Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by William Verno » Sat, 13 Apr 1996 04:00:00


I just traded in my 96 Polaris XLT Special in for one of the limited build ZR
580's.  I was never comfortable with the XLT's ride or handling.  If I set the
suspension too soft I was constantly bottoming out.  If I set it stiffer it
felt too tippy, especially in turns.  It was also a dog out of the hole, and
squirrely in warm, wet snow conditions.  Has anyone reading this had the chance
to ride the ZR580?  If so, I'd appreciate any opinions.
 
 
 

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by Jeff Bart » Sat, 13 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> I just traded in my 96 Polaris XLT Special in for one of the limited build ZR
> 580's.  I was never comfortable with the XLT's ride or handling.  If I set the
> suspension too soft I was constantly bottoming out.  If I set it stiffer it
> felt too tippy, especially in turns.  It was also a dog out of the hole, and
> squirrely in warm, wet snow conditions.  Has anyone reading this had the chance
> to ride the ZR580?  If so, I'd appreciate any opinions.

 Chris D. you out here??  Tell the man what he needs to do!!!

 jeff b.

 
 
 

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by Scott Will » Sun, 14 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>I just traded in my 96 Polaris XLT Special in for one of the limited build ZR
>580's.  I was never comfortable with the XLT's ride or handling.  If I set the
>suspension too soft I was constantly bottoming out.  If I set it stiffer it
>felt too tippy, especially in turns.  It was also a dog out of the hole, and
>squirrely in warm, wet snow conditions.  Has anyone reading this had the chance
>to ride the ZR580?  If so, I'd appreciate any opinions.

        Smart move . . .   Educated decision . . . . .

----------------------------------------------------------------

'96 ZRT600 Mountain Cat  2" Track  http://www.vii.com/~scott/
Northern Utah
----------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by Doug Mill » Tue, 16 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>I just traded in my 96 Polaris XLT Special in for one of the limited build ZR
>580's.  I was never comfortable with the XLT's ride or handling.  If I set the
>suspension too soft I was constantly bottoming out.  If I set it stiffer it
>felt too tippy, especially in turns.  It was also a dog out of the hole, and
>squirrely in warm, wet snow conditions.  Has anyone reading this had the chance
>to ride the ZR580?  If so, I'd appreciate any opinions.

It's kind of like the XLT, except it corners well, has 15 more
horsepower, doesn't need to be jetted ever, comes with plastic,
unbreakable skis, and is 40 pounds lighter. Other than that, they are
both snowmobiles; have tracks, seats and gas tanks.  ;-)
-Doug Miller
 
 
 

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by William Verno » Fri, 19 Apr 1996 04:00:00

One thing I forgot to mention is Polaris's warranty coverage.  The plastic
piece on the suspension that holds the torsion spring in place broke.  The
spring fell down between the idler wheel and the rail and badly gouged all the
lugs on the track.  Polaris said since this model doesn't use the drive lugs to
move the track, they wouldn't cover it.  Didn't matter that my resale value
dropped probably $500.00.  I wouldn't buy the sled used if I were to see the
track damage.  The dealer (Lebarons in Troy) said Polaris is very selective
with their warranty coverage, whereas Arctic Cat would have allowed this type
of claim.  So even if I liked the sled, I would have wanted to dump it after
this experience and go with a different brand.  By the way, I also have a 94
Ski-Doo Grand Touring SE that had a suspension part break, flip around, and
gouge the track no where near as severe as the Polaris.  Ski-Doo replaced the
track, no problem.
 
 
 

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by Bill Thorp » Fri, 19 Apr 1996 04:00:00

This just goes to prove what I have been posting lately, Polaris does not
care about their consumers, they don't listen to you guys, and they don't
build the best sled that they can. This is very typical of Polaris, and
is the reason that they are no longer the kind of manufacturer that they
once were. They have been spoiled by being sales leader for too long, so
lets stop buying polaris until they start to listen and give us what we
want, it is our money, we should get what we want, lets force polaris to
listen.
 
 
 

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by Bill Thorp » Fri, 19 Apr 1996 04:00:00

This just goes to prove what I have been posting lately, Polaris does not
care about their consumers, they don't listen to you guys, and they don't
build the best sled that they can. This is very typical of Polaris, and
is the reason that they are no longer the kind of manufacturer that they
once were. They have been spoiled by being sales leader for too long, so
lets stop buying polaris until they start to listen and give us what we
want, it is our money, we should get what we want, lets force polaris to
listen.
 
 
 

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by Mark A Zimmerm » Fri, 19 Apr 1996 04:00:00

: once were. They have been spoiled by being sales leader for too long, so
: lets stop buying polaris until they start to listen and give us what we
: want, it is our money, we should get what we want, lets force polaris to
: listen.

     I don't see how where one person who doesn't like how the XLT
Special rides proves anything.  And then he bought a ZR-580 which isn't
even the same class of snowmobile as the XLT Special, so he's after a
more aggressive type of sled similar to the Polaris XC-600.  
     You guys can quit buying Polaris all that you want.  That's fine
with me.  As far as I'm concerned, I like the product, I think they're
doing as well as the others, except maybe they could use a few more
ponies under the hood.  That's what's nice about having at least four
manufacturers, you can buy what brand you want, right?  So go buy the CAT,
the SkiDoo or the Yamaha.  Your bellyaching is getting real old.....

Mark Zimmerman, Indy 650, Central Wisconsin

 
 
 

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by Bill Thorp » Fri, 19 Apr 1996 04:00:00

As long as Polaris has people like you, they will be OK.
If you would stop and think for a while, you would realize that Polaris
does not care about you, Polaris only cares about being the leader in
sales, and not making the sleds YOU want, or sleds that are as good as
they can make. Don't let your brand loyalty mess with your perception as
a consumer, don't buy just because it is Polaris, buy because it is
something you want.
Polaris is an awesome company, they could make MUCH better sleds if they
wanted to, but they don't want to. Polaris is content in just keeping the
status quo, they are the leader in sales why change that? If Polaris
would commit to making the best sleds that they could, they would
eliminate a lot of their current sleds, make fewer models, but models
that are best in their class. Polaris has a ton of revenue that they
could put into better sleds, but if people like you keep buying a Polaris
just because it is Polaris then they will never greatly improve their
sleds like they should. Look at what Ski-Doo did, they saw that their was
demand for much improved Doo's, lighter, faster, better handeling etc.
and they made it happen, Ski-Doo's line is the best in the biz because
they took the time, the money, and the people to listen to what people
want and they made the changes. Cat is as always commited to racing, and
they rule in x-c racing, F III racing, drag racing etc, they also pride
themselves on handeling, and produce the best handeling sleds out there.
Even Yamaha, who has a long history (TSS anybody?) of not listening to
the people, and they changed everything and are now listening. What's up
with Polaris?!?!? I'll spell it out for you, Polaris has what is called,

   S-A-L-E-S  L-E-A-D-E-R  S-Y-N-D-R-O-M-E

and if you don't demand change, demand better sleds, then you will never
see them!

 
 
 

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by TAvery44 » Fri, 19 Apr 1996 04:00:00


writes:

Quote:
>One thing I forgot to mention is Polaris's warranty coverage.  The
plastic
>piece on the suspension that holds the torsion spring in place broke.
The
>spring fell down between the idler wheel and the rail and badly gouged
all
>the
>lugs on the track.  Polaris said since this model doesn't use the drive
lugs
>to
>move the track, they wouldn't cover it.  Didn't matter that my resale
value
>dropped probably $500.00.  I wouldn't buy the sled used if I were to see
the
>track damage.  The dealer (Lebarons in Troy) said Polaris is very
selective
>with their warranty coverage, whereas Arctic Cat would have allowed this
type
>of claim.  So even if I liked the sled, I would have wanted to dump it
after
>this experience and go with a different brand.  By the way, I also have a
94
>Ski-Doo Grand Touring SE that had a suspension part break, flip around,
and
>gouge the track no where near as severe as the Polaris.  Ski-Doo replaced
the
>track, no problem.

This says much more about the dealer than it does the company. There is at
least one dealer of every brand that would not warranty this track, and at
least one dealer that would. Warranty repairs are controlled by the
dealer, and how much he is willing to stand up for you the customer.

TA
--
Tom Avery
XTRA Special XLT

 
 
 

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by David P Jopp » Sat, 20 Apr 1996 04:00:00

: As long as Polaris has people like you, they will be OK.
: If you would stop and think for a while, you would realize that Polaris
: does not care about you, Polaris only cares about being the leader in
: sales, and not making the sleds YOU want, or sleds that are as good as
: they can make. Don't let your brand loyalty mess with your perception as
: a consumer, don't buy just because it is Polaris, buy because it is
: something you want.

I think Mr. Riteous here needs a clue.
I'm glad you are in on all the meetings that Polaris' Management has
so you can tell us about them not caring about the customer. If they
didn't care about making sleds WE want why would they have 30+ different
sleds to choose from?  They are trying to make a sled for everyones
applicaiton.  If they are not doing the right thing they will find
out about it when the sales drop, like Ski Doo and Yamaha found out.

<snip>

: Look at what Ski-Doo did, they saw that their was
: demand for much improved Doo's, lighter, faster, better handeling etc.
: and they made it happen, Ski-Doo's line is the best in the biz because
: they took the time, the money, and the people to listen to what people
: want and they made the changes.

<snip>

That, Bill, is pure Bullshit.  Ski Doo now knows what people want
because most people were buying Polaris, not because they listened
to what people wanted.  The same can be said of Yamaha and their
new (To Yamaha anyways) trailing arm front suspension.  They are
copying something that has worked for Polaris for years and I guess
that means they are listening to what people want.

: Cat is as always commited to racing, and
: they rule in x-c racing, F III racing, drag racing etc, they also pride
: themselves on handeling, and produce the best handeling sleds out there.
: Even Yamaha, who has a long history (TSS anybody?) of not listening to
: the people, and they changed everything and are now listening.

I believe Polaris has done fairly well in XC racing over the past 5
years if you'd care to look it up (not to mention the last 20!). I
would agree that Arctic Cat makes a great product, but they are not
immune to customers satisfaction complaints.  Everyone has heard a
horror story or 2 about someone who bought sleds, if they don't
have one of their own, it doesn't matter what manufacturer made it.

: What's up
: with Polaris?!?!? I'll spell it out for you, Polaris has what is called,

:    S-A-L-E-S  L-E-A-D-E-R  S-Y-N-D-R-O-M-E

: and if you don't demand change, demand better sleds, then you will never
: see them!

Whatever, I'm sure that everyone out there that bought a Polaris, bought
it because it was the only sled they would ever own. Duh.  I'm sure that
if I were going to plunk down $5000-$8000 on a sled I'd make sure that
I was gonna be happy and satisfied with it.   There are ways to do this.
Make sure the dealer you buy your sled from stands behind the product that
they sell.  I'm not just talking about Polaris either (Todd Chirstensen?).
Also, make sure you LOVE what you are buying.  I don't know many
people that will spend that kind of money on a "chance" that they
will be happy with their purchase.  If you don't research your
dealer and product you may be somewhat foolish with your money. I
know plenty of people that were very happy with their Ultras and
XCR Specials last winter.

Polaris came out with the afore mentioned models last yaer.  They
may have had some problems with set-ups, but what new models don't?
I would doubt that Polairs didn't CARE the customer when they tried
to put out these new models.

There will always be craybabies out there that have a bad experience
with something and we are always going to be doomed to hear about it.

What happens if you buy a new Ski Doo this year and you have some
problems that aren't automatically cured?  I suppose Ski Doo will
be your target next year?  Why don't you let people that sno-checked
Polaris this spring decide for themselves next season how they like
them instead of making them worry about their purchase?  The last thing
I'd want is for me to be second guessing my purchase becuause someone
I don't even know is putting my choice down.  Let it rest, Bill Thorpe.

Dave Joppru
1990 INDY 650
Eau Claire, WI

 
 
 

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by Mark A Zimmerm » Sat, 20 Apr 1996 04:00:00

     You already have this through personal e-mail as well, but since
you through it out to the masses, here goes.....

: : As long as Polaris has people like you, they will be OK.

     They've got alot of people like me and we think they are OK.

: : If you would stop and think for a while, you would realize that Polaris
: : does not care about you, Polaris only cares about being the leader in
: : sales, and not making the sleds YOU want, or sleds that are as good as
: : they can make. Don't let your brand loyalty mess with your perception as
: : a consumer, don't buy just because it is Polaris, buy because it is
: : something you want.

     For this year, they did make exactly the machine that I wanted -
a 500cc size two-up with all the bells and whistles that gets good
mileage to boot, hence the Indy Classic Touring which has the "economy
ported" 500cc engine that's been around for a while.  I'd say that since
they DO make more different models than anyone else, there should be
something there that you can choose from.  So, how can you say that every
other manufacturer makes the sled that "YOU want" and Polaris doesn't?
Don't let YOUR brand loyalty mess with your perception as a consumer.
If you have something personal against Polaris, fine.  But don't start
telling me about brand loyalty because I felt that Polaris made what I
wanted and just because I ordered a Polaris that I must be "brand loyal"
or something.  You like what you like and I'll do the same.  That's why
they call us consumers - we get to choose what we want to spend our
greenbacks on.  No, your logic is NOT logical..

: : Look at what Ski-Doo did, they saw that their was
: : demand for much improved Doo's, lighter, faster, better handeling etc.
: : and they made it happen, Ski-Doo's line is the best in the biz because
: : they took the time, the money, and the people to listen to what people
: : want and they made the changes.

     No way are they the "best in the biz".  Otherwise, they'd win EVERY
race at EVERY event, they'd have all ten slots in the yearly "Ten Best
Sleds of the Year" articles, and they'd outsell all the other manufacturers.
By the way, they did give the people what they wanted - nice Polaris front
end there guy.....And a long travel suspension, gee, where did I see that
in '95?

: : Cat is as always commited to racing, and
: : they rule in x-c racing, F III racing, drag racing etc, they also pride
: : themselves on handeling, and produce the best handeling sleds out there.
: : Even Yamaha, who has a long history (TSS anybody?) of not listening to
: : the people, and they changed everything and are now listening.

     Yes, Arctic Cat makes a VERY good performance sled.  And they've had
their share of troubles, too.  And if Ski-Doo is the best in the biz, why
aren't they "ruling" in x-c racing, F III racing, drag racing, etc.?
And as far as Yamaha is concerned, they came up with a pretty familiar
looking front end on the '97s, so maybe like Ski-Doo, they also saw the
light!

: : What's up with Polaris?

     You mentioned that Polaris is such an awesome company and should
be building so much better of a sled...I don't think that Polaris even
compares to Bombardier as a company.  So why didn't Bombardier throw
millions at staying #1 in the industry.  They were at one time - a long
time ago..   Ya, Polaris has some faults.  But so does the rest.  And
don't try and make them sound so perfect while thrashing Polaris to no
end.  

: : I'll spell it out for you,

     No, I'll spell it out for you -

I-F  I-T  I-S-N'-T  B-R-O-K-E-N,  D-O-N'-T  F-I-X  I-T!!!!

 
 
 

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by Chadek » Sat, 20 Apr 1996 04:00:00


writes:

Quote:
> Polaris said since this model doesn't use the drive lugs to
>move the track, they wouldn't cover it.  Didn't matter that my resale
value
>dropped probably $500.00.  I wouldn't buy the sled used if I were to see
the
>track damage.  The dealer (Lebarons in Troy) said Polaris is very
selective
>with their warranty coverage, whereas Arctic Cat would have allowed this

t

Okay lets get the story from the dealer." we did not sell the Polaris to
Mr.Vernon, we sold the ZR and took his Polaris in trade. He asked about
warranty and we made the comment about selective coverage as we didn't see
anything wrong. We sold his Polaris about 2 weeks later at a nice
profit.We are going to call that customer to look at the track closer. If
we think it is bad I am sure we can get it covered." Conversation on the
phone April 18th with the Owner
Now this is the kind of dealer we all need to have. Right? Remember it is
the dealer that makes the difference. So even though Thorpe doesn't like
Polaris it is okay to buy what you want and feel confident you did not get
junk.

 
 
 

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by Bill Thorp » Sat, 20 Apr 1996 04:00:00

You are pretty wordy there, but that is OK. I disagree with you whole
heartedly. I know that others out there will agree with you, but a lot of
people won't either. I know that Polaris has been the best seller for
many seasons, but they do not make the best sleds, they just make the
most. Their sleds are good, but with the kind of money that Polaris has,
and the expertise, their sleds should be great, so what's going on
here?!?!?
You believe what you want, but you had better open your mind a little
more so that you can see whole picture, I think that you are missing the
forest because you are concentrating on the trees.

By the way, I'm talking about a snowmobile here, not anyone personally,
there is no need for childish tantrums. I mean really, I'm sure that you
are a cool guy and everything, so don't take everything so personally.

 
 
 

Limited build ZR 580 ETT EFI

Post by Bill Thorp » Sat, 20 Apr 1996 04:00:00

I agree with you.
Polaris does have some very nice sleds for cruising, I have to give you
that, but why don't they have much better performing sleds? Maybe Polaris
has what you want, I haven't looked at that end of the biz carefully
enough, I was wrong about that, but Polaris needs to make a much better
performing high-performance sled. They lack in some very critical ways,
like a rocket sled, a mountain sled, high-performance 700,and 600 triple,
and the 440 and 600 race sleds. They could make much better sleds in each
of these categories, people want it, but they don't and until they do,
until they start listening to those people, they will not be the best in
my mind.
Ski-doo has great performace sleds, a great rocket sled, a great mountain
sled, great 440 and 583 race sleds, great 700 etc. I am not saying that
they can't improve, they do, but that they are a head of Polaris when it
comes to building a great complete line.
Arctic Cat really needs to broaden their line too, sure they have great
440 and 580 race sleds, a great 600 triple, a great mountain sled, and
two great rocket sleds, but they have real room to grow, but they are the
smallest co. too. By the way, Cat has by far the best front suspension
out there, it just doesn't look as good as a trailing arm.
Yamaha is really improving, lets see what happens.
What it comes down to is this, Ski-Doo has proven it's self as a company
willing to change for the better, and as the best overall sled line (no
one is saying perfect) Cat has proven that they are the leader in all out
performance, Yamaha has proven to be the best is "fit and finnish" and is
drastically improving their line, but Polaris just proves that it sells
more sleds, and with no real improvements coming lately. They just needs
to wake up and change for the better, and as Kevin said "not change for
change sake" but change because that is what is needed and wanted by the
consumers.
I admit that I may be partial to Cat, although I can also see that they
really need to start concentrating on much better trail and cruising
sleds, I mean the EXT is fair, but the cougar is a joke and the 2-ups are
nothing competitive to the others, Polaris has them there. But even you
have to admit that Ski-Doo is or is very close to the best manufacturer
out there. Yamaha is getting much better also, but they still have to
prove themselves. Where's Polaris.