Arctic Cat retains value better than Polaris ????

Arctic Cat retains value better than Polaris ????

Post by BlueBoo.. » Thu, 18 Jun 1998 04:00:00


While doing pricing research on the next Snowmobile Blue Book, I am surprised
by the latest data.  I am not sure how to interpret the data that says that,
on average, Arctic Cat's are retaining a higher percentage of purchase price
for model years 1991-1996 than are Polaris models.  Previous research
indicated the opposite. Did Polaris dealers get stuck with more non-current
inventory and did dumping sleds at under cost affect older years as well?
Maybe there have been more distress sales than usual since last January.
Maybe there are more distressed  Polaris owners than there are  Arctic
owners. Research is based on hundreds of Snowmobiles for sale in classifieds,
at auction,  as well as followup calls to classified advertisers to see if
they sold their sled and for how much.  Many calls are made to dealers as
well to discuss overall market conditions and specific sales.

tom fournier
Clymer Blue Book

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Arctic Cat retains value better than Polaris ????

Post by jon_kemn.. » Thu, 18 Jun 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> While doing pricing research on the next Snowmobile Blue Book, I am surprised
> by the latest data.  I am not sure how to interpret the data that says that,
> on average, Arctic Cat's are retaining a higher percentage of purchase price
> for model years 1991-1996 than are Polaris models.  Previous research
> indicated the opposite.

Possible.  AC made great strides (IMO) with the introduction of the ZR in '92
so their used sleds are more popular than previous models.

How did you determine the purchase price for all the used sleds in your
survey data?  Polaris typically has had bigger discounts from retail price as
best as I know.

Regardless, used sled prices are in the dumper and depreciation on a Polaris
may be worse than other brands right now.

Jon

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Arctic Cat retains value better than Polaris ????

Post by BlueBoo.. » Thu, 18 Jun 1998 04:00:00

Quote:


> > While doing pricing research on the next Snowmobile Blue Book, I am surprised
> > by the latest data.  I am not sure how to interpret the data that says that,
> > on average, Arctic Cat's are retaining a higher percentage of purchase price
> > for model years 1991-1996 than are Polaris models.  Previous research
> > indicated the opposite.

> Possible.  AC made great strides (IMO) with the introduction of the ZR in '92
> so their used sleds are more popular than previous models.

> How did you determine the purchase price for all the used sleds in your
> survey data?  Polaris typically has had bigger discounts from retail price as
> best as I know.

Actuall selling prices are, for the most part, determined by talking to a
network of dealers and asking them what their margin is on new sales. I get
dealer cost and MSRP from the manufacturers.  Unfortuanately, I must average
these prices as some dealers in competitive markets discount much more than
do others with a bigger territory. Just because Polaris has a higher markup
from dealer cost to retail doesn't mean they get any more for say a 600 XCR
(MSRP= $7149) than a 600 Powder Extreme Special EFI ($6799). Just an example,
maybe not the best but makes my point.

Quote:
> Regardless, used sled prices are in the dumper and depreciation on a Polaris
> may be worse than other brands right now.
> Jon

Of all the consumer products I price, Personal Watercraft and Snomobiles have
hit the dumps the most this past year.  This is always temporary and offers
consumers a real buying opportunity.

tom fournier
Clymer Blue Book

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Arctic Cat retains value better than Polaris ????

Post by ZR600EFI LIMITE » Thu, 18 Jun 1998 04:00:00

Come on Greg you should be able to cut down Arctic Cat here and make some
stupid anti Cat statements.......ZR600

 
 
 

Arctic Cat retains value better than Polaris ????

Post by Greg » Fri, 19 Jun 1998 04:00:00

Actually the Cat is much more refined than the Polaris. The ergo's and
design are fresh and up to date in comparison to the Poo. They also handle
better and have a fantastic racing program (win on Sunday--sell on Monday).
This adds up to better resale value.  I'm not anti Cat, I'm just pro Poo.
My preference in sleds is based on my own experience with high mileage and
durability. Poo is still tops in my books. I considered buying a Cat or Doo
for '99. Stayed with the Poo cause they FINALLY addressed all the issues
which I was jumping ship to get. The ZR600efi fiasco didn't ease my mind
about Cat either. Nice to see I still have your attention mski!!!! Sorry to
disappoint you , but I'm all out of anti Cat comments. Enjoy your ride.

Greg



Quote:
> Come on Greg you should be able to cut down Arctic Cat here and make some
> stupid anti Cat statements.......ZR600

 
 
 

Arctic Cat retains value better than Polaris ????

Post by Michael Har » Fri, 19 Jun 1998 04:00:00

Quote:



>> While doing pricing research on the next Snowmobile Blue Book, I am
surprised
>> by the latest data.  I am not sure how to interpret the data that says
that,
>> on average, Arctic Cat's are retaining a higher percentage of purchase
price
>> for model years 1991-1996 than are Polaris models.  Previous research
>> indicated the opposite.

>Possible.  AC made great strides (IMO) with the introduction of the ZR in
'92
>so their used sleds are more popular than previous models.

Or perhaps they've changed less then other mfrs? Or people actually tend to
prefer the older ones? Or the new ones at too likely to blow up???   :-)

Also the 700 might figure into this.... Have you tried separating the data
by model?  To the average purchaser some (most?) of the cat models don't
appear to have changed substantially. With Polaris, Doo and Yamaha that
isn't the case...

Michael

 
 
 

Arctic Cat retains value better than Polaris ????

Post by Mike Dominic » Fri, 19 Jun 1998 04:00:00

AC has retains a better value over polaris because they start off costing a
lot more and they are a refined more.  Not some sled that has 5-10 yr old
tech. on it.

Mike

97 MXZ 583

Quote:

>Actually the Cat is much more refined than the Polaris. The ergo's and
>design are fresh and up to date in comparison to the Poo. They also handle
>better and have a fantastic racing program (win on Sunday--sell on Monday).
>This adds up to better resale value.  I'm not anti Cat, I'm just pro Poo.
>My preference in sleds is based on my own experience with high mileage and
>durability. Poo is still tops in my books. I considered buying a Cat or Doo
>for '99. Stayed with the Poo cause they FINALLY addressed all the issues
>which I was jumping ship to get. The ZR600efi fiasco didn't ease my mind
>about Cat either. Nice to see I still have your attention mski!!!! Sorry to
>disappoint you , but I'm all out of anti Cat comments. Enjoy your ride.

>Greg



>> Come on Greg you should be able to cut down Arctic Cat here and make some
>> stupid anti Cat statements.......ZR600

 
 
 

Arctic Cat retains value better than Polaris ????

Post by Doug Mill » Sat, 20 Jun 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
>Or perhaps they've changed less then other mfrs? Or people actually tend to

Yeah, cat hasn't changed their bulkheads in like 10 years. (sarcasm
:-)).

Quote:
>prefer the older ones? Or the new ones at too likely to blow up???   :-)

I bet a sled with a blown motor is worth a LOT less than one with a
good motor.   I think you just shot yourself if you are implying that
cat's blow up.  :-)

-doug Miller

 
 
 

Arctic Cat retains value better than Polaris ????

Post by Doug Mill » Sat, 20 Jun 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>While doing pricing research on the next Snowmobile Blue Book, I am surprised
>by the latest data.  I am not sure how to interpret the data that says that,
>on average, Arctic Cat's are retaining a higher percentage of purchase price
>for model years 1991-1996 than are Polaris models.  Previous research
>indicated the opposite. Did Polaris dealers get stuck with more non-current
>inventory and did dumping sleds at under cost affect older years as well?

A couple of ideas:
A 4 year old Polaris isn't much better than a 10 year old polaris.
On the other hand, a 4 year old cat is significantly better than a 10
year old Cat. For those goofy folks that are brand loyal, it really
encourages the cat folks to buy a sled made after 1991, while a used
1995 polaris 500 is about the same as a 1988 Polaris 500.  Both great
sleds, but the the 1988 will hold it's value pretty good against the
1995.

Also, IMHO the XLT used market is going to take a huge dive in the
next few years as the craze for light weight twins continues. Used
XLTs out west are diving HARD, while older 550 cats and 580 cats are
still twins, and still reasonable sellers.

Ultra 680 prices are gonna puke, especially the single pipes sleds.
Triple piped sleds may hold pretty well though. In fact, I'd bet that
the prices of used triple pipers actually comes back next year.

-Doug Miller

 
 
 

Arctic Cat retains value better than Polaris ????

Post by ZR600EFI LIMITE » Sat, 20 Jun 1998 04:00:00

Greg did all these comments come from you or did something take over you or
your computer? The normal Greg would always have to get in a cut or two on
Cat after a pro Cat post and for sure after a post stated Cat>Polaris. If
you did type this and are in a sane state of mind then well I tip my hat to
you (if I had one on that is). I drive a Cat but if I didn't I probably
would be on a Polaris and if not that then a Doo.............ZR600

 
 
 

Arctic Cat retains value better than Polaris ????

Post by Michael Har » Sat, 20 Jun 1998 04:00:00

Quote:



>>prefer the older ones? Or the new ones at too likely to blow up???   :-)

>I bet a sled with a blown motor is worth a LOT less than one with a
>good motor.   I think you just shot yourself if you are implying that
>cat's blow up.  :-)

>-doug Miller

Not so Mr. Butthead...  :-)

If you look (you can read or did going back to work***that up too?)
you'd see the reference up to '96 models.

Hey Doug, lest you forget I've actually been in the showroom selling these
things. Most buyers can't tell the difference between a ZR, a ZRT and a EXT
600 except for the stickers and colors.  "ETT what's that?" AWS IV or V is
way beyond them. Coupling? Hell, they don't even begin to understand sharing
dynamics of suspension or weight transfer. We're getting back to that
drunken talk we had at Canfield's aren't we?

Face it the average new sled buyer is by and large a cheap idiot.  If that
means by market share Polaris marketing is better aimed at cheap idiots so
be it. That however might be one heck of a leap. Perhaps it's media hype
that's done that i dunno. IMO I have found the loyal Polaris customers more
informed as a whole.

One thing for certain is the Cat guys are more brand loyal than others.
Despite having two other brands they still insist on a Cat. Brings to mind
the old "more people swear by their Chevrolets than at them". There's a
psychological reason for that but hell you can't read....    :-)

 
 
 

Arctic Cat retains value better than Polaris ????

Post by Bruc » Sat, 20 Jun 1998 04:00:00

I just bought a new '97 Sea-Doo Challenger jet boat that has the 800 series
motor with rave valves.  I use Philips Injex in my Cats and have had good
luck with it.  Has anyone used Injex with rave valves?  I would like some
opinions on different oils ( synthetic and regular) that everyone uses in
their rotax with rave valved sleds or sea-doos.

Thanks, Bruce
(remove zrt for e-mail)

 
 
 

Arctic Cat retains value better than Polaris ????

Post by plumnut » Sat, 20 Jun 1998 04:00:00

I use Torco...great stuff..mike

Quote:

> I just bought a new '97 Sea-Doo Challenger jet boat that has the 800 series
> motor with rave valves.  I use Philips Injex in my Cats and have had good
> luck with it.  Has anyone used Injex with rave valves?  I would like some
> opinions on different oils ( synthetic and regular) that everyone uses in
> their rotax with rave valved sleds or sea-doos.

> Thanks, Bruce
> (remove zrt for e-mail)