Isles trades.. The BIG picture

Isles trades.. The BIG picture

Post by Gary L. Da » Sat, 08 Apr 1995 04:00:00


: Pierre Turgeon is not the franchise player he was made out to be.

Turgeon needs a supporting cast ... when he couldn't function without
on in Buffalo, they ran him out of town ... he looked good on LI for
a while when he had one ... when that disappeared, he headed south.
Now he's got support around him in Montreal and he did all right the
first night ... maybe the psychological factor in Montreal will help
him, or maybe it'll crush him like it did to Denis Savard ... but his
father is probably eating this all up while it lasts ... (-;

: Vladimir Malakhov was a player with a lot of talent but he didn't
: want to play all the time. He was a head case,

The sentiment in Winnipeg when he lift was, "Good riddance!" ...

: Benoit Hogue : He overacheived the last few years in my eyes.

Bennie could do well again in Toronto, it's just that right now the
Islanders could score a million goals and not get anywhere ... they
have to unload and start fresh again.  I anticipate more veterans
moving today (4/7) and during the break.

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


good Canadian-edition car 90-91, Winnipeg/Calgary or IL/WI/MN/IN"

 
 
 

Isles trades.. The BIG picture

Post by DJ Powersla » Sat, 08 Apr 1995 04:00:00

As Islander fans a lot of us are jumping down the throats of Don Maloney
(who I thought sucked until we got Fichaud, now I just dont like him). We
need to look at the Big Picture.. this is my take on the first 2 trades

Pierre Turgeon is not the franchise player he was made out to be. He will
however be the franchise player he was made out to be in Montreal where
is playing on an all-star line. His work ethic will not change anytime
soon so don't expect that to happen.

Vladimir Malakhov was a player with a lot of talent but he didn't want to
play all the time. He was a head case, and if you saw Ray Ferraro's
comments in the newspaper today you will see not many of his team-mates
appreciated his attitude.

Benoit Hogue : He overacheived the last few years in my eyes. His points
totals were more then he will get in the future. He wont amount to much
on Toronto. One has to wonder what Cliff Fletcher saw in him to give up
what he did. I'm not saying he is a bad player, just we as Islander fans
are over-rating him... Getting rid of him leaves more room for Ziggy
Palffy to get more ice time.

1995 3rd round choice : 1995 is one of the worst draft years in recent
memory, there is no clear cut #1, I don't even think there are that many
rounds of talent. We lose nothing here.

1996 5th round choice : well its too early to say what the 1996 draft
will hold, but its a late round pick, we wont miss much here, and we can
always get it thrown back in a later deal.

--------

Kirk Muller : Ok, so he is not a franchise player, but he is a player who
will lead by example. We have a lot of youth coming up and he will show
what grit is all about. New Jersey lacks a star center and they are doing
well. Even though they got off to a slow start this year. Kirk Muller
brings presense to this team, something they lacked in the previous years.
With the resigning of Thomas promised by Don Maloney, the Isles have to
players of a Similar mold that will show the guys what hard work is all
about. (Unless Thomas remains a head case). Muller will lead by example.

Matthieu Schneider :  who wanted $2 million canadien dollars in a new
contract will be seeking something equivlant in US funds. The supposedly
cash poor Isles said they will sign him. They better. He is the key to
this deal. He said upon the trade "i hope can be more offensive in NY, in
montreal it was defense first. For him to score 20goals last year when
its D first is outstanding. This guy will make us forget Malakhov in a
hurry. He is a star in the making. I know the french canadiens didn't like
him but I'm sure that it was more politics then anything else.

Eric Fichaud : This kid will be outstanding. Rarely has a highly touted
french canadien goalie flopped. He has been compared to Roy/Potvin and
will definitly be the #1 goalie for years to come. Salo was not the
answer. With the exception of Hasek I cant recall a SOLID goalie to come
out of Europe. Fichaud one weakness could be his size, which is only 5'11
160, but at 19, he should gain some physical weight.

---

 To sum this up, sure we lost some razzle-dazzle and some offense, but we
have gained an Identity. That Identity isn't one of a "bone-head" trade
but one of a team taking direction. We now have grit, and determination
as well as teachers for our youth. We were mediocre at best over the past
3 years, and we cant get any worse. These moves were the right moves for
a team that will need 3 more years to compete at a level for Stanley Cup
contention.

12hrs to the deadline, I'm sure we haven't heard the last of this.

-barry (DJ-)

 
 
 

Isles trades.. The BIG picture

Post by Bobb » Sun, 09 Apr 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
>>Pierre Turgeon is not the franchise player he was made out to be. He will
>however be the franchise player he was made out to be in Montreal where
>is playing on an all-star line. His work ethic will not change anytime
>soon so don't expect that to happen.

Maybe this tells us that the Islanders should have gotten him All-Star
capable linemates during his 3+years with the team......most other teams
build around their young, talented players...while the Islanders stick
players like this with whoever hangs around long enough and just cross
their fingers, hoping.....

Quote:
>>Vladimir Malakhov was a player with a lot of talent but he didn't want to
>play all the time. He was a head case, and if you saw Ray Ferraro's
>comments in the newspaper today you will see not many of his team-mates
>appreciated his attitude.

While I agree that Malakhov may have had some motivation problems, I have
to wonder why people didn't make the same 3-5 year allowance that it
supposedly takes defen*** to fully adjust to the NHL like they do for
other defen***.  
Have to admit, tho, that I don't mind this end of the deal...I've always
liked Schneider, and it may have been time for Vladi to move on.  Just
wondering about the "double-standard".

Quote:
>>Benoit Hogue : He overacheived the last few years in my eyes. His points
>totals were more then he will get in the future. He wont amount to much
>on Toronto. One has to wonder what Cliff Fletcher saw in him to give up
>what he did. I'm not saying he is a bad player, just we as Islander fans
>are over-rating him... Getting rid of him leaves more room for Ziggy
>Palffy to get more ice time.

I don't know if he overacheived...his skills are clearly in the 30 goal
range.  I think his significant dip in production is directly related to
playing in a passive game plan.  His best asset is by far his skating
ability....when you take the ice away from skaters by forcing them to play
a read-and-react, wait in the neutral-zone type of game, you reduce their
effectiveness quite a bit.  I questioned the implementation of the Neutral
Zone Trap from the beginning with this team, especially given that the
team roster was filled with skaters who thrived in an active, puck-chasing
game plan.  These players were: Hogue, McInnis, Green, Turgeon, Thomas,
Ferraro, Palffy, and Ron Sutter.  It's no coincedence that most of these
same players have struggled offensively.  

Quote:
>>1995 3rd round choice : 1995 is one of the worst draft years in recent
>memory, there is no clear cut #1, I don't even think there are that many
>rounds of talent. We lose nothing here.

No problem here.

Quote:
>>1996 5th round choice : well its too early to say what the 1996 draft
>will hold, but its a late round pick, we wont miss much here, and we can
>always get it thrown back in a later deal.

No problem here, either.
--------

Quote:
>>Kirk Muller : Ok, so he is not a franchise player, but he is a player who
>will lead by example. We have a lot of youth coming up and he will show
>what grit is all about. New Jersey lacks a star center and they are doing
>well. Even though they got off to a slow start this year. Kirk Muller
>brings presense to this team, something they lacked in the previous years.
>With the resigning of Thomas promised by Don Maloney, the Isles have to
>players of a Similar mold that will show the guys what hard work is all
>about. (Unless Thomas remains a head case). Muller will lead by example.

I love Kirk Muller as a player, leader, whatever.  I, too, will like
seeing him don an Islander uniform.  Trouble is, now he may be causing
some "contractual stink"...where he may need to have his contract
"adjusted" now that he's playing in the US...hmmm....Add this to our other
"character" player Steve Thomas' bitter contract problems, and now our
kids will be learning the wrong things, wouldn't you say?

In light of this, I do have to question what the Islanders gave up in
order to acquire Muller.  *Especially* after his less-than-inspirational
production over the last year and a half.
Very few "marquee" players in the league pull their team to prominence
without the help of the team that surrounds them.  It took Mario Lemieux a
good four or five years to make the Penguins a playoff-calibre team, and
that was only after players like Kevin Stevens, Ron Francis, Rick Tocchet,
and others were added to the team to provide "grit", "Leadership", and
whatever.  Same thing can be said for Joe Sakic...his team didn't "arrive"
until others were added to his team:  Owen Nolan, Wendel Clark, Mike
Ricci, etc.  How about Wayne Gretzky and the Kings?  Even a gritty guy
like Doug Gilmour didn't single-handedly pull the Leafs into the
Playoffs....he had help from teammates like Andreychuk, Zezel, Glenn
Anderson, Foligno, etc.  How about the "ultimate" leader Mark Messier?  He
couldn't deliver the Cup without Leetch (who was the Conn Smythe winner),
Richter, Tikkanen, Larmer, etc.  Who have the Islanders added to help
Turgeon?

Why couldn't the Islanders build around Turgeon like all these other teams
did around their "marqee" players?  I'd like to see where the Penguins,
Rangers, Leafs, and Nordiques would be without their supporting casts.  
Kirk Muller would have been an ideal player to add to a team that includes
Pierre Turgeon.  Instead, the Isles, as usual, bungled this chance to
build the team the correct way and they traded their marquee talent for
the support.  Huh???

Would the Penguins have been the excellent team they were during their
Cup-years had they traded Lemiuex for gritty players?  What would have
happened if the Rangers traded Messier to acquire Steve Larmer?  Pretty
absurd, huh?  
Then tell me, why did the Islanders do this?

Are they stupid?  Nothing that this management committee has done before
has done anything to prove otherwise...this smells like yet another
blunder by them.

Quote:
>>Matthieu Schneider :  who wanted $2 million canadien dollars in a new
>contract will be seeking something equivlant in US funds. The supposedly
>cash poor Isles said they will sign him. They better. He is the key to
>this deal. He said upon the trade "i hope can be more offensive in NY, in
>montreal it was defense first. For him to score 20goals last year when
>its D first is outstanding. This guy will make us forget Malakhov in a
>hurry. He is a star in the making. I know the french canadiens didn't like
>him but I'm sure that it was more politics then anything else.

Isn't it "Defense-first" under Henning, too?  That's the way it was when
Turgeon, Malakhov and Hogue were here, and if they didn't change the
philosophy with these players, what makes you think they'll accomodate the
new arrivals by changing their game plan (yet again)?  Espcecially when
the 3 guys we just traded had a ton more in the way of offensive
inclination and talent than who we acquired.  
If they DO allow Schneider to concentrate on offense first, as you imply,
then this is *very* hypocritical of the team, especially when we had
tremendous amount of offensive talent in Malakhov (undoubtedly more than
the amount that Schneider brings).  I sincerely doubt they will give him
the green light when they *never* gave it to Malakhov....who knows, maybe
if they did, he woud have progressed his game?  This is very flawed.

Quote:
>>Eric Fichaud : This kid will be outstanding. Rarely has a highly touted
>french canadien goalie flopped. He has been compared to Roy/Potvin and
>will definitly be the #1 goalie for years to come. Salo was not the
>answer. With the exception of Hasek I cant recall a SOLID goalie to come
>out of Europe. Fichaud one weakness could be his size, which is only 5'11
>160, but at 19, he should gain some physical weight.

Again, I agree with this acquisition, but how can you be so sure that Salo
won't cut it?  Have you EVER seen him play in the NHL?  Or are you writing
him off soley on the basis of his heritage?  That's very weak, pal.  And
offensive, too.
For all we know, Salo can be to the Isles what Pelle Lindbergh was to the
Flyers....or what Hasek is to the Sabres.  He might even be what Jim Carey
or Blaine Lacher are to their respective teams.   To write him off without
giving him a chance is complete idiocy.  
This deal, when taken by itself, is an excellent one.  But in light of the
situation the Islanders are in, I'm not so sure it was wise.  Maybe it
would have served the team better to acquire some offense, too.   Wouldn't
that be more of a pressing need than acquiring our SIXTH (6th) goaltending
prospect, especially since our offense has taken such a big hit.  
---

 >>To sum this up, sure we lost some razzle-dazzle and some offense, but we

Quote:
>have gained an Identity. That Identity isn't one of a "bone-head" trade
>but one of a team taking direction. We now have grit, and determination
>as well as teachers for our youth. We were mediocre at best over the past
>3 years, and we cant get any worse. These moves were the right moves for
>a team that will need 3 more years to compete at a level for Stanley Cup
>contention.

How are you so sure that things can't get worse than .500 (mediocre)?

Most of the kids we have coming up (Bertuzzi, McCabe, Marinucci,
Lindros)are not playmakers..they're all gritty, strong players.  Maybe it
would have been wiser to add them to the already young nucleus of
offensive players (namely, Turgeon).  If we wanted a "teacher", then by
all means, add a player like Muller...just don't trade the talent of the
team to do so.  That's foolish.  Maybe another deal could have been worked
out to acquire Muller, or another player of his "stature" that didn't cost
Turgeon (I'm sure this could have happened).

Quote:
>>12hrs to the deadline, I'm sure we haven't heard the last of this.

Unfortunately, we have....they made no more moves!!!!!!

--
"I never met a deal...."
-DM, 199x

 
 
 

Isles trades.. The BIG picture

Post by ROBERT BENNE » Thu, 13 Apr 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
>>>Eric Fichaud : This kid will be outstanding. Rarely has a highly touted
>>french canadien goalie flopped. He has been compared to Roy/Potvin and
>>will definitly be the #1 goalie for years to come. Salo was not the
>>answer. With the exception of Hasek I cant recall a SOLID goalie to come
>>out of Europe. Fichaud one weakness could be his size, which is only 5'11
>>160, but at 19, he should gain some physical weight.

>Again, I agree with this acquisition, but how can you be so sure that Salo
>won't cut it?  Have you EVER seen him play in the NHL?  Or are you writing
>him off soley on the basis of his heritage?  That's very weak, pal.  And
>offensive, too.
>For all we know, Salo can be to the Isles what Pelle Lindbergh was to the
>Flyers....or what Hasek is to the Sabres.  He might even be what Jim Carey
>or Blaine Lacher are to their respective teams.   To write him off without
>giving him a chance is complete idiocy.  
>This deal, when taken by itself, is an excellent one.  But in light of the
>situation the Islanders are in, I'm not so sure it was wise.  Maybe it
>would have served the team better to acquire some offense, too.   Wouldn't
>that be more of a pressing need than acquiring our SIXTH (6th) goaltending
>prospect, especially since our offense has taken such a big hit.  

He may be our Sixth prospect, but he's the only good one, Salo excluded.  If
all goes as I hope, Salo and Fitch (in either order) become a stellar 1-2 in
the NHL and we offload Soderstrom and Mclennan for picks or prospects.  Maybe
even a character player.  Doesn't matter to me.  If we get tracksuits for them
while Salo and/or Fitch do the job on the Island, I'll be very happy.

Actually, Salo could fetch a 3-4 round pick as a backup to an established
team, or maybe better to someone like Ottawa or LA.  He'd make less than
Hrudey or Fuhr, and they'll both be backing up Storr next yr. anyway.

I don't know WHAT the market would fetch for McLennan... he's just not
established in the NHL.  Send him to Denver for a while, he's still young, and
maybe still fits in the picture.