Drug test - only Chinese atheletes ?

Drug test - only Chinese atheletes ?

Post by j0l8.. » Thu, 01 Dec 1994 20:53:00


I am a Chinese ....

I am shocked by the news that 8 Chinese swimmers were tested positive
in Asiad.  It puts shame on all the people who trusted them
and defended them in this issue.

Being a Chinese, I am sorry for what they have done.

This issue is not "racial problem" because former "soviet bloc"
countries were also charged with the same issue, although some how
not tested.

I only hope this issue is only a start of systematic drug tests
instead of  the "conclusion".

One thing I would like every one to pay attention to is that
in Asiad only Chinese swimmers were ALL tested. What will be the
result if all swimmers from ALL the countries be tested ?

All the real swimming-fans would like to see real, fair competetion
between the world's top swimmers. So, please end the debate on
whether Chinese swimmers have used drug. Rather,

HOW CAN WE MAKE SURE NO ONE FROM ANY COUNTRY WILL BE ABLE
TO CHEAT AGAIN !!

 
 
 

Drug test - only Chinese atheletes ?

Post by James G. Ack » Fri, 02 Dec 1994 08:02:12

: All the real swimming-fans would like to see real, fair competetion
: between the world's top swimmers. So, please end the debate on
: whether Chinese swimmers have used drug. Rather,
:
: HOW CAN WE MAKE SURE NO ONE FROM ANY COUNTRY WILL BE ABLE
: TO CHEAT AGAIN !!

        Random *** testing with less than 24-hours notice.  Make it
a condition of membership in FINA -- you are willing to submit to testing
at any time.  Only FINA members can compete in
international swimming events.  So, if you don't take the tests, you
can't be a member, and you can't swim.  Simple as that.  Just like
being a member of U.S. Swimming, the U.S. Tennis Association, or the
U.S. Golf Association.
        As an example, the USGA says you can only use golf balls of
a certain weight, design, etc., as well as design constraints on
other equipment, so that new technology doesn't give
one golfer an unfair advantage (witness the grooved club debate a
couple of years ago).  If you don't follow the rules, you can't
play!

        I'm reminded of the world record Glen Housman _didn't_ set
in the 1500 a couple of years ago.  He obviously broke the record, but
the timing didn't conform to FINA standards.  So it couldn't be
submitted as a WR.  Random *** testing should be a FINA standard
required for competition.  

        (Also witness Washington Redskins player Frank Wycheck,
suspended for the rest of the year for testing positive for a steroid.
He's a member of the player's union, and a certain number of players
selected by lottery each week undergo random testing.  To be a
member of the union and an NFL player, you agree to this system.  It's
too bad he's out, but them's the rules.)

===============================================
|  James G. Acker                             |

===============================================
All comments are the personal opinion of the writer
and do not constitute policy and/or opinion of government
or corporate entities.

 
 
 

Drug test - only Chinese atheletes ?

Post by Philip W. Arcu » Sat, 03 Dec 1994 04:43:36

Quote:

>All the real swimming-fans would like to see real, fair competetion
>between the world's top swimmers. So, please end the debate on
>whether Chinese swimmers have used drug. Rather,

>HOW CAN WE MAKE SURE NO ONE FROM ANY COUNTRY WILL BE ABLE
>TO CHEAT AGAIN !!

That has been and remains the only issue, only some patriotic chinese
interpreted the discussion as a direct attack on Chinese or the Chinese
nation, rather than statements of suspicion that that swim team was using
***.

Instead, the Chinese swimming team was just the most egregious example of
the failure of the international system to halt the use of performance
enhancing ***.

As I've said in another post, I believe the Chinese team had
institutional support of illegal drug use.  This is bad and, I *think*,
currently unique.  On the other hand, they certainly aren't the first,
and probably won't be the last. :-(

Phil

 
 
 

Drug test - only Chinese atheletes ?

Post by Michael Byer » Fri, 02 Dec 1994 12:32:45

I totally agree with your idea.  It seems very reasonable.  I read
somewhere a suggestion that swimmers that are hoping to break a world
record within 6 months should submit to a test at any time in the next
6 months.  I thought that the idea was good, but that it might cut down
on the spontanaeity(is that the right word) of swimming, anybody can bust
a great swim at any time, some are a total surprise.
Mr. Acker's idea seems much better because it would be much more fair to
all.  It would be more expensive for FINA but that could be dealt with.
The only problem that I see is that it might encourage a cruasade against
some nations, the enforcement of the FINA test standard might not be
totally equal -- there could be some abuse of power by the officials to
harass certain nations/individuals.
        Didn't I read a suggestion somewhere that the IOC should collectively
ban any nation that has 5 positve drug tests in a year.  Will this happen
to China or something?  If it turns out that there was a state run drug
program rather than just a lot of individuals(but the likelyhood of that
is dropping fast with each succesive positive test), there should be some
international atheletic action against China.
        On a totally different note, I was very impressed by the Harvard
men's swimming server site.
Any comments would be welcome
Mike Byerts(PUCSDT)
 
 
 

Drug test - only Chinese atheletes ?

Post by maohai hua » Sat, 03 Dec 1994 14:19:26

:       Didn't I read a suggestion somewhere that the IOC should collectively
: ban any nation that has 5 positve drug tests in a year.  Will this happen
: to China or something?

What a dumb idea.

Given the population and near proportional amount of athletes sent to
international competition China will definitely be put in a unfair
disadvantagous situation. I can't imagin a small nation like Fiji ( no
flame please ) will have 5 positive a year. Think about it, what Chinese
have got is less than 100 million people per positive result, assume all
allegations are true. how many countries in the world have total population
larger that 100 million?

can't believe it.

- mh

 
 
 

Drug test - only Chinese atheletes ?

Post by James G. Ack » Sat, 03 Dec 1994 23:53:48

:       Didn't I read a suggestion somewhere that the IOC should collectively
: ban any nation that has 5 positve drug tests in a year.  Will this happen
: to China or something?  If it turns out that there was a state run drug
: program rather than just a lot of individuals(but the likelyhood of that
: is dropping fast with each succesive positive test), there should be some
: international atheletic action against China.

        2 things:

        1) As another poster already noted, doing it on the basis of just
a given number of + *** tests would be unfair to large countries.  
A scale based on population of the country or team size (thinking of
Hungary here) would be better, plus a "probationary" status, i.e., with a
couple of + tests, one more and the ban goes into effect.

        2)  Conclusive evidence of state-supported drug use in sports
should be followed by an immediate ban.

===============================================
|  James G. Acker                             |

===============================================
All comments are the personal opinion of the writer
and do not constitute policy and/or opinion of government
or corporate entities.

 
 
 

Drug test - only Chinese atheletes ?

Post by Huanquan Zhe » Mon, 05 Dec 1994 17:51:42


Quote:
>    1) As another poster already noted, doing it on the basis of just
> a given number of + *** tests would be unfair to large countries.  
> A scale based on population of the country or team size (thinking of
> Hungary here) would be better, plus a "probationary" status, i.e., with a
> couple of + tests, one more and the ban goes into effect.

I guess the ban based on numbers of positive tests per 100 tests
should be a very good idea, let's say 10%, if a national team has
10% test positive per year then this national should be banned for
one year.

Note I mentioned the percentage here.

Quote:
>    2)  Conclusive evidence of state-supported drug use in sports
> should be followed by an immediate ban.

What is state supported drug use? how do you indentify? I think is
is very difficult to distinguish. What I guess is all drug use is
bases on the organized system, poeple can not deny it. in China, I
know there is an organized swimming system from provinces to national
level, they do feed swimmers in someways after 1985. in USA, I guess
there should be a similar organized swimming system, isn't it?
 
 
 

Drug test - only Chinese atheletes ?

Post by Xiaoguang » Tue, 06 Dec 1994 10:09:09

Quote:

>I am a Chinese ....
>I am shocked by the news that 8 Chinese swimmers were tested positive
>in Asiad.  It puts shame on all the people who trusted them
>and defended them in this issue.
>Being a Chinese, I am sorry for what they have done.

What do you need to be sorry about!  
 
 
 

Drug test - only Chinese atheletes ?

Post by James G. Ack » Tue, 06 Dec 1994 23:52:15

: >  2)  Conclusive evidence of state-supported drug use in sports
: > should be followed by an immediate ban.
:
: What is state supported drug use? how do you indentify? I think is
: is very difficult to distinguish. What I guess is all drug use is
: bases on the organized system, poeple can not deny it. in China, I
: know there is an organized swimming system from provinces to national
: level, they do feed swimmers in someways after 1985. in USA, I guess
: there should be a similar organized swimming system, isn't it?

        If the government is using funds to procure/manufacture ***
that are then given to the athletes, that is state-supported drug
use in sports.  If funds are being used to pay doctors to monitor
drug levels in athletes (even if the athletes are procuring the ***
themselves), that too is state-supported drug use.  If the government
is funding research on how to administer and how much *** to give to
athletes to be most effective, and then the researchers are advising
the doctors, that too is state-supported drug use.

        (Note:  all 3 types defined above occurred in East Germany.)

        Having an organized government-funded (in whole or in part)
sports program is not the same as having an organized _drug_ program
for sports.  China is likely not as organized as East Germany was, _if_
China has an organized system at all, which is not proven.  My suspicion
is that a few coaches have allied themselves with the "coaches"/doctors
from East Germany and they have been giving the swimmers under their
tutelage ***.  While this would still be a serious situation, even
if the coach was being paid in full by the government, IMO it should
not result in complete banishment.  Such a situation still warrants
strict penalties, however.

===============================================
|  James G. Acker                             |

===============================================
All comments are the personal opinion of the writer
and do not constitute policy and/or opinion of government
or corporate entities.

 
 
 

Drug test - only Chinese atheletes ?

Post by Joe Xi x40 » Thu, 08 Dec 1994 04:16:52

:       Didn't I read a suggestion somewhere that the IOC should collectively
: ban any nation that has 5 positve drug tests in a year.  Will this happen
: to China or something?

If there had been this rule, the US would not have been allowed to enter
the 1988 Olympics, 1992 Olympics, and a whole bunch of other international
sporting events. Since this rule would be unfair to the US, it would not
have been accepted by IOC. We all know anything that is unfair to US is
not likely to get passed.

 
 
 

Drug test - only Chinese atheletes ?

Post by RIC » Sat, 10 Dec 1994 20:26:00


Quote:

>:       Didn't I read a suggestion somewhere that the IOC should collectively
>: ban any nation that has 5 positve drug tests in a year.  Will this happen
>: to China or something?

>If there had been this rule, the US would not have been allowed to enter
>the 1988 Olympics, 1992 Olympics, and a whole bunch of other international
>sporting events. Since this rule would be unfair to the US, it would not
>have been accepted by IOC. We all know anything that is unfair to US is
>not likely to get passed.

Yeah, right.  The US rules the world.  Tell it to all the amateurs who lost
competitions to the professionals from the "State sponsored programs."  How
long did that unequitable situation persist?  At least forty years!  Good thing
the US allowed it.
 
 
 

Drug test - only Chinese atheletes ?

Post by Sean » Sun, 11 Dec 1994 13:07:30

Quote:

>Yeah, right.  The US rules the world.  Tell it to all the amateurs who lost
>competitions to the professionals from the "State sponsored programs."  How
>long did that unequitable situation persist?  At least forty years!  Good thing
>the US allowed it.

After reading a few garage by this idiot(RICK?), I
have to say that he/it is full of bullshit.