What has happened to Leigh?

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by Liam Mycro » Sat, 11 May 1996 04:00:00


Can anybody explain  the predicament of Leigh's performances this
season.  At the end of the Centenary Season they looked in good
shape, with the highlight the trip to Hull KR, the Centenary Champs,
in the Challenge Cup where Leigh nilled them in a tremendous
performance, and further gave a fighting show against the Bradford
Bulls, although outclassed by the Mad Cows in the end.

This summer season has seen a disasterous start, culminating in
the sacking of Ian Lucas, and the appointment of Eric Hughes as the
latest saviour. Eric's first game saw a loss to the Welsh Dragons
at Home, and the side many tipped for promotion languishing at the
bottom of the pile, even below Prescott.

What has gone wrong?

The players are not that much different from last season, the new
players are supposed to be better than those they replaced, but
the results have been disappointing to say the least.

I've only been to one game this season, being an exile, the
pathetic display against Swinton. My opinion was that there
appeared to be little fight in the team, no get up and go spirit.

I remember the days in the First Division a few years ago when the
Kids were getting beat every week, but they seemed to be trying,
they weren't against Swinton, and the results seem to indicate
the same against the rest.

I know that most of the users of this newsgroup are Super League
fans, but I am also aware that there are a few Leigh fans out
there, any one got any thoughts.

Liam

 
 
 

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by Matt Collin » Sun, 12 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>Can anybody explain  the predicament of Leigh's performances this
>season.

(Cry from the heart snipped)

I saw them in the season opener at Bramley, and despite having the better
of the play (and scoring more tries), they seemed to let themselves down
on the discipline front. Main culprit - Tim Street. Every time I've seen
him play he's nearly always been sinbinned. He went off in the
aforementioned match, we scored, and held on for a slightly less than
famous victory.

Cheers

Matt

 
 
 

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by NGribb » Mon, 13 May 1996 04:00:00

I'd say Leigh need players who are prepared to get stuck in, and I don't
mean 'get stuck in' in the Tim Street sense!  

There's no point Leigh signing players like David Lyon, whose heart isn't
really at the club.  Do you really think Lyon cares about Leigh?

Eric Hughes is a good coach, but I'm not sure he's a good motivator, and
Leigh probably need a motivator to get the lads keyed up.  Getting beat by
South Wales must have been embarrassing though.  

Leigh really need to get their finances in order before they can
contemplate being successful again.  Leigh seem unable to attract players
aswell which also causes problems.  Perhaps John Woods could give them
half a season though!

Nick - who remembers Leigh beating Saints at Hilton Park not too long ago!

=====================================
Nick Gribben                  

St.Helens R.L.F.C. Unofficial Homepage
http://members.aol.com/ngribben/saints/saints.htm
1996 Challenge Cup Winners                                    
======================================

 
 
 

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by Jason McCa » Tue, 14 May 1996 04:00:00

I went to yesterdays match against York and thankfully it was a great
improvement on their recent form. Leighs biggest problem is their inability to
keep young talent or negotiate a decent transfer fee for their talented young
players. Leigh is a hotbed of Rugby League talent, just a few names to have
learn't their trade playing for the towns amateur teams:-

Paul Rowley (Halifax)
Craig Dean (Halifax)
Simon Baldwin (Halifax)
Scot Martin (Salford)
Tommy Martyn (St. Helens)
Dennis Betts

When you consider that Paul Rowley was allowed to leave Leigh for a mere 40K and
was recently on the transfer list for 250K a year later it just goes to show
what poor businessmen they have at the club. I don't know how true this story is
but I heard at the weekend that Halifax offered about 100K worth of players
(Mark Preston was one) for ex leigh winfer Dean Hanger now playing at
Huddersfield, Leigh sold him for 1K.

I'll get off my soap box now and try to give some positive reasons for the sides
poor form, firstly we have a number of key players from last season on the
sidelines with injury, most notably club captain Ged Stazicker who was fantastic
last season, also Chris Wilkinson (Scrum Half) and Tau Liku (Prop) are also out
with injury. It was nice to see Shaun Brown play on Sunday since returning from
his broken arm, also some people have slagged David Lyons off for not having his
heart in Leigh, well he scored twice on Sunday and looked comitted to me, Leigh
could have uncovered another good youngster in Aidrian Hadcroft who seems to get
better each game and last season top try socrere Andy Cheetham was also on the
bench after returning from injury. Timmy Street is always going to be a
liability but he drives the team and his heart is 110% in Leigh, he's a good
player when he keeps his cool and the other players respect him and work for
him.

A second reason for Leigh's poor form in the earlier games was possibly down to
Ian Lucas, none of the players liked Lucas and a few who stayed away because of
him are now returning to the club. I don't know the exact details of why he was
so disliked by the players but every time you saw them in the pub after the game
they were always slagging him off.

I just hope Eric Hughes can turn things around, its only two seasons since we
beat St Helens and Bradford and stuffed Wigan in a pre-season friendly (Most of
their first team players did play, Tuigamala was run ragged by Paul Rowley).

BTW when I win the lottery and pump the money into the club then no doubt uncle
Maurice will come running with a free invite to super league, couldn't believe
what I heard on the radio today about a side from Sout Wales and another
Humberside club being allowed int SL next season, I just hope its not true, it
looks like uncle Maurice is handpicking the teams for SL and shitting on those
who have been involved for 101 years and who have nurtured the game to what it
is today.
--
Jason McCaul

 
 
 

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by Jason McCa » Tue, 14 May 1996 04:00:00

Load of bollocks follows:-

Quote:
>Yes folks, a typical Rugby League supporters attitude here - short sightedness
>and naivety rolled into one! I'm afraid if the likes of Jason McCaul were in
>charge of the RL there would probably be one division of 36 teams playing 40+
>games a season. So what if the teams are handpicked for the SL. I, for one,
>congratulate Maurice Lindsay on developing the game past the traditional areas
>and in fact don't think he's gone far enough. There was no mention of Newcastle
>in the proposals (even though Sir John Hall's offer of starting up a super league
>team is still on the table). Likewise there was also no mention of Barcellona,
>which should, I think, form a team in the near future.
>No, the SL needs more teams from outside of the North of England.
>Neil

So Neil,

stuff clubs who have been around for 100 years and just give anyone with a bit
of cash a super league place, I mean for godsake don't make them earn their
place by playing teams like Leigh, Barrow, Swinton and the others that this game
was founded by, they mught loose and we couldn't have that now could we Neil or
should that be Maurice? and then again perhaps Rupert wouldn't want to plough
his millions into the less fashinable clubs so we'll systematically erradicate
them by never allowing them to be promoted because their place will be taken by
Dublin Donkees or Barcelona Barracudas.

 Its only 15 years since Wigan were in the second division and Leigh were League
Champions, lets not just forget that., what would have happend if that were the
situation today, then perhaps Wigan would be one of the clubs being shat  upon
and alot of their fans who now show scant regard for the plight of other clubs
would be up in arms at these proposals instead of supporting uncle Maurice and
his plans for world domination. I agree that the game must move forward but not
at all cost.

Finally Neil, surprise me, which club do you support, come on I'm dying to know?
This wouldn't happen to be a SHORT SIGHTED (to use your words) & SELFISH view of
a fan of a club that featues Heavilly in uncle Maurice's plans would it?

--
Jason McCaul

 
 
 

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by N.G. Hallin » Wed, 15 May 1996 04:00:00

I read on the Leigh Journal home page, a few weeks back, that Hughe's couldn't
beleive that Leigh's training methods were so poor, considering how close they
ran Hull KR last season. Apparently alot of the players didn't 'see eye-to-eye'
with Lucas which may account for the poor performance of the team so far this
season (however, a good win against York last week end looks good for the future).

Neil

 
 
 

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by N.G. Hallin » Wed, 15 May 1996 04:00:00

stuff deleted

Quote:
> BTW when I win the lottery and pump the money into the club then no doubt uncle
> Maurice will come running with a free invite to super league, couldn't believe
> what I heard on the radio today about a side from Sout Wales and another
> Humberside club being allowed int SL next season, I just hope its not true, it
> looks like uncle Maurice is handpicking the teams for SL and shitting on those
> who have been involved for 101 years and who have nurtured the game to what it
> is today.
> --
> Jason McCaul

Yes folks, a typical Rugby League supporters attitude here - short sightedness
and naivety rolled into one! I'm afraid if the likes of Jason McCaul were in
charge of the RL there would probably be one division of 36 teams playing 40+
games a season. So what if the teams are handpicked for the SL. I, for one,
congratulate Maurice Lindsay on developing the game past the traditional areas
and in fact don't think he's gone far enough. There was no mention of Newcastle
in the proposals (even though Sir John Hall's offer of starting up a super league
team is still on the table). Likewise there was also no mention of Barcellona,
which should, I think, form a team in the near future.

No, the SL needs more teams from outside of the North of England.

Neil

 
 
 

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by Liam Mycro » Fri, 17 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


>stuff deleted

>Yes folks, a typical Rugby League supporters attitude here - short sightedness
>and naivety rolled into one! I'm afraid if the likes of Jason McCaul were in
>charge of the RL there would probably be one division of 36 teams playing 40+
>games a season. So what if the teams are handpicked for the SL. I, for one,
>congratulate Maurice Lindsay on developing the game past the traditional areas
>and in fact don't think he's gone far enough. There was no mention of Newcastle
>in the proposals (even though Sir John Hall's offer of starting up a super league
>team is still on the table). Likewise there was also no mention of Barcellona,
>which should, I think, form a team in the near future.

>No, the SL needs more teams from outside of the North of England.

>Neil

As I started this thread by asking the question as to Leigh's
progress so far this season, I thought I'd better throw my two
penneth back into the ring.

I better say from the outset that I want to see RL become the
Number 1 sport in the UK, nay the world, as I beleive it actually
is one on the most exciting, entertaining games around.  

However that development of the game has to take account of the
clubs that are already around, and not ditch them to allow for
marketing opportunities in new areas.  By all means develop and
fast track new teams in new areas, but always remember the roots of
the game, because eventually the media interest will pass to
another "Supersport" for TV audiences, and whilst the game may well
hang around in London and South Wales, the future development will
rely on new players coming through, home grown talent.  

That talent will inevitably come from the traditional areas of the
game, whether we like it or not, for the simple reason that the
infrastructure exists in those areas NOW.  It will take
twenty/thirty years to develop the amateur/schoolboy base in the
"new" areas and without investment by the developing clubs the
local talent will never develop.

It has been said by others that the Leigh area has thrown up
numerous players who have been signed by other clubs.  Thsi is not
because the Leigh air produces League players, but because the
schools and amateur clubs in the town exist today, and have done
for many years.  Leigh Miners, Leigh East, Leigh Rangers, are all
developing players who can and do progress into the top flight,
and it is only by maintaining these clubs that the future of the
game will grow.

Clubs like Leigh must be able to rekindle their status in the top
flight of the game, not necessarily by forcing them into the
Superleague, but by ensuring that they don't die because ALL the
resources are poured into the top twelve teams.  Promotion and
relegation MUST be a part and parcel of the game, and for pity
sake please don't change the rules halfway through the seaason.  

Set out the rules for how many teams go up and down and stick by
them. If two teams are to be promoted from Div 1 to the SL and two
teams relegated, then so be it. The top two should still go up
ecven if other teams are fast tracked - expand the SL, don't make
the crass result of the Centenary Season where Champions were not
promoted stay as the guide.  For example Hull KR should be playing
in the 1st Division NOW, look at their results in Div 2, they are
a class ahead of the field.  Perhaps if they had been allowed to go
up the talk of a merger on Humberside would be different.

Enough of my views for now, I hope they appear fair and balanced,
but who am I to judge.

Liam

 
 
 

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by Steve Unswor » Fri, 17 May 1996 04:00:00

I've always been puzzled by Leigh's finances. A few years ago they
sold Drummond to Warrington and their training pitch to B & Q and
*still* managed to be nearly bankrupt.

In more recent times they accept a property developer onto the board
who lends them money and then the club nearly disappears when he
decides that he since they can't repay the loan he'll take the ground
for development instead.

Regarding their current performance,I haven't seen Leigh this year but
they can only improve. Still at least I can say that I saw them stuff
Leeds at Wembley 25 years ago :-)

Steve Unsworth


 
 
 

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by Leigh Gillespi » Fri, 17 May 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

> McCaul) writes:

> stuff deleted

> > BTW when I win the lottery and pump the money into the club then no
> > doubt uncle Maurice will come running with a free invite to super
> > league, couldn't believe what I heard on the radio today about a side
> > from Sout Wales and another Humberside club being allowed int SL next
> > season, I just hope its not true, it looks like uncle Maurice is
> > handpicking the teams for SL and shitting on those who have been
> > involved for 101 years and who have nurtured the game to what it
> > is today.
> > --
> > Jason McCaul

> Yes folks, a typical Rugby League supporters attitude here - short
> sightedness and naivety rolled into one! I'm afraid if the likes of
> Jason McCaul were in charge of the RL there would probably be one
> division of 36 teams playing 40+ games a season. So what if the teams
> are handpicked for the SL. I, for one, congratulate Maurice Lindsay on
> developing the game past the traditional areas and in fact don't think
> he's gone far enough. There was no mention of Newcastle in the proposals
> (even though Sir John Hall's offer of starting up a super league team is
> still on the table). Likewise there was also no mention of Barcellona,
> which should, I think, form a team in the near future.

> No, the SL needs more teams from outside of the North of England.

> Neil

        Here, here. It's the same old attitude that we've been battling
in Australia for years. Do these people really think that it helps to have
the game confined to small regional pockets, where all the clubs compete
for the same finite dollar instead of having their own markets? Where
clubs are forcing each other to the wall as they starve each other of
finances? Where the game just attracts the same old supporters that
it's always had and never new ones?
        Mr McCaul tells us that we shouldn't "shit" on those clubs that
have been around for the last 101 years and nurtured the game to where it
is today. Well, let's just examine where the game is. Before SL, 101 years
of progress had moved the game's boundaries as far south as Sheffield, as
far north as Bradford (Cumbria if you prefer to include 1st division), as
far east as Hull and not even as far west as ***y Liverpool! If this is
the way the current crop have nurtured the game in 101 years then it's
about time we started shitting on them and the more shit the better!
        No doubt Mr McCaul is one of these people who then turns around
and bemoans the small profile of league. He probably wonders why he has to
pay to watch the game on tele because the Beeb won't pick it up. He
probably wonders why clubs can't draw crowds, can't afford players, can't
attract descent sponsorship and can't pay their bills. With these sort of
attitudes prevailing for a century it is no wonder that league needed the
radical reforms of Lindsay and Murdoch's millions.

Catchya round, Leigh

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Leigh T. Gillespie                  *    "It takes leather balls *
* Phone - Australia (077) 791219      *     to play Rugby!"                *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 
 
 

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by Jason McCa » Sat, 18 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>    Here, here. It's the same old attitude that we've been battling
>in Australia for years. Do these people really think that it helps to have
>the game confined to small regional pockets, where all the clubs compete
>for the same finite dollar instead of having their own markets? Where
>clubs are forcing each other to the wall as they starve each other of
>finances? Where the game just attracts the same old supporters that
>it's always had and never new ones?
>    Mr McCaul tells us that we shouldn't "shit" on those clubs that
>have been around for the last 101 years and nurtured the game to where it
>is today. Well, let's just examine where the game is. Before SL, 101 years
>of progress had moved the game's boundaries as far south as Sheffield, as
>far north as Bradford (Cumbria if you prefer to include 1st division), as
>far east as Hull and not even as far west as ***y Liverpool! If this is
>the way the current crop have nurtured the game in 101 years then it's
>about time we started shitting on them and the more shit the better!
>    No doubt Mr McCaul is one of these people who then turns around
>and bemoans the small profile of league. He probably wonders why he has to
>pay to watch the game on tele because the Beeb won't pick it up. He
>probably wonders why clubs can't draw crowds, can't afford players, can't
>attract descent sponsorship and can't pay their bills. With these sort of
>attitudes prevailing for a century it is no wonder that league needed the
>radical reforms of Lindsay and Murdoch's millions.

Yawn, Ywan, Yawn. It seems as though this group has an awful lot of selfish
bastards in it. What did you do to deserve a name like Leigh? anyway in case you
chose to ignore a sentace in my previous post I'll repeat it for you 'Yes the
game must expand, BUT NOT AT ALL COST!', I don't moan about paying to watch the
game on TV, I pay my regular subscription to Mr Murdoch and enjoy what I receive
i.e. The Workington Vs Halifax game was excellent entertainment, I don't bemoan
the small profile of the game, I enjoy the game for what it is I support my
local club home and away, I  do feel strongly about someone who bought his way
into the game coming in and trying to re-arrange the game at all cost, the only
way the expansion of RL will succeed is gradually, you can put your teams in
Paris, Barcelona and Newcastle, let them off with a bang and for a few weeks
even months the local interest may be good but unless you have the grass roots
to support the expansion it is gauranteed to fail. How many schools in
Newcastle, Paris & Barcelona know how to play RL? so where will their players
come from? Just a few questions that need answering, the old adage 'Learn to
walk before you run springs to mind'. As for Crowds, Players and Wages, well I
think they are linked, unless you have good players you will not be able to draw
good crowds and thanks to Maurice Lindsay good players now cost the earth, the
way the league is structured at the moment with Murdochs money being distributed
uevenly amongst the clubs this is seemingly a situation the lower division clubs
will have to live with unless they snap up local talent, something which Paris,
Newcastle and Barcelona will struggle to do unless the expansion is at grass
roots level and not thrown in at the deep end..

Quote:
>Catchya round, Leigh

I Wish

--
Jason McCaul

 
 
 

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by Jason McCa » Sat, 18 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>I've always been puzzled by Leigh's finances. A few years ago they
>sold Drummond to Warrington and their training pitch to B & Q and
>*still* managed to be nearly bankrupt.

And John Woods

Quote:
>In more recent times they accept a property developer onto the board
>who lends them money and then the club nearly disappears when he
>decides that he since they can't repay the loan he'll take the ground
>for development instead.

All Sorted out  now, the ground is owned by local football club and Leigh have a
50 year lease on the ground. I think the Current management do want to see the
club back in its rightful place but frankly don't have the cash it will take and
I personally don't think they have the business skills to do it, the Chairman
owns a local furniture store and the commercail director (I maybe wrong about
this one) I think owns a local Taxi business, not exactly the ideal background
for hard negotiation of deals/contracts etc.

Quote:
>Regarding their current performance,I haven't seen Leigh this year but
>they can only improve. Still at least I can say that I saw them stuff
>Leeds at Wembley 25 years ago :-)

Ah yes 1971, this weeks Leigh Journal is a special Silver Jubilee version
dedicated to that Wonderful Day.

Quote:
>Steve Unsworth


--
Jason McCaul
 
 
 

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by N.G. Hallin » Sat, 18 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


> Load of bollocks follows:-
> >Yes folks, a typical Rugby League supporters attitude here - short sightedness
> >and naivety rolled into one! I'm afraid if the likes of Jason McCaul were in
> >charge of the RL there would probably be one division of 36 teams playing 40+
> >games a season. So what if the teams are handpicked for the SL. I, for one,
> >congratulate Maurice Lindsay on developing the game past the traditional areas
> >and in fact don't think he's gone far enough. There was no mention of Newcastle
> >in the proposals (even though Sir John Hall's offer of starting up a super league
> >team is still on the table). Likewise there was also no mention of Barcellona,
> >which should, I think, form a team in the near future.

> >No, the SL needs more teams from outside of the North of England.

> >Neil

> So Neil,

> stuff clubs who have been around for 100 years and just give anyone with a bit
> of cash a super league place, I mean for godsake don't make them earn their
> place by playing teams like Leigh, Barrow, Swinton and the others that this game
> was founded by, they mught loose and we couldn't have that now could we Neil or
> should that be Maurice? and then again perhaps Rupert wouldn't want to plough
> his millions into the less fashinable clubs so we'll systematically erradicate
> them by never allowing them to be promoted because their place will be taken by
> Dublin Donkees or Barcelona Barracudas.

>  Its only 15 years since Wigan were in the second division and Leigh were League
> Champions, lets not just forget that., what would have happend if that were the
> situation today, then perhaps Wigan would be one of the clubs being shat  upon
> and alot of their fans who now show scant regard for the plight of other clubs
> would be up in arms at these proposals instead of supporting uncle Maurice and
> his plans for world domination. I agree that the game must move forward but not
> at all cost.

> Finally Neil, surprise me, which club do you support, come on I'm dying to know?
> This wouldn't happen to be a SHORT SIGHTED (to use your words) & SELFISH view of
> a fan of a club that featues Heavilly in uncle Maurice's plans would it?

You've said nothing new here Jason. My point is that if the league doesn't expand
to include major cities within the UK and Europe the game will quickly die away.
Attendences of 2500 and less for a professional set up won't be capable of
sustaining growth and development. Prior to Super League, the required capital
was not there to develop grounds - the majority of fans would have been attracted
to more glamorous sports which can cater for the 'modern' fan (have you seen the
Manchester Storm ice hockey team yet?).

As for your final question, I'm a Leigh supporter and have been to the majority
of home and away matches over the past twelve seasons.

Neil

 
 
 

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by WiganRLf » Sat, 18 May 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
McCaul) writes:

<stuff deleted>

Quote:
>the only
>way the expansion of RL will succeed is gradually, you can put your teams
in
>Paris, Barcelona and Newcastle, let them off with a bang and for a few
weeks
>even months the local interest may be good but unless you have the grass
>roots
>to support the expansion it is gauranteed to fail.

This is a good point.  In the past UK RL's attempts to expand have been
failures.  

I get the impression that in Aussie a great deal more ground work is put
in before a new club is set up or allowed to enter the top flight.  Feeder
teams, a good amateur league in place etc.  

While not perfect the Aussies have seemed to make a better go of expansion
than we have, although thinking about it, thats not hard to do.

One thing that strikes me though is that since London have been fast
tracked into SL, got hold of some decent players and the broncos took an
interest they have become much more competative.  Most people were
expecting them to be crap.

There is a lesson here.  Fast tracking can (in terms of getting a
competative team going) work and can therefore be used effectivly to
expand the game quickly.   BUT will the Boncos success last due to NOT
having any grass roots local interest?

On the subject of fast tracking as a principle, it should not be at the
expense of teams in lower divisions.  To re-organise the seasons promotion
rules again half way through would be mind blowingly stupid.

This is not me being sentimental about old established clubs.  By all
means introduce teams to the SL directly but stick to the rules of the
comp re relegation/promotion.

The only problem with this is that it would mean more teams in the SL.  I
thought we wanted less to improve the standard of the comp?

Who would be an RL administrator?    

Dave

Wigan RLFC - Simply the Best

Shaun Edwards for Prime Minister

 
 
 

What has happened to Leigh?

Post by Leigh Gillespi » Mon, 20 May 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


> >       Here, here. It's the same old attitude that we've been battling
> >in Australia for years. Do these people really think that it helps to have
> >the game confined to small regional pockets, where all the clubs compete
> >for the same finite dollar instead of having their own markets? Where
> >clubs are forcing each other to the wall as they starve each other of
> >finances? Where the game just attracts the same old supporters that
> >it's always had and never new ones?
> >       Mr McCaul tells us that we shouldn't "shit" on those clubs that
> >have been around for the last 101 years and nurtured the game to where it
> >is today. Well, let's just examine where the game is. Before SL, 101 years
> >of progress had moved the game's boundaries as far south as Sheffield, as
> >far north as Bradford (Cumbria if you prefer to include 1st division), as
> >far east as Hull and not even as far west as ***y Liverpool! If this is
> >the way the current crop have nurtured the game in 101 years then it's
> >about time we started shitting on them and the more shit the better!
> >       No doubt Mr McCaul is one of these people who then turns around
> >and bemoans the small profile of league. He probably wonders why he has to
> >pay to watch the game on tele because the Beeb won't pick it up. He
> >probably wonders why clubs can't draw crowds, can't afford players, can't
> >attract descent sponsorship and can't pay their bills. With these sort of
> >attitudes prevailing for a century it is no wonder that league needed the
> >radical reforms of Lindsay and Murdoch's millions.

> Yawn, Ywan, Yawn. It seems as though this group has an awful lot of selfish
> bastards in it. What did you do to deserve a name like Leigh?

        I was born to two loving, *married* parents. Perhaps some were not
so lucky...

Quote:
> anyway in case you chose to ignore a sentace in my previous post I'll
> repeat it for you 'Yes the game must expand, BUT NOT AT ALL COST!',

        I did not choose to ignore the statement, nor did I seek to argue
with it. I am not advocating change at all cost but a change of direction
and approach to the one that has moved the game in England no where in 101
years.

Quote:
> I don't moan about paying to watch the game on TV, I pay my regular
> subscription to Mr Murdoch and enjoy what I receive i.e. The Workington
> Vs Halifax game was excellent entertainment, I don't bemoan the small
> profile of the game, I enjoy the game for what it is I support my local
> club home and away,

        I withdraw the critical statement but ask the question would you
prefer to see the game remain in its current state (or more importantly in
its state before SL) or become the bigger more widespread game that it
could? If the answer is the latter then at least some current clubs have
to go to make way for the new. It's an unfortunate side effect of the
expansion process.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> I  do feel strongly about someone who bought his way into the game
> coming in and trying to re-arrange the game at all cost, the only way
> the expansion of RL will succeed is gradually, you can put your teams in
> Paris, Barcelona and Newcastle, let them off with a bang and for a few
> weeks even months the local interest may be good but unless you have the
> grass roots to support the expansion it is gauranteed to fail. How many
> schools in Newcastle, Paris & Barcelona know how to play RL? so where
> will their players come from? Just a few questions that need answering,
> the old adage 'Learn to walk before you run springs to mind'. As for
> Crowds, Players and Wages, well I think they are linked, unless you have
> good players you will not be able to draw good crowds and thanks to
> Maurice Lindsay good players now cost the earth, the way the league is
> structured at the moment with Murdochs money being distributed uevenly
> amongst the clubs this is seemingly a situation the lower division clubs
> will have to live with unless they snap up local talent, something which
> Paris, Newcastle and Barcelona will struggle to do unless the expansion
> is at grass roots level and not thrown in at the deep end..

        I did not argue development in my previous post. The reason for
that is because I completely agree with all your points on the matter.
Proper grass roots development does need to occur in the schools and lower
league comps.
        What I did argue was the general statement that just because these
teams have been around for 101 years and "nurtured the game to where
it is today" they deserve more consideration than teams (or potential
teams) that haven't. In reply to this I pointed out exactly how well these
sides had "nurtured" the game. What the traditional clubs have done for
the development of the game in over a century is blatantly pathetic and for
that they shouldn't be owed anything. As for age, whether a club is 100 or
10 it shouldn't make any difference, if they are unviable or "undesirable"
(ie. one of too many sides in one district or based in a small population
centre) in a national or international comp such as SL then they shouldn't
be in it. This comes back to the questions I asked at the top of my
previous post.

Quote:
> >Catchya round, Leigh

> I Wish

        I'm sure you do, but then my time is limited so you'll have to
book well in advance (and pay the appropriate booking fee).

Catchya round, Leigh

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Leigh T. Gillespie                  *    "It takes leather balls *
* Phone - Australia (077) 791219      *     to play Rugby!"                *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *