When will we learn.........

When will we learn.........

Post by Mugwu » Wed, 09 Apr 1997 04:00:00


........that goalkicking skills are just as important as speed,
strength and agility.

Standards have certainly risen this season but I must say that
the quality of goalkicking has gone straight down the tubes.

RL fans were going mad over Botica when he was at Wigan, don't they
realise that virtually every RU club has a goalkicker with a strike
rate of similar ratings?

All it takes is a bit of practice - well a lot of practice.

But hey - isn't it worth it?

Mugwump.

    !!    |-------------------------------------------|    !!

   !!!!   |        --iNTERzONE iNcORpOrATED---        |   !!!!
  /    \  |-------------------------------------------|  /    \
 ( O||O ) |"I think it's time for you boys to share my| ( O||O )
 (  /\  ) |last taste of the true black meat - flesh  | (  /\  )
  (/##\)  |of the giant aquatic Brazilian Centipede"  |  (/##\)

 
 
 

When will we learn.........

Post by Steve Morri » Thu, 10 Apr 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

>........that goalkicking skills are just as important as speed,
>strength and agility.

>Standards have certainly risen this season but I must say that
>the quality of goalkicking has gone straight down the tubes.

>RL fans were going mad over Botica when he was at Wigan, don't they
>realise that virtually every RU club has a goalkicker with a strike
>rate of similar ratings?

>All it takes is a bit of practice - well a lot of practice.

>But hey - isn't it worth it?

>Mugwump.

Will Bobby be back on kicking duty?

From what I see his % conversion rate must be very average.

However the incredible Mr Barwick's form continues to slide and he
missed another two at Bradford, how difficult they were I don't know.

--
Steve Morris

 
 
 

When will we learn.........

Post by Chick » Thu, 10 Apr 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

>........that goalkicking skills are just as important as speed,
>strength and agility.

>Standards have certainly risen this season but I must say that
>the quality of goalkicking has gone straight down the tubes.

>RL fans were going mad over Botica when he was at Wigan, don't they
>realise that virtually every RU club has a goalkicker with a strike
>rate of similar ratings?

>All it takes is a bit of practice - well a lot of practice.

>But hey - isn't it worth it?

>Mugwump.

We've got a lad in the Academy who's apparently a bit of a nutcase but
he's a fantastic kicker. Saw him kick when I accidently arrived early
at Halifax. He was unbelieveable. He was knocking em over from
everywhere in terrible weather! Rumour is though he'd have been booted
out for bad attitude ages ago if he didn't have a golden boot!

Paul

 
 
 

When will we learn.........

Post by wiganrl.. » Fri, 11 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>........that goalkicking skills are just as important as speed,
>strength and agility.

<snip>

>All it takes is a bit of practice - well a lot of practice.

>But hey - isn't it worth it?

Yep, and what amazes me is that in clubs that clearly lack a recognised goal
kicker none of the players have decided to try and have a go for the job.

Wigan fall into that category IMO.

I would have thought its one way to get yourself picked over another player of
similar ability.

When Botica arrived at Wigan, Monie did not want him (he wanted Phil Blake
instead) and, at first,  he could not justify his place in the team on his other Rugby
 skills.

However when his exceptional (by RL standards) goal kicking became apparent
he became the final piece in the jigsaw and was one of the major reasons why
Wigan dominated so much at that time.

If super league becomes more evenly matched then an accurate goal kicker will
become a real asset and will be the difference between a win and a loss in many
 games.  

I think this also ties in with what you said on another thread about second rows
and centres being indistinguishable etc.  It boils down to a general de-skilling of
the game.

I *blame* two things for this.

1.  Rule changes, in particular the 10m rule and how scrums are handled.

2.  The improved level of fitness of the professional players

The 10m rule has seen the *** become a back rather than a forward (if you
see what I mean).  Couple that with the fact the scrums are now not contested
means that position can now be filled by any half decent half back and is why
Wigan should give Murdoch a go at ***.

The fitness of the players now means second rows can actually run as well as a
 big centre of about 5 or 6 years ago, so its no surprise we see players covering
 many positions.

However, I do think there is more to being a centre than just being able to gallop
 50 meters quickly.  I think the reason why we see second rows in the centre has
 as much to do with a lowering of standards in defense (maybe again due to the
 10m rule).  The centres don't have to try as hard, IMO, to beat people by side
 stepping etc as they used to and this is what lets the less *maneuverable* second
 rowers into the picture.

Dave

Wigan RLFC - Simply THE Best.

 
 
 

When will we learn.........

Post by Mr P Halliwel » Fri, 11 Apr 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
> ........that goalkicking skills are just as important as speed,
> strength and agility.
> Standards have certainly risen this season but I must say that
> the quality of goalkicking has gone straight down the tubes.
> RL fans were going mad over Botica when he was at Wigan, don't they
> realise that virtually every RU club has a goalkicker with a strike
> rate of similar ratings?
> All it takes is a bit of practice - well a lot of practice.
> But hey - isn't it worth it?
> Mugwump.

I agree,  many is the time that the goal kicking of Botica saved
the game for Wigan.  

4 seasons ago when the title was a three way tie and it went to
Wigan on points differance.  It was Boticas goalkicking that was
the differance.

Apparently Farrell was training with him for goal kicking.
But Farrell is still not in the same league as Botica.

With so many game being close these days, you'd have thought that
goalkicking would be a very high priority for clubs.

--

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/phalliwell/  |\_/^~^~^~^\_/|
Wigan Warriors RLFC                        \__|\0\ /0/|__/
But still Wigan RLFC to me                    \   I   /
                                               \ -=- /
                                                ^^^^^

 
 
 

When will we learn.........

Post by Mugwu » Fri, 11 Apr 1997 04:00:00


Dave I have heard of invisible ink - but this is ridiculous.

Your choice in ISP is similar to your choice in RL teams.

They are both clueless :-)

Go U-Net.

Mugwump.

    !!    |-------------------------------------------|    !!

   !!!!   |        --iNTERzONE iNcORpOrATED---        |   !!!!
  /    \  |-------------------------------------------|  /    \
 ( O||O ) |"I think it's time for you boys to share my| ( O||O )
 (  /\  ) |last taste of the true black meat - flesh  | (  /\  )
  (/##\)  |of the giant aquatic Brazilian Centipede"  |  (/##\)

 
 
 

When will we learn.........

Post by Mugwu » Fri, 11 Apr 1997 04:00:00


Quote:


>>........that goalkicking skills are just as important as speed,
>>strength and agility.

><snip>

>>All it takes is a bit of practice - well a lot of practice.

>>But hey - isn't it worth it?

>Yep, and what amazes me is that in clubs that clearly lack a recognised goal
>kicker none of the players have decided to try and have a go for the job.

Shit Dave - we sound like two old men.

Quote:
>Wigan fall into that category IMO.

Wigan aren't all that bad, Farrell is a decent kicker.

Warrington are diabolical, whoever told Roper that he could kick a ball must
have been on ***.

Quote:
>I would have thought its one way to get yourself picked over another player of
>similar ability.

>When Botica arrived at Wigan, Monie did not want him (he wanted Phil Blake
>instead) and, at first,  he could not justify his place in the team on his other Rugby
> skills.

I first saw Botica play in the Wigan sevens - to be honest I thought he was
a load of shite.

Thankfully for the pies they gave him a dose of steroids and put a yard of pace
on him.

Quote:
>However when his exceptional (by RL standards) goal kicking became apparent
>he became the final piece in the jigsaw and was one of the major reasons why
>Wigan dominated so much at that time.

True - but he was only an average kicker in RU.

Quote:
>If super league becomes more evenly matched then an accurate goal kicker will
>become a real asset and will be the difference between a win and a loss in many
> games.  

I would ***y well hope so.

Quote:
>I think this also ties in with what you said on another thread about second rows
>and centres being indistinguishable etc.  It boils down to a general de-skilling of
>the game.

>I *blame* two things for this.

>1.  Rule changes, in particular the 10m rule and how scrums are handled.

Yep - I think we are both in agreement that the 10m rule sucks.

Quote:
>2.  The improved level of fitness of the professional players

>The 10m rule has seen the *** become a back rather than a forward (if you
>see what I mean).  Couple that with the fact the scrums are now not contested
>means that position can now be filled by any half decent half back and is why
>Wigan should give Murdoch a go at ***.

Don't get me wrong - RL is still a great game but lets face it you may as
well s***names like stand-off/centre/wing/second-row.

They are meaningless.

At least in RU you can distinguish between the players.

Quote:
>The fitness of the players now means second rows can actually run as well as a
> big centre of about 5 or 6 years ago, so its no surprise we see players covering
> many positions.

>However, I do think there is more to being a centre than just being able to gallop
> 50 meters quickly.  I think the reason why we see second rows in the centre has
> as much to do with a lowering of standards in defense (maybe again due to the
> 10m rule).  The centres don't have to try as hard, IMO, to beat people by side
> stepping etc as they used to and this is what lets the less *maneuverable* second
> rowers into the picture.

I think the defensive standards have risen this season, Castleford tackled like tigers :-)
against Wigan.

Mugwump.

Quote:
>Dave

>Wigan RLFC - Simply THE Best.

    !!    |-------------------------------------------|    !!

   !!!!   |        --iNTERzONE iNcORpOrATED---        |   !!!!
  /    \  |-------------------------------------------|  /    \
 ( O||O ) |"I think it's time for you boys to share my| ( O||O )
 (  /\  ) |last taste of the true black meat - flesh  | (  /\  )
  (/##\)  |of the giant aquatic Brazilian Centipede"  |  (/##\)
 
 
 

When will we learn.........

Post by Peter Davie » Sat, 12 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> ........that goalkicking skills are just as important as speed,
> strength and agility.

Right, most players can't kick. The worst thing about 7's and 9's
which use drop kicks for conversions has been the embarrassing
spectacle of kickers with no kicking skill.

I don't agree that it is as important as those other
skills now whereas i think it once was.
The importance of field goals dropped when they reduced
them to 1 point. Now only the playmakers drop goals and
only when there is a close match. I think that field goals
should be worth 2 points and conversions 1 point so as to
make penalty and field goals more important or i should say
return them to their former importance. In the old days
(pre 4 tackle) most teams had good dependable pressure kickers.
Now they are not as valuable because when the 4 tackle rule
was adopted there were more field goals and scrum penalties
(they were'nt differentials then) cos there were more scrums.
People complained that there were not enough tries and goals
were not important. They got their wish unfortunately.

Although it seems obvious that a good goal kicker is essential
i think that the Australian experience is that to win the
Grand Finals there are more important things. The competition
culminated in the GF which was won by the most ***
forwards. The Brisbane Broncos didn't have a really good kicker
and neither did Canberra. Take the 94 GF, Canterbury had Daryl
Halligan whose kicking got them to the GF but he was no use
on GF day because Canberra were far superior where it mattered
most. Daryl got them to the GF by scraping past better teams
but if he doesn't get a chance to kick he is not as useful.

I think it's sad but RL the Australian way has been to destroy
the opposition before they destroy you. It would improve if
more varied skills were made more important.

Quote:
> Standards have certainly risen this season but I must say that
> the quality of goalkicking has gone straight down the tubes.

> RL fans were going mad over Botica when he was at Wigan, don't they
> realise that virtually every RU club has a goalkicker with a strike
> rate of similar ratings?

Sure that's why they chased some of them. Ridge, Halligan, O'Connor
spring to mind. But they've gotta satisfy other more essential
criteria before they get a run in first grade. It is a pity that
teams can't carry these players but they can't when there is such
an emphasis on defence. If the field goals and penalty goals were
made more important then they would become essential. I love RL
but it could improve with more variation in play such as field
goals.

Quote:
> All it takes is a bit of practice - well a lot of practice.

> But hey - isn't it worth it?

Yes it still is but it should be more important.

Peter Davies

 
 
 

When will we learn.........

Post by Paul Matthe » Sat, 12 Apr 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
>Go U-Net.

That seems to be where most of us are now :-)

Should we ask Keith for U-net.talk.rugby.league?

Paul Matthews
http://www.triton.u-net.com

 
 
 

When will we learn.........

Post by Steve Morri » Sat, 12 Apr 1997 04:00:00



Quote:


>>........that goalkicking skills are just as important as speed,
>>strength and agility.

>>Standards have certainly risen this season but I must say that
>>the quality of goalkicking has gone straight down the tubes.

>>RL fans were going mad over Botica when he was at Wigan, don't they
>>realise that virtually every RU club has a goalkicker with a strike
>>rate of similar ratings?

>>All it takes is a bit of practice - well a lot of practice.

>>But hey - isn't it worth it?

>>Mugwump.

>Will Bobby be back on kicking duty?

>From what I see his % conversion rate must be very average.

>However the incredible Mr Barwick's form continues to slide and he
>missed another two at Bradford, how difficult they were I don't know.

How was the one he missed tonight?

--
Steve Morris

 
 
 

When will we learn.........

Post by Mugwu » Sat, 12 Apr 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
>>Will Bobby be back on kicking duty?

>>From what I see his % conversion rate must be very average.

>>However the incredible Mr Barwick's form continues to slide and he
>>missed another two at Bradford, how difficult they were I don't know.

>How was the one he missed tonight?

It was one of THOSE kicks buddy.

You know the type that go over 99 out of 100 times.

He should have back heeled it over, but then again Saints should have
won the game beforehand.

It's easy to blame a bloke losing a match on a kick, but at then end
of the day, every goal-kicker has done it at least once in their
career.

Mugwump.

Quote:
>--
>Steve Morris

    !!    |-------------------------------------------|    !!

   !!!!   |        --iNTERzONE iNcORpOrATED---        |   !!!!
  /    \  |-------------------------------------------|  /    \
 ( O||O ) |"I think it's time for you boys to share my| ( O||O )
 (  /\  ) |last taste of the true black meat - flesh  | (  /\  )
  (/##\)  |of the giant aquatic Brazilian Centipede"  |  (/##\)
 
 
 

When will we learn.........

Post by Steve Morri » Sun, 13 Apr 1997 04:00:00



Quote:


>>>Will Bobby be back on kicking duty?

>>>From what I see his % conversion rate must be very average.

>>>However the incredible Mr Barwick's form continues to slide and he
>>>missed another two at Bradford, how difficult they were I don't know.

>>How was the one he missed tonight?

>It was one of THOSE kicks buddy.

>You know the type that go over 99 out of 100 times.

>He should have back heeled it over, but then again Saints should have
>won the game beforehand.

>It's easy to blame a bloke losing a match on a kick, but at then end
>of the day, every goal-kicker has done it at least once in their
>career.

>Mugwump.

>>--
>>Steve Morris

So it's game on then

London win every remaining game, Saints beat Bradford home but loose
away. London sweep to a two point victory on top of SL.

--
Steve Morris

 
 
 

When will we learn.........

Post by Lloyd Barkha » Sun, 13 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Steve Morris wrote on 11/4/97:

Quote:




>>>........that goalkicking skills are just as important as speed,
>>>strength and agility.

>>>Standards have certainly risen this season but I must say that
>>>the quality of goalkicking has gone straight down the tubes.

>>>RL fans were going mad over Botica when he was at Wigan, don't they
>>>realise that virtually every RU club has a goalkicker with a strike
>>>rate of similar ratings?

>>>All it takes is a bit of practice - well a lot of practice.

>>>But hey - isn't it worth it?

>>>Mugwump.

>>Will Bobby be back on kicking duty?

>>From what I see his % conversion rate must be very average.

>>However the incredible Mr Barwick's form continues to slide and he
>>missed another two at Bradford, how difficult they were I don't know.

>How was the one he missed tonight?

Absolutely  ***y Superb

Lloyd


 
 
 

When will we learn.........

Post by David Kitchi » Sun, 13 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Quote:



>> Go U-Net.
> That seems to be where most of us are now :-)
> Should we ask Keith for U-net.talk.rugby.league?

Definitely! Let's be really elitist.

Keith might make a good prop forward, perhaps we should tell Eric Hughes.

--  

 
 
 

When will we learn.........

Post by rgstoc.. » Mon, 14 Apr 1997 04:00:00

A couple of seasons ago when the Broncos took over in London they let Gallagher go (too much dosh I should think), then they realised that they was nobody who could kick, so they got Gallagher back,
stuck him out on the wing (rumoured to be on 500 per game), I said at the time that it was almost worth having a good kicker in the team who sat by their posts keeping well out of the way till they
needed to kick, a good team can play with 12 players (puts a whole new meaning to last line of defence!). Come to think of it that exactly what the Broncos were doing this year in Offiahs***2
games, only mistake was to let him have it in our 25 v the Saints!