Timing & Finish Order (was: Re: Misty)

Timing & Finish Order (was: Re: Misty)

Post by Adam Brid » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00


I don't see an underwater finish as being an argument against the
underwater fly as Misty Hyman is performing the stroke.

On other issues regarding timing:

There are ways to deal with the situation where the primary timing (a
touchpad in your example) and the button backup fail.

The rules require a mechanical (okay -- manually operated stop watch)
timing device for each lane which is actuated on the starting signal.

If that is the ONLY time available for the lane then the Referee uses that
time, along with data about the previous relationships between button
time, watch time, and touchpad time, to compute a time for the swimmer.
There's a good chunk of the USS rules (102.17.5 and 102.17.6) which deal
with these issues.

A more likely challenge happens when there's a wide dispersal in times.
Using a Colorado systems the times may come in like:

Pad     1:18.44
But 1   1:18.20
But 2   1:18.64
But 3   1:18.12
Watch   1:18.35

Which usually means the referee wanders out to the lane timers and asks
what may have happened (being friendly because these are, almost all the
time, volunteers who had to be cajoled down from the stands).

Also, the starter/referee do across the board order of finish judging and
those observations can be used to work with the times.  And coaches
watches may also be used as guidance as well.

It's a BIG no-no to deprive an athlete of a time for a swim.

Adam Bridge

 
 
 

Timing & Finish Order (was: Re: Misty)

Post by Jill Spetoske » Fri, 21 Jun 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>Which usually means the referee wanders out to the lane timers and asks
>what may have happened (being friendly because these are, almost all the
>time, volunteers who had to be cajoled down from the stands).

>Also, the starter/referee do across the board order of finish judging and
>those observations can be used to work with the times.  And coaches
>watches may also be used as guidance as well.

And the ref can pick places even if the back-up times are a little bit "off". (or so it may seem)
At Women's NCAA Division 1's this year, they had a pad problem, and had to go to the back up watches for one of the lanes. The Georg=
ia team (I think) wound up placed above someone on a close judge's decision even though the hand-held manual time said they were slo=
wer than the other team.

The absolute worst case I've ever seen was swimming at a small invitational up at Ferris State where the meet date coincided with fa=
ll break for students.  In short, there weren't enough timers to cover even six lanes, and they never thought of asking parents/spec=
tators for help.  The timing system died in a mid-level 500 heat, and they ended up asking the coaches for times on their swimmers.
Granted, it was only a "let's see what we have this year" sort of meet, and we weren't even really keeping score, but it was  not a =
good thing to have happen.

Jill Marie


 
 
 

Timing & Finish Order (was: Re: Misty)

Post by Dave Bro » Tue, 25 Jun 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
>...
>The absolute worst case...
>The timing system died in a mid-level 500 heat, and they ended up asking the coaches for
>times on their swimmers....

>Jill Marie

The absolute worst case I recall was during a time trial at a taper meet--venue shall remain
nameless--where we were trying to qualify a relay team for NJO 800 free.  We had four
swimmers doing a 200 free time trial, with parents timing for their swimmer.  The timing
console failed to start, and the operator didn't know enough to start it manually.  What's
worse, one of the parents watch failed to start, so there was no time for that lane, even
though the swimmer in that lane almost surely swam fast enough for the four times to make
the relay cut.  The ref, trying to be a nice guy, offered to let the kid have a time from
the coach's watch, and was willing to have it OVC'd.  Our coach, needless to say, refused
the OVC.  I never respected the judgement of that referee again, although I did think he was
a "nice guy".

--
Dave Brown   Austin, TX

 
 
 

Timing & Finish Order (was: Re: Misty)

Post by Jim Coope » Thu, 27 Jun 1996 04:00:00

The Referee does not have the authority to offer an OVC. He can
recommend to the OVC chairman, but that person has a  set of rules
he/she must follow irrespective of how nice the referee is. This nice
ref had already screwed up big time by not seeing that there was
sufficient backup for all swimmers. When I referee a distance swim, I
alwasy start my own watch and using splits get a finish time on each
lane in case of utter disaster. Of course, if the timing system didn't
start, the starter should have stopped the race.
The operator starting the conslle late would have preserved places but
not times unless it could be deduced what the lag was from reliable
data.
If a watch failed, the lane timer should have called for backup.
Jim Cooper

 
 
 

Timing & Finish Order (was: Re: Misty)

Post by Dave Bro » Sat, 29 Jun 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>The Referee does not have the authority to offer an OVC. He can
>recommend to the OVC chairman, but that person has a  set of rules
>he/she must follow irrespective of how nice the referee is. This nice
>...

Of course, an OVC writer has to write the OVC;  however, most OVCs are
written based on published times.  If the referee allows a time to be
recorded, then it will show up in the meet results, and an OVC will probably
be written.

Quote:
>The operator starting the conslle late would have preserved places but
>not times unless it could be deduced what the lag was from reliable
>data.

Had the console operator manually started the timing console, there are
rules which govern the timing correction involved using the watches of
all the lanes... as you doubtlesss know, Jim.

Quote:
>If a watch failed, the lane timer should have called for backup.
>Jim Cooper

That's normal procedure, of course, but in this case the parent didn't check
his watch to see if it started until it was time to finish the race.  I'm not
sure there was a backup watch started.  

--
Dave Brown   Austin, TX