St Helens pre-season

St Helens pre-season

Post by Leigh Gillespi » Thu, 29 Aug 1996 04:00:00


        Here's a little snippet from the local Townsville paper that might
interest those of us residing north of the equator...

#       TIM Sheens' North Queensland Cowboys may play a pre-season trial
# next year against English Super League heavyweights St Helens at
# Stockland Stadium. Cowboys chief executive Rabieh Krayam yesterday
# confirmed he had talked with St Helens boss David Howes about the idea.
#       "It is a possibility. We are just waiting ro see how it develops,"
# Krayem said.
#       St Helens are coached by Shaun McRae who was Sheens' righthand man
# at the Canberra Raiders before this year trying his hand at coaching a
# team in his own right, meeting with instant success with St Helens.

        Sounds interesting. Not quite the World Club Challenge but
it'll do nicely for now. Three problems I can see, one - the ARL, two -
will it clash with Challenge Cup matches, and three - an english side
coming out of their winter to play in northern Australia. It'll be one
hell of a system shock if they do come - 32 degrees and 80% humidity (at
8pm) is a big difference from the barely positive figures of England. Of
course for the Cowboys it'll be no sweat! (awful pun intended)

        BTW, I noticed a Krayem on aus.sport.rugby-league last week. No
relation to our Rabieh by any chance?

Catchya round, Leigh

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* Leigh T. Gillespie                  *    "It takes leather balls      *
* Phone - Australia (077) 791219      *     to play Rugby!"             *

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St Helens pre-season

Post by Tim Arche » Sat, 31 Aug 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>    Sounds interesting. Not quite the World Club Challenge >but it'll do nicely for now. Three problems I can see, one - >the ARL, two=

 - will it clash with Challenge Cup matches, and >three - an english side coming out of their winter to play in >northern Australia.=
 It'll be one hell of a system shock if >they do come - 32 degrees and 80% humidity (at 8pm) is a big >difference from the barely po=
sitive figures of England. Of

Quote:
>course for the Cowboys it'll be no sweat! (awful pun intended)

Hmmm, this is a bit perplexing. I mean, St Helens, Super League
champs vs the lowly rated Cowboys? Who knows, the Cowboys will
improve next year and I don't think St Helens would be too
competitive in the Optus Cup, so it could be a good game, if
Saints send out enough quality players. It'd be better if they
played the winner of the optus cup though.
--

Tim Archer
...............................................

http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/index.html
http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/tlog.html
...............................................
"Ventress, I will not have one of my men wasting
valuable police time wrapping plastic ducks."
- Sgt Blaketon

 
 
 

St Helens pre-season

Post by Leigh Gillespi » Mon, 02 Sep 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
> Hmmm, this is a bit perplexing. I mean, St Helens, Super League
> champs vs the lowly rated Cowboys? Who knows, the Cowboys will
> improve next year and I don't think St Helens would be too
> competitive in the Optus Cup, so it could be a good game, if
> Saints send out enough quality players. It'd be better if they
> played the winner of the optus cup though.

        Better if you live down south, but for purely selfish reasons I
would absolutely love to see such a match in Townsville. And considering
the great advantage that the people of the capital cities and surroundning
centres already have in getting top line events I think we deserve it.
Most people up here are sick of being regarded as the poor cousins and
don't mind at all when our southern masters cop a bit of their own
medicine. <yes I do have a complex - steps off soap box>
        The match should go pretty close to being a sell out and no matter
how lowly rated (by southerners) the Cowboys may be, at home they're a
very different kettle of fish (just ask Newcastle and Cronulla). So why is
the match being proposed? Well firstly, there's the Sheens - McRae link
but I'd suggest the major reason would be to make up for the lost home
game from the first round of this season. As of this moment the Cowboys
have not yet refunded season ticket holders for the lost game and I gain
the impression they'd rather not. If they do refund the money then they
will be down that much on their budget but if they can schedule a
substitute game then they could say well there's you're eleventh match
we'll keep the doe.
        Obviously the match is not going to be the world club challenge
but with the relationship between the goverening bodies in desparate need
of counselling I doubt we would see such a match anyway. With that being
the case, if the Cowboys are the first and/or only club to take the
initiative to try and organize such a match then they deserve all the
benefits. All the above said, I doubt anything will come of the attempt.
It may just have been a beat up by the Townville Bulletin and even it
was't I feel there may just be too many factors to overcome not the least
of which being the ARL. Nice idea though and perhaps a pointer to a future
where cross country club matches will become quite a regular occurance in
the pre and post seasons.

Catchya round, Leigh

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Leigh T. Gillespie                  *    "It takes leather balls      *
* Phone - Australia (077) 791219      *     to play Rugby!"             *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 
 
 

St Helens pre-season

Post by Tim Arche » Mon, 02 Sep 1996 04:00:00

Picking a winner is not as easy as it seems, The Cowboys will
have Sheens, Kevvy Walters and Ian Roberts next year. I've seen
St Helens play and while they're without a doubt, the best in
England, I think they'd struggle to make the top eight here, so
it'd be a good game.

--

Tim Archer
...............................................

http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/index.html
http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/tlog.html
...............................................
"Ventress, I will not have one of my men wasting
valuable police time wrapping plastic ducks."
- Sgt Blaketon

 
 
 

St Helens pre-season

Post by Chris Co » Mon, 02 Sep 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> Picking a winner is not as easy as it seems, The Cowboys will
> have Sheens, Kevvy Walters and Ian Roberts next year. I've seen               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nope, Wayne Bennett and Shane Edwards have protested that under no circumstances will
Kevvy be released.  Much more likely to have Steve Walters.

Chris

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St Helens pre-season

Post by Leigh Gillespi » Tue, 03 Sep 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


> > Picking a winner is not as easy as it seems, The Cowboys will
> > have Sheens, Kevvy Walters and Ian Roberts next year. I've seen

> Nope, Wayne Bennett and Shane Edwards have protested that under no
> circumstances will Kevvy be released.  Much more likely to have Steve
> Walters.

        The Cowboys have stated that they have not and will *not*
offer Kevin Walters a contract. So both sides are pouring cold water on
the idea. These days the moment everyone starts denying things, you know
it's gonna happen. I feelin' a lot more confident about the whole deal.

(That's not just me being flippant but a true observation of how RL works
 now days - I seriously wouldn't be writing the deal off until November)

Catchya round, Leigh

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Leigh T. Gillespie                  *    "It takes leather balls      *
* Phone - Australia (077) 791219      *     to play Rugby!"             *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 
 
 

St Helens pre-season

Post by Geff Fost » Tue, 03 Sep 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


>>       Sounds interesting. Not quite the World Club Challenge >but it'll do nicely for now. Three problems I can see, one - >the ARL, two=
> - will it clash with Challenge Cup matches, and >three - an english side coming out of their winter to play in >northern Australia.=
> It'll be one hell of a system shock if >they do come - 32 degrees and 80% humidity (at 8pm) is a big >difference from the barely po=
>sitive figures of England. Of
>>course for the Cowboys it'll be no sweat! (awful pun intended)

>Hmmm, this is a bit perplexing. I mean, St Helens, Super League
>champs vs the lowly rated Cowboys? Who knows, the Cowboys will
>improve next year and I don't think St Helens would be too
>competitive in the Optus Cup, so it could be a good game, if
>Saints send out enough quality players. It'd be better if they
>played the winner of the optus cup though.

I am of the opinion that Saints, Wigan and the Bradford Bulls would
do quite well in the Australian competition.

Each team has enough top class players to match it with any side, the
problem is that they just don't meet that much resistance in the
British League so their standards don't have to be so high.

If the opposition were of a better quality I'm sure each side would
respond accordingly.

Geff

Quote:
>Tim Archer
>...............................................

>http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/index.html
>http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/tlog.html
>...............................................
>"Ventress, I will not have one of my men wasting
>valuable police time wrapping plastic ducks."
>- Sgt Blaketon

-------------------------------------------------
Geff Foster              |"The Zone

St. Helens, Merseyside   | of it's own"
-------------------------------------------------
 
 
 

St Helens pre-season

Post by Vibrating Bum-Faced Goa » Thu, 05 Sep 1996 04:00:00

: Picking a winner is not as easy as it seems, The Cowboys will
: have Sheens, Kevvy Walters and Ian Roberts next year. I've seen
: St Helens play and while they're without a doubt, the best in

I think they are, at the present time, the best in England, but I
wouldn't say without a doubt. The sides finishing in the top 4 this
season, i.e. Saints, Wigan, Bradford and London in that order, all with
the exception of London beat the other top sides on their own ground in
close, competitive matches. London on the other hand were robbed at
Bradford, they should have won that one. They were robbed at St.Helens
and they drew at Wigan.

I've just realised I said 'close, competitive matches' when I should have
said St.Helens were losing 34-0 at half time when they played Bradford at
Bradford. :)

: England, I think they'd struggle to make the top eight here, so
: it'd be a good game.

I think you seriously under estimate the skills level at the top of the
British game. I wouldn't worry about it though, most of the Brits do as
well. Any of the top three could make the top four in Oz, London might
make top 6 but the rest would be out of the running from Round 1 onwards.

Cheers,
Chris.

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St Helens pre-season

Post by Tim Arche » Sun, 08 Sep 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
>I think you seriously under estimate the skills level at the >top of the British game. I wouldn't worry about it though, >most of t=

he Brits do as well. Any of the top three could make >the top four in Oz, London might make top 6 but the rest would >be out of the =
running from Round 1 onwards.

There is no way St Helens could beat Manly, Brisbane or Norths.
I've seen them play and they maybe could be Sydney City, but I
don't think they would beat Cronulla or Canberra either. Wigan,
well, they're in a similar boat. Bradford, they couldn't beat
St George and would miss out on a top 8 berth, and as for
London, it's made up of Australian rejects.

--

Tim Archer
...............................................

http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/index.html
http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/tlog.html
...............................................
"Ventress, I will not have one of my men wasting
valuable police time wrapping plastic ducks."
- Sgt Blaketon

 
 
 

St Helens pre-season

Post by Geff Fost » Sun, 08 Sep 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


>>I think you seriously under estimate the skills level at the >top of the British game. I wouldn't worry about it though, >most of t=
>he Brits do as well. Any of the top three could make >the top four in Oz, London might make top 6 but the rest would >be out of the =
>running from Round 1 onwards.

>There is no way St Helens could beat Manly, Brisbane or Norths.
>I've seen them play and they maybe could be Sydney City, but I
>don't think they would beat Cronulla or Canberra either. Wigan,
>well, they're in a similar boat. Bradford, they couldn't beat
>St George and would miss out on a top 8 berth, and as for
>London, it's made up of Australian rejects.

Well I'm quite sure you and a lot of others in Australia thought
Canberra would beat Widnes or Penrith, Brisbane & Manly would turn
over Wigan.

Seem to remember all these sides getting slaughtered by our top
teams, in fact I think you Aussies have only won 1 world club
challenge in the last few years!

We may have an average international side but out club teams can
match it with anything which you have to offer!

Geff

Quote:
>Tim Archer
>...............................................

>http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/index.html
>http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/tlog.html
>...............................................
>"Ventress, I will not have one of my men wasting
>valuable police time wrapping plastic ducks."
>- Sgt Blaketon

-------------------------------------------------
Geff Foster              |"The Zone

St. Helens, Merseyside   | of it's own"
-------------------------------------------------
 
 
 

St Helens pre-season

Post by Chris Co » Mon, 09 Sep 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> Well I'm quite sure you and a lot of others in Australia thought
> Canberra would beat Widnes or Penrith, Brisbane & Manly would turn
> over Wigan.

Funny, I thought Brisbane rolled Wigan, and then Wigan barely beat Brisbane in the
second challenge.

Quote:
> We may have an average international side but out club teams can
> match it with anything which you have to offer!

Hmmmm, yeah, right! :)

Chris
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St Helens pre-season

Post by Tim Arche » Mon, 09 Sep 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>Seem to remember all these sides getting slaughtered by our >top teams, in fact I think you Aussies have only won 1 world >club cha=

llenge in the last few years!

While I don't really like making excuses in this situation, I
will anyway. I must praise the British for their pride. You
see, those World Club games don't really matter to Australian
teams, except maybe when Brisbane won in 1992. You see, it's
either played after the Grand Final, after the end of the
season or midweek during the Australian premiership. Now,
Australian teams don't really care about pride as much as the
British, so, because it has no bearing on their premiership
campaign, they often throw in other players, rest a couple etc.
Bring some English teams down here to play in the Optus Cup
premiership, and I guarantee you, they wouldn't stand up to the
Aussie top 5.

--

Tim Archer
...............................................

http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/index.html
http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/tlog.html
...............................................
"Ventress, I will not have one of my men wasting
valuable police time wrapping plastic ducks."
- Sgt Blaketon

 
 
 

St Helens pre-season

Post by Geff Fost » Mon, 09 Sep 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


>>Seem to remember all these sides getting slaughtered by our >top teams, in fact I think you Aussies have only won 1 world >club cha=
>llenge in the last few years!

>While I don't really like making excuses in this situation, I
>will anyway. I must praise the British for their pride. You
>see, those World Club games don't really matter to Australian
>teams, except maybe when Brisbane won in 1992. You see, it's
>either played after the Grand Final, after the end of the
>season or midweek during the Australian premiership. Now,
>Australian teams don't really care about pride as much as the
>British, so, because it has no bearing on their premiership
>campaign, they often throw in other players, rest a couple etc.
>Bring some English teams down here to play in the Optus Cup
>premiership, and I guarantee you, they wouldn't stand up to the
>Aussie top 5.

Well it's one thing taking shit from a Wiganer, but compared to
you Aussies the pie-eaters are angelic.

You are of course talking complete and utter bollocks, I was at
Central Park the night the Wiganers stuffed Manly a feat which
you Australians thought of as being "impossible".

Granted they were missing Kevin Ward - but hey - he was English
anway :)

Saying that Manly lacked pride that night is an insult to your
own country, they gave their all and were beaten fair and
square.

I was at Old Trafford the night Widnes SLAUGHTERED Canberra.

Canberra didn't seem to be lacking in pride up to half time,
thereafter they were blown away by some of the highest speed
rugby I have ever seen.

I was also at Anfield the night Wigan SLAUGHTERED Penrith.

Now that was a pasting :)

Wigan mercifully decided to give your teams a chance when
they let the Bronco's have home field advantage just so
that you couldn't moan and what happened, Wigan won again.

Wigan, Saints and Bradford could quite easily compete in your
Optus cup, do you seriously expect me to believe that Tuigamala,
Connolly, Robinson, Paul (x2), Goulding, McDermott, Perelini,
Spruce, Newlove, Cunningham and Sullivan could not more than
hold their own in your competition.

Ken Arthurson thought so, otherwise he would no have been over
here on numerous occasions to try and sign all these stars up.

The fact that Andy Currier looked like a world beater when he
played in the Winfield Cup convinces me that your league cannot
be all that good, now there's a bloke who was shit :)

The simple fact of the matter is that we are only letting you
Aussies borrow the Ashes, we held them for so long that it got
a bit tedious flying thousands of miles just to play a bit
of touch rugby :)

Sooner or later we will decide that we want them back and we will
pop over to your neck of the woods and subjugate you once more :)

Bye for now!

Geff

Quote:
>Tim Archer
>...............................................

>http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/index.html
>http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/tlog.html
>...............................................
>"Ventress, I will not have one of my men wasting
>valuable police time wrapping plastic ducks."
>- Sgt Blaketon

-------------------------------------------------
Geff Foster              |"The Zone

St. Helens, Merseyside   | of it's own"
-------------------------------------------------
 
 
 

St Helens pre-season

Post by Tim Arche » Tue, 10 Sep 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>You are of course talking complete and utter bollocks, I was >at Central Park the night the Wiganers stuffed Manly a feat >which yo=

u Australians thought of as being "impossible".

Tell you what though, the Wigan that one last night against St.
Helens couldn't beat the top 5 Aussie teams, except maybe the
Roosters. They wouldn't stand a chance against 1996 Manly.

Quote:

>Saying that Manly lacked pride that night is an insult to your
>own country, they gave their all and were beaten fair and
>square.

>I was at Old Trafford the night Widnes SLAUGHTERED Canberra.

Oh yes, I loved that result!!!! In some way, it was sweet
revenge for a Balmain supporter who happened to be at the grand
final. I *still* think Balmain would have beaten Widnes though.
Oy, I wonder who Andy Currier would have played for that night
seeing as though he was contracted to both teams.

Quote:

>Canberra didn't seem to be lacking in pride up to half time,
>thereafter they were blown away by some of the highest speed
>rugby I have ever seen.

>I was also at Anfield the night Wigan SLAUGHTERED Penrith.

>Now that was a pasting :)

>Wigan mercifully decided to give your teams a chance when
>they let the Bronco's have home field advantage just so
>that you couldn't moan and what happened, Wigan won again.

But you're talking about the past here. I'm talking about 1996
here.
Quote:

>Wigan, Saints and Bradford could quite easily compete in your
>Optus cup, do you seriously expect me to believe that >Tuigamala, Connolly, Robinson, Paul (x2), Goulding, McDermott, >Perelini, Sp=

ruce, Newlove, Cunningham and Sullivan could not >more than hold their own in your competition.

I never said anything of the sort. There are some great players
in England, but there are better Australian players in same
positions. If I had to pick a world team, I'd only pick
Robinson in the starting lineup from England and maybe Andy
Farrell, Goulding and Cunningham on the bench. I would rather
have someone like Steve Renouf in my team than Connolly or
Newlove. I'd rather have Alfie Langer or even Andrew Johns over
Goulding and I'd rather have Glenn Lazarus or Paul Harragon
over McDermott. I'm not saying that British clubs sides would
not be competitive over here, for arguments sake, Parramatta
were competitive this year and they finished 13th. I just think
that when it comes to the crunch, the only British sides in
with a chance of making the Australian top 8 would be Wigan and
Saints. Bradford would come close, but there are better sides
in Australia.

I'm lucky, I have the opportunity to see both leagues, so I did
a bit of comparing. Trust me, there isn't a side in England
which could beat Manly, Norths or Brisbane and they would
struggle against Sydney City and Cronulla.

Quote:
>The fact that Andy Currier looked like a world beater when he
>played in the Winfield Cup convinces me that your league >cannot be all that good, now there's a bloke who was shit :)

Currier played well for one year and I'm still eternally
grateful for that, but he was in reserves for 1990 when
Tim Brasher started to really come of age. I'm not saying there
aren't good players in England, or that teams over there can't
compete here, or that the ESL is crap, just that it is better
in Australia. Come on, Denis Betts said so himself.

--

Tim Archer
...............................................

http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/index.html
http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/tlog.html
...............................................
"Ventress, I will not have one of my men wasting
valuable police time wrapping plastic ducks."
- Sgt Blaketon

 
 
 

St Helens pre-season

Post by Tim Arche » Tue, 10 Sep 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


>> Well I'm quite sure you and a lot of others in Australia thought
>> Canberra would beat Widnes or Penrith, Brisbane & Manly would turn
>> over Wigan.

>Funny, I thought Brisbane rolled Wigan, and then Wigan barely >beat Brisbane in the second challenge.

And remember when they actually played. Remember, about 80% of
the Broncos played in the State of Origin the previous week,
backed up on the Sunday and then played on the Wednesday
against Wigan then on the Friday night. Come on, they hearts
weren't in it.

Quote:

>> We may have an average international side but out club teams can
>> match it with anything which you have to offer!

>Hmmmm, yeah, right! :)

Maybe five years ago, but not now. We're miles ahead.

--

Tim Archer
...............................................

http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/index.html
http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/tlog.html
...............................................
"Ventress, I will not have one of my men wasting
valuable police time wrapping plastic ducks."
- Sgt Blaketon