The Future of the Game

The Future of the Game

Post by Fine Bo » Fri, 26 Apr 1996 04:00:00


A recent posting on this news group gave details of a SUper League
international competition including USA, Japan, Hong Kong, SOuth Africa
etc...

A further posting revealed that these matches will not now be played,
apparently because of the main sponsor pulling out. No help has
come from the RL to get the competition off the ground, and it has
been cancelled - susposedly for 1 year.

IMO this is a disaster for the game outside of Britain.  How can
junior developing League nation be expected to survive without
interantional competition to raise the profile of the game.

How can they survive without any help from the International Board
of the RL.

The answer is - they can't.

Today I have read that RL in South Africe has failed - due having no
assistance from the RL:

Ockie Oosthuizen is reported to have said:

"We have done everything in our power to promote the game in South
Africa, but it will never be possible to keep the game going without
the support of the international governing body."

The RL *must* realise that the game in developing nations around the
world is coming under emense pressure, increasing now due to the open
professionallism of the RU.  The game in these countries is dying,
any delay in installing a meaningful international competition - even
for only one year - will destroy any hopes of further international
expansion.  Instead these nations will just turn to RU - which has
a much sounder international base.

WIthout a credible number of international teams the game in  this
country will become isolated - and this can only lead to eventual
amalgamation with RU, probably on less than favourable terms.

Once again the RL as an international body has failed to see the
significance of expansion - even the SUper League with its grand
designs could only muster 1 team outside England - not even a presence
in Wales, Scotland or Ireland.  

I am a life long RL supporter - I used to watch Kent Invicta - but
my patience with RL is running out.  I want to see the game respected
world wide, but time is running out.  My passion for the game can
only take so many set backs and missed opportunities and it is waining.

To me, the future of RL begins to look bleak, as even the most clear
cut opportunities for growth and consolidtaion are squandered time
and again.

I hope someone has something to say that will restore my faith -
but somehow; I doubt it.

Mike ROgers

http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~rogersm/wigan/wigan.html

 
 
 

The Future of the Game

Post by Dr J.S. Marsla » Sat, 27 Apr 1996 04:00:00

: A recent posting on this news group gave details of a SUper League
: international competition including USA, Japan, Hong Kong, SOuth Africa
: etc...

I think you will find that was a Union tournament.  Some Unionist saw
fit to cross post to r.s.r.union and r.s.r.league though God knows why.

In general I agree with what you say although I don't foresee a merger
with Union.  Lindsay or someone similar may try it but the fans wouldn't
follow them.  I think the biggest casualty of the Murdoch debacle will
be international expansion because the RFL and ARL will not be able to
agree to a reasonable development plan.  Lets face it no-one knows if
there will even be a British tour of Australia this autumn yet and the
international club play-off is equally uncertain.

Allegedly Lindsay's big idea for the expansion of the Superleague
involves Barcelona and Rome.  I can see Barcelona working out; there
is already a Catalan team playing in the French league; not so sure
about Rome - perhaps Milan would be better?

All the best
--
John
The Yorkshire motto updated:  Hear all, see all, say nowt;
Eat all, sup all, pay nowt; Read all, lurk all, post nowt;
And if tha'ever do's owt for nowt allus do it for thi'sen.

 
 
 

The Future of the Game

Post by Dave Fish » Sat, 27 Apr 1996 04:00:00


<SNIP>

Quote:
>Allegedly Lindsay's big idea for the expansion of the Superleague
>involves Barcelona and Rome.  I can see Barcelona working out; there
>is already a Catalan team playing in the French league; not so sure
>about Rome - perhaps Milan would be better?

John
In relative terms I think you might be right about Milan (i.e. it has far more
people, cash, and connections to the rest of Europe than Rome), but I think too
many people are believing RU's own self-deception about the depth of Rugby in
Italy. It is true that RU is professional there, and it does get an occasional
airing on TV, but the stadia are invariably empty.

Italians may well be willing to give RL a go if it gets itself a fashionable
band-wagon going, but can you foresee that?

Like you say, the sound of low-flying bacon will be ringing in our ears until
the ESL and ARL make their peace. I'd suggest Mo makes the first move
since he's got little face to lose, and the ARL have got a surplus of the
stuff.

Dave

 
 
 

The Future of the Game

Post by Chris Woo » Sat, 27 Apr 1996 04:00:00

In a message of 25 Apr 96 Fine Bob wrote to All:

 FB> A recent posting on this news group gave details of a SUper League
 FB> international competition including USA, Japan, Hong Kong, SOuth Africa
 FB> etc...

 FB> A further posting revealed that these matches will not now be played,
 FB> apparently because of the main sponsor pulling out. No help has come
 FB> from the RL to get the competition off the ground, and it has been
 FB> cancelled - susposedly for 1 year.

 FB> IMO this is a disaster for the game outside of Britain.  How can  junior
 FB> developing League nation be expected to survive without interantional
 FB> competition to raise the profile of the game.

 FB> How can they survive without any help from the International Board of
 FB> the RL.

 FB> The answer is - they can't.

 FB> Today I have read that RL in South Africe has failed - due having no
 FB> assistance from the RL:

 FB> Ockie Oosthuizen is reported to have said:

 FB> "We have done everything in our power to promote the game in South
 FB> Africa, but it will never be possible to keep the game going without the
 FB> support of the international governing body."

 FB> The RL *must* realise that the game in developing nations around the
 FB> world is coming under emense pressure, increasing now due to the open
 FB> professionallism of the RU.  The game in these countries is dying,  any
 FB> delay in installing a meaningful international competition - even for
 FB> only one year - will destroy any hopes of further international
 FB> expansion.  Instead these nations will just turn to RU - which has a
 FB> much sounder international base.

 FB> WIthout a credible number of international teams the game in  this
 FB> country will become isolated - and this can only lead to eventual
 FB> amalgamation with RU, probably on less than favourable terms.

 FB> Once again the RL as an international body has failed to see the
 FB> significance of expansion - even the SUper League with its grand designs
 FB> could only muster 1 team outside England - not even a presence in Wales,
 FB> Scotland or Ireland.  

 FB> I am a life long RL supporter - I used to watch Kent Invicta - but my
 FB> patience with RL is running out.  I want to see the game respected world
 FB> wide, but time is running out.  My passion for the game can  only take
 FB> so many set backs and missed opportunities and it is waining.

 FB> To me, the future of RL begins to look bleak, as even the most clear cut
 FB> opportunities for growth and consolidtaion are squandered time and
 FB> again.

 FB> I hope someone has something to say that will restore my faith -  but
 FB> somehow; I doubt it.

 FB> Mike ROgers

erm.... The RFL have appointed Scotlands first development officer... erm..

*Chris* *Wood*

Wigan *Forever*, Saints *Never*!

 ... Spock, I though you were dead!"    "I rebooted, Captain."

 
 
 

The Future of the Game

Post by Tholi » Sun, 28 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>A recent posting on this news group gave details of a SUper League
>international competition including USA, Japan, Hong Kong, SOuth Africa
>etc...
>A further posting revealed that these matches will not now be played,
>apparently because of the main sponsor pulling out. No help has
>come from the RL to get the competition off the ground, and it has
>been cancelled - susposedly for 1 year.
>IMO this is a disaster for the game outside of Britain.  How can
>junior developing League nation be expected to survive without
>interantional competition to raise the profile of the game.
>How can they survive without any help from the International Board
>of the RL.
>The answer is - they can't.
>Today I have read that RL in South Africe has failed - due having no
>assistance from the RL:
>Ockie Oosthuizen is reported to have said:
>"We have done everything in our power to promote the game in South
>Africa, but it will never be possible to keep the game going without
>the support of the international governing body."
>The RL *must* realise that the game in developing nations around the
>world is coming under emense pressure, increasing now due to the open
>professionallism of the RU.  The game in these countries is dying,
>any delay in installing a meaningful international competition - even
>for only one year - will destroy any hopes of further international
>expansion.  Instead these nations will just turn to RU - which has
>a much sounder international base.
>WIthout a credible number of international teams the game in  this
>country will become isolated - and this can only lead to eventual
>amalgamation with RU, probably on less than favourable terms.
>Once again the RL as an international body has failed to see the
>significance of expansion - even the SUper League with its grand
>designs could only muster 1 team outside England - not even a presence
>in Wales, Scotland or Ireland.  
>I am a life long RL supporter - I used to watch Kent Invicta - but
>my patience with RL is running out.  I want to see the game respected
>world wide, but time is running out.  My passion for the game can
>only take so many set backs and missed opportunities and it is waining.
>To me, the future of RL begins to look bleak, as even the most clear
>cut opportunities for growth and consolidtaion are squandered time
>and again.
>I hope someone has something to say that will restore my faith -
>but somehow; I doubt it.

Absolutely right Mike, the game lacks a worldwide platform and needs
the credibility that it would get from more nations coming on board.
Let us hope they get this right. Personally I thouhgt it was awful
that the Russians and Moldovans were relegated to the second tier at
the world cup.

What time is it - Vadertime

----------------------------------------------------------------
Tholian

---------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

The Future of the Game

Post by Steve Unswor » Mon, 29 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Quote:
>Personally I thouhgt it was awful that the Russians
> and Moldovans were relegated to the second tier
> at the world cup.

I saw the Russians play at Leigh, and to be honest if they had been in
with the big boys they would have been absolutely stuffed.

Regards

Steve Unsworth

ps The Russians were playing the Cooke Islands, but there was no
recording of the Cooke Islands national anthem, so the squad sang it
'A Cappella' - I don't know what the Russians thought, but it
certainly put the fear of God into me :-)

 
 
 

The Future of the Game

Post by Paul McNall » Mon, 29 Apr 1996 04:00:00



Quote:
>I saw the Russians play at Leigh, and to be honest if they had been in
>with the big boys they would have been absolutely stuffed.

Agreed it would have done them more harm than good. It's all very well
expanding but if you do it so quickly you trip over yourself what's the
point?
        ww
    |\---/ >

     \____/      --------------------------------------------

 
 
 

The Future of the Game

Post by Vibrating Bum-Faced Goa » Thu, 02 May 1996 04:00:00

<SNIP>

: Absolutely right Mike, the game lacks a worldwide platform and needs
: the credibility that it would get from more nations coming on board.
: Let us hope they get this right. Personally I thouhgt it was awful
: that the Russians and Moldovans were relegated to the second tier at
: the world cup.

I think it would have done them more harm than good to be playing the
likes of Australia, GB and New Zealand though. A two-tier competition is
absolutely the right way to go to my mind. For one thing these teams can
play and *compete* against teams of similar standing rather than having
cricket scores run past them, a la South Africa. I don't think Russia or
Moldova are of the standard yet, or in the forseeable future to be honest,
where they could be competitive against the top flight.

It doesn't make good TV to neutrals or the country watching their side
getting a pasting to be having a tournemant of one sided matches. In the
event we got two highly competitive international competitions running
side by side.

There were two things that did***me off about the World Cup:

1) The lack of coverage on the BBC. We get Live TV at home, who broadcast
all the games, but given that their other major sporting event is ***
Darts (which I concede does have it's good points :) you can tell what the
coverage was like.

2) Japan and Canada weren't in the Emerging Nations Cup. It's fair enough
that Japan would have had difficulty fielding a full squad. Quite a few of
those who have played in the World Sevens in the past have been forced to
quit by their companies. Canada, on the other hand, has something of a
domestic League competition in place and should have been rewarded with a
place in the tournament. They were desperate to come here too, they wouldn't
have won anything but they could have given a good account of themselves.

--
Bradford Bulls RLFC      | Rugby League Home Page:
Wembley Finalists 1996   | http://SportToday.org/~cgrussel/
British Beef - You won't | Full club-by-club guide to the 1996
get better!              | European Super League season

 
 
 

The Future of the Game

Post by James A. Nichols » Fri, 03 May 1996 04:00:00


[liberally snipped throughout]

Quote:
> There were two things that did***me off about the World Cup:

> 2) Japan and Canada weren't in the Emerging Nations Cup. It's fair enough
> that Japan would have had difficulty fielding a full squad. Quite a few of
> those who have played in the World Sevens in the past have been forced to
> quit by their companies. Canada, on the other hand, has something of a
> domestic League competition in place

Not to be pedantic or anything, but IMO this is a myth perpetuated in
order to make RL folk feel better about world development of their game.
Where is this mythical Canadian RL club competition?  AFAIK, the Canadian
RL squad is composed of RU players (there are lots to choose from) having
a go at RL; most of the players come from three or four RU clubs in
Ontario and Quebec.  RL has no more profile in Canada than does Aussie Rules
(less, actually).  Believe me, if there was a club RL comp here I would be
more than interested; but even if there are a few lads playing RL on
summer weekends, that doesn't qualify as a "domestic League competition".
There needs to be at least enough public profile that interested players
have a chance to play (HINT HINT).

Quote:
> and should have been rewarded with a
> place in the tournament. They were desperate to come here too, they wouldn't
> have won anything but they could have given a good account of themselves.

Not only that, but the only way RL will *ever* get developed in Canada is
if there is an international profile to compare with that of RU.  the RU
World Cup (especially the '91 comp) has done wonders for the profile of
the game in this country.

Cheers,
Jim
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------WSL#3v.44r8

 
 
 

The Future of the Game

Post by HOWZ » Sun, 05 May 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

><SNIP>
>: Absolutely right Mike, the game lacks a worldwide platform and needs
>: the credibility that it would get from more nations coming on board.
>: Let us hope they get this right. Personally I thouhgt it was awful
>: that the Russians and Moldovans were relegated to the second tier at
>: the world cup.
>I think it would have done them more harm than good to be playing the
>likes of Australia, GB and New Zealand though. A two-tier competition is
>absolutely the right way to go to my mind. For one thing these teams can
>play and *compete* against teams of similar standing rather than having
>cricket scores run past them, a la South Africa. I don't think Russia or
>Moldova are of the standard yet, or in the forseeable future to be honest,
>where they could be competitive against the top flight.

In the football world cups the African, central American and Asian
nations used to turn up and takle horrendous beatings, they don't now.
The point is you need to see the profile of the game raised. After all
the S africans were less deserving of their place but Lindsay put them
in for obvious reasons.

Quote:
>It doesn't make good TV to neutrals or the country watching their side
>getting a pasting to be having a tournemant of one sided matches. In the
>event we got two highly competitive international competitions running
>side by side.

One of which no-one with less than a passing interest in the sport
knew about.

Quote:
>There were two things that did***me off about the World Cup:
>1) The lack of coverage on the BBC. We get Live TV at home, who broadcast
>all the games, but given that their other major sporting event is ***
>Darts (which I concede does have it's good points :) you can tell what the
>coverage was like.

And people moan about SKY signing up sproting rights too. You are, of
course, quite right.

Quote:
>2) Japan and Canada weren't in the Emerging Nations Cup. It's fair enough
>that Japan would have had difficulty fielding a full squad. Quite a few of
>those who have played in the World Sevens in the past have been forced to
>quit by their companies. Canada, on the other hand, has something of a
>domestic League competition in place and should have been rewarded with a
>place in the tournament. They were desperate to come here too, they wouldn't
>have won anything but they could have given a good account of themselves.

It is no surpirse really
 
 
 

The Future of the Game

Post by Mike Roger » Sun, 05 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>: A recent posting on this news group gave details of a SUper League
>: international competition including USA, Japan, Hong Kong, SOuth
>Africa
>: etc...

>I think you will find that was a Union tournament.  Some Unionist saw
>fit to cross post to r.s.r.union and r.s.r.league though God knows why.

No, it was definetly a RL tournament.  I may have
got the teams wrong a bit I think they included
Western Samoa, Fiji, PNG, Tonga, USA. South Africa, Japan.

Maurice announced that it has been 'temporaraily' postponed
until the outcome of the Super League appeal down under.

If the same sort of problems exist in Union as well then
at least we're not losing too much ground.

Yours
Mike
--
Webmaster:
              Wigan RL Supporters Home Pages
      http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~rogersm/wigan/wigan.html

                   P.T.S. WWW Authoring
       http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~rogersm/pts/pts.html

 
 
 

The Future of the Game

Post by Vibrating Bum-Faced Goa » Tue, 07 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


>>: A recent posting on this news group gave details of a SUper League
>>: international competition including USA, Japan, Hong Kong, SOuth
>>Africa
>>: etc...

>>I think you will find that was a Union tournament.  Some Unionist saw
>>fit to cross post to r.s.r.union and r.s.r.league though God knows why.
>No, it was definetly a RL tournament.  I may have
>got the teams wrong a bit I think they included
>Western Samoa, Fiji, PNG, Tonga, USA. South Africa, Japan.
>Maurice announced that it has been 'temporaraily' postponed
>until the outcome of the Super League appeal down under.

The Oceania Cup I think it was called. I didn't know they'd pulled the
plug on it.

Bradford Bulls RLFC      | Rugby League Home Page:
Wembley Finalists 1996   | http://www.brad.ac.uk/~cgrussel/
                         | Full club-by-club guide to the 1996
Mooland Uber Alles!!     | European Super League season

 
 
 

The Future of the Game

Post by HOWZ » Tue, 07 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


>>: A recent posting on this news group gave details of a SUper League
>>: international competition including USA, Japan, Hong Kong, SOuth
>>Africa
>>: etc...

>>I think you will find that was a Union tournament.  Some Unionist saw
>>fit to cross post to r.s.r.union and r.s.r.league though God knows why.
>No, it was definetly a RL tournament.  I may have
>got the teams wrong a bit I think they included
>Western Samoa, Fiji, PNG, Tonga, USA. South Africa, Japan.
>Maurice announced that it has been 'temporaraily' postponed
>until the outcome of the Super League appeal down under.
>If the same sort of problems exist in Union as well then
>at least we're not losing too much ground.

Losing ground, that is not the point, it is not a competiton between
both codes it is a case of tgetting as many people as possible to
play, watch and enjoy the game. I like Rugby full stop and think the
loss of both contests are tragic.
 
 
 

The Future of the Game

Post by Vibrating Bum-Faced Goa » Wed, 08 May 1996 04:00:00



: [liberally snipped throughout]

<DITTO>

: > quit by their companies. Canada, on the other hand, has something of a
: > domestic League competition in place

: Not to be pedantic or anything, but IMO this is a myth perpetuated in
: order to make RL folk feel better about world development of their game.
: Where is this mythical Canadian RL club competition?  AFAIK, the Canadian

They're city specific if I remember this right with one based in Toronto
and the other in Montreal. I seem to remember the winners of each one
played in a final at the end of the season, or something similar. I used
to keep the results on my web site but whoever was sending them to me
stopped some time ago. I'll see if I can find out more about it for you,
for all I know it could have been a pub League - I just never managed to
get any real detail about it.

: RL squad is composed of RU players (there are lots to choose from) having
: a go at RL; most of the players come from three or four RU clubs in
: Ontario and Quebec.  RL has no more profile in Canada than does Aussie Rules
: (less, actually).  Believe me, if there was a club RL comp here I would be
: more than interested; but even if there are a few lads playing RL on
: summer weekends, that doesn't qualify as a "domestic League competition".

I never said as such, I said "something of a domestic League competition"
which to my mind is different.

: There needs to be at least enough public profile that interested players
: have a chance to play (HINT HINT).

: > and should have been rewarded with a
: > place in the tournament. They were desperate to come here too, they wouldn't
: > have won anything but they could have given a good account of themselves.

: Not only that, but the only way RL will *ever* get developed in Canada is
: if there is an international profile to compare with that of RU.  the RU
: World Cup (especially the '91 comp) has done wonders for the profile of
: the game in this country.

Agreed. A long time ago, i.e. pre-war, touring Lions teams used to stop
off in Canada on route back from Australia to play a few exhibition games.
I'm told that Canadian Football and RL were more or less the same game
back then which might go someway to explaining the massive crowds they
got. Trouble is, they never followed it up and now Canadian RL is in the
schtuck it's in today.

--
Bradford Bulls RLFC      | Rugby League Home Page:
Wembley Finalists 1996   | http://www.brad.ac.uk/~cgrussel/
British Beef - You won't | Full club-by-club guide to the 1996
get better!              | European Super League season