Accusations and facts

Accusations and facts

Post by Zi-Wei Ya » Mon, 17 Oct 1994 03:26:33



:>

:>
:>
:> > In 1988, around the time of the Seoul Olympics, Carl Lewis
:> > accused Ben Johnson of taking *** to improve his performance.  He was
:> > careful to express himself in such a way as to not be sued for slander,
:> > but no one was in any doubt as to what he meant.
:> >
:> > And as we later found out, Lewis was 100% correct.

:> How much time did it take to find out Ben Johnson's cheating? How many  
:> surprising test had Ben Johnson received? How did Ben get his accusation?
:> How many western athelete and coaches had accued Ben Johnson before it was
:> revealed? Let the world know the fact please.

:Ben Johnson was under a lot of suspicion around that time.  But Carl Lewis
:came closest to saying what everyone else was thinking.  And what does the
:NUMBER of surprise tests have to do with it?  Nothing I would have thought.

The question is : Did they defame him PUBLICLY ?  No, they dare not. If they
did so, they would be sued for slander. In the case of Chinese, they can
enjoy their freedom of speech, totally.

:Bottom line is - you take the juice - you should be banned.   And he wasn't

No one say NO to it.

:caught by a surprise test anyway - the positive test for Stanozolol(an
:anabolic steroid) was after he won the 100m in Seoul.  This positive was
:confirmed by a second sample of Ben's urine.

:> You have seen how many "extra" tests that the Chinese women received
:> before and during their successful Asian games. I think there will be
:> a whole lot of more such tests. Very unfortunate for you that all the
:> tests are negative...

:Very unfortunate for you that Qu Qiaping (the #4 discus thrower in the
:world, and #1 in Asia) tested positive .  Granted she is not a swimmer, but
:several Chinese swimmers have already tested positive.

1. Qu Qiaping tested positive by who ?  This is the most important point
I want to know.  
The news I read is:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
         HIRPOSHIMA, Japan (Reuter)  by Wahei Sakurai
         It was a mixed day for the Chinese. Their track and field
stars took seven of 10 gold medals on offer in athletics Friday
but once again a drug cloud descended.
         While Liu Xiaomei was crowned Asia's sprint queen and the
first male recruit to Ma's Family Army won gold, the Chinese
team were thrown into turmoil by the revelation that absent
discus thrower Qu Qiaping had failed a dope test.
         In Qu's absence, the women's discus was won by another
Chinese woman, Min Chunfeng, with a throw of 62.52 meters.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

So Qu Qiaping didn't go to Hiroshima. If she tested positive by the Chinese
lab and they annouced it, that will be the opposite evidence to your
argument. IF she tested positive by IAAF, that still doesn't prove all of
Chinese athletes are using ***.  

2. Several Chinese swimmers have already tested positive, so you come to
the conclusion: All of them use ***. Five athletes from UK track and field
team tested positive this summer, should we say all members in that team use
*** ?

:As to extra tests, well I have discussed this elsewhere - but Kieren
:Perkins has had over a dozen tests this year - only 4 or 5 were NOT
:surprise tests - those taken at the various championships.

By who ?  Independent lab from FINA or the Australian lab ?

:snip

:> > An example of this is Ma's athletics squad.  The athletes are all
:> > kept together, and the state can easily impose a drug regime on the
:> > athletes (possibly without the athletes knowledge).  
:> An bad example. I Heard that Ma has been having a lot of trouble with
:> the gov't recently. Ma Has been asking for an appearence fee for his
:> athletes to participate any gov't sponsored activities. To me, Ma's
:> family amy are different from the programs and sports institutes gov't
:> sponsored.

:They are no different in that they all train together under the one coach
: - Ma.  And while we're on the topic of Ma, why is it that he could turn
:out the record breakers at the Chinese national championships, but not
:in Europe - where there are huge rewards for breaking world records.
:Surely if he was after money he could take the team to the World Cup
:circuit, and clean up.

Ma's Army did go to World Cup Marathon held in Spain in 1993, won the team
title and occupied the first four individual places . Whether they will go to
Europe for the circuit next year or not, we have to wait and see.

:I notice they didn't bother going to Barcelona either.
:Good wins there and they could have been talking to Nike for
:megabucks.

If you actually don't know nothing, then don't try to intentionly misguided
other people. Qu Yunxia went to Barcelona and competed in women's 1500m. She
won the bronze medal. The reason that other member in Ma's Army didn't go to
Barcelona is in 1992 they were still junior athletes and no one had heard
of their names even in China. They went to World Junior Track & Field
Championships held two months after Barcelona Olympics, swept all the gold
medals from 800m to 10k. Zhang Linli's winning time in 3000m would have beat
the silver medalist in Barcelona. However, the major breakthrough happened
in 1993.

 
 
 

Accusations and facts

Post by Joshua Saunde » Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:43:20


Quote:



> :Ben Johnson was under a lot of suspicion around that time.  But Carl Lewis
> :came closest to saying what everyone else was thinking.  And what does the
> :NUMBER of surprise tests have to do with it?  Nothing I would have thought.

> The question is : Did they defame him PUBLICLY ?  No, they dare not. If they
> did so, they would be sued for slander. In the case of Chinese, they can
> enjoy their freedom of speech, totally.

They were frank enough - there was plenty of talk about "Johnson's special
training" and "I wonder what he was DOING in Canada"  - Johnson went
back to Canada about 5 weeks before Seoul after being beaten in a World
Cup event - and turned up in Seoul with the most muscular chest and
shoulders I have ever seen on a sprinter.

Quote:

> :> You have seen how many "extra" tests that the Chinese women received
> :> before and during their successful Asian games. I think there will be
> :> a whole lot of more such tests. Very unfortunate for you that all the
> :> tests are negative...

> :Very unfortunate for you that Qu Qiaping (the #4 discus thrower in the
> :world, and #1 in Asia) tested positive .  Granted she is not a swimmer, but
> :several Chinese swimmers have already tested positive.

> 1. Qu Qiaping tested positive by who ?  This is the most important point
> I want to know.  

Why?  You really don't trust anyone but Chinese to test honestly?

snip

Quote:
> 2. Several Chinese swimmers have already tested positive, so you come to
> the conclusion: All of them use ***. Five athletes from UK track and field
> team tested positive this summer, should we say all members in that team use
> *** ?

The difference, as outlined in the post, is that the Chinese system is much
more
"state run".

Quote:

> :As to extra tests, well I have discussed this elsewhere - but Kieren
> :Perkins has had over a dozen tests this year - only 4 or 5 were NOT
> :surprise tests - those taken at the various championships.

> By who ?  Independent lab from FINA or the Australian lab ?

Both, as if that makes a difference...  By the way, the Australian lab
has not been afraid to announce positive tests - the most famous
being Martin Vinnicombe - they tested him 15 times in a year -
and one time he was positive.  Others caught include weightlifters,
powerlifters, footballers, a field athlete (Sue Howland), and others.

Quote:

> :snip

> :I notice they didn't bother going to Barcelona either.
> :Good wins there and they could have been talking to Nike for
> :megabucks.

> If you actually don't know nothing, then don't try to intentionly misguided
> other people. Qu Yunxia went to Barcelona and competed in women's 1500m. She
> won the bronze medal. The reason that other member in Ma's Army didn't go to
> Barcelona is in 1992 they were still junior athletes and no one had heard
> of their names even in China. They went to World Junior Track & Field
> Championships held two months after Barcelona Olympics, swept all the gold
> medals from 800m to 10k. Zhang Linli's winning time in 3000m would have beat
> the silver medalist in Barcelona. However, the major breakthrough happened
> in 1993.

Not many had heard of them a year later either... when they smashed every
record in
the book .  And if they were good enough for the Junior Championships, then
why not
Barcelona?  After all Ma has shown himself to be interested in money - more
of which
would flow from an Olympic win.

--
Joshua Saunders
Department of Pharmacology, Sydney University