Super League, time for change

Super League, time for change

Post by Craig McDermo » Sun, 05 Nov 1995 04:00:00


What the going to be the difference between the stones bitter champioship
and the super league?  Nothing, it's just going to be the same load of
bollocks every year!!  Does the RL not realise it's time for change?  I
know it will upset alot of people but we have got to change the teams to
big city names instead of Widnes, Castleford, Salford, etc., it's the
difference between making league really big or just get blown away by
union!!  Why not build on the success of the world cup, just image the
interest generated from having teams like:

Manchester
London
Cardiff
Birmingham????
Newcastle
Wigan
Leeds
Warrington
Sheffield
Bradford

and any other big city teams you can think of!  It's the only way forward,
the sooner the better!!

Craig
Manchester

 
 
 

Super League, time for change

Post by d.m.fis.. » Mon, 06 Nov 1995 04:00:00


Quote:
>What the going to be the difference between the stones bitter champioship
>and the super league?  Nothing, it's just going to be the same load of
>bollocks every year!!  Does the RL not realise it's time for change?  I
>know it will upset alot of people but we have got to change the teams to
>big city names instead of Widnes, Castleford, Salford, etc., it's the
>difference between making league really big or just get blown away by
>union!!  Why not build on the success of the world cup, just image the
>interest generated from having teams like:

>Manchester
>London
>Cardiff
>Birmingham????
>Newcastle
>Wigan
>Leeds
>Warrington
>Sheffield
>Bradford

>and any other big city teams you can think of!  It's the only way forward,
>the sooner the better!!

Too right!

In the final analysis, now that there is genuine commercial competition
from RU, RL will wither on the vine unless it can expand quickly. It is
true that existing RL supporters will not easilly drift into the RU camp,
but that is not where the real threat comes from.

RU already has four massive advantages when it comes to capturing the
real money (tellydosh):
a) An entrenched position in the UK and international media
b) A national image, capable of mobilising sportive nationalism
c) A well-established base for international club and country competion
d) A residual fund of articulate and monied voluntary support

With those advantages, I'm pretty sure that Newcastle will not be the only
attempt to build a commercial club in the big urban centres of the North
of England. Already, (see today's Observer), we see plans for Orrell to exploit
the *** position of Rugby in the Wigan area. How long will it be before
the Leeds RU club find themselves one or two John Halls?

My point here, is not that local RU clubs will suddenly rob Northern League
clubs of their players and supporters, but that they may gradually eclipse them
in terms of wider local popular and media attention. In such circumstances,
youngsters thinking of alternatives to Football (Soccer) are more likely to turn
first to the 15 man game. Just as importantly, many of the local sponsors
who provide the financial saftey-net for many RL clubs, will see RU as a
better bet for securing publicity and an up-market image.

It needn't go this way, but it will, if troglodyte defenders of village identities
prevent RL from expanding in the bigger cities. This doesn't mean that I am
suggesting a resurrection of Lindsay's merger plan, but it does mean that
the smaller clubs accepting reality, i.e. they are SMALL clubs and should not
expect to get the same power, attention, and cash as the Big-city clubs
with whom the future lies.

Personally, I were a Leeds or Wigan* (add your alternative) director I would
be approaching the local RU club with a proposal for a COMMERCIAL merger,
like that envisaged in  Hall's 'Sporting Club Newcastle'. Now that the two
codes will be playing at opposite ends of the year, there is every reason to
consider sharing all manner of facilities (grounds, training, promotional
infrastructure, ... even some players!), to exploit the once in a life-time
opportunity for both codes to escape their respective ghettos.

There would, of course, be problems with the relative distribution of
resources, but clubs manage to overcome them in all sorts of sports, in
virtually all non-commonwealth countries.

If we remember that RU is currently as absent from big-city attention
(in the UK), as is RL, both codes could have much to gain by co-operating.
As far as I'm aware there is no BIG rugby club, of either code, in major
cities like Glasgow, Manchester (Salford & Swinton simply don't enter most
mancunians heads), Birmigham, Nottingham and Liverpool. Isn't it about time
there was?

Dave Fisher
Bristol
(Even here the two lower division soccer clubs dwarf the League One
RU side)

P.S. Appologies for the UK focus, but I simply don't know enough about
the Souther Hemisphere etc to pass informed comment

 
 
 

Super League, time for change

Post by d.m.fis.. » Wed, 08 Nov 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

>>In the final analysis, now that there is genuine commercial competition
>>from RU, RL will wither on the vine unless it can expand quickly. It is
>>true that existing RL supporters will not easilly drift into the RU camp,
>>but that is not where the real threat comes from.

>>RU already has four massive advantages when it comes to capturing the
>>real money (tellydosh):
>>a) An entrenched position in the UK and international media
>>b) A national image, capable of mobilising sportive nationalism
>>c) A well-established base for international club and country competion
>>d) A residual fund of articulate and monied voluntary support

>>With those advantages, I'm pretty sure that Newcastle will not be the only
>>attempt to build a commercial club in the big urban centres of the North
>>of England. Already, (see today's Observer), we see plans for Orrell to exploit
>>the *** position of Rugby in the Wigan area. How long will it be before
>>the Leeds RU club find themselves one or two John Halls?

>>My point here, is not that local RU clubs will suddenly rob Northern League
>>clubs of their players and supporters, but that they may gradually eclipse them
>>in terms of wider local popular and media attention. In such circumstances,
>>youngsters thinking of alternatives to Football (Soccer) are more likely to turn
>>first to the 15 man game. Just as importantly, many of the local sponsors
>>who provide the financial saftey-net for many RL clubs, will see RU as a
>>better bet for securing publicity and an up-market image.

>>Personally, I were a Leeds or Wigan* (add your alternative) director I would
>>be approaching the local RU club with a proposal for a COMMERCIAL merger,
>>like that envisaged in  Hall's 'Sporting Club Newcastle'. Now that the two
>>codes will be playing at opposite ends of the year, there is every reason to
>>consider sharing all manner of facilities (grounds, training, promotional
>>infrastructure, ... even some players!), to exploit the once in a life-time
>>opportunity for both codes to escape their respective ghettos.

>>Dave Fisher
>>Bristol
>However, when the Leeds RU ground is demolished to make way for a super-
>market, it is rumoured that the Union team will move into the more palatial
>surroundings of Headingley, once the move to Summer is in effect. As for
>Bramley then, well who knows? I do not know the details of this arrangement,
>but I suppose it might well include training facilities and it would be
>practical for them to move their admin. base there aswell. However, the idea
>of sharing players seems highly unlikely, given that Leeds RL have opposed
>any of their players playing off season football in Australia recently, so I
>would imagine that the same would apply to them playing third division Union.

Just  to make  things clear. I never expected, or suggested, that top flight
League players should play 12 months of Rugby. I was merely alluding to
a number of  serious possibilities:
a) for older players who can no longer perform meet the  fitness requirements
of first grade RL (Shaun Edwards has suggested he could go on to  40 in RU)
b) for previously injured players who have missed a significant part of the
super league season.
c) for 2nd string players who feel they are not getting enough match practice
(I'm most dubious bout this possibility)

Quote:
>In Wigan, the RL club has recently invested some #250,000 in upgrading the
>local Union sides ground, so that the  RL team can train and the Academy
>team can play there, and also some of the club's admin. base has been moved.
>In return the RU club will be able to play some big games at Central Park.
>The only problem here is that, as at Headingley, the Union crowds will be
>somewhat lost in a 30,000-capacity stadium.

Nevertheless, it looks like a mutually beneficial arrangement to me.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
>However I think that League has little to fear from Union, in terms of being
>eclipsed by it, in the game's heartlands. From what I have seen of Leeds RU's
>promotion and ambition, it seems to be somewhat amateurish, to say the least.
>Also, although League may lack exposure in the national media, it is very well
>served by the local media, and potential fans, who buy, say the "Yorkshire
>Evening Post" in the Leeds area, will find as much League in there as soccer,
>and BBC Radio Leeds serves the game well, too (and that is to say nothing of
>Radio Headingley, "the all-action Leeds Rugby League Radio Station"). It
>would have to be a very optimistic Union fan that thinks all this can be
>overcome, even with a little bit of money. You must take into account that clubs
>like Leeds RL already have very rich benefactors (the Superleague money alone
>would not pay the #15m needed to rebuild Headingley's rugby stadium), and
>should be able to find some more if the need arose. Wigan are in a different
>situation, but they could always call upon the likes of Dave Whelan (who owns
>JJB Sports), if they are ever strapped for cash. You pose the question of
>how long it will be before Leeds RU club finds a rich backer. The answer must
>be, a very long time! I cannot see it happening. Just one look at what their
>aims and ambitions are, would put most prospective John Halls off.
>Sharing facilities is all well and good, but Union will never take
>over League's *** in the North.

As a Leeds lad, I'm aware of Leeds RLFC's strong local presence, but feel
it would be a serious mistake to overestimate its long-term significance:
a) because, the strong northern base has always been the major factor
undermining a CONSISTENT long-term strategy for expansion.
b) because, even in areas like Leeds, RL is still a minority interest. (e.g.
in my 6 years at a north Leeds Comprehensive I never once succeeded in
persuading my schoolfriends to go to Headingley instead of Elland Rd)
c) because, the cultural life of big cities almost invariably has a national
or international focus (I suspect I might have had more success in persuading
my schoolfriends if Leeds RL had been playing 'Real Madrid' etc, rather
than the likes of Cas, Feth, and Wakefield).
d) because, what many existing fans think of as RL's social & cultural virtues
(self-discipline, unsegregated fans, family atmosphere etc), are often  regarded
as somewhat 'old-fashioned' by young people fed on a diet of fast-action
TV/video/computer orientated entertainment.

RL may be a brilliant, fast-action, product on the field, but a wider audience
is not going to appreciate that until they actually take the chance to see it.
The existing national media coverage doesn't help, and it isn't going to,
until TV executives see the danger of missing out on a new wave of
popular entertainment. RU, and a number of other minority sports, get TV
coverage because they appeal to TV producers' own interests directly. RL
is unlikely to ever have this advantage ... it will have to offer more overt
inducements, i.e. audience share and advertising opportunities.

In my experience, the best way of winning converts to RL is to take them
to a live game  ... almost invariably people are amazed by the pace, skill,
and physical confrontation. They simply don't pick that up from occasional
glimses on TV.

Dave

 
 
 

Super League, time for change

Post by Keyworth Institu » Wed, 08 Nov 1995 04:00:00

: In Wigan, the RL club has recently invested some #250,000 in upgrading the
: local Union sides ground, so that the  RL team can train and the Academy
: team can play there, and also some of the club's admin. base has been moved.
: In return the RU club will be able to play some big games at Central Park.

This was rediculous if you ask me. Why couldn't they invest it in a local
RL club who want to play RL and would love to have links with Wigan if
given the chance. Wigan St. Patricks and Wigan St. Judes spring to mind.
Just think what that sort of money could do - better pitch, covered terracing,
good training facilities.... and then Wigan would further their production
line of talent coming write up through the junior ranks in the way they
want them. There is either a hidden adgenda or it just goes to show the
guld between BARLA/RFL and the professional clubs and some of their local
clubs.

I've just read that Brian Smith has just had lots of local clubs in to
work out ways to forge links between the Bulls and local talent. Surely
this is the way forward. Why can't other clubs be as forward looking?

: The only problem here is that, as at Headingley, the Union crowds will be
: somewhat lost in a 30,000-capacity stadium.

Indeed.

: should be able to find some more if the need arose. Wigan are in a different
: situation, but they could always call upon the likes of Dave Whelan (who owns
: JJB Sports),

Ahhemm.... I don't think so - Whelan wanted to take over Wigan and the
board didn't want to let him. They don't get on anymore. Whelan resigned
as honourary president (or somethng) when Uncle Mo went on to pastures new.
The Jack Robinson/Dave Whelan fued is in the way of Wigan town getting a
decent sports stadium a la McAlpine to share between Wigan/Latics/Orrell.

: Matthew Murtland,
: Newcastle.

Andrew.
--
http://dream1.leeds.ac.uk/~andrew/

 
 
 

Super League, time for change

Post by Richard Gosn » Sun, 12 Nov 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

> I know it will upset alot of people but we have got to change the teams to
>big city names instead of Widnes, Castleford, Salford, etc., it's the
>difference between making league really big or just get blown away by
>union!!  Why not build on the success of the world cup, just image the
>interest generated from having teams like:

>Manchester
>London
>Cardiff
>Birmingham????
>Newcastle
>Wigan
>Leeds
>Warrington
>Sheffield
>Bradford

>and any other big city teams you can think of!  It's the only way forward,
>the sooner the better!!

>Craig
>Manchester

Hmmm, interesting that you look upon Wigan and Warrington as "big
cities". I don't dispute their inclusion in a "Super League" as they are
obviously fine teams, as are Castleford, St Helens, Halifax etc.. The
teams selected to join the Super League were selected on their abilities
( in the majority of cases ). If you include teams simply on their
geographical locations in an attempt to make the game nationwide, then
you risk making the game much less of a spectacle.

If there are people in Cardiff, Birmingham and Newcastle who want to
have first class Rugby League in their cities then they have to earn the
right to be included, by proving that they can compete at the highest
level.

I can think of a few cities I would include, how about Hull, Liverpool,
Nottingham, Leicester, Bristol. All bigger cities than Wigan, so perhaps
we should think about dropping Wigan ? Of course, this won't happen
because they are too good. But, you can't pick some teams on their
abilities and others on their locations, all teams included have to be
able to compete. Which is why, IMHO, Castleford, Saints and Halifax
MUST be included until there are better teams to replace them.

Interesting idea you have though. You just picked a bad example by
naming Castleford as a team to drop. Being a Cas fan I was amazed that
after finishing 3rd in the league last year, they were not automatically
included in SL. Maybe because they don't have a big name or a big ground
or a big enough following for some peoples plans for RL.

I agree that RL must change but, I don't think real RL supporters will
go over to RU. However, more will stop following the sport if the future
is not thought about very carefully.

Regards,

--
Richard Gosney
Sheffield, UK

 
 
 

Super League, time for change

Post by Brendan John Connoll » Tue, 14 Nov 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

>Also, although League may lack exposure in the national media, it is very well
>served by the local media, and potential fans, who buy, say the "Yorkshire
>Evening Post" in the Leeds area, will find as much League in there as soccer,
>and BBC Radio Leeds serves the game well, too (and that is to say nothing of
>Radio Headingley, "the all-action Leeds Rugby League Radio Station").

Well done in exposing what is wrong with Rugby League it simply does not get enough
media coverage especially in the south of England. When I look at the papers on a
Monday morning looking for reports on League they are usually in the coner under the
Union results. Take last Monday for instance I looked in most papers to see if any
had a report on the Castleford London Broncos game and only a couple of papers had
one or two lines about the game ie Leo Dynevor scored three tries in Londons 37-8
victory over Castleford. There were also only reports on the St Helens Halifax game
and that was it.
Pitty we can not buy the Yorkshire Evening Post down here but then again you
probably know more about what is happening to London Broncos that the supporters
living in the south.

Brendan

--
The opinions expressed in this communication are my own,
  and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.