Bring back the WAR!!!!

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by Mugwu » Tue, 01 Oct 1996 04:00:00


Well I think it's about time we brought back our old friend
the War of the Roses.

Yes I know the last time we ran this competition it was a joke -
players pulling out because they had other commitments, cruddy
coaches, the competition being played on a Wednesday night when
nobody and his dog could manage to get there.

But c'mon this is one hell of a marketable product, quite a few
people would be in favour of turning this fixture into an
Australian State of Origin facsimilie and for the life of me
I can't see why we couldn't.

Of course there would have to be a few ground rules before
we started.

1. Three matches played on consecutive weeks with NO other
league fixtures scheduled.

2. The two coaches who finished with the best record in the
previous season taking control of either side.

3. Selection for representative matches will be based chiefly
on the performances of players in these games.

4. Any player who declined to play without good reason would
not be considered for representative honours.

IMO these matches could solve a hell of a lot of problems for
the RL.

Firstly it would be one hell of a competition, imagine this.

Lancashire              Yorkshire
1. Spruce               1. Flowers
2. Hayes                2. Robinson
3. Connolly             3. Cummins
4. McAvoy               4. Newlove
5. Arnold               5. Hunte
6. Harris               6. Smith
7. Goulding             7. Aston
8. O'Connor             8. Broadbent
9. Cunningham           9. Lowes
10. Cowie               10. McDermott
11. Joynt               11. Morley
12. Sculthope           12. Nickle
13. Farrell             13. Wright

I don't know about you but I would be booking my ticket
for these matches at the start of the season.

Secondly with all these stars on the field at the same time
the RFL could really sell this game as a "showpiece" event,
IMO the TV companies would be falling over themselves to get
the rights, the games could be taken to development areas giving
the RL newcomer the chance to see the best in the country toughing
it out against each other.

Thirdly the players would benefit no end from a these "pressure
cooker" type games, IMO far too many players these days are judged
"world-beaters" for the exploits against teams which I could only
describe as being mediocre. With test jerseys up for grabs each
player would have to play at 100% or face the consequences and with
the opposition being a virtual mirror image in strength the men
would really be sorted out from the boys.

These County of Origin matches IMO would force our top players to
raise their game to a standard which would be required to sustain
a credible challenge to the Australians the next time we do battle.

All in all it's a win, win, win situation, the players get better,
the fans get their pound of flesh and the RL get three extra matches
which even they couldn't fail to market.

Sounds good to me, what do you think?

Mugwump

P.S. Just think a Yorkshire side would actually be in with a shout
of winning a trophy :)

    !!    |-------------------------------------------|    !!

   !!!!   |Haydock, St Helens, Merseyside, England    |   !!!!
  /    \  |-------------------------------------------|  /    \
 ( O||O ) |"I think it's time for you boys to share my| ( O||O )
 (  /\  ) |last taste of the true black meat - flesh  | (  /\  )
  (/##\)  |of the giant aquatic Brazilian Centipede"  |  (/##\)

 
 
 

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by WiganRLf » Tue, 01 Oct 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
(Mugwump) writes:
>Sounds good to me, what do you think?

I think its a really good idea but only if you organise it as a *proper*
series along the lines you state.

However, there is one fly in the ointment - expansionism.

The powers that be are trying (with the usual ineptitude) to expand the
game out of the M62 corridor, which for the colonials on r.s.r.l, means
outside the old Lancashire and Yorkshire boundaries.

I just can't see the hierarchy setting up something the in any way
reinforces the old order :(

A question to the Aussies, how is SoO seen outside NSW and Queensland?  Or
to put it another way, if ever an Adelaide team gets going and RL is
expanded out  of the two traditional states what will they do with SoO?

Dave

Dave

Wigan RLFC - Simply the Best

 
 
 

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by Paul Matthe » Tue, 01 Oct 1996 04:00:00



Quote:
>Well I think it's about time we brought back our old friend
>the War of the Roses.

<snip>
>But c'mon this is one hell of a marketable product, quite a few
>people would be in favour of turning this fixture into an
>Australian State of Origin facsimilie and for the life of me
>I can't see why we couldn't.

<SNIP>
>Lancashire          Yorkshire
>1. Spruce           1. Flowers
>2. Hayes            2. Robinson
>3. Connolly         3. Cummins
>4. McAvoy           4. Newlove
>5. Arnold           5. Hunte
>6. Harris           6. Smith
>7. Goulding         7. Aston
>8. O'Connor         8. Broadbent
>9. Cunningham               9. Lowes
>10. Cowie           10. McDermott
>11. Joynt           11. Morley
>12. Sculthope               12. Nickle
>13. Farrell         13. Wright

<snip>
>Secondly with all these stars on the field at the same time
>the RFL could really sell this game as a "showpiece" event,
>IMO the TV companies would be falling over themselves to get
>the rights, the games could be taken to development areas giving
>the RL newcomer the chance to see the best in the country toughing
>it out against each other.

This suggestion could be altered a little for the european
championships,

Similar statements were made last season about the EC.

This year it clashed with the footy and the RL season.

It was played in development areas (Newcastle, London, Wales)

Nobody seemed to be fighting for the TV Right.s

I really would like to see something like state of origin UK style,
but there needs to be the commitment there all round - players,
coaches, RFL. It needs to be Marketed, which is something the RFL have
shown themselves to be completely incapable of.

We now have an incredibly long close season. Now is the time such
events should be played. It is way too late for this season, but now
is the time to plan for next season. If the county championship was
planned to be a little after the season, it gives a little time for a
break before, then a few weeks county training. It also gives our top
players something to do in the long close season, without playing RU.

Paul.

 
 
 

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by Mugwu » Tue, 01 Oct 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


>(Mugwump) writes:

>>Sounds good to me, what do you think?

>I think its a really good idea but only if you organise it as a *proper*
>series along the lines you state.

>However, there is one fly in the ointment - expansionism.

>The powers that be are trying (with the usual ineptitude) to expand the
>game out of the M62 corridor, which for the colonials on r.s.r.l, means
>outside the old Lancashire and Yorkshire boundaries.

>I just can't see the hierarchy setting up something the in any way
>reinforces the old order :(

IMO expansionism has absolutely nothing to do with it, the RFL has a
product which if implemented properly would solve a multitude of problems.

If they are going to be so pedantic we could call it East v West, who
cares as long as we can get it up and running.

Mugwump

Quote:

>Wigan RLFC - Simply the Best

    !!    |-------------------------------------------|    !!

   !!!!   |Haydock, St Helens, Merseyside, England    |   !!!!
  /    \  |-------------------------------------------|  /    \
 ( O||O ) |"I think it's time for you boys to share my| ( O||O )
 (  /\  ) |last taste of the true black meat - flesh  | (  /\  )
  (/##\)  |of the giant aquatic Brazilian Centipede"  |  (/##\)
 
 
 

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by Mugwu » Tue, 01 Oct 1996 04:00:00


Quote:



>>Secondly with all these stars on the field at the same time
>>the RFL could really sell this game as a "showpiece" event,
>>IMO the TV companies would be falling over themselves to get
>>the rights, the games could be taken to development areas giving
>>the RL newcomer the chance to see the best in the country toughing
>>it out against each other.
>This suggestion could be altered a little for the european
>championships,
>Similar statements were made last season about the EC.

>This year it clashed with the footy and the RL season.

It would be played during the season.

Quote:
>It was played in development areas (Newcastle, London, Wales)

>Nobody seemed to be fighting for the TV Right.s

Most of the time there was nothing at stake and none of those matches
boasted the talent which this game could throw up.

Quote:
>I really would like to see something like state of origin UK style,
>but there needs to be the commitment there all round - players,
>coaches, RFL. It needs to be Marketed, which is something the RFL have
>shown themselves to be completely incapable of.

Agreed.

Quote:
>We now have an incredibly long close season. Now is the time such
>events should be played. It is way too late for this season, but now
>is the time to plan for next season. If the county championship was
>planned to be a little after the season, it gives a little time for a
>break before, then a few weeks county training. It also gives our top
>players something to do in the long close season, without playing RU.

The County Cups are IMO a waste of time, they aren't marketable and
you can virtually guarantee the winner before the competition even
kicks off.

As I said before I would play these three matches smack bang in the
middle of the playing season and again I can't see where we could lose.

Mugwump

Quote:
>Paul.

    !!    |-------------------------------------------|    !!

   !!!!   |Haydock, St Helens, Merseyside, England    |   !!!!
  /    \  |-------------------------------------------|  /    \
 ( O||O ) |"I think it's time for you boys to share my| ( O||O )
 (  /\  ) |last taste of the true black meat - flesh  | (  /\  )
  (/##\)  |of the giant aquatic Brazilian Centipede"  |  (/##\)
 
 
 

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by SAM » Tue, 01 Oct 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
> A question to the Aussies, how is SoO seen outside NSW and Queensland?  Or
> to put it another way, if ever an Adelaide team gets going and RL is
> expanded out  of the two traditional states what will they do with SoO?

The only proposed change so far would be to add NZ to SoO. I think it would***it up
myself.

Gavin.

 
 
 

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by Simon Sherbur » Tue, 01 Oct 1996 04:00:00


net.com> writes

Quote:
>Well I think it's about time we brought back our old friend
>the War of the Roses.

YES

[SNIP]

Quote:

>Sounds good to me, what do you think?

I thought it was abandonded due to lack of interest by the fans.  The
last one I saw had a very healthy crowd on a cold night at Headingley.
The game was played with a high level of loyality and commitment.  I
agree it should be brough back.
Quote:

>Mugwump

>P.S. Just think a Yorkshire side would actually be in with a shout
>of winning a trophy :)

This was the "real" reason IMO that ML stopped the competition.  8-)
Quote:

>    !!    |-------------------------------------------|    !!

>   !!!!   |Haydock, St Helens, Merseyside, England    |   !!!!
>  /    \  |-------------------------------------------|  /    \
> ( O||O ) |"I think it's time for you boys to share my| ( O||O )
> (  /\  ) |last taste of the true black meat - flesh  | (  /\  )
>  (/##\)  |of the giant aquatic Brazilian Centipede"  |  (/##\)

Just keep taking the tablets...

Simon Sherburn, Castleford, West Yorkshire, England.

The difference between genius and stupidity:  Genius has limits.

 
 
 

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by Adam Wilkinso » Wed, 02 Oct 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> I really would like to see something like state of origin UK style,
> but there needs to be the commitment there all round - players,
> coaches, RFL. It needs to be Marketed, which is something the RFL have
> shown themselves to be completely incapable of.

Marketing is the key.  A State of the Origin style tournament has stacks of
potential, and a well marketed product would definitely (well, probably)
work.  The key has to be financial rewards all round.  If players, coaches,
everyone involved was offered good financial incentives then I'm sure there
would be commitment - no matter when the games are played.  Of course this
won't be easy, but if it is sold correctly I believe there would be someone
willing to buy in to it.  Is this the sort of thing that RL (Europe) LTD is
supposed to do?

How about getting the War of the Roses sponsored by Roses (the chocolates)?
 Hey, that's pretty good isn't it?  Didn't I hear there was a job going at
RL (Europe) LTD?  I'm waiting for the call.

Adam.

 
 
 

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by Ian Walke » Wed, 02 Oct 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> Well I think it's about time we brought back our old friend
> the War of the Roses.

When the game is trying to get away from it's northern game image a
Lancashire v Yorkshire clash is not the answer. Not only does it exclude
the Cumbrians but also any British London players (ie. Tulsen Tolett?).
Also what about the true Welshmen (as opposed to those in the Welsh team
whose father or mother once ate a leek).

If you are wanting some kind of mid-season challenge match what about a
GB SL select versus an Other Nations SL Select. Just think a team with
the likes of :-

Tuigamala, H Paul, R Paul, G Bradley, T Matterson, Gill, Henari, Mc Vey,
Perrilini  to name but a few.

--
-------------------------------------------------------
   The opinions expressed in this message are my own
  and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.
-------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by Mugwu » Wed, 02 Oct 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


>> Well I think it's about time we brought back our old friend
>> the War of the Roses.

>When the game is trying to get away from it's northern game image a
>Lancashire v Yorkshire clash is not the answer. Not only does it exclude
>the Cumbrians but also any British London players (ie. Tulsen Tolett?).
>Also what about the true Welshmen (as opposed to those in the Welsh team
>whose father or mother once ate a leek).

>If you are wanting some kind of mid-season challenge match what about a
>GB SL select versus an Other Nations SL Select. Just think a team with
>the likes of :-

>Tuigamala, H Paul, R Paul, G Bradley, T Matterson, Gill, Henari, Mc Vey,
>Perrilini  to name but a few.

It wouldn't work.

Why?

Because there is nothing at stake.

If we based test selection around these War of the Roses games we would
guarantee ultra-competetive games played at a standard which could only
be equalled at test match level.

GB v Rest of the world is OK but it would only be of novelty value.

As for Cumbrians and London players, well the Australians seem to do OK
with their SoO games, I'm quite sure that not every Australian RL player
was born in Queensland or NSW.

Mugwump

    !!    |-------------------------------------------|    !!

   !!!!   |Haydock, St Helens, Merseyside, England    |   !!!!
  /    \  |-------------------------------------------|  /    \
 ( O||O ) |"I think it's time for you boys to share my| ( O||O )
 (  /\  ) |last taste of the true black meat - flesh  | (  /\  )
  (/##\)  |of the giant aquatic Brazilian Centipede"  |  (/##\)

 
 
 

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by Vibrating Bum-Faced Goa » Wed, 02 Oct 1996 04:00:00


: >
: >If you are wanting some kind of mid-season challenge match what about a
: >GB SL select versus an Other Nations SL Select. Just think a team with
: >the likes of :-
: >
: >Tuigamala, H Paul, R Paul, G Bradley, T Matterson, Gill, Henari, Mc Vey,
: >Perrilini  to name but a few.

: It wouldn't work.

: Why?

: Because there is nothing at stake.

What's at stake in a Roses match that isn't in a GBSL v ONSL match?

: If we based test selection around these War of the Roses games we would
: guarantee ultra-competetive games played at a standard which could only
: be equalled at test match level.

I'm open minded about a competition of this sort but of the arguments
I've seen presented I'd go with Ian's idea of Other Nations v GB
selected from British SL teams.

These games would be competitive (more so to my mind) and would certainly
be nearer to test level than Yorks v Lancs.

On the other hand, a GB select of players playing in this country is
effectively going to be the GB team without Dennis Betts. The Other
Nations team would have some damned fine players in there but you
couldn't really expect them to play for their jersey and put everything
into the games.

: GB v Rest of the world is OK but it would only be of novelty value.

I've talked myself into it, I'm on your side now. :)

: As for Cumbrians and London players, well the Australians seem to do OK
: with their SoO games, I'm quite sure that not every Australian RL player
: was born in Queensland or NSW.

Adrian Lam does a good job in a QLD shirt, coming as he does from a
different country entirely.

--
Chris Russell                       | Unofficial Rugby League Home Page:
Electronic Imaging Unit             |
University of Bradford              | http://www.eimc.brad.ac.uk/~vbfg/

TEL: +44 1274 385463                |
FAX: +44 1274 687834                |

 
 
 

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by Malc Brook » Wed, 02 Oct 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>: As for Cumbrians and London players, well the Australians seem to do OK
>: with their SoO games, I'm quite sure that not every Australian RL player
>: was born in Queensland or NSW.

>Adrian Lam does a good job in a QLD shirt, coming as he does from a
>different country entirely.

As I understand it the SoO selection allows something based on the
state you first played RL in if you weren't born in either state, or
something like that, hence the likes of Adrian Lam of PNG playing for
QLD when there were no SL aligned players available (a bit pointless
though for an Oz selection exercise). Used over here players like
Offiah and Davies could have been classed as Lancs having first played
RL for Widnes. It doesn't help too much with Cumbria and London
though, unless Cumbria is classed as west (Lancs) and London as east
(Yorks).

regards, Malc
__________________________________________________________
 Malc Brookes, St Helens, England

 "One day I'll think of something witty for my .sig file"

 
 
 

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by p matthe » Wed, 02 Oct 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>If you are wanting some kind of mid-season challenge match what about a
>GB SL select versus an Other Nations SL Select. Just think a team with
>the likes of :-

>Tuigamala, H Paul, R Paul, G Bradley, T Matterson, Gill, Henari, Mc Vey,
>Perrilini  to name but a few.

By any chance would they wear a black and white kit, but with their
own nations socks? Now what would be a good name for this team other
than "rest of World", Let me see, how about the barbarians?
-------------------------------------------------
"You can't search my soul without a Warrant"


Westhoughton, Lancs UK
-------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by Southern_Jessi » Wed, 02 Oct 1996 04:00:00


|>
|> > A question to the Aussies, how is SoO seen outside NSW and Queensland?  Or
|> > to put it another way, if ever an Adelaide team gets going and RL is
|> > expanded out  of the two traditional states what will they do with SoO?
|> >
|> The only proposed change so far would be to add NZ to SoO. I think it would |>screw it up myself.
|>
|> Gavin.

        I thought the whole point of the SoO was the teams were made up
        according to where the people concerned first played RL?  Or is
        it pro RL?  In either case wouldn't the NZ team be rather
        small?  I've said it before (and I'll probably say it again),
        add a GB team to the competition.  Imagine the team you could
        raise - Inge, presumably the Paul brothers if we're talking
        pro rugby, Connolly, Farrell, er, Robinson, er, we could er,
        call it, er Wigan :-(

SJ

 
 
 

Bring back the WAR!!!!

Post by Paul McNall » Wed, 02 Oct 1996 04:00:00


net.com> writes

Quote:

>Lancashire             Yorkshire
>1. Spruce              1. Flowers
>2. Hayes               2. Robinson
>3. Connolly            3. Cummins
>4. McAvoy              4. Newlove
>5. Arnold              5. Hunte
>6. Harris              6. Smith
>7. Goulding            7. Aston
>8. O'Connor            8. Broadbent
>9. Cunningham          9. Lowes
>10. Cowie              10. McDermott
>11. Joynt              11. Morley
>12. Sculthope          12. Nickle
>13. Farrell            13. Wright

I'd like to see it back too but if you're having a county of origin type
affair between Lancs and Yorks I think you can't include players who
turned their back on playing for England and chose Wales etc....

I doubt (but await to be corrected) that SOO contains and Kiwis or PNG
players...

Neil Cowie might have been born in Rochdale or wherever but  if he
chooses to say he isn't English at what point does he become elible for
an English County side?

I know there's a counter argument for this in that if a player was born
in a county then he's eligble but it then highlights the mockery that is
people choosing Wales, Scotland or Ireland just so they can grab the odd
international cap.

Shoot me down anyway.....

Paul
         ww
    |\---/ >

     \____/      --------------------------------------------