Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by Yilan Q » Sat, 14 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Drug problem of Chinese Swimmers was a hot topic on 'rec.sport.swimming'.
a couple months ago.
Many Aussies were so active that time. Hope this time they will not be
quiet.

WL


#Naturally Australia is in a state of denial to find any excuses available. We
#are supposed to believe Upton was really sick? Upton didn't know it was a banne
d
#drug? Upton's doctor (a family doctor who knows full well the patient is a
#swimmer governed by certain *** restriction) didn't know it was a banned drug
?
#These 2 people got to come up with better lies.
#
#
#
#>
#> >>
#> >> His reason is that he took some pills given by his doctor. And his coach
#> >> says its nothing compare to China.
#> >
#> >Well, we can't blame the guy for getting sick, can we?
#>
#> Ban all cheaters from Australia.
#
#
#
#--
#
#Regards,
#
#~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#Able Wang

#~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 
 
 

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by Phil McCracke » Sun, 15 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> Drug problem of Chinese Swimmers was a hot topic on 'rec.sport.swimming'.
> a couple months ago.
> Many Aussies were so active that time. Hope this time they will not be
> quiet.

> WL

I won't be quiet at all.

Drug testing is becoming more and more stringent and not without good reason.  However,  there are
possibilities of people testing positive for banned substances present in medicines prescribed for
minor illnesses.   Most common OTC cold remedies contain banned substances so asuming that swimmers
are not immune to all illness,  it's only likely that tests wil come in positive from time to time.
That's unfortunate for the individual swimmers affected because they tend to become labelled as cheats
thereafter.  
I did say several months ago that I suspected the Chinese coaches to be the real culprits in the Chinese doping
scandal and I stil hold with that opinion.

 
 
 

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by Anto » Sun, 15 Mar 1998 04:00:00

The cross-posting of this (*** in swimming) topic is unecessary.

I have not noticed Yilan Qiu making any contributions to
rec.sport.swimming  - except for seizing any opportunity to cross-post
to Asian cultural news groups.

I can only assume that he is hoping to generate a large number of (often
pointless and offensive) arguments.

This is both BORING as well as IRRITATING!

All this means is that people have to keep waiting for all the messages
to download, and then clicking on 'Mark thread read'... or whatever.

Anton.

 
 
 

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by Macc » Sun, 15 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Quote:


> > Drug problem of Chinese Swimmers was a hot topic on 'rec.sport.swimming'.
> > a couple months ago.
> > Many Aussies were so active that time. Hope this time they will not be
> > quiet.

> > WL

> I won't be quiet at all.

> Drug testing is becoming more and more stringent and not without good reason.  However,  there are
> possibilities of people testing positive for banned substances present in medicines prescribed for
> minor illnesses.   Most common OTC cold remedies contain banned substances so asuming that swimmers
> are not immune to all illness,  it's only likely that tests wil come in positive from time to time.
> That's unfortunate for the individual swimmers affected because they tend to become labelled as cheats
> thereafter.
> I did say several months ago that I suspected the Chinese coaches to be the real culprits in the Chinese doping
> scandal and I stil hold with that opinion.

Phil,
    The possibility of an innocent being swept up in the net is indeed
high. But as Paul Turner kindly pointed out, all athletes from the club
level to the elite are urged to use care and are supplied with access to
the banned list by way of a card, with phn numbers for queries. I am
afraid the "Im innocent and never knew" line just does not wash. With
all the media attention and forums such as this a swimmer would have to
be pretty damn stupid to use that line dont you think..
   I agree with you on the chinese comment but that is not the issue
here, as far as I can tell. This is 'in-house' so to speak and drastic
steps need to be taken to stop the rot.
  Upton commented that none of his teamates rang to offer support and he
was pissed off. But what else would he expect for chrissakes. He has
tested positive in both his samples and any swimmer will not want to be
tainted by association. A sad fact of life Im afraid..

Macca
--


Sports Images. http://www.netlink.com.au/~madmacca/index.htm

 
 
 

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by Phil McCracke » Sun, 15 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> Phil,
>     The possibility of an innocent being swept up in the net is indeed
> high. But as Paul Turner kindly pointed out, all athletes from the club
> level to the elite are urged to use care and are supplied with access to
> the banned list by way of a card, with phn numbers for queries. I am
> afraid the "Im innocent and never knew" line just does not wash.

The guy was sick.  He sought medical treatment from a doctor he had an agreement with
to ensure that whatever *** he was prescribed wouldn't be any appearing on the list you mention.
The doctor,  clod that she was,  let him down.  He'll no doubt pay the price now.  Tough luck but
there are no room for errors in this field.

With

Quote:
> all the media attention and forums such as this a swimmer would have to
> be pretty damn stupid to use that line dont you think..

Not really because it's probably true.  He should take a more responsible approach
to his own affairs.

Quote:
>    I agree with you on the chinese comment but that is not the issue
> here, as far as I can tell. This is 'in-house' so to speak and drastic
> steps need to be taken to stop the rot.

I don't know what you mean.

Quote:
>   Upton commented that none of his teamates rang to offer support and he
> was pissed off. But what else would he expect for chrissakes. He has
> tested positive in both his samples and any swimmer will not want to be
> tainted by association. A sad fact of life Im afraid..

To right.  They probably hate his guts for dragging the nation's good name through the dirt.
 
 
 

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by OK Pha » Sun, 15 Mar 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
>The guy was sick.

Of course, he was sick......
 
 
 

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by Phil McCracke » Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Quote:



> >The guy was sick.

> Of course, he was sick......

Oh come off it Wild Phang!

I suppose you never get sick?

 
 
 

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by Denis Wrig » Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>  I am afraid the "Im innocent and never knew" line just does not wash
> With all the media attention and forums such as this a swimmer would
> have to be pretty damn stupid to use that line dont you think..

He'd have to be even dumber to allow himself to take such a drug in the
first place - which rather suggests he is probably guilty of trusting
bad advice rather than trying to cheat! But in the end, that makes no
difference. Australian credibility is on the line and there should be no
second chances in such circumstances. We can't have two sets of rules
and still attack drug abuse in other countries' sporting teams from some
lofty m***stance - however different the cases may be.

I'm very sorry for the kid, but in the present climate he can't expect
any mercy for his mistake. And it is *his* mistake. In the end, it's
down to him to check any medication out for himself. It's he, not the
doctor, who's going to have to fill the little bottle. It's he who's
going to bring down everything on his head if he tests positive. He
can't afford to let anyone else decide these things for him. This case
simply proves that point.

DW
--
| Dr D A Wright History Dept Uni of New England Armidale |
| NSW AUSTRALIA 2351  Ph +61 67 732479 Fax +61 67 733520 |
|____ http://SportToday.org/~arts/History/dwright.htm ___|

 
 
 

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by Phil McCracke » Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Quote:


> >  I am afraid the "Im innocent and never knew" line just does not wash
> > With all the media attention and forums such as this a swimmer would
> > have to be pretty damn stupid to use that line dont you think..

> He'd have to be even dumber to allow himself to take such a drug in the
> first place - which rather suggests he is probably guilty of trusting
> bad advice rather than trying to cheat! But in the end, that makes no
> difference. Australian credibility is on the line and there should be no
> second chances in such circumstances. We can't have two sets of rules
> and still attack drug abuse in other countries' sporting teams from some
> lofty m***stance - however different the cases may be.

> I'm very sorry for the kid, but in the present climate he can't expect
> any mercy for his mistake. And it is *his* mistake. In the end, it's
> down to him to check any medication out for himself. It's he, not the
> doctor, who's going to have to fill the little bottle. It's he who's
> going to bring down everything on his head if he tests positive. He
> can't afford to let anyone else decide these things for him. This case
> simply proves that point.

Hear, hear.
 
 
 

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by E. Godfre » Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Denis Wright

Quote:
> I'm very sorry for the kid, but in the present climate he can't expect
> any mercy for his mistake. And it is *his* mistake. In the end, it's
> down to him to check any medication out for himself. It's he, not the
> doctor, who's going to have to fill the little bottle. It's he who's
> going to bring down everything on his head if he tests positive. He
> can't afford to let anyone else decide these things for him. This case
> simply proves that point.

Oh my god!, common sense and fairplay put in an appearance.

Apparently the doctor had a comprehensive list of the banned/listed
substances. But I agree with you, if I were the swimmer, I would never
leave it up to anyone else.

Another poster commented that this swimmer said that all
his teammates had deserted him. He;s lucky they didn't beat
the ***out of him - the Australian swimming heirarchy must be
absolutely livid that this person has rightly or wrongly made them look
very silly.

E. G.

 
 
 

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by Paul Turne » Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>> > Drug problem of Chinese Swimmers was a hot topic on

'rec.sport.swimming'.

Quote:
>> > a couple months ago.
>> > Many Aussies were so active that time. Hope this time they will not be
>> > quiet.

Most Aussies are extremely anti-*** in sportand to my knowledge have never
been quiet about the subject.  I wish I could say the same for the Chinese
who never even published in there media the fact that there swimmers had
been caught smuggling enough HGH into our country to build superman!!!!

Quote:
>> However,  there are possibilities of people testing positive for banned

substances present in medicines >>prescribed for minor illnesses.   Most
common OTC cold remedies contain banned substances so asuming >>that
swimmers are not immune to all illness,  it's only likely that tests wil
come in positive from time to time.
Quote:
>> That's unfortunate for the individual swimmers affected because they tend

to become labelled as cheats

Quote:
>> thereafter.

That may well be the case if those *** were taken innocently as they all
seem to claim.

Some questions that come to mind about this whole affair are;

1.  How many professional athletes who have tested positive for ***
actually have come out and admitted that those *** were for performance
  -(few if any)
2.  How does a professional athlete take these *** without first checking
their legality -(they really have no excuse)

I have been wondering whether Probenecid is a drug commonly used in the
treatment of situations like UPTONS.

Without making any accusations, it would be very easy to found with this
drug in your system and then claim that it was all innocent as in this case.
If a SWIMMER was taking *** such as steroids and screening them with
Probenecid, wouldn't you have an innocent explanation at the ready in case
of detection.  The Chinese may be silly enough not to, but I don't think
Australians would be so stupid!!
 Question 1 & 2 really make you wonder!!

 
 
 

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by Y » Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Quote:



>> 1.) 4 Chinese swimmers were cought with Trimterine (? sp) a substance
>> that may mask steroid test.
>You conveniently omit the fact that the team carried enough Hgh to maintain a drugging program
>for the entire competion period.

There is enough probenicid in Sidney to drug the entire world.
So, what does that prove to you?

Quote:
>> 2.) The drug taken by Australian swimmer was probenicid (?sp). It is
>> banned because it can mask test for steroid.
>He was treated for a genuine illness by a medical doctor.

A check with any medical book will show at least half a dozen
effective treatment for tonsilitis. Why probenicid  a drug that
mask steroid test ?
Pick up the phone and call the Australian Olympic medical
advisory panel and I am sure the honest doctors there will
give you some very good advise on how to treat tonsilitis
without masking urine test for steroid.
Of cause if the intention is to cheat then one can always
claim that
a) I forgot I am a world class professional swimmer.
b) My doctor only knew one treatment for tonsilitis and he has
forgoten to ask the medical panel.

Quote:
>> Who is more quilty?
>Neither but there are a very different set of circumstances.  The Ozzie's case may at least be
>a gaff rather than a premeditated action.

The Chinese didn't even bother to cook up some lame excuses
and I am not trying to defend them.

YU

 
 
 

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by Paul Turne » Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:00:00

 I also like to keep discussions public-------

--

Quote:
>* <SNIP>
>* ...  The Chinese may be silly enough not to, but I don't think
>Australians would be so stupid!!

MC WROTE:
 >Please explain why the Chinese are any different to us 'Aussies'...
I don't recall saying that the Chinese were any different
The comment which you have taken out of context, was
put in the context that the Chinese were caught "red handed"
so to put, Australian drug takers are not quite so blatant!!
 >Please don't bring race, ideology or nationality into the argument.
 >Perhaps you could say that the sports administrators are more or less
Quote:
>critical of doping, but please don't paint a whole race with your
>philosophy.

Again I don't recall bringing race into the arguement, I don't care if you
are black blue pink or otherwise, if you take *** you are a cheat and
you should suffer the consequences.
Maybe you should re-read posted messages in their context
before making such ridiculous statements
PT
 
 
 

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by E. Godfre » Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Neither but there are a very different set of circumstances.  
The Ozzie's case may at least be a gaff rather than a premeditated action.

I can't believe you can write this and not feel just a little silly.

E. G.

 
 
 

Aussie Swimmer Takes Drugs

Post by Yilan Q » Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>The cross-posting of this (*** in swimming) topic is unecessary.

>I have not noticed Yilan Qiu making any contributions to
>rec.sport.swimming  - except for seizing any opportunity to cross-post
>to Asian cultural news groups.

That is your definition for contributions, who cares?

You definitely do not want to see that Aussies' drug problem to be discussed
by Asia ppl. I can fully understand your position.

You are wrong this time. If you check my post more seriesly, it was not
cross posted from 'rec.sport.swimming' to Asian cultural
NG. It is other way around. It was posted in the Asian cultural group
then I cross-posted to the 'rec.sport.swimming'. I read this news from
the Asian cultural NG. I thought my original
post already meant that, but you did not get it. I do think since there
were so many ppl jointed the Chinese doping cases in 'rec.sport.swimming',
this time they like to discuss this new doping case too. You may think
this is not logical.

Quote:
>I can only assume that he is hoping to generate a large number of (often
>pointless and offensive) arguments.

Every one hope many ppl to join the discussion he is doing, what is wrong?
If my memory serves me, I do not think it was Chinese who started the
Chinese doping cases in 'rec.sport.swimming', am I right? You definitely
do not think the guy who started those threads was trying to "generate a
large number of (often pointless and offensive) arguments", right?

That is what we called double standards.

Quote:
>This is both BORING as well as IRRITATING!

I never try to satisfy every one. You never think your post could be
both BORING as well as IRRITATING to others, right? I still think this
NG group is free speech place. I will try my best to not use any dirty,
name calling labeling tactics in the discussion. That is all I will do, but
not someone think my post is "both BORING as well as IRRITATING". I do
see some ppl are discussing in this thread, I am happy with that.

Quote:
>All this means is that people have to keep waiting for all the messages
>to download, and then clicking on 'Mark thread read'... or whatever.

You are free to do that. I do that often. That is why this technique was
designed in first place. Let other ppl discussing in the threads they
are interested but is boring to you? I do not understand why you have
the problem with that? As I said, I do that often.

Have a nice day!

WL

Quote:
>Anton.