Stroke Counting

Stroke Counting

Post by Gary T » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Hi pple,
        I just recently started swimming again. I have heard from
friends that I should count the no. of strokes I take to swim each
length.
        I swim one length(50m) in abt 56 strokes for freestyle, and 32
for ***stroke. Could anyone pls enlighten how inefficient at
swimming I am, and how I can improve.

        BTW, what's the average stroke counts?

Regards,
Gary Tan

 
 
 

Stroke Counting

Post by Gleshna » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:
>Could anyone pls enlighten how inefficient at
>swimming I am, and how I can improve.

Well, I read somewhere that a "good" swimmer has a 50m golf score of 80.  This
is adding your stroke count to your time.  Mine is above that.

Total Immersion is very popular with some swimmers, and they emphasize reducing
the stroke count.  Try a web search for "Total Immersion".

IMHO best way to improve your stroke count: better glide.

Bob

 
 
 

Stroke Counting

Post by leuna » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00

The total Immersion address is:
www.totalimmersion.net

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

 
 
 

Stroke Counting

Post by Marti » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> >Could anyone pls enlighten how inefficient at
> >swimming I am, and how I can improve.

> Well, I read somewhere that a "good" swimmer has a 50m golf score of 80.  This
> is adding your stroke count to your time.  Mine is above that.

> Total Immersion is very popular with some swimmers, and they emphasize reducing
> the stroke count.  Try a web search for "Total Immersion".

> IMHO best way to improve your stroke count: better glide.

> Bob

Golf is excellent at improving stroke technique.  Add the number of strokes and
seconds it takes to swim one lap.  Just remember not to end up only kicking and
making no arm strokes.  I swam a 50 m length in 46 strokes only 2 years ago and now
swim it in 30.  Yet I still haven't swum a sub 30 second 50m lap in my life.  I
learnt from some simple but universal laws:

Stroke technique is the Holy Cow of swimming.  Using brute power to battle against
water is exhausting and futile since Power is proportional to Velocity cubed i.e.

P = V^3 or V=P^(1/3)

So, if you swim 1 m/s on average and then try to maintain 1.2 m/s by brute power
you will need (1.2)^3 or 1.728 times more power.  A mere 20% increase in velocity
requires a hefty 72.8% escalation in muscle work.

I saw 15 year old Ian Thorpe swim at the Perth Aquatic centre 2 years ago.  His arm
motion looks utterly lethargic and undeveloped - this only means his stroke is so
well refined he doesn't need to work hard to maintain a high velocity.

Work on your stroke.  Reach as far as possible with each arm as it enters the water
and roll your body sideways as you stroke.  This will hurt initially as you stretch
your muscles but you will later appreciate the ease of your stroke.

Try to maintain breathing symmetry by learning to breath on both sides.

Cheers,
Martin.

 
 
 

Stroke Counting

Post by Donal Fag » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00



I've read that less than 20 strokes for 25 yds is good.  For your 50
meter lengths, that would be less than 44 strokes.

Quote:
>BTW, what's the average stroke counts?

I don't know the average stroke counts.  I used to swim 23 per 25
yds, now I'm doing 17 or 18.  For 50 meters, that would be maybe 52
down to 39-42, assuming that SCY swimmers save two strokes on the
turn.

--
Donal Fagan

Anglicize the name to reply via e-mail
http://donalfagan.home.mindspring.com

 
 
 

Stroke Counting

Post by (Pete Cresswe » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00

RE/

Quote:
>>BTW, what's the average stroke counts?

My impression is that it's an individual matter.

Clearly maximum distance someone can travel in one stroke is limited by the
length of their arms.

I'm non-competative, and not a particularly accomplished swimmer, but tall
(6'5").   My 50m stroke count is 30-34 depending on how well I maintain form.

There's a totally-buffed out, fifty-ish woman where I swim whose stroke count is
more like 50 for 50 meters and she can swim circles around me (and a lot of
other people....) in any distance you care to name.
-----------------------
Pete Cresswell

 
 
 

Stroke Counting

Post by Hendrick » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Counting strokes can help in many ways.  I've been counting my strokes for
nearly 15 years and for me it does the following:

1.    Lets me know what kind of shape and conditioning I'm in.  Currently I
take about 8 strokes duing warm-up (this is with an over emphasized glide)
and about 13-14 during the workout.  This has greatly improved in the last
12 months.

2.    It puts my mind somewhere else when I'm doing a workout.  Swimming
back and forth for 1 1/2 to 2 hours is rather boring.  Counting gives me
something to focus on.

3.    In a meet, I can tell how I'm doing by my stroke count.  You don't
have the benefit of pace clocks in a meet, so I use my stroke count as a way
to make sure that I remain efficient.

Quote:

>Hi pple,
> I just recently started swimming again. I have heard from
>friends that I should count the no. of strokes I take to swim each
>length.
> I swim one length(50m) in abt 56 strokes for freestyle, and 32
>for ***stroke. Could anyone pls enlighten how inefficient at
>swimming I am, and how I can improve.

> BTW, what's the average stroke counts?

>Regards,
>Gary Tan


 
 
 

Stroke Counting

Post by Gleshna » Wed, 08 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>2.    It puts my mind somewhere else when I'm doing a workout.  Swimming
>back and forth for 1 1/2 to 2 hours is rather boring.  Counting gives me
>something to focus on.

For me, counting, concentrating on balance & technique along with an increasing
variety of drills have pushed any thought of a radio completely out of my head.

I find that I can use stroke counting for a wide variety of drills, also.

Bob

 
 
 

Stroke Counting

Post by Allan Woo » Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> I just recently started swimming again. I have heard from
> friends that I should count the no. of strokes I take to swim each
> length.
> I swim one length(50m) in abt 56 strokes for freestyle, and 32
> for ***stroke. Could anyone pls enlighten how inefficient at
> swimming I am, and how I can improve.

Imagine that when your hand enters the water (front-crawl) it stays exactly
where you put it and your body therefore moves past it. This can be
considered to be almost ideal.

It follows therefore that the ideal swimmer will travel twice his arm length
every stroke. World class freestylers will achieve this. If you measure your
arm length, double it, then divide it into the swim distance you will have
approximately your 'ideal' stroke count. In my experience, if you can get
anywhere near 75% of this you are doing pretty well.

To improve you can glide as suggested but is that what you want? if you
glide then your speed drops. What you want is to set a reasonable time for a
given distance (say 50m) and then practice swimming that time with fewer
strokes.

Learn to be more streamlined, head/hips/legs all in-line, no pause in the
stroke, one arm takes over propulsion smoothly from the other to provide
constant body velocity, keep the leg kick compact and within the depth of
your body, ensure a high body position, bilateral breathing will help stroke
balance, keep arm recovery compact (high elbow, bent arm, hands pass close
to the body) - avoid a wide swinging arm recovery which will take your hips
off-line and cause lateral deviation.

In general - think about every stroke you make and strive to make it as
effective as possible. Ensure adequate rest between swims so you are not
fighting fatigue whilst practicing technique.

Hope this helps.

Allan

 
 
 

Stroke Counting

Post by (Pete Cresswe » Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:00:00

RE/

Quote:
> twice his arm length

Any idea how to measure this?

Sounds simple, I know - but you can get significantly different lengths
depending on where the measurement begins/ends.

Fingertips, where fingers join hand, wrist....

Armpit, where clavicle (sp?) joins shoulder, back behind shoulder....

-----------------------
Pete Cresswell

 
 
 

Stroke Counting

Post by Gleshna » Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:
>> twice his arm length

>Any idea how to measure this?

My simple guess would be shoulder to finger tip when the arm is in the near the
hip since  there is that catch and acceleration thing going on.

Bob

 
 
 

Stroke Counting

Post by chris mazu » Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:00:00


(perhaps even premeditated), and, in a very wise voice, sed:

Quote:
>>> twice his arm length

>>Any idea how to measure this?

>My simple guess would be shoulder to finger tip when the arm is in the near the
>hip since  there is that catch and acceleration thing going on.

Somewhere i think i remember Jonty Skinner prescribe measuring it this
way:

measure the distance from the wrist when the arm is held overhead to
the same wrist when the arm is held at the side.

--
chris
              "YES! is the answer."
                                --John Lennon

 
 
 

Stroke Counting

Post by evans_the_s.. » Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:00:00



Quote:
>RE/
>> twice his arm length

Da Vinci knew this.  Armspan = height (approx).
 
 
 

Stroke Counting

Post by Allan Woo » Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Quote:
> RE/
> > twice his arm length

> Any idea how to measure this?

Yes, it doesn't strictly matter so long as you do it in a consistent way.
Remember that the number you come up with for your 'ideal' stroke count is
only an approximation. It's real use is in assessing your own improvement by
having a figure to compare against which is somehow related to you
personally.

I have measured from armpit to the base of the thumb which is near enough.
In actual fact I now use the swimmer's height! working on the assumption
that a person's height is approximately twice his or her arm length. Like I
said, it's only an approximation and is peculiar to the individual swimmer,
but for comparison purposes is quite adequate. It's never going to be rocket
science!

Allan