the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by michael anderso » Sat, 06 Apr 2013 02:54:25


Today I met a senior med student(heading off to do radiology in another program in the southeast) who will graduate with $378k in debt(small amount of undergrad debt, 90%+ med school debt).  And she did recieve a small amount of help from parents too!  She is out of state(so pays insane tuition rather than just really expensive tuition instate), but still.  This is something I have heard again and again across the country.  This is sort of an extreme example(because out of state tuition at some state med schools is even higher than most private schools), but it's not that extreme.  Many private med schools now have tuition alone of 40k(and with mandatory fees, tests, etc the real tutition is more like 45k)....x 4 years + a small amount to live on, and you can see that(even before interest) 260k is not out of the ordinary for just med school alone. The reality is that since it is fairly difficult for people in her field to moonlight during residency and the interest rate on those loans is mostly 6.8%, she will owe something like 500k before finishing her residency....maybe 550k or so if she does a fellowship.  That's ridiculous.  

The fact is that colleges, grad schools, professional schools, etc are not controlling their costs.  It is too expensive.  When I started college in the late 90s, tuition(even for people with NO scholarships at all) was maybe 2000 dollars per semester for a full load of classes.  4000 for the whole year...again with NO scholarship money at all.  Now it's over triple that at the same place.  Costs shouldn't have risen 300% in that time period.

Same for med school....that was not that long ago so I borrowed a lot of money(even going to the large state school which was one of the cheapest in the whole country), but not close to what people are borrowing now...and that not many years ago!  I watched as year by year my tuition and fees spiraled up....one year the increase was 9%.  9%???? It's the same all across the country too.....I'm just it's the same for law schools, pharmacy schools, business schools....when will the insanity stop?  

 
 
 

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by Futbol Pha » Sat, 06 Apr 2013 03:20:47

Quote:

> Today I met a senior med student(heading off to do radiology in another program in the southeast) who will graduate with $378k in debt(small amount of undergrad debt, 90%+ med school debt).  And she did recieve a small amount of help from parents too!  She is out of state(so pays insane tuition rather than just really expensive tuition instate), but still.  This is something I have heard again and again across the country.  This is sort of an extreme example(because out of state tuition at some state med schools is even higher than most private schools), but it's not that extreme.  Many private med schools now have tuition alone of 40k(and with mandatory fees, tests, etc the real tutition is more like 45k)....x 4 years + a small amount to live on, and you can see that(even before interest) 260k is not out of the ordinary for just med school alone. The reality is that since it is fairly difficult for people in her field to moonlight during residency and the interest rate on those loans is mostly 6.8%, she will owe something like 500k before finishing her residency....maybe 550k or so if she does a fellowship.  That's ridiculous.  

> The fact is that colleges, grad schools, professional schools, etc are not controlling their costs.  It is too expensive.  When I started college in the late 90s, tuition(even for people with NO scholarships at all) was maybe 2000 dollars per semester for a full load of classes.  4000 for the whole year...again with NO scholarship money at all.  Now it's over triple that at the same place.  Costs shouldn't have risen 300% in that time period.

> Same for med school....that was not that long ago so I borrowed a lot of money(even going to the large state school which was one of the cheapest in the whole country), but not close to what people are borrowing now...and that not many years ago!  I watched as year by year my tuition and fees spiraled up....one year the increase was 9%.  9%???? It's the same all across the country too.....I'm just it's the same for law schools, pharmacy schools, business schools....when will the insanity stop?

$378K is a lot, even with out-of-state tuition, fees, etc.  I hope for her sake she earns a big salary, because she doesn't seem to have much money sense.

 
 
 

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by Emperor Wonko the San » Sat, 06 Apr 2013 03:56:32

Quote:


> > Today I met a senior med student(heading off to do radiology in another program in the southeast) who will graduate with $378k in debt(small amount of undergrad debt, 90%+ med school debt).  And she did recieve a small amount of help from parents too!  She is out of state(so pays insane tuition rather than just really expensive tuition instate), but still.  This is something I have heard again and again across the country.  This is sort of an extreme example(because out of state tuition at some state med schools is even higher than most private schools), but it's not that extreme.  Many private med schools now have tuition alone of 40k(and with mandatory fees, tests, etc the real tutition is more like 45k)....x 4 years + a small amount to live on, and you can see that(even before interest) 260k is not out of the ordinary for just med school alone. The reality is that since it is fairly difficult for people in her field to moonlight during residency and the interest rate on those loans is mostly 6.8%, she will owe something like 500k before finishing her residency....maybe 550k or so if she does a fellowship.  That's ridiculous.  

> > The fact is that colleges, grad schools, professional schools, etc are not controlling their costs.  It is too expensive.  When I started college in the late 90s, tuition(even for people with NO scholarships at all) was maybe 2000 dollars per semester for a full load of classes.  4000 for the whole year...again with NO scholarship money at all.  Now it's over triple that at the same place.  Costs shouldn't have risen 300% in that time period.

> > Same for med school....that was not that long ago so I borrowed a lot of money(even going to the large state school which was one of the cheapest in the whole country), but not close to what people are borrowing now...and that not many years ago!  I watched as year by year my tuition and fees spiraled up....one year the increase was 9%.  9%???? It's the same all across the country too.....I'm just it's the same for law schools, pharmacy schools, business schools....when will the insanity stop?

> $378K is a lot, even with out-of-state tuition, fees, etc.  I hope for her sake she earns a big salary, because she doesn't seem to have much money sense.

~$50K a year for living expenses is living pretty well for a student.

Doug

 
 
 

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by dre » Sat, 06 Apr 2013 04:24:20

Quote:

> Today I met a senior med student(heading off to do radiology in another program in the southeast) who will graduate with $378k in debt(small amount of undergrad debt, 90%+ med school debt).  And she did recieve a small amount of help from parents too!  She is out of state(so pays insane tuition rather than just really expensive tuition instate), but still.  This is something I have heard again and again across the country.  This is sort of an extreme example(because out of state tuition at some state med schools is even higher than most private schools), but it's not that extreme.  Many private med schools now have tuition alone of 40k(and with mandatory fees, tests, etc the real tutition is more like 45k)....x 4 years + a small amount to live on, and you can see that(even before interest) 260k is not out of the ordinary for just med school alone. The reality is that since it is fairly difficult for people in her field to moonlight during residency and the interest rate on those loans is mostly 6.8%, she will owe something like 500k before finishing her residency....maybe 550k or so if she does a fellowship.  That's ridiculous.  

> The fact is that colleges, grad schools, professional schools, etc are not controlling their costs.  It is too expensive.  When I started college in the late 90s, tuition(even for people with NO scholarships at all) was maybe 2000 dollars per semester for a full load of classes.  4000 for the whole year...again with NO scholarship money at all.  Now it's over triple that at the same place.  Costs shouldn't have risen 300% in that time period.

> Same for med school....that was not that long ago so I borrowed a lot of money(even going to the large state school which was one of the cheapest in the whole country), but not close to what people are borrowing now...and that not many years ago!  I watched as year by year my tuition and fees spiraled up....one year the increase was 9%.  9%???? It's the same all across the country too.....I'm just it's the same for law schools, pharmacy schools, business schools....when will the insanity stop?

It won't stop.  The reason higher education used to be so reasonably-priced--free, even, in several cases--was because of *massive* state and local government subsidization.

But hey, now we have a proliferation of for-profit universities and escalating tuitions!  Yay free market!

 
 
 

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by J.C. Watt » Sat, 06 Apr 2013 04:24:52

If you truly do care about this, I just finished this:

http://www.demos.org/publication/great-cost-shift-how-higher-educatio...

It is a multitude of factors...decrease in state support, decrease in
federal financial aid, bureaucratic increase, additional mandates from
federal and state governments, etc.

 
 
 

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by Tom Enrigh » Sat, 06 Apr 2013 09:12:17


Quote:

> > Today I met a senior med student(heading off to do radiology in another program in the southeast) who will graduate with $378k in debt(small amount of undergrad debt, 90%+ med school debt). ?And she did recieve a small amount of help from parents too! ?She is out of state(so pays insane tuition rather than just really expensive tuition instate), but still. ?This is something I have heard again and again across the country. ?This is sort of an extreme example(because out of state tuition at some state med schools is even higher than most private schools), but it's not that extreme. ?Many private med schools now have tuition alone of 40k(and with mandatory fees, tests, etc the real tutition is more like 45k)....x 4 years + a small amount to live on, and you can see that(even before interest) 260k is not out of the ordinary for just med school alone. The reality is that since it is fairly difficult for people in her field to moonlight during residency and the interest rate on those loans is mostly 6.8%, she will owe something like 500k before finishing her residency....maybe 550k or so if she does a fellowship. ?That's ridiculous.

> > The fact is that colleges, grad schools, professional schools, etc are not controlling their costs. ?It is too expensive. ?When I started college in the late 90s, tuition(even for people with NO scholarships at all) was maybe 2000 dollars per semester for a full load of classes. ?4000 for the whole year...again with NO scholarship money at all. ?Now it's over triple that at the same place. ?Costs shouldn't have risen 300% in that time period.

> > Same for med school....that was not that long ago so I borrowed a lot of money(even going to the large state school which was one of the cheapest in the whole country), but not close to what people are borrowing now...and that not many years ago! ?I watched as year by year my tuition and fees spiraled up....one year the increase was 9%. ?9%???? It's the same all across the country too.....I'm just it's the same for law schools, pharmacy schools, business schools....when will the insanity stop?
> It won't stop. ?The reason higher education used to be so reasonably-priced--free,
> even, in several cases--was because of *massive* state and local government subsidization.

No, regardless of subsidies university costs have always been
increasing.  There is plenty of data that shows that tuition subsidies
actually INCREASE the cost of tuition.

http://SportToday.org/

Quote:
> But hey, now we have a proliferation of for-profit universities and escalating tuitions!
> Yay free market!

From an article I posted earlier today.

http://SportToday.org/

"Today, the school systems in 20 states employ more non-teachers than
teachers. The Friedman Foundation for Educational Choice reports that
between 1950 and 2009, while the number of K-12 students increased 96
percent, full-time-equivalent school employees increased 386 percent.
The number of teachers increased 252 percent, but the number of
bureaucrats including consciousness-raising sensitivity enforcers
and other non-teachers increased 702 percent. The report says
states
could have saved more than $24?billion annually if non-teaching staff
had grown only as fast as student enrollment. And Americans wonder
why
their generous K-12 financing (higher per pupil than all but three of
the 34 Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development nations)
has done so little to improve reading, math and science scores."

"Higher education, from which much of such diversity and sensitivity
nonsense trickles down, cries poverty while spending lavishly on
administrative overhead irrelevant to its teaching and research
missions. The Manhattan Institutes Heather Mac Donald notes that in
2011, while the University of California at San Diego was pruning
academic offerings, it created a vice chancellor for equity,
diversity and inclusion to augment a diversity apparatus that
included an assistant vice chancellor for diversity; faculty
advisers,
staff, graduate and undergraduate diversity coordinators and
liaisons;
a director of development for diversity initiatives; the Committee on
Gender Identity and *** Orientation Issues; the Diversity Council;
the Campus Council on Climate, Culture and Inclusion; and much more.
Perhaps tens of millions could be diverted from progressive gestures
to academic purposes by abolishing on every American campus every
administrative position whose title contains the words diversity,
equity, race, ethnicity, sustainability, green, gender,
inclusion, identity, interconnectivity, globalization,
climate, campus climate, cross-cultural or multiculturalism."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-Tom Enright

 
 
 

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by michael anderso » Sat, 06 Apr 2013 09:53:42

Quote:


> > Today I met a senior med student(heading off to do radiology in another program in the southeast) who will graduate with $378k in debt(small amount of undergrad debt, 90%+ med school debt).  And she did recieve a small amount of help from parents too!  She is out of state(so pays insane tuition rather than just really expensive tuition instate), but still.  This is something I have heard again and again across the country.  This is sort of an extreme example(because out of state tuition at some state med schools is even higher than most private schools), but it's not that extreme.  Many private med schools now have tuition alone of 40k(and with mandatory fees, tests, etc the real tutition is more like 45k)....x 4 years + a small amount to live on, and you can see that(even before interest) 260k is not out of the ordinary for just med school alone. The reality is that since it is fairly difficult for people in her field to moonlight during residency and the interest rate on those loans is mostly 6.8%, she will owe something like 500k before finishing her residency....maybe 550k or so if she does a fellowship.  That's ridiculous.  

> > The fact is that colleges, grad schools, professional schools, etc are not controlling their costs.  It is too expensive.  When I started college in the late 90s, tuition(even for people with NO scholarships at all) was maybe 2000 dollars per semester for a full load of classes.  4000 for the whole year...again with NO scholarship money at all.  Now it's over triple that at the same place.  Costs shouldn't have risen 300% in that time period.

> > Same for med school....that was not that long ago so I borrowed a lot of money(even going to the large state school which was one of the cheapest in the whole country), but not close to what people are borrowing now...and that not many years ago!  I watched as year by year my tuition and fees spiraled up....one year the increase was 9%.  9%???? It's the same all across the country too.....I'm just it's the same for law schools, pharmacy schools, business schools....when will the insanity stop?

> $378K is a lot, even with out-of-state tuition, fees, etc.  I hope for her sake she earns a big salary, because she doesn't seem to have much money sense.

well if you have 450k debt and make 400k yearly(and have a bunch of years left to earn), it's not a big deal......if you have 450k debt and make 200k, thats a problem.
 
 
 

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by michael anderso » Sat, 06 Apr 2013 09:55:06


Quote:


> > > Today I met a senior med student(heading off to do radiology in another program in the southeast) who will graduate with $378k in debt(small amount of undergrad debt, 90%+ med school debt).  And she did recieve a small amount of help from parents too!  She is out of state(so pays insane tuition rather than just really expensive tuition instate), but still.  This is something I have heard again and again across the country.  This is sort of an extreme example(because out of state tuition at some state med schools is even higher than most private schools), but it's not that extreme.  Many private med schools now have tuition alone of 40k(and with mandatory fees, tests, etc the real tutition is more like 45k)....x 4 years + a small amount to live on, and you can see that(even before interest) 260k is not out of the ordinary for just med school alone. The reality is that since it is fairly difficult for people in her field to moonlight during residency and the interest rate on those loans is mostly 6.8%, she will owe something like 500k before finishing her residency....maybe 550k or so if she does a fellowship.  That's ridiculous.  

> > > The fact is that colleges, grad schools, professional schools, etc are not controlling their costs.  It is too expensive.  When I started college in the late 90s, tuition(even for people with NO scholarships at all) was maybe 2000 dollars per semester for a full load of classes.  4000 for the whole year...again with NO scholarship money at all.  Now it's over triple that at the same place.  Costs shouldn't have risen 300% in that time period.

> > > Same for med school....that was not that long ago so I borrowed a lot of money(even going to the large state school which was one of the cheapest in the whole country), but not close to what people are borrowing now...and that not many years ago!  I watched as year by year my tuition and fees spiraled up....one year the increase was 9%.  9%???? It's the same all across the country too.....I'm just it's the same for law schools, pharmacy schools, business schools....when will the insanity stop?

> > $378K is a lot, even with out-of-state tuition, fees, etc.  I hope for her sake she earns a big salary, because she doesn't seem to have much money sense.

> ~$50K a year for living expenses is living pretty well for a student.

she didn't have anywhere close to that....they won't let you borrow that much for living expenses.  The financial aid budget allows you to borrow maybe 20-23k/year....

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> Doug

 
 
 

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by dnrap » Sat, 06 Apr 2013 14:03:02

Quote:



> > > Today I met a senior med student(heading off to do radiology in another program in the southeast) who will graduate with $378k in debt(small amount of undergrad debt, 90%+ med school debt).  And she did recieve a small amount of help from parents too!  She is out of state(so pays insane tuition rather than just really expensive tuition instate), but still.  This is something I have heard again and again across the country.  This is sort of an extreme example(because out of state tuition at some state med schools is even higher than most private schools), but it's not that extreme.  Many private med schools now have tuition alone of 40k(and with mandatory fees, tests, etc the real tutition is more like 45k)....x 4 years + a small amount to live on, and you can see that(even before interest) 260k is not out of the ordinary for just med school alone. The reality is that since it is fairly difficult for people in her field to moonlight during residency and the interest rate on those loans is mostly 6.8%, she will owe something like 500k before finishing her residency....maybe 550k or so if she does a fellowship.  That's ridiculous.  

> > > The fact is that colleges, grad schools, professional schools, etc are not controlling their costs.  It is too expensive.  When I started college in the late 90s, tuition(even for people with NO scholarships at all) was maybe 2000 dollars per semester for a full load of classes.  4000 for the whole year...again with NO scholarship money at all.  Now it's over triple that at the same place.  Costs shouldn't have risen 300% in that time period.

> > > Same for med school....that was not that long ago so I borrowed a lot of money(even going to the large state school which was one of the cheapest in the whole country), but not close to what people are borrowing now...and that not many years ago!  I watched as year by year my tuition and fees spiraled up....one year the increase was 9%.  9%???? It's the same all across the country too.....I'm just it's the same for law schools, pharmacy schools, business schools....when will the insanity stop?

> > $378K is a lot, even with out-of-state tuition, fees, etc.  I hope for her sake she earns a big salary, because she doesn't seem to have much money sense.

> well if you have 450k debt and make 400k yearly(and have a bunch of years left to earn), it's not a big deal......if you have 450k debt and make 200k, thats a problem.

200K a year is 16K a month. 450K debt to pay it off in 10 years is 4K a month So 1/4 of your salary will pay it off and you still have 10K a month to live on. Dose not seem like much of a problem to me.
 
 
 

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by michael anderso » Sat, 06 Apr 2013 20:36:33

Quote:




> > > > Today I met a senior med student(heading off to do radiology in another program in the southeast) who will graduate with $378k in debt(small amount of undergrad debt, 90%+ med school debt).  And she did recieve a small amount of help from parents too!  She is out of state(so pays insane tuition rather than just really expensive tuition instate), but still.  This is something I have heard again and again across the country.  This is sort of an extreme example(because out of state tuition at some state med schools is even higher than most private schools), but it's not that extreme.  Many private med schools now have tuition alone of 40k(and with mandatory fees, tests, etc the real tutition is more like 45k)....x 4 years + a small amount to live on, and you can see that(even before interest) 260k is not out of the ordinary for just med school alone. The reality is that since it is fairly difficult for people in her field to moonlight during residency and the interest rate on those loans is mostly 6.8%, she will owe something like 500k before finishing her residency....maybe 550k or so if she does a fellowship.  That's ridiculous.  

> > > > The fact is that colleges, grad schools, professional schools, etc are not controlling their costs.  It is too expensive.  When I started college in the late 90s, tuition(even for people with NO scholarships at all) was maybe 2000 dollars per semester for a full load of classes.  4000 for the whole year...again with NO scholarship money at all.  Now it's over triple that at the same place.  Costs shouldn't have risen 300% in that time period.

> > > > Same for med school....that was not that long ago so I borrowed a lot of money(even going to the large state school which was one of the cheapest in the whole country), but not close to what people are borrowing now...and that not many years ago!  I watched as year by year my tuition and fees spiraled up....one year the increase was 9%.  9%???? It's the same all across the country too.....I'm just it's the same for law schools, pharmacy schools, business schools....when will the insanity stop?

> > > $378K is a lot, even with out-of-state tuition, fees, etc.  I hope for her sake she earns a big salary, because she doesn't seem to have much money sense.

> > well if you have 450k debt and make 400k yearly(and have a bunch of years left to earn), it's not a big deal......if you have 450k debt and make 200k, thats a problem.

> 200K a year is 16K a month. 450K debt to pay it off in 10 years is 4K a month So 1/4 of your salary will pay it off and you still have 10K a month to live on. Dose not seem like much of a problem to me.

  There is thing thing called taxes on the 200k/year.  More importantly, there is also this thing called interest on the 450k debt.  the first year of payback the first 30k on that debt she pays back is all interest and doesn't go to the principal at all.....if she only paud 4k a month, she would knock off less than 20k on the principal.  Unless obamacare is much worse than we all think(which is possible), she should eventually make a good bit more than 200k, but you never know....and if that happens, that debt(a debt to salary ratio of > 2/1) is not favorable.
 
 
 

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by dnrap » Sat, 06 Apr 2013 21:42:37

Quote:





> > > > > Today I met a senior med student(heading off to do radiology in another program in the southeast) who will graduate with $378k in debt(small amount of undergrad debt, 90%+ med school debt).  And she did recieve a small amount of help from parents too!  She is out of state(so pays insane tuition rather than just really expensive tuition instate), but still.  This is something I have heard again and again across the country.  This is sort of an extreme example(because out of state tuition at some state med schools is even higher than most private schools), but it's not that extreme.  Many private med schools now have tuition alone of 40k(and with mandatory fees, tests, etc the real tutition is more like 45k)....x 4 years + a small amount to live on, and you can see that(even before interest) 260k is not out of the ordinary for just med school alone. The reality is that since it is fairly difficult for people in her field to moonlight during residency and the interest rate on those loans is mostly 6.8%, she will owe something like 500k before finishing her residency....maybe 550k or so if she does a fellowship.  That's ridiculous.  

> > > > > The fact is that colleges, grad schools, professional schools, etc are not controlling their costs.  It is too expensive.  When I started college in the late 90s, tuition(even for people with NO scholarships at all) was maybe 2000 dollars per semester for a full load of classes.  4000 for the whole year...again with NO scholarship money at all.  Now it's over triple that at the same place.  Costs shouldn't have risen 300% in that time period.

> > > > > Same for med school....that was not that long ago so I borrowed a lot of money(even going to the large state school which was one of the cheapest in the whole country), but not close to what people are borrowing now...and that not many years ago!  I watched as year by year my tuition and fees spiraled up....one year the increase was 9%.  9%???? It's the same all across the country too.....I'm just it's the same for law schools, pharmacy schools, business schools....when will the insanity stop?

> > > > $378K is a lot, even with out-of-state tuition, fees, etc.  I hope for her sake she earns a big salary, because she doesn't seem to have much money sense.

> > > well if you have 450k debt and make 400k yearly(and have a bunch of years left to earn), it's not a big deal......if you have 450k debt and make 200k, thats a problem.

> > 200K a year is 16K a month. 450K debt to pay it off in 10 years is 4K a month So 1/4 of your salary will pay it off and you still have 10K a month to live on. Dose not seem like much of a problem to me.

>   There is thing thing called taxes on the 200k/year.  More importantly, there is also this thing called interest on the 450k debt.  the first year of payback the first 30k on that debt she pays back is all interest and doesn't go to the principal at all.....if she only paud 4k a month, she would knock off less than 20k on the principal.  Unless obamacare is much worse than we all think(which is possible), she should eventually make a good bit more than 200k, but you never know....and if that happens, that debt(a debt to salary ratio of > 2/1) is not favorable.

So you treat it like a home loan. Paying off a 450K loan is not "a problem" for someone making 200K a year and is in their 20's. Now if a person is in their 50's and have a 450K loan to pay off then that is "a problem"
 
 
 

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by michael anderso » Sat, 06 Apr 2013 22:03:33

well, she wouldn't be in her 20s but her 30s. Additionally, home mortgage interest rates are not 6.8% but more like 2.75-3%....huge difference.

It is a big problem to have 378k debt(and growing with interest rolling) at 6.8% that you can't start paying off until another 5-5.5 years....if even after that time period she is only making 200k.

 
 
 

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by J. Hugh Sulliv » Sat, 06 Apr 2013 23:58:41

On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 10:54:25 -0700 (PDT), michael anderson

Quote:

>Today I met a senior med student(heading off to do radiology in another pro=
>gram in the southeast) who will graduate with $378k in debt(small amount of=
> undergrad debt, 90%+ med school debt).  

Our d-i-l is taking our 3rd grandson (a junior) to look at colleges
(OU, Tulsa, OSU, Baylor and Texas so far). They will also visit TAMU
and LSU and maybe GaTech, Bama and the Barn. If I heard correctly UT
tuition is $50,000 and they only admit the top 7%.

His parents did the smart thing - they have some sort of investment
that pays tuition for both sons at a TX school and the equivalent in
any other state.

Hugh

 
 
 

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by J. Hugh Sulliv » Sun, 07 Apr 2013 00:03:38



Quote:
>It won't stop.  The reason higher education used to be so reasonably-priced=
>--free, even, in several cases--was because of *massive* state and local go=
>vernment subsidization.

>But hey, now we have a proliferation of for-profit universities and escalat=
>ing tuitions!  Yay free market!

A tour in the military will still pay a lot of the cost, a 30 on the
ACT will find a lot of scholarship money and top athletes - well, nuff
said.

Hugh

 
 
 

the cost of school continues to increase at mindboggling rates.....

Post by Kyle T. Jone » Sun, 07 Apr 2013 08:29:40


Quote:
> Today I met a senior med student(heading off to do radiology in another program in the southeast) who will graduate with $378k in debt(small amount of undergrad debt, 90%+ med school debt).  And she did recieve a small amount of help from parents too!  She is out of state(so pays insane tuition rather than just really expensive tuition instate), but still.  This is something I have heard again and again across the country.  This is sort of an extreme example(because out of state tuition at some state med schools is even higher than most private schools), but it's not that extreme.  Many private med schools now have tuition alone of 40k(and with mandatory fees, tests, etc the real tutition is more like 45k)....x 4 years + a small amount to live on, and you can see that(even before interest) 260k is not out of the ordinary for just med school alone. The reality is that since it is fairly difficult for people in her field to moonlight during residency and the interest rate on those loa

ns is mostly 6.8%, she will owe something like 500k before finishing her residency....maybe 550k or so if she does a fellowship.  That's ridiculous.

Quote:

> The fact is that colleges, grad schools, professional schools, etc are not controlling their costs.  It is too expensive.  When I started college in the late 90s, tuition(even for people with NO scholarships at all) was maybe 2000 dollars per semester for a full load of classes.  4000 for the whole year...again with NO scholarship money at all.  Now it's over triple that at the same place.  Costs shouldn't have risen 300% in that time period.

> Same for med school....that was not that long ago so I borrowed a lot of money(even going to the large state school which was one of the cheapest in the whole country), but not close to what people are borrowing now...and that not many years ago!  I watched as year by year my tuition and fees spiraled up....one year the increase was 9%.  9%???? It's the same all across the country too.....I'm just it's the same for law schools, pharmacy schools, business schools....when will the insanity stop?

When they certify for those things based on knowledge and skill rather
than degree, I guess.

If all it took to be a lawyer was passing the bar, for instance - same
sort of standardized tests for accountants, teachers (including college
profs), therapists, MDs, etc - all your occupations that require some
sort of degree before the state will allow you to "practice".

Probably be a total disaster.  Those would have to be some tests.

Would certainly have interesting ramifications in terms of our
educational system.  I don't know that sitting in lecture halls for two
years added much value to my education - labs sure, individual work
toward projects/exams, sure.  I'm guessing I would miss both access to
professors/peers and the structure (although you can put together a
network of similarly interested folks pretty damn easily online these
days) - at times I needed the demands of deadlines to get things done.

As always, I'll argue for the value of the "college experience" as well.
  In an interesting variation on NIMBY, I've talked to lots of folks who
argue the value and abundant opportunities in trade schools and the like
- but to a person, *their* kids were certainly going to college.

Shifting gears a bit - Udacity is doing a pretty good job in terms of
creating a viable model, IMO - I've enjoyed a handful of their online
courses.  They're doing more outside of CS courses as well now - some
Math and Physics content as well.

They've also hosting some intro type courses that can be taken for free
or for a fee that counts towards credit in the California State
University system, IIRC.

We can certainly serve up education more efficiently.  Don't worry,
smrat folks are figuring it out for us.

Cheers.

--
Too bad. Read the manual. If this stuff were easy
we would not get the big bucks. -- Michael Press, June 1st 2012