Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Post by Vibrating Bum-Faced Goa » Tue, 07 May 1996 04:00:00


With one eye on the Wigan - Bath game, this weeks Rugby League Express
has a few interesting comparisons between St.Helens, the winners of
the Silk Cut Challenge Cup and their Pilkington Cup counterparts,
Bath, that I though you might find interesting.

The Playmakers
--------------

          Tackles   Missed   Carries   Yards   Kicks
Catt:        11        3        9       45      20
Goulding:     6        3        7       45      18

Not much of a difference at first glance but the number of kicks and
number of tackles statistics are particlarly misleading. Catt came
close to topping the Bath tackle count, de Glanville beat him by one,
whilst goulding was second bottom of the Saints tackle count.

Goulding topped the kicking by a long way in the Challenge Cup Final
with only two other kicks coming from other players whilst Catt only
just pipped Callard and Nicol in the Pilkington Cup. However, Bath
attempted to close down the opposition kicker 16 times whilst Saints
did the same only once.

Leading Tacklers
----------------

Bath                      St.Helens
------------------------------------
de Glanville   12         Joynt    31
Catt           11         Perelini 27
Robinson       11         Booth    24

If you add up all the tackles made by the Bath pack, Chris Joynt still
beats them all.

This is obviously where Bath will struggle in the League game, if they
don't put out the most mobile pack they have then they're in big
trouble up the middle. Then again if they expect their centres to top
the tackling then they're in big trouble out wide as well.

Probably the most ominous statistic for Bath though is that of
percentage of missed tackles. Saints missed 31 from 237 attempts (13%)
in the Challenge cup Final whilst Bath missed 27 from 103 attempts
(27%) in the Pilkington Cup. If they fall off the Wigan pack like
that, Haughton and Farrell in particular, then they're facing a
cricket score.

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Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Post by Geff Fost » Tue, 07 May 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
>Leading Tacklers
>----------------

>Bath                      St.Helens
>------------------------------------
>de Glanville   12         Joynt    31
>Catt           11         Perelini 27
>Robinson       11         Booth    24

>If you add up all the tackles made by the Bath pack, Chris Joynt still
>beats them all.

Another interesting statistic is that this was Joynt's lowest tackle count
of the season!

Geff

-------------------------------------------------

Geff Foster                 |takes care
St. Helens, Merseyside      |of it's own"
-------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Post by Ben Cle » Tue, 07 May 1996 04:00:00



Quote:
>With one eye on the Wigan - Bath game, this weeks Rugby League Express
>has a few interesting comparisons between St.Helens, the winners of
>the Silk Cut Challenge Cup and their Pilkington Cup counterparts,
>Bath, that I though you might find interesting.

>The Playmakers
>--------------

>          Tackles   Missed   Carries   Yards   Kicks
>Catt:        11        3        9       45      20
>Goulding:     6        3        7       45      18

>Not much of a difference at first glance but the number of kicks and
>number of tackles statistics are particlarly misleading. Catt came
>close to topping the Bath tackle count, de Glanville beat him by one,
>whilst goulding was second bottom of the Saints tackle count.

>Goulding topped the kicking by a long way in the Challenge Cup Final
>with only two other kicks coming from other players whilst Catt only
>just pipped Callard and Nicol in the Pilkington Cup. However, Bath
>attempted to close down the opposition kicker 16 times whilst Saints
>did the same only once.

Having not seen either game (yet -- in the case of the Pilkington Cup
Final), it is interesting to me that Catt presumably kicked every piece of
possession he received within his own 22 directly to touch (since this is
the norm in defensive situations). Since I'm guessing that Goulding did
not do the same every time he received the ball in his own quarter of the
field (since you are pretty much guaranteed possession for a number of
tackles and thus there is no hurry to clear the ball before you lose it),
then his figure must either include a lot of kicks from penalties or in
attacking situations.

Quote:
>Leading Tacklers
>----------------

>Bath                      St.Helens
>------------------------------------
>de Glanville   12         Joynt    31
>Catt           11         Perelini 27
>Robinson       11         Booth    24

>If you add up all the tackles made by the Bath pack, Chris Joynt still
>beats them all.

How do they measure tackles around mauls and in lineouts (since if no
forward had stepped in the way then I'm sure Leicester would have been
happy to keep going up field)?

Are these just one-on-one tackles, or any stopping of the players that you
contribute to?

Quote:

>This is obviously where Bath will struggle in the League game, if they
>don't put out the most mobile pack they have then they're in big
>trouble up the middle.

If Bath don't put out a mobile pack then they are clearly giving people
who are regular players a game rather than selecting their best side for
the day. No need to pick real props against players like Perelini who
after all was a backrow forward in union.

Quote:
>Then again if they expect their centres to top
>the tackling then they're in big trouble out wide as well.

Well one could say that in the union game if the Wigan midfield don't top
the tackle count then they are in trouble.

Quote:
>Probably the most ominous statistic for Bath though is that of
>percentage of missed tackles. Saints missed 31 from 237 attempts (13%)
>in the Challenge cup Final whilst Bath missed 27 from 103 attempts
>(27%) in the Pilkington Cup. If they fall off the Wigan pack like
>that, Haughton and Farrell in particular, then they're facing a
>cricket score.

Firstly they are facing a cricket score anyway, it's hard to believe that
they can do better than teams who dedicate their whole time to playing the
sport, and Wigan regularly run up scores against these teams. Clearly they
will have neither a tactical appreciation, the knowledge of the rules, nor
the fitness required in this different game. Having seen some reasonably
good athletes turn up to play rugby union out here in America and watched
the steepness of the learning curve even placed in among a team who all
know what they are doing (or mostly know what they doing), then it seems
obvious to me that any basic skills are a benefit but don't help you run
the right lines, or do the right things in most situations.

But anyway, one of the reason that the statistics you quote are very
misleading is that in union one's only intention is not to simply stop the
ball carrier. You can't guarantee that if you put in half a dozen tackles
your team will end up with the ball. One of Bath's problems on Saturday
was always likely to be getting possession, and so one of the things they
will have tried to do is to steal as much ball as possible. You may miss
the odd tackle, but you eventually get the ball for your team. Likewise as
a player near to someone else making a tackle you don't simply need to
join in the tackling, but you play for the ball. Now maybe this leaves you
badly positioned to make a followup tackle, or allows the player to escape
many half tackles, but the emphasis is very different. One tackle here or
there, versus virtually surrendering second pahse possession to the
opposition for the entire game. Obviously this will have taught the Bath
players some bad tackling habits, which no doubt Wigan will expose.

On the other hand while the Bath players might find themselves in some
unusual situations, I would bet that they will be more familar with these
than the Wigan guys will be with offside lines that vary, situations were
you can or can't play the ball or run forward, plus the basics like rucks,
mauls, lineouts and rugby union scrums. Except those few who have played
union, there is a lot for the Wigan team to grasp before they can even put
their basic skills to use.

While the union guys are in for a shock with the physical demands of rugby
league, I just hope that the Bath guys are sensible enough to ease up in
the phases of play in the union game that are unique to union. Having had
one tragedy in rugby union's showpiece event last year, lets hope that in
a bid to prove a point for their code that players don't end up causing
another one because of other players' naivety.

   Cheers,

      Ben

=====================================================================
| Ben Clegg                                                         |

| WWW: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~benc                            |
=====================================================================

 
 
 

Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Post by John Dun » Wed, 08 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> How do they measure tackles around mauls and in lineouts (since if no
> forward had stepped in the way then I'm sure Leicester would have been
> happy to keep going up field)?

In RL, tackling usually involves stopping a player running at speed. We
have nothing that equates to running in front of a slow moving group of
players and pushing.

Quote:
> Are these just one-on-one tackles, or any stopping of the players that you
> contribute to?

Most RL stats on tackling count a tackle as "first man in"

Quote:
> >This is obviously where Bath will struggle in the League game, if they
> >don't put out the most mobile pack they have then they're in big
> >trouble up the middle.

> If Bath don't put out a mobile pack then they are clearly giving people
> who are regular players a game rather than selecting their best side for
> the day. No need to pick real props against players like Perelini who
> after all was a backrow forward in union.

Dead right, there's no place in RL for real RU props, especially when
playing against real RL props such as Skerrett and Cowie.
Quote:
> JD

 
 
 

Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Post by Dave Fish » Wed, 08 May 1996 04:00:00


<SNIP>

Quote:
>Probably the most ominous statistic for Bath though is that of
>percentage of missed tackles. Saints missed 31 from 237 attempts (13%)
>in the Challenge cup Final whilst Bath missed 27 from 103 attempts
>(27%) in the Pilkington Cup. If they fall off the Wigan pack like
>that, Haughton and Farrell in particular, then they're facing a
>cricket score.

Chris,

The stats were interesting, and appreciated, but they only become UESFUL
when they are expressed as ratios/percentages in relation to some other
relevant factor (as above). For example, a high personal tackle count may be
more reflective of the fact that the player belongs to a side which is constantly
getting stuffed, than it is of that person's relative work-rate.

I really wish Sky would pick up on this rather obvious point, instead of letting
'eddie and stevo' continue to prattle on about some irrelevant numbers.

Dave

 
 
 

Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Post by Vibrating Bum-Faced Goa » Wed, 08 May 1996 04:00:00

: Chris,

: The stats were interesting, and appreciated, but they only become UESFUL
: when they are expressed as ratios/percentages in relation to some other
: relevant factor (as above). For example, a high personal tackle count may be
: more reflective of the fact that the player belongs to a side which is constantly
: getting stuffed, than it is of that person's relative work-rate.

True, but they weren't meant as such in this instance. Both the
Pilkington Cup Final and the Challenge Cup Final were close games where
the result was not decided until the last five minutes.

The figures of Chris Joynt are about average for the top tackler in any top
RL side. For example, where they have played the full game Jeremy
Donougher, Brian McDermott and Bernard Dwyer of Bradford Moo Cows have
yet to fall below 35 tackles p/game each this season. If last season is
anything to go by I bet Gary Larson of North Sydney has yet to fall below 45.

Certain things you just can't read too much into, such as kicks, and
some things like % of offensive misses (where the ball carrier evades a
tackle) will be so low in professional League as to be almost unusable.

If anyone reading this on rec.sport.rugby.union could suggest a source
for more similar / same Rugby Union statistics then I'd greatly appreciate
it. I'd like to go into this in some more depth over a larger sample.

Cheers,
Chris.

--
Bradford Bulls RLFC      | Rugby League Home Page:
Wembley Finalists 1996   | http://www.brad.ac.uk/~cgrussel/
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get better!              | European Super League season

 
 
 

Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Post by T M Joyc » Wed, 08 May 1996 04:00:00


: With one eye on the Wigan - Bath game, this weeks Rugby League Express
: has a few interesting comparisons between St.Helens, the winners of
: the Silk Cut Challenge Cup and their Pilkington Cup counterparts,
: Bath, that I though you might find interesting.

: The Playmakers
: --------------

:           Tackles   Missed   Carries   Yards   Kicks
: Catt:        11        3        9       45      20
: Goulding:     6        3        7       45      18

: Not much of a difference at first glance but the number of kicks and
: number of tackles statistics are particlarly misleading. Catt came
: close to topping the Bath tackle count, de Glanville beat him by one,
: whilst goulding was second bottom of the Saints tackle count.

Interesting as these figures are, they are in different sports. Catt will
hopefully tackle more in the League game, as he will have more
opportunity to do so when the ball isn't always bing tied up in rolling
mauls.

: Goulding topped the kicking by a long way in the Challenge Cup Final
: with only two other kicks coming from other players whilst Catt only
: just pipped Callard and Nicol in the Pilkington Cup. However, Bath
: attempted to close down the opposition kicker 16 times whilst Saints
: did the same only once.

: Leading Tacklers
: ----------------

: Bath                      St.Helens
: ------------------------------------
: de Glanville   12         Joynt    31
: Catt           11         Perelini 27
: Robinson       11         Booth    24

: If you add up all the tackles made by the Bath pack, Chris Joynt still
: beats them all.

: This is obviously where Bath will struggle in the League game, if they
: don't put out the most mobile pack they have then they're in big
: trouble up the middle. Then again if they expect their centres to top
: the tackling then they're in big trouble out wide as well.

Again, Saints didn't have to try and get the ball out of Deano's jumper
to start tackling.

: Probably the most ominous statistic for Bath though is that of
: percentage of missed tackles. Saints missed 31 from 237 attempts (13%)
: in the Challenge cup Final whilst Bath missed 27 from 103 attempts
: (27%) in the Pilkington Cup. If they fall off the Wigan pack like
: that, Haughton and Farrell in particular, then they're facing a
: cricket score.

This is definitely the most important fact, and Bath will no doubt have
to tighten up for the RL game.

Here's to a good game tomorrow.

--
ttfn,
     Tom

<snailmail: Tom Joyce, Hatfield College, Durham, DH1 3RQ>
         "I drank WHAT?" - Last words of Socrates

 
 
 

Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Post by Vibrating Bum-Faced Goa » Thu, 09 May 1996 04:00:00

<SNIP KICKING STATS>

Quote:
>>Goulding topped the kicking by a long way in the Challenge Cup Final
>>with only two other kicks coming from other players whilst Catt only
>>just pipped Callard and Nicol in the Pilkington Cup. However, Bath
>>attempted to close down the opposition kicker 16 times whilst Saints
>>did the same only once.
>Having not seen either game (yet -- in the case of the Pilkington Cup
>Final), it is interesting to me that Catt presumably kicked every piece of
>possession he received within his own 22 directly to touch (since this is
>the norm in defensive situations). Since I'm guessing that Goulding did
>not do the same every time he received the ball in his own quarter of the
>field (since you are pretty much guaranteed possession for a number of
>tackles and thus there is no hurry to clear the ball before you lose it),
>then his figure must either include a lot of kicks from penalties or in
>attacking situations.

The penalty count in the CC Final was pretty low, but Saints did have
to clear their lines a few times through Goulding's kicking.
Unfortunately for Bradford, I would guess the majority did come from
attacking kicks though of which Goulding is the best in League bar
none IMO.

10 to 15 kicks in general play is about average in RL, regardless of
the level it is played at.

<SNIP TACKLE STATS>

Quote:
>How do they measure tackles around mauls and in lineouts (since if no
>forward had stepped in the way then I'm sure Leicester would have been
>happy to keep going up field)?

Pass.

Quote:
>Are these just one-on-one tackles, or any stopping of the players that you
>contribute to?

When I took stats in amateur RL it was one-on-one tackles. Trading off
the low tackle counts on the part of the Union forwards against what
lttle I know about Union forwards I would say theirs were taken in the
same way.

Quote:
>>This is obviously where Bath will struggle in the League game, if they
>>don't put out the most mobile pack they have then they're in big
>>trouble up the middle.
>If Bath don't put out a mobile pack then they are clearly giving people
>who are regular players a game rather than selecting their best side for
>the day. No need to pick real props against players like Perelini who
>after all was a backrow forward in union.

I'd question your terminology though not your reasoning there Ben! A
'real prop' in League is an entirely different beast than a 'real
prop' in Union. Neither would hack it in the other code.

Quote:
>>Then again if they expect their centres to top
>>the tackling then they're in big trouble out wide as well.
>Well one could say that in the union game if the Wigan midfield don't top
>the tackle count then they are in trouble.

Indeed.

<SNIP>

Quote:
>the fitness required in this different game. Having seen some reasonably
>good athletes turn up to play rugby union out here in America and watched
>the steepness of the learning curve even placed in among a team who all
>know what they are doing (or mostly know what they doing), then it seems
>obvious to me that any basic skills are a benefit but don't help you run
>the right lines, or do the right things in most situations.

Yep, and it stuck out a mile in the first half of the game. Bath tried
to play a Rugby League style game when, frankly, they just weren't
familiar enough with it. In the second half they concentrated more on
their own basic skills and did them comparatively well considering the
pressure they were put under.

At half-time Wigan agreed to do away with the limited substitutions
for Bath whilst sticking to the rules themselves. something which
helped Bath a great deal IMO.

One of their biggest problems in the first half was trying to force
play out from the midfield to the flanks. I don't know if that's a
standard RU tactic at all but it certainly isn't an RL one. That
Martin Offiah (wing) got six tries shows that better than anything
else I can think of.

Having said that, they did manage to get a straight defensive line
together for sustained periods and did manage to close Wigan down well
when they did.

One thing that does strike me immediately from the game. After 20
minutes or so, Wigan were 40 - 0 in front. It was then that two major
playmakers in the Wigan team, Henry Paul and Andy Farrell (stand off
and loose forward respectively) left the field. Wigan could only score
a similar number of points in the remaining 60 minutes from ther on
in. Whether that was to do with Paul and Farrell leaving (both of whom
are excellent goal kickers BTW, 20 points worth of which they missed
after that) or a shoreing up of Bath's style I couldn't say.

Another reason may be that they supported their own players better
when in posession of the ball. They off-loaded the ball in the tackle
more (though not much) *and* drew surrounding tacklers with strong
running thus creating more gaps. Were it not for excellent scrambling
defence on the part of Wigan then the scoreline would have looked
quite different.

Quote:
>But anyway, one of the reason that the statistics you quote are very
>misleading is that in union one's only intention is not to simply stop the

Sorry, my intention wasn't to mislead or offer what would be an
impossible statistical comparison between the relative merits of
League or Union, merely to give something of an indication of how
steep a hill Bath had to climb.

Quote:
>ball carrier. You can't guarantee that if you put in half a dozen tackles
>your team will end up with the ball. One of Bath's problems on Saturday

Ditto in the League rules they played the game under, though obviously
to a lesser extent. In one-on-one tackles ball stealing is allowed.

Quote:
>was always likely to be getting possession, and so one of the things they
>will have tried to do is to steal as much ball as possible. You may miss
>the odd tackle, but you eventually get the ball for your team. Likewise as
>a player near to someone else making a tackle you don't simply need to
>join in the tackling, but you play for the ball. Now maybe this leaves you
>badly positioned to make a followup tackle, or allows the player to escape
>many half tackles, but the emphasis is very different. One tackle here or
>there, versus virtually surrendering second pahse possession to the
>opposition for the entire game. Obviously this will have taught the Bath
>players some bad tackling habits, which no doubt Wigan will expose.

They did, ruthlessly too. Bath did catch on in the second half though
quite well and I was very impressed. de Glanville in particular had a
good game from this point of view considering his lack of experience.
Catt and Callard gave a good account of themselves too but all the
forwards could have been playing snooker.

Cheers,
Chris.

 
 
 

Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Post by Dick Jam » Thu, 09 May 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>: Probably the most ominous statistic for Bath though is that of
>: percentage of missed tackles. Saints missed 31 from 237 attempts (13%)
>: in the Challenge cup Final whilst Bath missed 27 from 103 attempts
>: (27%) in the Pilkington Cup. If they fall off the Wigan pack like
>: that, Haughton and Farrell in particular, then they're facing a
>: cricket score.
>This is definitely the most important fact, and Bath will no doubt have
>to tighten up for the RL game.

This also is misleading because tackling in RU is much more tactically risky
than it is in RL. In practice this means that tackles are mostly one on one
with a greater chance of a tackle being missed.

- in RL a successful tackle stops the game pro tem and so more
  resources - ie 2 or more tacklers - can be committed to stopping the ball
  carrier to make sure that the tackle is successful since the tacklers will
  be (if fit enough) back in the game as soon as it restarts

- in RU tacklers can be more readily put out of the game because the game
  does not have to stop when a tackle is made. Thus using 2 or more
  tacklers puts them out of the defence if the attack continues by the
  tackled one's team and a score or significant advantage is there to be had.

Dick James

 
 
 

Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Post by Anthony Jacqu » Fri, 10 May 1996 04:00:00


<I've snipped all the stats talk, as thats irelevant now>

Quote:
>>the fitness required in this different game. Having seen some reasonably
>>good athletes turn up to play rugby union out here in America and watched
>>the steepness of the learning curve even placed in among a team who all
>>know what they are doing (or mostly know what they doing), then it seems
>>obvious to me that any basic skills are a benefit but don't help you run
>>the right lines, or do the right things in most situations.

>Yep, and it stuck out a mile in the first half of the game. Bath tried
>to play a Rugby League style game when, frankly, they just weren't
>familiar enough with it. In the second half they concentrated more on
>their own basic skills and did them comparatively well considering the
>pressure they were put under.

I would disagree with this - at the beginning, Bath looked to be trying
to play Union under League rules.

For example take the kick off - Bath kicked a short ball, and tried to
get under it, intending catch it, and pass it out to the backs. This is
tipical union tactics - normally they would set up a (rolling?) maul,
and then pass it out to the backs. League tactics seems to be (judging
from the few games i've seen) to kick it as far as possible. (Wigan did
this EVERY time last night...)

There were times in the first half when you could see the forwards wanting
to ruck and maul, but not being able to. There was even a point where
Catt (?) caught a high ball, and looked like he was about to shout 'mark'
(he stood still, as if waiting for everyone to stop...)

I agree that they went back to basics in the first half - making tackles,
closing Wigan down, and generally trying to contain them - but I wouldn't
say that it is necessarily 'their own' basic skills - the Bath forwards
are much more used to a good scrum and maul than they are at passing the
ball about.

Quote:
>At half-time Wigan agreed to do away with the limited substitutions
>for Bath whilst sticking to the rules themselves. something which
>helped Bath a great deal IMO.

Yes, I guess it would, as the Wigan players are bound to be fitter (and so
have better stamina)

I didn't know about this though (I guess it was on the TV comentary?)

Quote:
>One of their biggest problems in the first half was trying to force
>play out from the midfield to the flanks. I don't know if that's a
>standard RU tactic at all but it certainly isn't an RL one. That
>Martin Offiah (wing) got six tries shows that better than anything
>else I can think of.

In RU, it is common for the forwards to repeatedly try and break though
in the centre, setting it up, and carrying on, having drawn in more
oposition players, thus creating an overlap. Because of the abscence
of rucks and mauls, this tactic obviously cannot work (or at least Bath
certainly had no success) because the players will not all be drawn into
the maul.

Quote:
>Having said that, they did manage to get a straight defensive line
>together for sustained periods and did manage to close Wigan down well
>when they did.

Yes, they did in the second half, but too often they let Wigan go a
good 10 meters before stopping them...

Quote:
>One thing that does strike me immediately from the game. After 20
>minutes or so, Wigan were 40 - 0 in front. It was then that two major
>playmakers in the Wigan team, Henry Paul and Andy Farrell (stand off
>and loose forward respectively) left the field. Wigan could only score
>a similar number of points in the remaining 60 minutes from ther on
>in. Whether that was to do with Paul and Farrell leaving (both of whom
>are excellent goal kickers BTW, 20 points worth of which they missed
>after that) or a shoreing up of Bath's style I couldn't say.

I would guess its a bit of both - Bath certainly played better in the
second half, and I'm sure loosing key players (all be it tactical)
cannot have helped Wigan.

Quote:
>Another reason may be that they supported their own players better
>when in posession of the ball. They off-loaded the ball in the tackle
>more (though not much) *and* drew surrounding tacklers with strong
>running thus creating more gaps. Were it not for excellent scrambling
>defence on the part of Wigan then the scoreline would have looked
>quite different.

Yes, Bath are used to supporting more than Wigan, as they have to get
people there in numbers to make sure they dont loose the ball in a
ruck/maul...

Quote:
>>ball carrier. You can't guarantee that if you put in half a dozen tackles
>>your team will end up with the ball. One of Bath's problems on Saturday

>Ditto in the League rules they played the game under, though obviously
>to a lesser extent. In one-on-one tackles ball stealing is allowed.

Yes, but in Union, after they have been tackled, they dont just let them
up...

Quote:
>> One tackle here or
>>there, versus virtually surrendering second pahse possession to the
>>opposition for the entire game. Obviously this will have taught the Bath
>>players some bad tackling habits, which no doubt Wigan will expose.

>They did, ruthlessly too. Bath did catch on in the second half though
>quite well and I was very impressed.

Yes, by the end Bath were beginning to get the hang of it... But Wigan
certainly showed that they have pace, and can certainly make BIG tackles,
which should make the Twickenham game interesting...

Quote:
>de Glanville in particular had a
>good game from this point of view considering his lack of experience.
>Catt and Callard gave a good account of themselves too but all the
>forwards could have been playing snooker.

Yes, although 'ollie' Redman, who came on in the second half (and then
went back off again...) played well.

Anthony
(A Bath supporter, in case you hadn't guessed! :-)

--
-------------------------------------+------------------------------
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Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Post by Dave Fish » Fri, 10 May 1996 04:00:00


<snip>:

Quote:
>Bath did catch on in the second half though
>quite well and I was very impressed. de Glanville in particular had a
>good game from this point of view considering his lack of experience.
>Catt and Callard gave a good account of themselves too but all the
>forwards could have been playing snooker.

Funny, I'm sure I saw Ojomo (spelling?) cross the gain line 2 or three times
with the ball.

On the other hand, I was a bit pissed at the time.

Dave

 
 
 

Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Post by Vibrating Bum-Faced Goa » Fri, 10 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


><snip>:
>>Bath did catch on in the second half though
>>quite well and I was very impressed. de Glanville in particular had a
>>good game from this point of view considering his lack of experience.
>>Catt and Callard gave a good account of themselves too but all the
>>forwards could have been playing snooker.
>Funny, I'm sure I saw Ojomo (spelling?) cross the gain line 2 or three times
>with the ball.

He might have done but to be honest I wouldn't recognise him if he
slapped me on the head.

Quote:
>On the other hand, I was a bit pissed at the time.

So was I, the Dudley Hill Thunderbirds (local women's team) were in
the pub celebrating the end of their season too so it was a bit of a
strain to hear the commentary.
 
 
 

Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Post by Ben Cle » Fri, 10 May 1996 04:00:00



<<stuff deleted>>

Quote:
>Bath tried
>to play a Rugby League style game when, frankly, they just weren't
>familiar enough with it. In the second half they concentrated more on
>their own basic skills and did them comparatively well considering the
>pressure they were put under.

>At half-time Wigan agreed to do away with the limited substitutions
>for Bath whilst sticking to the rules themselves. something which
>helped Bath a great deal IMO.
> Bath did catch on in the second half though
>quite well and I was very impressed. de Glanville in particular had a
>good game from this point of view considering his lack of experience.
>Catt and Callard gave a good account of themselves too but all the
>forwards could have been playing snooker.

Well one thing yet to be commented upon is what the game suggested about
how Bath would match up against an "ordinary" rugby league side. I'm sure
Wigan run up big totals against some good sides, and clearly the game
threw Bath in at the deep end. Obviously Bath can't live with the best (no
surprises there), but anyone hazard a guess at where Bath might stand? I
did hear at one point talk of expanding rugby league to some new areas
(like Paris). How might Bath fare against the lower teams in the "Super
League"? How about some of the lesser nations who competed in the rugby
league world cup who equally may never have been exposed to frequent top
class rugby league?

Hardly a surprise to see the game drew its predictable pathetic gloating
from a small group of dullards who seem to believe that this exhibition
rugby game is best considered a means to generate some vitriol. Do these
same people pour scorn on rugby league clubs who get hammered by Wigan? If
the top amateur rugby league side played Wigan and lost by the same score
what would their reaction be? Never mind, I am sure we can look forward to
more carping after the return union match, whatever the outcome.

   Cheers,

      Ben

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Wigan v Bath - The First Game

Post by p matthe » Sat, 11 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:
>Well one thing yet to be commented upon is what the game suggested about
>how Bath would match up against an "ordinary" rugby league side. I'm sure
>Wigan run up big totals against some good sides, and clearly the game
>threw Bath in at the deep end. Obviously Bath can't live with the best (no
>surprises there), but anyone hazard a guess at where Bath might stand? I
>did hear at one point talk of expanding rugby league to some new areas
>(like Paris). How might Bath fare against the lower teams in the "Super
>League"? How about some of the lesser nations who competed in the rugby
>league world cup who equally may never have been exposed to frequent top
>class rugby league?

Ben, Wigan beat Paris three days before the Bath match, 76-8. A Very
similar score. If you look into the details though, Wigan were only
full strength for 20 mins when they ran up 30 points (Extrapolate that
to the whole match and you get 120, but I'm not saying that would have
hapenned) Wigan took off two Highly influential players (Farrell and
Paul) who just happenned to be Wigans best two kickers at the moment.
After that Wigan missed about 20pts worth of kicks.

I think in reality, Bath would struggle against most SL teams, but
that is down to it being a different game. I think the return match
should also be very interesting.

To me, the results of these matches in themselves do not have much
real significance. They are interesting comparisons, but the biggest
significance is that they are actually hapenning. This is a bigger
turn round from the RFU than the RL, when players used to get banned
for two years simply for going for an un paid trial (Remember Steve
Pilgrim?)

Paul.