?)

1) The US has a terrible game. With a few minutes to go they are hopelessly
    behind.
2) The US finally gets hot, gets within 1 point and gets possession with time
    almost gone.
3) Doug Collins is fouled with practically no time on the clock, and makes both
    shots under incredible pressure.
4) Soviets in-bound but buzzer sounds "ending the game" as they bring the ball
    to half court. Every one in America goes nuts because they won.
5) It is discovered that there are still 1.5 sec on the clock. The official
    time keeper (from East Europe) illegally set off the final buzzer because
    he realized the USSR coach was trying to call time-out, but his team and
    the officials hadn't noticed. Keep in mind this is the time keeper, not the
    score keeper who normally stops the clock for time outs.
6) It is decided that the only thing to do is to play the final 1.5 sec. USSR
    tries a court length pass that is blocked by the US. Americans go nuts again
    because we won despite the chicanery.
7) Some official comes out of nowhere to say that there should be more than 1.5
    sec on the clock. Somebody picks 3 seconds as a good number to try. At this
    point, everybody realizes that if 3 seconds are not enough for the USSR to
    score, somebody else will say "Give them 6 seconds and let them try a fouth
    time."
8) The USSR tries the court-length pass again. The demoralized Americans fail to
    block it this time and USSR big-man puts in an easy layup.
9) The officials are satisfied that the third time was charmed and stop playing
    the game.
10) The US protests, but it is denied the next day. Medals are passed out, but
    the US team doen't show.
11) The US appeals to somebody else that doesn't meet until the following
    February. Even the time keeper who started the mess admits the US should
    have won. Everyone expects this last body of experts to do the right thing.
    Nevertheless, the protest is denied, for the final time.

This is the only justification I can think of that permits me to root for the
"Dream Team".