What is happening to RL ?

What is happening to RL ?

Post by Chris Dickinso » Thu, 05 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Where has the money gone ?

Why do they play loud music after every try and goal ?

Why is RL never mentioned on Radio 5 ?

Who really gives a toss about RU clubs ?

How could anybody in the game ever ever ever want to see old clubs die
or worse still be merged with longstanding rivals.

Why is Superleague becoming like American football in it's organisation
and marketing ?

When I go to watch RL I want to see ***, sweat and tears not
cheerleaders. I want to see teams get into the top flight on merit, not
just because SKY (Rupert 'arsehole' Murdoch) want them there.

--
Chris***inson

 
 
 

What is happening to RL ?

Post by Paul Matthe » Sat, 07 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>Where has the money gone ?

Players and agents bank accounts.
Quote:
>Why do they play loud music after every try and goal ?

To try and make it more popular with occasional spectators, and try to
encourage more people to come.

Quote:
>Why is RL never mentioned on Radio 5 ?

Did anyone tell R5 there were any games on?

Quote:
>Who really gives a toss about RU clubs ?

We have to - if we ignore them they will sign our better players.

Quote:
>How could anybody in the game ever ever ever want to see old clubs die
>or worse still be merged with longstanding rivals.

Nobody really wants to see any clubs die, but i we are to really compete for
spectators, we need to eaise the profile of the game. we will never get a crowd
of 20,000 between two towns whose total population is less than that. the game
needs to spread to survive. if it does not grow, it will contract, and that
will also mean a loss of clubs.

Quote:
>Why is Superleague becoming like American football in it's organisation
>and marketing ?

because it needs to to get the crowds it needs to survive.

Quote:
>When I go to watch RL I want to see ***, sweat and tears not
>cheerleaders. I want to see teams get into the top flight on merit, not
>just because SKY (Rupert 'arsehole' Murdoch) want them there.

I agree with the merit bit, but if what you want it a plain, simple game, have
you considered supporting you local amateur club? I am not familiar with the
grass roots level in RL, but in RU, once a club gets to know your face, you may
get roped in to run touch!
--
Paul Matthews                          
http://SportToday.org/


 
 
 

What is happening to RL ?

Post by WiganRLf » Sat, 07 Mar 1998 04:00:00

On Wed, 4 Mar 1998 22:47:35 +0000, Chris***inson

Quote:

>How could anybody in the game ever ever ever want to see old clubs die

No one wants to see old clubs die, but they do simply because they go bankrupt
e.g Oldham.  It's not the first time its happened in the history of RL and it
won't be the last.

Quote:
>or worse still be merged with longstanding rivals.

Can't say I would like the idea of my team merging but if the only other
alternative was to go bust or drop down a league (or even go amateur) then what
do you do?

It's all very well disliking these things but just stating opposition to them
is not going to solve the problems RL has that are leading to these things
happening.  

Quote:

>Why is Superleague becoming like American football in it's organisation
>and marketing ?

If only it were.  Then we would not have clubs going bust.

Quote:
>When I go to watch RL I want to see ***, sweat and tears not
>cheerleaders.

Well from what I have seen so far this season the quality of RL being played by
the SL clubs is top drawer.  Ignore the cheerleaders and watch the action.

Quote:
> I want to see teams get into the top flight on merit

Oh, I give up.  I was going to reply to this explaining why, although we might
like this to be the way of things (and I used to think the same), it can't be
just now and may never be again.

But its been done to death and if you can't see why this is so, given the major
changes made to the sport now it is truly professional then I have not got the
time to explain.

Dave
--
Wigan RLFC - getting back to being Simply the best -

(remove the letter t from clarat if replying via email)

 
 
 

What is happening to RL ?

Post by John Drak » Sat, 07 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>Where has the money gone ?

Ask the clubs, they've spent it.

Quote:

>Why do they play loud music after every try and goal ?

Why not? What harm does it do? The kids like it, and they are the next
generation of RL fans.

Quote:

>Why is RL never mentioned on Radio 5 ?

They covered SL pretty well last season IMO. But maybe they give RL less
coverage than they might because they are a *national* radio station and all
the professional RL clubs in Britain, with one exception, are in one small
part of the north of England.

Quote:

>Who really gives a toss about RU clubs ?

The people who bankroll them and the people who watch them, presumably.
What's your point?

Quote:

>How could anybody in the game ever ever ever want to see old clubs die
>or worse still be merged with longstanding rivals.

Things change. You can't preserve RL in aspic. Whatever did happen to
Broughton Rangers...?

Quote:

>Why is Superleague becoming like American football in it's organisation
>and marketing ?

Are you taking the piss? It's more like a badly run whelk stall that
American Football. If only it were like the latter...if only !

Quote:

>When I go to watch RL I want to see ***, sweat and tears not
>cheerleaders.

It's possible to have both. Ever considered that what you want might not be
what everyone else wants...?

Quote:
>I want to see teams get into the top flight on merit, not
>just because SKY (Rupert 'arsehole' Murdoch) want them >there.

Where do you think RL would be now without the the "arsehole" and his money,
which has prevented numerous of your beloved "old clubs" going bust since
1995? Murdoch's money has effectively prevented rationalisation of RL,
rather than contributing to it, by providing a financial lifeline to all
clubs, regardless of merit.

John
--
Rugby League - The Greatest Game on the Web
http://SportToday.org/
Remove "nospam" from e-mail address to reply

 
 
 

What is happening to RL ?

Post by a cocteau twi » Sun, 08 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Well I guess that Paul typifies the type of "new" supporter being attracted
to RL.  He claims in his message that he has no idea of amateur RL but knows
about amateur RU.  (there has to be a distinction made, though for several
years now RU has NOT been an amateur sport.  My local RU club have had some
kind of professionalism in their ranks for years and they aren't even a
"League 1" side.

Occasional spectators are OK, but RL isn't soccer and never will be.  What
do occasional supporters put back into the game except gate money and a
replica shirt every two years?  RL cannot exist in a professional vacuum,
despite Lindsays best efforts, because most players still come from ARL at
some time in their development.  It is an obvious fact that we cannot
continue for ever on teams made up of has been Australians!  It seems to me
that RL must do nothing to antagonise the very people who every week keep
the sport alive at whatever level.

I would be very careful about putting too much faith into summer rugby and
the idea that they will sign all our best players.  For one thing RU's new
found professionalism is built on very shallow foundations and is
unsustainable in its present form.  The professionalism of under the table
payments which has existed for decades was not enough to lure our best
players and will not be in the future.

The whole idea of summer rugby and expansion is built on the premise that
the Murdoch millions will continue to roll in.  This is patently not going
to happen, especially when Murdoch realises in years to come, that RL is no
more of a national game with all his money than it was without it.  RL
continues to fail miserably in non traditional areas despite none of them
ever playing on a level playing field in terms of the rules set out for
them.  Sheffield Seagulls and London have survived, but not without a
ridiculous amount of money being pumped in and even under those
circumstances the Seagulls struggle to get a decent following in one of the
biggest, most sport mad cities in the country.  Added to which, 14 years
down the line and there is still NOT a thriving amateur game in the
Sheffield area.

Can anyone seriously believe that RL would succeed in Southampton?  Or for
that matter Newcastle?  People connect Newcy with a working class area but
theres way more to it than that.  Who remembers Mansfield Marksman?  Not
many of you, I bet.  I agree, crowds of 500 in Batley on a frozen cold day
in January are not exactly good for the image of the sport but neither is
Paris playing in a huge stadium in front of 17000 spectators none of whom
have paid to get in.  The real impact of "Super League" in Paris could be
seen from that last few home games.  Hahahaha.

Rugby League continues to survive in "traditional" areas despite economics
because it is a game that people are born to.  It is in their ***.  RL
cannot be transplanted into an area successfully, and as soon as Murdoch
realises that we are all screwed......

Quote:


>>Where has the money gone ?

>Players and agents bank accounts.
>>Why do they play loud music after every try and goal ?

>To try and make it more popular with occasional spectators, and try to
>encourage more people to come.

>>Why is RL never mentioned on Radio 5 ?

>Did anyone tell R5 there were any games on?

>>Who really gives a toss about RU clubs ?

>We have to - if we ignore them they will sign our better players.

>>How could anybody in the game ever ever ever want to see old clubs die
>>or worse still be merged with longstanding rivals.

>Nobody really wants to see any clubs die, but i we are to really compete
for
>spectators, we need to eaise the profile of the game. we will never get a
crowd
>of 20,000 between two towns whose total population is less than that. the
game
>needs to spread to survive. if it does not grow, it will contract, and that
>will also mean a loss of clubs.

>>Why is Superleague becoming like American football in it's organisation
>>and marketing ?

>because it needs to to get the crowds it needs to survive.

>>When I go to watch RL I want to see ***, sweat and tears not
>>cheerleaders. I want to see teams get into the top flight on merit, not
>>just because SKY (Rupert 'arsehole' Murdoch) want them there.
>I agree with the merit bit, but if what you want it a plain, simple game,
have
>you considered supporting you local amateur club? I am not familiar with
the
>grass roots level in RL, but in RU, once a club gets to know your face, you
may
>get roped in to run touch!
>--
>Paul Matthews
>http://SportToday.org/


 
 
 

What is happening to RL ?

Post by John Drak » Sun, 08 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>Well I guess that Paul typifies the type of "new" supporter being attracted
>to RL.

Careful. It can be dangerous to make such sweeping assumptions about people
you don't know.
Quote:
>He claims in his message that he has no idea of amateur RL >but knows
>about amateur RU.  (there has to be a distinction made, though for several
>years now RU has NOT been an amateur sport.  My local RU club have had some
>kind of professionalism in their ranks for years and they aren't even a
>"League 1" side.

>Occasional spectators are OK, but RL isn't soccer and never will be.  What
>do occasional supporters put back into the game except gate money and a
>replica shirt every two years?

Well even that's better than them not being there at all, surely?

Quote:
>RL cannot exist in a professional vacuum,
>despite Lindsays best efforts, because most players still come from ARL at
>some time in their development.  It is an obvious fact that we cannot
>continue for ever on teams made up of has been Australians!  It seems to me
>that RL must do nothing to antagonise the very people who every week keep
>the sport alive at whatever level.

But neither can the game just stand still. The aim must surely be to attract
what you refer to as occasional spectators into the game to start with, and
then turn them into permanent supporters. No one is "born" a rugby league
fan, and the game cannot, IMO, simply rely on existing levels of support to
sustain it as you appear to be suggesting. RL has to attract new fans and
players all the time, and when they do turn up, all RL people should welcome
them to the game instead of sneering at their apparent lack of knowledge
about the finer points.

True enough, the amateur game is the backbone of RL, but it is possible to
modernise things and retain their support and involvement at the same time.
Bradford Bulls, for example, have established a genuine partnership scheme
for amateur clubs in their area (The Bulls Connection - ring 01274 733899
for details), whereas in the good old bad old days so many people love to
hark back to, professional clubs would do as little as they could to support
the amateurs.

Quote:

>I would be very careful about putting too much faith into summer rugby and
>the idea that they will sign all our best players.  For one thing RU's new
>found professionalism is built on very shallow foundations and is
>unsustainable in its present form.  The professionalism of under the table
>payments which has existed for decades was not enough to lure our best
>players and will not be in the future.

Kid yourself if you want to. The old rules of shamateurism prevented RL
players going to RU as much as it prevented traffic the other way. Now both
sports are openly professional, it is open season. RL has to make itself
more attractive to a much wider audience, not only to generate income to pay
and retain players, but to attract high profile sponsorship and media
coverage. If RL is content to remain geographically restricted, then why
should major companies want to spend their sponsorship money advertising to
a minority audience, and why should national media want to take an interest
in a regional sport?

Quote:

>The whole idea of summer rugby and expansion is built on the premise that
>the Murdoch millions will continue to roll in.  This is patently not going
>to happen, especially when Murdoch realises in years to come, that RL is no
>more of a national game with all his money than it was without it.

The decision to switch to summer was being debated before the Murdoch backed
SL was even thought of.

Quote:
>RL
>continues to fail miserably in non traditional areas despite none of them
>ever playing on a level playing field in terms of the rules set out for
>them.  Sheffield Seagulls and London have survived, but not without a
>ridiculous amount of money being pumped in and even under those
>circumstances the Seagulls struggle to get a decent following in one of the
>biggest, most sport mad cities in the country.  Added to which, 14 years
>down the line and there is still NOT a thriving amateur game in the
>Sheffield area.

At the risk of sounding pedantic, if you can't even get the club's name
right (Seagulls?) I'm not sure I'll
take your word for how well the amateur game is doing in Sheffield. I'm
pretty sure there is more of a grass roots interest in RL in Sheffield now
than there was *before* the EAGLES club was formed. That's progress. And as
for the crowds, they get more than many RL clubs who have been around a lot
longer and have a stronger amateur base, so what does that say about the
more "traditional" RL clubs?

As for RL failing in non traditional areas, I suppose its failed in London
to such an extent that Richard Branson now wants to be involved and, like
Sheffield, their crowds are bigger than many traditional RL clubs. Some
failure!

Quote:

>Can anyone seriously believe that RL would succeed in Southampton?  Or for
>that matter Newcastle?

Yep. Why not?

Quote:
>People connect Newcy with a working class area but
>theres way more to it than that.  Who remembers Mansfield Marksman?  Not
>many of you, I bet.

They had a ***team, no money, no real backing from the RFL and played in
the second division. Expansion on those terms will inevitably fail. Doesn't
mean that people in those areas have wrong shaped brains or something, and
that they can't possibly ever take to RL because its not in their genes.

Quote:
> I agree, crowds of 500 in Batley on a frozen cold day
>in January are not exactly good for the image of the sport but neither is
>Paris playing in a huge stadium in front of 17000 spectators none of whom
>have paid to get in.

Oh come on, talk sense please!! You are seriously suggesting that the sight
of 17,000 people going bananas over a game of RL played in a fantastic state
of the art stadium in Paris is a bad thing?

Quote:
> The real impact of "Super League" in Paris could be
>seen from that last few home games.  Hahahaha.

You mean when PSG beat Oldham at the Charlety Stadium in front of a crowd of
6,714 in their final home game, and ended the season as SL's fifth best
supported club on average? Maybe you should check a few facts like this
before you make yourself look ridiculous.

Quote:

>Rugby League continues to survive in "traditional" areas despite economics
>because it is a game that people are born to.  It is in their ***.  RL
>cannot be transplanted into an area successfully, and as soon as Murdoch
>realises that we are all screwed......

RL will be screwed if attitudes like yours prevail. You make
unsubstantiated statements and pass them off as fact because it suits your
own tunnel vision outlook on RL to do so. RL as a sport didn't even exist
until 1895. If people have to be "born" into the game and cannot possibly be
introduced to it in other areas by other means, then how the hell is it more
popular in Australia right now than it is in its birthplace of the north of
England? How did it become the national sport of Papua New Guinea? How did
the game manage a 10 nation World Cup in 1995? And here in England, how come
there is a thriving amateur scene in places like Gateshead and Hemel
Hempstead, neither of which are in Lancashire or Yorkshire, according to my
map book?

Face it, you don't have to be born near the M62 to be able to understand and
love Rugby League. It doesn't belong exclusively to one group of people.
It's a game for anybody and everybody.

John
Rugby League - The Greatest Game on the Web
http://SportToday.org/