Sport Today

 La> Has anyone heard any news on a possible player's league being started.
 La> I heard on Headline News that Mark Messier wants to start one.  He
 La> said if the season iscancled the players would start their own league
 La> and start playing in two months.  Is this just talk to scare the owners
 La> or is Messier serious?

        Well, if two minutes earlier a barbell fell on his head then I
guess Messier would be serious (just a pun by the way. He's a great
player.)

        OTOH, it was announced that the NHLPA and the CTV network in
Canada have come to a broadcast agreement for 30 "events" between
January and July. No details on formats, locations, matchups, etc.

        By the way, for the curious, Canadian Nielsen numbers for CBC
Saturday night programming between Nov. 19 and Dec. 3:

        Nov. 19: "Backtrack" (movie)      - 1.397 million
        Nov. 26: "Thunderheart" (movie)   - 1.160 million
        Dec. 3 : 99 All Stars vs. Jokerit - 783,000

        [Average "Hockey Night in Canada" audience: approx. 2 million]

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Joseph

----------------------------------------------------------------------

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

NH> I'm very impressed by the devotion of Canadians to hockey.  I
NH> thought every Canadian worshiped Gretzky like a god, and they
NH> won't even watch him play.  What a joke!

Well, it's a good thing we've corrected that oversight regarding Gretzky
then. =)
Why should Canadians worship Gretzky just because we're Canadians?

:         By the way, for the curious, Canadian Nielsen numbers for CBC
: Saturday night programming between Nov. 19 and Dec. 3:

:         Nov. 19: "Backtrack" (movie)      - 1.397 million
:         Nov. 26: "Thunderheart" (movie)   - 1.160 million
:         Dec. 3 : 99 All Stars vs. Jokerit - 783,000

:         [Average "Hockey Night in Canada" audience: approx. 2 million]

I'm very impressed by the devotion of Canadians to hockey.  I thought
every Canadian worshiped Gretzky like a god, and they won't even watch him
play.  What a joke!

Neil Hornsey

I'm actually surprised at how many people actually *did* tune in to
the game. It is an exhibition game, against a team of players most
Canadian viewers would not know, during a season when interest has
waned due to the strike. Plus, the result was known earlier in the
day due to the time delay in broadcasting the game. I watched the
game and found it mildly entertaining but lacking in emotion.

Bryan

Not that I need to defend the soul of Canadian hockey, I do feel that I need
to stand up to the incessant ramblings of Mr. Hornsey, the mouth of St. Louis.

While you may have lept into bed with the players, the majority of NHL fans
in Canada are a little more discriminating.  Public opinion, with the
exception of Ontario (but what do they know), in Canada lies firmly on the
side of the owners.

Many Canadian hockey fans saw the Gretzky tour as a slap in the face to the
Canadian hockey, and as such chose not to watch this charade on ice.  This was
not hockey, it was an exhibition.  How can any team be considered seriously
when two of its coaches are the players fathers?

You exclamation however describes it perfectly, "What a joke!"

Really hockey starts on Boxing Day with the World Junior Tournament.

Al.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P. Allen Larsen      MPR TELTECH LTD.      "Give the next expansion team to
---------------      8999 Nelson Way        the players, I'm sure that their

(604) 293-5195       CANADA  V5A 4B5                         - Pierre Page

If the 99 All stars vs Jokerit is the best hockey we are going to see
this season, then I don't blame Canadians for watching Seseme Street
more then they do this kind of hockey.  Make no mistake about Canadians
devotion of hockey.  We would just like to have some real hockey played
again the way we Canadians and Americans alike want our hockey.

The only joke here is your ridiculous logic.

lane

        i dunno if you've interpretted this correctly.  the way i see
        it, this demonstrates that most canadians are either siding with
        the owners, or are against both players AND owners.  people i
        talked to thought that watching the gretzky "all-stars" (sic)
        would send the wrong message to the players.  by boycotting the
        telecast we were trying to make the statement:  "quit screwing
        around, sign a deal, and play REAL hockey!!!"

        to be honest, i'm surprised the viewership was as high as it was.
        on a local SportsTalk radio call in show, the host (dan russell)
        was asking callers if they watched the game and if so how much
        could they stand.  most people seemed to have either avoided it
        all together or watched at most one period.  those who saw it
        claimed it wasn't much like NHL hockey.  (no intensity, etc.)

        i conciously decided not to watch that game because
        I'm avoiding anything to do with NHL or NHLPA until they
        get this mess sorted out.  [it's made it pretty hard to do my
        christmas shopping, 'cause usually i just get almost everyone
        canuck gear!   :)  ]

        ........ fred

        ******************************************************************
        fred s. jacklin                      "pull tabs! i want pull tabs"
        admissions manager                      h. loudon, december '94
        malaspina university-college            when asked what she wanted
        nanaimo, b.c., canada                   for christmas.

                 these opinions are mine, not my employers, eh?
        ******************************************************************

The NHL is still more than 65% Canadian players, they have a population of
just over 30 million. The NHL has approx. 20% American players, they have
a population of almost 300 million. The NHL has 8 canadian teams. The NHL
has 18 American teams. I would say Canadians are a damn sight more devoted
to the grassroots form of Hockey then Americans are. We appreciate hockey
in the way it was meant to be played. Maybe alot of us were at a Junior
game, or watching our kids play at the minor level, or maybe we were playing
ourselves in a rec league. Or maybe we are fed up with the spoiled millionaires
on both sides of the issue, and we are letting them know it. BTW, saying every
Canadian worships Wayne like a God is YOUR opinion, some of us are amazed by
his abilities and prowess on the ice, but I have never worshipped him. Don't
ever doubt a Canadians devotion to the game, I have no doubt about it as I
park my van alongside the 100 or so other parents vehicles at 6:00AM on a cold
January morning and pull on my skates to coach one of my kids practices.
I see no lack of devotion when I organize a tournament and have to turn down
volunteers because I have too many.

The biggest joke is that you would have the arrogance to even type this load
of horsecrap, oh, wait, I forgot you are a Blue's fan who beleives in the
Caron theory that got us into this whole mess in the first place! On the bright
side, this is probably the best year Brett Hull has ever had.

Take your unbeleivably twisted logic and shove it up your unbeleivably twisted
colon.

BP
--
Barry R. Pearce       | NHL:  Flames   |  NBA:  Celtics   | BP's opinions are

: The biggest joke is that you would have the arrogance to even type this load
: of horsecrap, oh, wait, I forgot you are a Blue's fan who beleives in the
: Caron theory that got us into this whole mess in the first place! On the bright
: side, this is probably the best year Brett Hull has ever had.

At least the "Caron theory" allowed the Blues to make money, which if you
believe the owners, is a rare thing!

Neil Hornsey

I don't beleive the owners, and I find the players attitude deplorable. I
am not supporting either group as a whole. If you think forcing up salaries
with ludicrous free agent offers is good for the league, you are living in
your own little world. BTW, the Blues haven't paid Al or Guy yet, and if
they don't bring home a cup, we'll see how much money they make. Not long
ago they almost became the Saskatoon Blues, now they are doing well. Tommorrow
they could be right back in the dumper, there are no guarantees of continued
profitability unless you have a huge market behind you in a huge hockey city.
St. Louis has neither. Buying champagne on a beer budget eventually catches
up to you. Forcing teams like NJ to pay inflated salaries is also a sham.
At least Risebrough got Housley out of the deal, NJ just got to write a fatter
check. Caron is a disgrace to the league, and don't talk to me about making
money until you have paid out those new salaries for a couple of years as well
as paying Shanahan, Hull and Cujo and don't forget Duchesne. You better hope
all Blues fans are as loyal as you, because over the next three years when you
still fail to hoist Lord Stanley's mug, and all your millionaires are in the
Hyperbaric chamber to help rejuvinate their aging flesh, you will need that
season ticket base, or you will be faced with the inevitable chop-chop-chop
of survival. By then Keenan will be gone, and so will Caron, and your new
rink will be half empty, and you will find the true meaning of the Blues.

BP
--
Barry R. Pearce       | NHL:  Flames   |  NBA:  Celtics   | BP's opinions are

: I don't beleive the owners, and I find the players attitude deplorable. I
: am not supporting either group as a whole. If you think forcing up salaries
: with ludicrous free agent offers is good for the league, you are living in
: your own little world. BTW, the Blues haven't paid Al or Guy yet, and if
: they don't bring home a cup, we'll see how much money they make. Not long
: ago they almost became the Saskatoon Blues, now they are doing well. Tommorrow
: they could be right back in the dumper, there are no guarantees of continued
: profitability unless you have a huge market behind you in a huge hockey city.
: St. Louis has neither. Buying champagne on a beer budget eventually catches
: up to you. Forcing teams like NJ to pay inflated salaries is also a sham.
: At least Risebrough got Housley out of the deal, NJ just got to write a fatter
: check. Caron is a disgrace to the league, and don't talk to me about making
: money until you have paid out those new salaries for a couple of years as well
: as paying Shanahan, Hull and Cujo and don't forget Duchesne. You better hope
: all Blues fans are as loyal as you, because over the next three years when you
: still fail to hoist Lord Stanley's mug, and all your millionaires are in the
: Hyperbaric chamber to help rejuvinate their aging flesh, you will need that
: season ticket base, or you will be faced with the inevitable chop-chop-chop
: of survival. By then Keenan will be gone, and so will Caron, and your new
: rink will be half empty, and you will find the true meaning of the Blues.

Well, there is no use in me responding to this now, because whatever any
of us thinks about the future of the Blues, it is all speculation.  So,
I'm saving this post, and I'll respond to it at a much later date.

Neil Hornsey

: I don't beleive the owners, and I find the players attitude deplorable. I
: am not supporting either group as a whole. If you think forcing up salaries
: with ludicrous free agent offers is good for the league, you are living in
: your own little world. BTW, the Blues haven't paid Al or Guy yet, and if
: they don't bring home a cup, we'll see how much money they make. Not long
: ago they almost became the Saskatoon Blues, now they are doing well. Tommorrow
: they could be right back in the dumper, there are no guarantees of continued
: profitability unless you have a huge market behind you in a huge hockey city.

I decided to respond anyway!  In a previous post, you talked about getting
up at 6am to coach hockey.  In this post, you say that St.Louis is not a
huge hockey city.  That depends on your definition, but I can tell you
that hockey is by far the biggest sport in St.Louis even bigger than
baseball.  Ice rinks have been going up all over the area for the last
several years.  There are at least 10 rinks in the St.Louis area, and many
of them operate almost 24 hours a day because of the huge demand for ice
time.  Many teams have their practices at times like 2am.  I would say
that they are very devoted to hockey.  The reason that St.Louis, and other
US cities don't produce many pro-hockey players is obviously because of
the climate.  Not many US kids get to play much hockey on the frozen ponds
of the area.  With warmer weather, kids become more interested in warm
weather sports like baseball, although roller hockey is becoming huge now.
By the way, Pat Lafontaine was born is St.Louis, of course he moved north
at a very young age.  

: St. Louis has neither. Buying champagne on a beer budget eventually catches
: up to you. Forcing teams like NJ to pay inflated salaries is also a sham.

St.Louis has not been buying champagne on a beer budget.  The reason
they have *made* money is because they operate *within* a budget, which is
something that some owners can't seem to comprehend.  And nobody forced NJ
to pay inflated salaries.  That is the problem.  People think that owners
are *forced* to pay large salaries.  Good mangement can produce a
competetive team without a large payroll.  Montreal won the cup in '93
without a huge payroll, and the Sharks very nearly made it to the final
four with a very small payroll.  NJ could have easily signed Stevens
earlier for much less, but even when they knew that the Blues would go
after him, they still acted like cheap skates, and then they got to pay
him a lot more.  Now whos fault is that?  St.Louis has operated completely
in the rules which were agreed upon by the NHL and the NHLPA.  They have
gambled, and sometimes won, and sometimes lost.  Why should they be
berated for acting within the rules that were agreed upon by *all* of the
owners?

: At least Risebrough got Housley out of the deal, NJ just got to write a fatter
: check. Caron is a disgrace to the league, and don't talk to me about making

Like I said, NJ didn't have to do anything.  They got burned by rules that
they agreed to.  By the way, I am no Ron Caron fan.  I admire the fact
that he tried to better the team, but he is an idiot!  I'm glad that the
Blues are willing to go after free agents, but Caron usually went after
the wrong ones.  That's why I was ecstatic when Caron was removed in favor
of Keenan.  Keenan will now choose the right players to get, and the Blues
ownership will grant his wishes.

: money until you have paid out those new salaries for a couple of years as well
: as paying Shanahan, Hull and Cujo and don't forget Duchesne. You better hope

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they shipped Duchesne.  He isn't a
Keenan type player.

: all Blues fans are as loyal as you, because over the next three years when you
: still fail to hoist Lord Stanley's mug, and all your millionaires are in the
: Hyperbaric chamber to help rejuvinate their aging flesh, you will need that
: season ticket base, or you will be faced with the inevitable chop-chop-chop
: of survival. By then Keenan will be gone, and so will Caron, and your new
: rink will be half empty, and you will find the true meaning of the Blues.

Hey now, Brendan Shanahan is one of the Blues millionaires, and he is only
25.  I don't think that he will need the Hyperbaric chamber at 28, at
least I hope not!  Does the "chop-chop-chop" refer to what happened to
Edmonton?  Gee, I hope that doesn't happen to the Blues!  I doubt that
Caron will be gone in three years.  The Blues will always have at least a
meaningless job for him somewhere, and I doubt that anyone else in the
league wants him!  As for Keenan, I don't think he will be gone either,
unless the Blues get worse, or win the cup.

Neil Hornsey

: No, sorry Neil. You're the joke!

Talk about joke!  Remember this?

*********************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey

Subject: Season will begin Dec. 10
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 22:01:29 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Lines: 10

Believe it or not...and *** you who have scorned me in the past.  This
will show how little you and your opinions mean , which is NOTHING!!

Real Hockey will begin on December the Tenth...You heard it here first!!!
OIlerFan
--
Apple Computer, Inc. has a corporate commitment to the principle of diversity.  In that spirit, we welcome applications form all individuals.
************************************************************

I think you are confused on who the joke is!  Boy, you really showed
everyone how little their opinions mean!  The calendar shows that it is
December 23, and what do you know, not only is there no hockey, but there
isn't even a CBA.  *Your* opinions mean nothing!  You constantly spew
false information as facts!  *You* are the joke!
Merry Christmas!

Neil Hornsey