END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

Post by RaginPag » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 05:21:40


He sounds more like a Reagan democrat than some sort of converted
conservative.

He does not have a good grasp on what is really going on.

"Today it is liberals, not conservatives, who endeavor to defend civil
liberties
from the state"

total BS.  Both sides have defended civil liberties, it merely depends
on which liberties you are talking about.  Both sides espouse the
interference of government in our life, just in different ways.

"Like Brownshirts, the new conservatives take personally any criticism
of their
leader and his policies. To be a critic is to be an enemy. I went
overnight from
being an object of conservative adulation to one of derision when I
wrote that
the US invasion of Iraq was a 'strategic blunder.'

I hear plenty of conservatives that are well thought of that have
criticized Bush in this regard.  Could it be that his "conservative
adulation" had more to do with him being a liberal that was trumpeting
similar views to the conservatives on specific topics at the time, than
him actually being a conservative?  Yeah, I think so.

"Because of the triumph of delusional "new conservatives" and the
demise of the
liberal media, this war is different from the Vietnam war. As more
Americans are
killed and maimed in the pointless carnage, more Americans have a
powerful
emotional stake that the war not be lost and not be in vain. Trapped in
***
and unable to admit mistake, a reckless administration will escalate."

Does this guy have any credibility at all?  He's right, we ARE trapped.
What does admitting the mistake have to do with anything?  A pull out
at this stage would be a bigger disaster than going over there to begin
with.  A reckless administration escalating?  ridiculous.

"Not so long ago I would have identified the liberal media as the New
York Times
and Washington Post, CNN and the three TV networks, and National Public
Radio.
But both the Times and the Post fell for the Bush administration's lies
about
WMD and supported the US invasion of Iraq. "

Fell for Bush administration lies?  What a hack.  So now our newspapers
are supposed to just print the opposite of what the CIA and the
administration say?  How were they supposed to disprove this?  What an
idiot.

Thanks, John, we are all poorer for having read this steaming pile of
you know what.

Brent Page

 
 
 

END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

Post by Unclaimed Mysterie » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 06:00:55

RaginPage wrote in part:

Quote:
> He sounds more like a Reagan democrat than some sort of converted
> conservative.

> He does not have a good grasp on what is really going on.

>  What an
> idiot.

> Thanks, John, we are all poorer for having read this steaming pile of
> you know what.

Aren't you going to tell him he needs to ADju5T H15 M3DZ?

--
It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net

Of course I went to law school. - Warren Zevon, "Mr. Bad Example"

 
 
 

END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

Post by Unclaimed Mysterie » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 06:12:22

RaginPage wrote in part:

Quote:

> Does this guy have any credibility at all?  He's right, we ARE trapped.
> What does admitting the mistake have to do with anything?  

It's a necessary precursor to sensible policy-making for a rfscking
change. Also, if we do not get honesty from government, we cannot call
ourselves free. If we do not demand honesty from the government, we
don't deserve to be called free, and we will be as culpable as it is for
its acts.

Corry
--
It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net

Of course I went to law school. - Warren Zevon, "Mr. Bad Example"

 
 
 

END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

Post by RaginPag » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 06:32:26

OR you can admit the mistake and have the whole world instead of just
half of it convinced you don't know what you are doing.  Why compound
that mistake?  Why forsake everyone?

Honesty from the government is controlled by the voting public.  You
want honesty in government?  Start voting for honest people instead of
these clowns.  The people that buy into the popularity contest we have
today are far more responsible for this problem than one
administration, or one conflict.  How many people get involved in local
politics, both voting and actually knowing something about it?  Some of
these clowns come up through the ranks because of indifference at the
local level.  Our country is free, and we've exercised that freedom to
severely corrupt our government.  We've done it to ourselves.  Quit
blaming the people we put there.

Brent Page

 
 
 

END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

Post by Cornhuskeres » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 06:46:18

Quote:

> OR you can admit the mistake and have the whole world instead of just
> half of it convinced you don't know what you are doing.  Why compound
> that mistake?  Why forsake everyone?

> Honesty from the government is controlled by the voting public.  You
> want honesty in government?  Start voting for honest people instead of
> these clowns.  The people that buy into the popularity contest we have
> today are far more responsible for this problem than one
> administration, or one conflict.  How many people get involved in
> local politics, both voting and actually knowing something about it?
> Some of these clowns come up through the ranks because of
> indifference at the local level.  Our country is free, and we've
> exercised that freedom to severely corrupt our government.  We've
> done it to ourselves.  Quit blaming the people we put there.

> Brent Page

POTY

~~Geri~~
(Sanctimonious Cornhusker Beeyotch)

"I pretend to give a shit because I care."

 
 
 

END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

Post by Unclaimed Mysterie » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 07:03:47

Quote:

>>OR you can admit the mistake and have the whole world instead of just
>>half of it convinced you don't know what you are doing.  Why compound
>>that mistake?  Why forsake everyone?

LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-I-CAN'T-HEAR-YOU-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-
LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-I-CAN'T-HEAR-YOU-I-CAN'T-HEAR-YOU-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA is
certainly an innovative approach to foreign policy, I'll grant you that.

--
It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net

Of course I went to law school. - Warren Zevon, "Mr. Bad Example"

 
 
 

END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

Post by RaginPag » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 07:21:01

It's called diplomacy.  Something many of you claim Bush is totally
inept at.  Shouldn't you know something about it before pointing a
finger like that, though?

Think about it.  The whole reason they are in this mess to begin with
is honesty.  They were honest about their intelligence being faulty,
and how has that benefitted them?  All it has done is turn even more
people agains the U.S.  It doesn't make sense diplomatically to keep
going down that road.  Yet they've been totall honest about
discontinuing the search for WMD, and further even admit that they
don't believe any are there.  So I agree they've made terrible
decisions diplomacy-wise, but not for the same reasons.

There's a difference between being completely dishonest, and being
diplomatic.

If you are in a job interview and you talk about your experience with
something, and they ask you a question that makes it clear that your
experience isn't as great as you hae portrayed, what do you do?

Come clean and say "Well actually, I don't know that much about it."
Or do you do a little damage control and skirt the issue a bit?

The problem with being brutally honest, is that people end up getting
the idea that you kow NOTHING about it whether that is true or not.
There's no going back at that point.  Your credibility is completely
gone.

Once Bush's administration admits they made a mistake, they will never
be able to justify any further military action again, whether it's
needed or not.  It's kind of a moot point though, in that they have
already destroyed all credibility.  Regretable.

It's absolutely foolish to back ourselves into that kind of corner.
Brent Page

 
 
 

END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

Post by Unclaimed Mysterie » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:21:26

Quote:

> It's called diplomacy.  Something many of you claim Bush is totally
> inept at.  

 > Shouldn't you know something about it before pointing a

Quote:
> finger like that, though?

This is rsfc. HA!

Quote:
> Think about it.  The whole reason they are in this mess to begin with
> is honesty.  They were honest about their intelligence being faulty,
> and how has that benefitted them?  All it has done is turn even more
> people agains the U.S.  

<Konspeericy>
Without the cooperation of the CIA in planting evidence in Iraq like
they were told to do, the country was made to look foolish. D0N'T U CEEE!?!?
</Konspeericy>

Just thought I'd throw that in there, I don't even believe it, and I'm
an ENTHUSIAST($1 to TMWWT). Now, back to seriousness, already in progress.

Quote:
> It doesn't make sense diplomatically to keep
> going down that road.  Yet they've been totall honest about
> discontinuing the search for WMD, and further even admit that they
> don't believe any are there.  So I agree they've made terrible
> decisions diplomacy-wise, but not for the same reasons.

> There's a difference between being completely dishonest, and being
> diplomatic.

The marketing mindset of the Bush Administration is well-documented.
"You don't roll out a new product in August," said Andy Card in 2002 of
the Iraq invasion, as though it were a brand of deodorant.

Diplomacy is not marketing, and can't be expected to reverse such a
stark collection of misrepresentations. It's just asking too much of
even the most skilled and SUAVE diplomats.

Quote:
> If you are in a job interview and you talk about your experience with
> something, and they ask you a question that makes it clear that your
> experience isn't as great as you hae portrayed, what do you do?

> Come clean and say "Well actually, I don't know that much about it."
> Or do you do a little damage control and skirt the issue a bit?

Sigh. If only we were at that point. "Skirting an issue" is not a
synonym for "blatant and repeated lying."

Also, switching explanations in a job interview like what was done to
justify the Iraq invasion would get your interview terminated rather
quickly. "I wrote that code in FORTRAN because it was a house standard.
I mean because it was required by the customer. I mean because I want to
spread the cause of FORTRAN througout the world. It still rocks, you know!"

Quote:
> The problem with being brutally honest, is that people end up getting
> the idea that you kow NOTHING about it whether that is true or not.
> There's no going back at that point.  Your credibility is completely
> gone.
> Once Bush's administration admits they made a mistake, they will never
> be able to justify any further military action again, whether it's
> needed or not.  It's kind of a moot point though, in that they have
> already destroyed all credibility.  Regretable.

> It's absolutely foolish to back ourselves into that kind of corner.
> Brent Page

You're describing something like Kissinger's pragmatism, and many smrat
people believe in it. Seems like a strange fit for a moralistic
administration such as Bush's though.

Corry
--
It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net

Of course I went to law school. - Warren Zevon, "Mr. Bad Example"

 
 
 

END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

Post by Trevor Zion Bauknigh » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:59:14


Quote:

> local level.  Our country is free, and we've exercised that freedom to
> severely corrupt our government.  We've done it to ourselves.  Quit
> blaming the people we put there.

I'm not blaming the people "we" put there.  I'm blaming the people that
people other than myself and those who agree with me put there.  And the
people that put them there.  That's who I blame.

--
Trev

"Every Democratic Senator is to the right of Kerry..including
Kucinich." - C. Beauchamp

 
 
 

END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

Post by RaginPag » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 00:48:25

That's idiotic.  My point is you need to quit blaming and ***ing, and
do something.  Unless you are extremely active in working to get hard
working honest people in public office, you aren't doing anything.
Whining about how the country is full of stupid people isn't going to
help.  I'm not doing anything right now either, but I'm not going to
*** about it.  I'm actually going to start doing something.

All you people telling third party voters they are wasting their vote,
are part of the problem.  All you people voting for the lesser evil,
are part of the problem.  If you don't believe in your candidate, you
shouldn't be voting for them.  

Brent Page

 
 
 

END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

Post by Tony » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 01:38:51

  So essentially we have one far right ahole claiming to be better than the
other far right aholes. A hole is a hole, and most aholes are Brown.

 
 
 

END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

Post by Paranoid Dehumanized Narcissis » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 04:23:35


Quote:
> All you people telling third party voters they are wasting their vote,
> are part of the problem.  All you people voting for the lesser evil,
> are part of the problem.  If you don't believe in your candidate, you
> shouldn't be voting for them.

Yes, and all you blackjack players who go along with The Man and stop
playing when you exceed 21 are part of the problem too.

--
Paranoid Dehumanized Narcissist

 
 
 

END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

Post by RaginPag » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 05:07:09

Yeah, that's the same thing.

Brent Page

 
 
 

END-TIMERS & NEO-CONS: The End Of Conservatives

Post by Trevor Zion Bauknigh » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 05:19:56


Quote:

> Yeah, that's the same thing.

Ragin,

Nobody can tell what you're responding to.

--
Trev

"Every Democratic Senator is to the right of Kerry..including
Kucinich." - C. Beauchamp