PENS/BLUES - who's more talented?

PENS/BLUES - who's more talented?

Post by Gary Kenneth Wilso » Tue, 19 Jul 1994 22:38:36


For the last few years, few people could argue that the Penguins have
had the most talented (but not healthy) team in the league.  Detroit
hinted at challenging last year, but fluke performances by boys like Ray
Sheppard won't last.  However, with the new and improved St. Louis
lineup, I have to wonder who has the most talented boys on their squad?

PENGUINS        BLUES

GOALIES - Blues obviously kick ***here.
Barrasso        Joseph
Wreggett        Casey

DEFENSE - Blues will score more, but the Pens can play defense.
Murphy          MacInnis
Samuellson(s)   Duchesne

CENTER - Pens are superior, Blues are healthy
Lemieux         Janney
Francis         Nedved

WINGS - your call
Jagr            Hull
Stevens         Shanahan
Mullen          Miller

COACH - not even close
Johnston        Keenan

My vote: St. Louis by a hair

pbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpb

"If a man's gonna' eat fried chicken, he's gotta' get greasy."

                                             - Kenny Rogers.

pbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpb

 
 
 

PENS/BLUES - who's more talented?

Post by Chen Wa » Wed, 20 Jul 1994 00:50:55


Quote:

>For the last few years, few people could argue that the Penguins have
>had the most talented (but not healthy) team in the league.  Detroit
>hinted at challenging last year, but fluke performances by boys like Ray
>Sheppard won't last.  However, with the new and improved St. Louis
>lineup, I have to wonder who has the most talented boys on their squad?

>PENGUINS        BLUES

>GOALIES - Blues obviously kick ***here.
>Barrasso        Joseph
>Wreggett        Casey

>DEFENSE - Blues will score more, but the Pens can play defense.
>Murphy          MacInnis
>Samuellson(s)   Duchesne

>CENTER - Pens are superior, Blues are healthy
>Lemieux         Janney
>Francis         Nedved

    Not only superior, Blues don't even come close.  Blues are
extrememly weak at center.

Quote:
>WINGS - your call
>Jagr            Hull
>Stevens         Shanahan
>Mullen          Miller

    uhhhhh, first of all, I don't expect Hull to stick around and
even with him there, Penguins are superior.  Don't forget about
Tochet.

Quote:
>COACH - not even close
>Johnston        Keenan

>My vote: St. Louis by a hair

    Not even close.  Pittsburgh.

    First of all, you got to look at the whole team.  Pittsburgh is
a team.  I'm not sure about St. Louis.  
    I'm not familiar enough with Pittsburgh and St. Louis to go
over everyman but if you were to take that approach of comparing
talent, Toronto would beat you guys hands down.

Goalie
Cujo, Casey vs. Potvin and Rhodes and soon Eric Fichaut.
Most would pick Toronto.

Defense
Duschene, MacInnis vs. Johnson, Mironov, Ellet.  
MacInnis is the best of the lot but on a team basis, Toronto is
far superior on defense.

Center
Janney, Nedved  vs. Gilmour, Sundin and now Ridley.
Janney and Nedved are two tiers below both Gilmour and Sundin.
NOt even close, Toronto.

Wingers
Shananhan and Hull vs. Andreychuck, Gartner.
Here St. Louis has an edge in terms of pure scoring power but Hull
won't be around too long.

Coach & GM
Keenan vs. Pat Burns and Cliff Fletcher.
No one is more respected than Cliff and with Keenan's exploits with
NY Rangers, he's lost a lot of respect.

Grinders.
Who does St. Louis have??  Everyone else on Toronto are class players.

Intangibles.
St. Louis isn't really a team.  Its divided into two factions that
dislike each other.  Toronto is a team with great chemistry.  It may
have suffered a bit with the trading of Wendel, but there was a lot
there to begin with.

So on this basis, Toronto is a more talented team than St. Louis.
Well, it is true to begin with but don't forget there's more to a
team than just a few heads.

 
 
 

PENS/BLUES - who's more talented?

Post by David Johns » Wed, 20 Jul 1994 01:32:26



Quote:

>For the last few years, few people could argue that the Penguins have
>had the most talented (but not healthy) team in the league.  Detroit
>hinted at challenging last year, but fluke performances by boys like Ray
>Sheppard won't last.  However, with the new and improved St. Louis
>lineup, I have to wonder who has the most talented boys on their squad?

>PENGUINS        BLUES

>GOALIES - Blues obviously kick ***here.
>Barrasso        Joseph
>Wreggett        Casey

Blues are better but only because of Joseph.

Quote:

>DEFENSE - Blues will score more, but the Pens can play defense.
>Murphy          MacInnis
>Samuellson(s)   Duchesne

Most teams use *6* defen*** not 2.

Quote:

>CENTER - Pens are superior, Blues are healthy
>Lemieux         Janney
>Francis         Nedved

If Lemieux can play the whole season he will score more goals, and get more
points than all of the Blues centers combined.

Quote:

>WINGS - your call
>Jagr            Hull
>Stevens         Shanahan
>Mullen          Miller

Pens in a landslide.  Jagr is better than Hull, Shanahan is slightly better
than Stevens and Mullen is better than Miller.  You also forgot Tochett.

Quote:

>COACH - not even close
>Johnston        Keenan

>My vote: St. Louis by a hair

Pens by quite a bit.  After the guys you mentioned St. Louis ain't got much.
Better players are more important than a good coach.  When 100% healthy
Pittsburgh has better players and more depth than St. Louis.

--David Johnson

Quote:

>pbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpb

>"If a man's gonna' eat fried chicken, he's gotta' get greasy."

>                                             - Kenny Rogers.

>pbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpb


 
 
 

PENS/BLUES - who's more talented?

Post by Konstantinos Rouss » Wed, 20 Jul 1994 03:25:58

Quote:


>    Not even close.  Pittsburgh.

>    First of all, you got to look at the whole team.  Pittsburgh is
>a team.  I'm not sure about St. Louis.  
>    I'm not familiar enough with Pittsburgh and St. Louis to go
>over everyman but if you were to take that approach of comparing
>talent, Toronto would beat you guys hands down.

>Goalie
>Cujo, Casey vs. Potvin and Rhodes and soon Eric Fichaut.
>Most would pick Toronto.

And most Toronto fans argue that Montreal has more Leaf fans than
Canadiens fans... BULLSHIT. CuJo faces more shots, stops more of them
and has more difficulty

OFFENCE :

St Louis.

TEAM DEFENCE :
Toronto

But with Keenan I suspect St. Louis' defensive problems will be less significant than Toronto offensive problems.

Quote:
>Keenan vs. Pat Burns and Cliff Fletcher.

Keenan has won more, done more than either Burns or Fletcher have.  So
he jumps boat, BIG DEAL. He is still light years ahead of Burns and
Fletcher.

Quote:

>So on this basis, Toronto is a more talented team than St. Louis.
>Well, it is true to begin with but don't forget there's more to a
>team than just a few heads.

No, on this basis you are wrong.

cheers,
kostadsi

--
                            -Kernighan n' Ritchie -

 
 
 

PENS/BLUES - who's more talented?

Post by Chen Wa » Wed, 20 Jul 1994 04:30:15

Quote:



>>    Not even close.  Pittsburgh.

>>    First of all, you got to look at the whole team.  Pittsburgh is
>>a team.  I'm not sure about St. Louis.  
>>    I'm not familiar enough with Pittsburgh and St. Louis to go
>>over everyman but if you were to take that approach of comparing
>>talent, Toronto would beat you guys hands down.

>>Goalie
>>Cujo, Casey vs. Potvin and Rhodes and soon Eric Fichaut.
>>Most would pick Toronto.

>And most Toronto fans argue that Montreal has more Leaf fans than
>Canadiens fans... BULLSHIT. CuJo faces more shots, stops more of them
>and has more difficulty

    A bit too bitter aren't we??  Cujo gets pounded from everywhere
and no doubt he's an excellent goalie but Potvin just because Potvin
doesn't get plastered with 50 shots a game, doesn't mean he isn't
as good.  Afterall who won the Casey vs. Potvin showdown two years
ago??

Quote:
>OFFENCE :

>St Louis.

>TEAM DEFENCE :
>Toronto

>But with Keenan I suspect St. Louis' defensive problems will be less significant than Toronto offensive problems.

    Gilmour, Sundin, Andreychuk, Gartner??  Please.  Janney and Neved
are third rate at best.  Give it up.  Shanahan and Hull are you're
only two snipers.  They're great but Gilmour is the best
non-megastar center.  (mega star centres are Gretzky, Lemieux and Lindros)

Quote:
>>Keenan vs. Pat Burns and Cliff Fletcher.

>Keenan has won more, done more than either Burns or Fletcher have.  So
>he jumps boat, BIG DEAL. He is still light years ahead of Burns and
>Fletcher.

    He jumps boat  BIG DEAL???  He tells all of his players not to
be quitters and then he quits and leaves Chicago.  Then, because he
doesn't get his damm bonus cheque on time, he declares breach of
contract??  I know a lot of Detroit fans won't forgive him for
leaving Yzerman off of Team Canada in 87.  Sure Keanan still won
but with Gretzky and Lemiuex how couldn't he?

    There is no one in the league with the respect and dignity of
a Cliff Fletcher.  Keanan only keeps on losing his.

Quote:

>>So on this basis, Toronto is a more talented team than St. Louis.
>>Well, it is true to begin with but don't forget there's more to a
>>team than just a few heads.

>No, on this basis you are wrong.

    We'll see when hockey season begins.
 
 
 

PENS/BLUES - who's more talented?

Post by Nelson » Wed, 20 Jul 1994 10:32:12



Quote:

>For the last few years, few people could argue that the Penguins have
>had the most talented (but not healthy) team in the league.  Detroit
>hinted at challenging last year, but fluke performances by boys like Ray
>Sheppard won't last.  However, with the new and improved St. Louis
>lineup, I have to wonder who has the most talented boys on their squad?

[Comparisons of players deleted]

Except that hockey is a game of 20 players against 20 players, not 9 against
9.  St. Louis still has some depth problems that it needs to conquer.

===============================================================================
[.sig on vacation]
===============================================================================

rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks

 
 
 

PENS/BLUES - who's more talented?

Post by Rob Polins » Fri, 22 Jul 1994 13:06:50


Quote:
>>PENGUINS        BLUES

>>GOALIES - Blues obviously kick ***here.
>>Barrasso        Joseph
>>Wreggett        Casey

>Blues are better but only because of Joseph.

Agreed.

Quote:
>>DEFENSE - Blues will score more, but the Pens can play defense.
>>Murphy          MacInnis
>>Samuellson(s)   Duchesne
>Most teams use *6* defen*** not 2.

Yes, but the Penguins are lucky to have 3 defen***, let alone 6.

Quote:
>>CENTER - Pens are superior, Blues are healthy
>>Lemieux         Janney
>>Francis         Nedved

>If Lemieux can play the whole season he will score more goals, and get more
>points than all of the Blues centers combined.

Kind of extreme, but we see your point.

Quote:
>>WINGS - your call
>>Jagr            Hull
>>Stevens         Shanahan
>>Mullen          Miller

>Pens in a landslide.  Jagr is better than Hull, Shanahan is slightly better
>than Stevens and Mullen is better than Miller.  You also forgot Tochett.

Mullen tailed off towards the end of last year (is age finally showing?),
Stevens is still a ???? as he hasn't shown if he can recover yet.
McEachern is on the same level as Miller.  Pens in a slight edge.

Quote:
>>COACH - not even close
>>Johnston        Keenan
>>My vote: St. Louis by a hair

>Pens by quite a bit.  After the guys you mentioned St. Louis ain't got much.
>Better players are more important than a good coach.  When 100% healthy

Yes and no.  Sure a coach needs the best possible players.  But the players
need a good coach, too.  Johnston is the Penguins "You can stand behind the
bench as long as you let the guys do what they want" coach while Keenan is
the opposite extreme -- the Blues "Do it my way or else.  If you do, you'll
probably win, but sometimes I fly off the handle and***up the whole
team" coach.  Keenan almost blew the Cup this year when he had it wrapped
up.  

Both are far from an ideal coach, but Keenan can get the guys to win if
everyone co-operates with him.

Quote:
>Pittsburgh has better players and more depth than St. Louis.
>--David Johnson

Overall, I'd give it to Pittsburgh by a hair.  I don't think either is a
*serious* Cup contender in '94-'95 though.

--

Home of Nittany Lions * RT30 -- The Charts! * RT30--#1 Selling The Drama-Live
Volleyball -- 1994    * 95 Subscribers!     * July-- 2 Stay-Lisa Loeb
NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!   * Subscribe Today     *  16 -- 3 December 1963-4 Seasons

 
 
 

PENS/BLUES - who's more talented?

Post by The Bry G » Sat, 30 Jul 1994 10:52:13


Quote:

>Subject: PENS/BLUES - who's more talented?
>Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 09:38:36 -0400
>For the last few years, few people could argue that the Penguins have
>had the most talented (but not healthy) team in the league.  Detroit
>hinted at challenging last year, but fluke performances by boys like Ray
>Sheppard won't last.  However, with the new and improved St. Louis
>lineup, I have to wonder who has the most talented boys on their squad?
>PENGUINS        BLUES
>GOALIES - Blues obviously kick ***here.
>Barrasso        Joseph
>Wreggett        Casey
>DEFENSE - Blues will score more, but the Pens can play defense.
>Murphy          MacInnis
>Samuellson(s)   Duchesne
>CENTER - Pens are superior, Blues are healthy
>Lemieux         Janney
>Francis         Nedved
>WINGS - your call
>Jagr            Hull
>Stevens         Shanahan
>Mullen          Miller
>COACH - not even close
>Johnston        Keenan
>My vote: St. Louis by a hair

Yes, but hockey is played with 18 men on a bench and you did forget

Tocchet, Straka, Naslund, McEachren & Hawgood - and don't forget the best

GM in the business (by far) - Craig Patrick.

St. Louis will be fighting to keep in mid-pack as they have every other

year while the Pens once again champion the most difficult division in

the league.

 |\/\/\/|  "I didn't do it! No one saw me do it! You can't prove
 |      |   anything man!"
 |      |
 | (o)(o)
 C    _)|
  |,___ /  --------------------------------------------------------------
  |   /    Bryan Altmann
 /    \  ----------------------------------------------------------------