Triathlon and Taikwondo

Triathlon and Taikwondo

Post by Richard N Kitch » Tue, 19 Jul 1994 06:36:50


According to a speech made by Juan Antonio Samaranch in Colorado Springs
yesterday, he expects that Triathlon and taikwondo will be added to the
2000 or 2004 Games.  He also said that Salt Lake City has the inside
track for the Winter Games of 2002.

--

History has to be observed.  Otherwise, it's not history.  It's just ...
well, things happening one after another.
--Terry Pratchett, "Small Gods"

 
 
 

Triathlon and Taikwondo

Post by Geoff La » Tue, 19 Jul 1994 08:57:40

I can understand Triathlon being added but Taikwondo????????

How does Taikwondo, a martial art designed for and by professional killers fit
into the Olympic ideal? I thought they were trying to get rid of boxing for
this reason.

Geoff

---
Geoff Lamb, CSIRO Div of Manufacturing Tech,     Phone: +61 3 662 7795
Locked Bag No. 9, Preston, Vic, 3072, Australia. Fax: +61 3 662 7851

Segmentation fault (core dumped)

 
 
 

Triathlon and Taikwondo

Post by Kenneth Strick » Tue, 19 Jul 1994 22:09:52

|>
|> I can understand Triathlon being added but Taikwondo????????
|>
|> How does Taikwondo, a martial art designed for and by professional killers fit
|> into the Olympic ideal? I thought they were trying to get rid of boxing for
|> this reason.
|>
|> Geoff
|>
|> ---
|> Geoff Lamb, CSIRO Div of Manufacturing Tech,     Phone: +61 3 662 7795
|> Locked Bag No. 9, Preston, Vic, 3072, Australia. Fax: +61 3 662 7851

|> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
|>
|>
Excuse me!!!!! As a practicioner of TKD I take EXTREME offense at this statement!
TKD is far from being "designed for and by professional killers", but if you wish
to take that attitude then you must also insist on the removal of all shooting
events, the javalin throw, all track and field (After all it's just
based on running down and killing one's prey), the equestrian events, wrestling,
hockey, gumnastics (remember gymkata?) ... lets see, that leaves us with only
syncronized swimming and ice dancing for your "Ideal Olympics". Now lets deal
with what countries we will "allow" in these games....

 
 
 

Triathlon and Taikwondo

Post by Steve Goldste » Thu, 21 Jul 1994 06:16:52


Quote:

> I can understand Triathlon being added but Taikwondo????????

> How does Taikwondo, a martial art designed for and by professional killers fit
> into the Olympic ideal? I thought they were trying to get rid of boxing for
> this reason.

> Geoff

> ---
> Geoff Lamb, CSIRO Div of Manufacturing Tech,     Phone: +61 3 662 7795
> Locked Bag No. 9, Preston, Vic, 3072, Australia. Fax: +61 3 662 7851

> Segmentation fault (core dumped)

Actually, a very large fraction of all Olympic sports have their historical basis
in military skills.  Back before guns and bombs, things like spears (javelin),
swords (fencing), throwing things (discuss and shotput), arrows (archery), and
general fleetness of foot (track) were important and necessary skills for any
successful army.  And, of course, the shooting sports have been included in all
modern Olympics, too.  IMHO, the rap on boxing is not so much the *** and
personal injury aspect, which is much toned down compared to professional bouts,
but rather the incredibly subjective "judging" that has produced some quite
astonishing medals over the years.

Steve Goldstein
Opinionated SOB

 
 
 

Triathlon and Taikwondo

Post by Perry Friedm » Thu, 21 Jul 1994 06:40:49


Quote:

>> I can understand Triathlon being added but Taikwondo????????

>> How does Taikwondo, a martial art designed for and by professional killers fit
>> into the Olympic ideal? I thought they were trying to get rid of boxing for
>> this reason.

>> Geoff

>> ---
>> Geoff Lamb, CSIRO Div of Manufacturing Tech,     Phone: +61 3 662 7795
>> Locked Bag No. 9, Preston, Vic, 3072, Australia. Fax: +61 3 662 7851

>> Segmentation fault (core dumped)

>Actually, a very large fraction of all Olympic sports have their historical basis
>in military skills.  Back before guns and bombs, things like spears (javelin),
>swords (fencing), throwing things (discuss and shotput), arrows (archery), and
>general fleetness of foot (track) were important and necessary skills for any
>successful army.  And, of course, the shooting sports have been included in all
>modern Olympics, too.  IMHO, the rap on boxing is not so much the *** and
>personal injury aspect, which is much toned down compared to professional bouts,
>but rather the incredibly subjective "judging" that has produced some quite
>astonishing medals over the years.

Uh, and sports like figure skating haven't?

Actually, this brings up the whole thread of "athletic art" versus sport,
but I'll skip that for now.
Boxing has much less subjectivity to it than figure skating.  There are
no points for "artistic impression."  And you don't, unlike pro-boxing,
even get to count how hard someone was hit with each punch.  It is
a matter of how many "scoring" punches each fighter lands.  Period.
A quick, featherlight jab, is worth the same as an uppercut or hook
to the jaw.  With computerized punch counts, boxing judging is getting
less and less subjective, although still subject to human error.

Still, if you run or skate a distance faster than anyone else or throw something
further, etc., it is quite clear who the champion is and more or less indisputable.
But who can say who the best figure skater in the world is? boxer?
diver?  gymnast? synchronized swimmer?

Not to take anything away from people who compete in what I term
athletic arts (synch swimming, rhythmic gymnastics, figure skating,
etc.) - they all require a lot of athletic ability.  However, it is
very difficult to stake a claim of who is "the best" at these without
being subjective.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>Steve Goldstein
>Opinionated SOB

 
 
 

Triathlon and Taikwondo

Post by SteveA91 » Thu, 21 Jul 1994 12:22:04


Quote:
(Geoff Lamb) writes:
>how is Taikwondo to be allowed as a sport?

From Steve9192
Although it is a martial art it is the only one in which international
rules have been adopted to modify the contest as a sport.  The nature of
the contact has been changed to award for points, through speed and
accuracy, as opposed to knocking the opponent out.

While this appears to contradict what martial arts are, there is still an
element of danger by uncontrolled punches and kicks.  Anybody else have
any comments?

 
 
 

Triathlon and Taikwondo

Post by Mike Kw » Thu, 21 Jul 1994 23:08:18

: I can understand Triathlon being added but Taikwondo????????

: How does Taikwondo, a martial art designed for and by professional killers fit
: into the Olympic ideal? I thought they were trying to get rid of boxing for
: this reason.

Have you ever watched an international Taikwondo tournament?  I think that
perhaps you are judging the sport as you see it in your mind, and not
judging the implementation as a sport.

: Geoff

: ---
: Geoff Lamb, CSIRO Div of Manufacturing Tech,     Phone: +61 3 662 7795
: Locked Bag No. 9, Preston, Vic, 3072, Australia. Fax: +61 3 662 7851

: Segmentation fault (core dumped)

 
 
 

Triathlon and Taikwondo

Post by fsj.. » Fri, 22 Jul 1994 03:09:50

Quote:

> I can understand Triathlon being added but Taikwondo????????

> How does Taikwondo, a martial art designed for and by professional killers fit
> into the Olympic ideal? I thought they were trying to get rid of boxing for
> this reason.

> Geoff

> --I think PROFESSIONAL KILLERS is a far-too-extreme term to use for Tae Kwon

Do.  Maybe you know nothing about the style...or any martial art, for that
matter...but the fact remains that killing is done by assassins and martial
artists tend to use their art only for competition purposes or that
ever-popular thing called SELF-DEFENSE.   Believe me, though, that sport Tae
Kwon Do would be a lot more graphic (including deaths) if it were anything like
you're interpreting it to be.  Like boxing, it's techniquely based on a point
system...and if someone accidently gets knocked out...then that competitor's
TKD instructor is going to have to remind him to block or get out of the way.

        I got a question for you...did you watch the last TKD event in
Barcelona?  If so, maybe you would've noticed that it was kinda tame...I've
seen (and participated in) Karate & TKD tournaments that were far more intense.
                                        -Sensei Jam

 
 
 

Triathlon and Taikwondo

Post by Michelle L. Brickn » Sat, 23 Jul 1994 04:34:18

On Tae Kwon Do being an olympic sport.....

I am in a Tae Kwon Do club at my University. My Master Instructor is one
of the international referees. Last I recall, it was to be decided this
year whether or not TKD was going to be included in the next Olympics.
Has anyone heard if this is definate yet? I could probably find out thru
my instructor, but I wouldnt want him to think that _I_ wanted to go!

Just an interested bystander....
Michelle Brickner

 
 
 

Triathlon and Taikwondo

Post by Joshua Saunde » Sat, 23 Jul 1994 13:58:05


Quote:

> How does Taikwondo, a martial art designed for and by professional killers fit
> into the Olympic ideal? I thought they were trying to get rid of boxing for
> this reason.

At the same time as the IOC announced this decision, they also stated that
boxing would continue to
be part of the Games for the foreseeable future.
--
Joshua Saunders, Dept of Pharmacology, University of Sydney.


 
 
 

Triathlon and Taikwondo

Post by J Andrew Lipscom » Sat, 23 Jul 1994 16:34:47

Quote:

>How does Taikwondo, a martial art designed for and by professional killers fit
>into the Olympic ideal? I thought they were trying to get rid of boxing for
>this reason.

Taekwondo as now practiced is nothing like what you describe.  It subscribes
to many of the same ideals as judo, an Olympic sport for 30 years.

And the reason they want boxing out is unrelated... it's the judging contro-
versies.  (They adopt a new computerized system in response to the 1988 Roy
Jones fiasco, and then Eric griffin gets a loss despite being the winner on
all five virtual cards and alfive old-fashioned backup cards!)

 
 
 

Triathlon and Taikwondo

Post by Geoff La » Fri, 29 Jul 1994 16:17:16


Quote:

>> I can understand Triathlon being added but Taikwondo????????

>> How does Taikwondo, a martial art designed for and by professional killers fit
>> into the Olympic ideal? I thought they were trying to get rid of boxing for
>> this reason.

>> Geoff

>> --I think PROFESSIONAL KILLERS is a far-too-extreme term to use for Tae Kwon
>Do.  Maybe you know nothing about the style...or any martial art, for that
>matter...but the fact remains that killing is done by assassins and martial
>artists tend to use their art only for competition purposes or that
>ever-popular thing called SELF-DEFENSE.   Believe me, though, that sport Tae
>Kwon Do would be a lot more graphic (including deaths) if it were anything like
>you're interpreting it to be.  Like boxing, it's techniquely based on a point
>system...and if someone accidently gets knocked out...then that competitor's
>TKD instructor is going to have to remind him to block or get out of the way.

>    I got a question for you...did you watch the last TKD event in
>Barcelona?  If so, maybe you would've noticed that it was kinda tame...I've
>seen (and participated in) Karate & TKD tournaments that were far more intense.
>                                    -Sensei Jam

TKD is exactly the sort of sport that they are trying to get rid of from the
Olympics. It is Jugded, it is ***, the object is to HIT your opponent, if
possible knock him out. This is not a sport that lives up to the Olympic ideals
of peace and frendship (whatever that means.)

The ONLY reason that TKD is even getting a look in is because
Samaranche's buddy and VP of the IOC is the South Korean "Kim" (or something like
that) This South Korean was the head of the South Korean Secret Service and one
time instructor in TKD, was appointed to the IOC before SK became a democratic
nation, but as IOC members are appointed for life, he can't be kicked out by SK.

TKD schools around the world were used as fronts for the Korean Secret Service,
were they regularly grabbed foreign nationals to take them back to Korea. Kim
was the leader of the Secret Service at this time.

Out of this the "sport" of TKD developed.

All of this info has been taken out of Australia's Inside sport in an article
by the guys who wrote "lord of the rings" I don't have the article here at work
so I can't remember the exact names :-)

But if you think obout what sports that the IOC have been thinking about getting
rid of and the ones that cause the most controversy, then there is know way that
TKD should even be considered. Beacause of Kim's power in the IOC it is going to
be a full sport.

Geoff

---
Geoff Lamb, CSIRO Div of Manufacturing Tech,     Phone: +61 3 662 7795
Locked Bag No. 9, Preston, Vic, 3072, Australia. Fax: +61 3 662 7851

Segmentation fault (core dumped)

 
 
 

Triathlon and Taikwondo

Post by Kenneth Strick » Sat, 30 Jul 1994 22:30:34

|> TKD is exactly the sort of sport that they are trying to get rid of from the
|> Olympics. It is Jugded, it is ***, the object is to HIT your opponent, if
|> possible knock him out. This is not a sport that lives up to the Olympic ideals
|> of peace and frendship (whatever that means.)

You obviously have little knowldge of TKD and TKD tournaments. It is EXTREMELY
rare for anyone to be knocked out in a TKD tourney. Punches are not allowed to
the head, and kicks to the head MUST be controlled. Throwing a technique with
clear intent to injure an opponent is a quick way to get yourself disqualified
from the tournament.

|> The ONLY reason that TKD is even getting a look in is because
|> Samaranche's buddy and VP of the IOC is the South Korean "Kim" (or something like
|> that) This South Korean was the head of the South Korean Secret Service and one
|> time instructor in TKD, was appointed to the IOC before SK became a democratic
|> nation, but as IOC members are appointed for life, he can't be kicked out by SK.

Gee, and here I thought that it was because each Olympic host country (i.e.
Korea in '88) is allowed to add "Demonstration" events (like the US and
vollyball).

|> TKD schools around the world were used as fronts for the Korean Secret Service,
|> were they regularly grabbed foreign nationals to take them back to Korea. Kim
|> was the leader of the Secret Service at this time.

Boy are my bosses going to be pissed! I would like to address this on further,
but i have to go see if those communists are still under my bed. Oh No! now
they're crawling up my leg. There's six more in the cubbord. AARGH!!!

 
 
 

Triathlon and Taikwondo

Post by JJS » Tue, 04 Oct 1994 00:32:06


Quote:
(Geoff Lamb) writes:

       >>>>TKD is exactly the sort of sport that they are trying to get
rid of from the
Olympics. It is Jugded, it is ***, the object is to HIT your opponent,
if
possible knock him out. This is not a sport that lives up to the Olympic
ideals
of peace and frendship (whatever that means.)<<<<

Let's face it, the Olympics is also very much about international politics
and money. The inclusion of certain sports in the Games isn't just about
peace and friendship, it's also about money and power.