Andy Gregory.

Andy Gregory.

Post by Antonioni P » Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:00:00


"Little" Andy Gregory was in the papers saying that we're now further
behind than in 1990 and that European clubs are way out of it in the WCC.
I assume there's a little kidology in there cos he was also saying that we
hadn't seen the real Salford. (I stayed up on Sunday morning to get very
disappointed by Salford's defence and tactics in the game. I think full
strength Saints or Bradford or Wigan teams would have done the same to
them on that showing).

I don't really agree. Now I can understand that everyone is going to say
what a nutter, but I don't think that in the games I've seen, Warrington
 excepted, any of the UK teams have played to their full potential.

London made enough unforced errors to wipe the grimace of Tony Currie's
face. Saints were under strength, but also kept turning over the ball,
Leeds stopped concentrating and Salford were just disgraceful by their own
standards.

It all begs the question why. For a start, it shouldn't be about fitness
since ESL are all full time now and that was supposed to stop the rot. And
half the sides have Aussie coaches, and successful ones at that. And I
don't think there's any less skill in the UK sides. So why did everyone
make such poor efforts?

I felt like, Broncos excepted here, half the sides just accepted defeat
too early. We all know Aussie defences are hard. But they are not
unbreakable. If you can't power through them, you have to find ways around
them. But most importantly, you have to avoid mistakes, defend, and wait
for the opportunity to arise. I don't feel that the UK sides showed enough
concentration or determination to win the games and therefore got beaten.

So. basically, I don't think that all hope of European sides winning the
trophy has gone. Allowing one game as a learning experience is fair
enough. Now the teams have to go back and work on putting some willpower
into their games. The big difference for me is in the mental aspects,
communicating in defence, getting into the right positions and the like.
And importantly, concentrating.

So ,I don't think this is like 82 or 86, and I think there are people paid
good money to play who if they're honest with themselves know that.

That's my rant. I can take the teams I support getting beaten, I can't
take staying up all night to watch them fold.

P.J.

 
 
 

Andy Gregory.

Post by Vibrating Bum-Faced Goa » Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:00:00

: "Little" Andy Gregory was in the papers saying that we're now further
: behind than in 1990 and that European clubs are way out of it in the WCC.
: I assume there's a little kidology in there cos he was also saying that we
: hadn't seen the real Salford. (I stayed up on Sunday morning to get very
: disappointed by Salford's defence and tactics in the game. I think full
: strength Saints or Bradford or Wigan teams would have done the same to
: them on that showing).

...that and then some.

: I don't really agree. Now I can understand that everyone is going to say
: what a nutter, but I don't think that in the games I've seen, Warrington
:  excepted, any of the UK teams have played to their full potential.

Agree entirely.

: It all begs the question why. For a start, it shouldn't be about fitness
: since ESL are all full time now and that was supposed to stop the rot. And
: half the sides have Aussie coaches, and successful ones at that. And I
: don't think there's any less skill in the UK sides. So why did everyone
: make such poor efforts?

It is fitness, but it's mental fitness. We have the players, the skills
and the fitness to be competetive. The trouble is we don't have that
competitveness across the board in the ESL competition. Oldham aren't
going to be much of an obstacle to Wigan for example yet Hunter can beat
Brisbane.

Our players aren't used to giving everything towards mistake-free
football over a period of eighty minutes against a side that's legally in
your face as soon as foot touches ball after the tackle (or as soon as
it's thrown between your legs if you're Auckland). They can cope with
application in a few one off situations but not over the course of a
game. Mistakes arise and the Australian game is built on capitalising on
your opponents mistakes.

: So. basically, I don't think that all hope of European sides winning the
: trophy has gone. Allowing one game as a learning experience is fair
: enough. Now the teams have to go back and work on putting some willpower
: into their games. The big difference for me is in the mental aspects,
: communicating in defence, getting into the right positions and the like.
: And importantly, concentrating.

Absolutely. I am 100% in agreement here. I don't think the British sides
have been under estimating their opponents but I think there's a certain
amount of laxadiasicalness in the manner that some of them have equitted
themselves so far. Now they know what it's like to be hit hard by a
defense that wants to hurt you for 80 minutes solid. Hopefully that
experience can be made to pay in later rounds.

A few sides won't be able to do this but a few have shown in the British
comp' that they can. Saints showed it last year when they were at full
strength. Wigan speak for themselves and Bradford have done some things
in games against the former two to show they are capable of it.

: So ,I don't think this is like 82 or 86, and I think there are people paid
: good money to play who if they're honest with themselves know that.

Indeed so. They aren't that much better than us. For British sides to say
that would be a cop out. For Van de Verlde to say it is acceptable. He's
been doing his woe is me act since he decided to take on a jpb he didn't
want.

--
Chris Russell           | Bradford Bulls - Wembley 1997
Electronic Imaging Unit |
University of Bradford  | Tough on St.Helens
TEL: +44 1274 385463    | Tough on the causes of St.Helens.

 
 
 

Andy Gregory.

Post by Paul McNal » Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
>I felt like, Broncos excepted here, half the sides just accepted defeat
>too early. We all know Aussie defences are hard. But they are not
>unbreakable. If you can't power through them, you have to find ways around
>them. But most importantly, you have to avoid mistakes, defend, and wait
>for the opportunity to arise. I don't feel that the UK sides showed enough
>concentration or determination to win the games and therefore got beaten.

>So. basically, I don't think that all hope of European sides winning the
>trophy has gone. Allowing one game as a learning experience is fair
>enough. Now the teams have to go back and work on putting some willpower
>into their games. The big difference for me is in the mental aspects,
>communicating in defence, getting into the right positions and the like.
>And importantly, concentrating.
>That's my rant. I can take the teams I support getting beaten, I can't
>take staying up all night to watch them fold.

>P.J.

Believe me, none was more gutted than me. I thought at 16-8, although
we hadn't played well we were seeming to grow a little in confidence.
Then Mamando scored and that was it. Right, can't be bothered anymore.

I think if you look though, all the teams that have travelled
including Cronulla & Wigan and to a lesser extent Auckland have all
packed in the last 20 mins...

Salford's lack of effort is inexcusable but when great sides like
Cronulla start to struggle it makes ya wonder about the travel.

I too feel that a lot of the sides went out there feeling they were
gonna be beaten as as soon as it started to happen they thought, looks
like we were right, why are we bothering.

Adelaide certainly aren't the best side we've played this year but are
the only side to stick 50 in. You work it out.

Paul

 
 
 

Andy Gregory.

Post by Paul McNal » Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>It is fitness, but it's mental fitness. We have the players, the skills
>and the fitness to be competetive. The trouble is we don't have that
>competitveness across the board in the ESL competition. Oldham aren't
>going to be much of an obstacle to Wigan for example yet Hunter can beat
>Brisbane.

Maybe because we aren't franchised with players allocated???

You're in favour of franchising aren't you Chris?

Me too.

I think the skills are there for the most part we just need to add the
intensity and above all the professionalism to our structures..

I exclude Bradford because they're run like a model franchise for me.
the transformation from Northern to Bull has been like its been
handled by God it's been done so well.

But they're the only one.

One noticeable fact today. I think Canterbury treated Wigan with
respect because they;re Wigan while the rest of our teams (quite
rightly as it's turned out in Rnd one) have been treated with dsdain.

Paul

 
 
 

Andy Gregory.

Post by PIEMA » Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

> "Little" Andy Gregory was in the papers saying that we're now further
> behind than in 1990 and that European clubs are way out of it in the WCC.
> I assume there's a little kidology in there cos he was also saying that
we
> hadn't seen the real Salford. (I stayed up on Sunday morning to get very
> disappointed by Salford's defence and tactics in the game. I think full
> strength Saints or Bradford or Wigan teams would have done the same to
> them on that showing).

SNIPPED
 Surely if Gregthinks we are so far behind good job though he has done at
Salford , he his partly responsible for the way his team plays. IMO they
were not that far behind Adelaide, except late on when the fatigue factor &
travelling caught up.
Writing this after Wigans win I don't think we are that far behind the
Aussies. Its obvious some of the lower sides are slower but in time & with
experience will come good, maybe not this year but who knows. So come on
Cas, Blue Sox & wire show the Aussies what ESL is about

--
PIEMAN            
SAY NO TO TESCO

http://freespace.***.net/evans.g/pieman
"A man without a woman, is like a neck without a pain"

 
 
 

Andy Gregory.

Post by Vibrating Bum-Faced Goa » Wed, 11 Jun 1997 04:00:00


: >It is fitness, but it's mental fitness. We have the players, the skills
: >and the fitness to be competetive. The trouble is we don't have that
: >competitveness across the board in the ESL competition. Oldham aren't
: >going to be much of an obstacle to Wigan for example yet Hunter can beat
: >Brisbane.

: Maybe because we aren't franchised with players allocated???

: You're in favour of franchising aren't you Chris?

Certainly am, said as much since about '94.

: I exclude Bradford because they're run like a model franchise for me.
: the transformation from Northern to Bull has been like its been
: handled by God it's been done so well.

: But they're the only one.

Clubs seem to coming down into two camps here, 1) Those that want to
learn from what Bradford have/are doing and 2) Those that think Bradford
are just a bunch of big heads and are waiting for them to fall.

The trouble is, before last season all clubs top men were taken on a tour
of Californian sports teams of various descriptions to see how it's done,
get ideas, etc. Everyone has had the same opportunities and everyone has
had the same money from Murdoch to do it with.

: One noticeable fact today. I think Canterbury treated Wigan with
: respect because they;re Wigan while the rest of our teams (quite
: rightly as it's turned out in Rnd one) have been treated with dsdain.

I only saw the second half and Canterbury looked knackered to me. Penrith
did last night just before half time as well. I don't think the two teams
Penrith have yet to play can do it but offloading in the tackle at pace
certainly catches them out. Kepp the ball under control and off load
where plausible to your support and the game looked wrapped up.

--
Chris Russell           | Bradford Bulls - Wembley 1997
Electronic Imaging Unit |
University of Bradford  | Tough on St.Helens
TEL: +44 1274 385463    | Tough on the causes of St.Helens.

 
 
 

Andy Gregory.

Post by Mr P Halliwel » Wed, 11 Jun 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
> One noticeable fact today. I think Canterbury treated Wigan with
> respect because they;re Wigan while the rest of our teams (quite
> rightly as it's turned out in Rnd one) have been treated with dsdain.
> Paul

And Canterbury not taking the two points early in the game did not show
respect.  Huh, they went for the 6 because they did not respect Wigan.
And they paid the price.  And that 2nd Canterbury try was never
grounded.  They must have paid the video ref.

Still Wigan won and that's what counts.

--

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/phalliwell/  |\_/^~^~^~^\_/|
Wigan Warriors RLFC                        \__|\0\ /0/|__/
But still Wigan RLFC to me                    \   I   /
                                               \ -=- /
                                                ^^^^^

 
 
 

Andy Gregory.

Post by Antonioni P » Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
> Date: 10 Jun 1997 08:15:37 GMT

> Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby.league
> Subject: Re: Andy Gregory.



> : Bum-Faced Goats) wrote
> : Maybe because we aren't franchised with players allocated???

> : You're in favour of franchising aren't you Chris?

> Certainly am, said as much since about '94.

Steady on about franchising. If you go for it you have to tie franchises
to long term agreements, otherwise they'll move about as in the U.S.
However, if you do that, the risk falls on the franchisee, and the
franchises might not be economic. It creates as many problems as it
solves.

P.J.

 
 
 

Andy Gregory.

Post by Vibrating Bum-Faced Goa » Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:00:00


: > Date: 10 Jun 1997 08:15:37 GMT

: > Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby.league
: > Subject: Re: Andy Gregory.
: >


: > : Bum-Faced Goats) wrote
: > : Maybe because we aren't franchised with players allocated???
: >
: > : You're in favour of franchising aren't you Chris?
: >
: > Certainly am, said as much since about '94.

: Steady on about franchising. If you go for it you have to tie franchises
: to long term agreements, otherwise they'll move about as in the U.S.
: However, if you do that, the risk falls on the franchisee, and the
: franchises might not be economic. It creates as many problems as it
: solves.

I advocated just such a thing fairly recently. You might be able to get
it from Deja News with something like this in the search box:


--
Chris Russell           | Bradford Bulls - Wembley 1997
Electronic Imaging Unit |
University of Bradford  | Tough on St.Helens
TEL: +44 1274 385463    | Tough on the causes of St.Helens.

 
 
 

Andy Gregory.

Post by Antonioni P » Sat, 14 Jun 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 16:54:24 GMT

> Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby.league
> Subject: Re: Andy Gregory.

> Believe me, none was more gutted than me. I thought at 16-8, although
> we hadn't played well we were seeming to grow a little in confidence.
> Then Mamando scored and that was it. Right, can't be bothered anymore.

> I think if you look though, all the teams that have travelled
> including Cronulla & Wigan and to a lesser extent Auckland have all
> packed in the last 20 mins...

> Salford's lack of effort is inexcusable but when great sides like
> Cronulla start to struggle it makes ya wonder about the travel.

> I too feel that a lot of the sides went out there feeling they were
> gonna be beaten as as soon as it started to happen they thought, looks
> like we were right, why are we bothering.

> Adelaide certainly aren't the best side we've played this year but are
> the only side to stick 50 in. You work it out.

> Paul

>Glad someone agrees. There's no disgrace in being outfought, but lots in

being out thought. I'm afraid that for that reason, I've done a few
virtual Saints Sulks last weekend, and I don't fancy doing it this week.

Sorry to say, that what I'd always thought about Wigan was that whenever
they played the had the view that "you are not going to walk over us,
whatever", and regularly enough they went and won, sometimes even when the
odds were against us. They showed no mercy in victory and no thought of
defeat. That above all else is why they were so successful.

That's the big lesson, and no British club needed to go to Aus to learn
it.

P.J.