2-Cycles, Long from Dead

2-Cycles, Long from Dead

Post by Mark A Zimmerm » Sat, 06 Jan 1996 04:00:00


     Did anyone see this "Beyond 2000" show about a week ago that
featured this 2-cycle engined car?  I think it was called an Echo
or something like that.  Anyway, they've done some outstanding work
on the fuel injection system and they compared the present day fuel
injection with the fuel injection that they have now.  The present
day EFI sprays a mist into the intake manifold before the cylinder
as normal.  Their fuel injection injects a gas vapor directly into
the cylinder.  Their "air sniffer" was showing extremely low exhaust
pollutants from the exhaust.  

Geez, I wish that I could remember the name of that thing.  I'm
pretty sure it was being done in California and presently, it's
in the works to be manufactured.  But it's just in the early stages
of getting that all worked out yet.  There were a couple of prototypes
already built though.

Mark Zimmerman, Indy 650, Central Wisconsin

 
 
 

2-Cycles, Long from Dead

Post by Terry Dob » Sun, 07 Jan 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
>     Did anyone see this "Beyond 2000" show about a week ago that
>featured this 2-cycle engined car?  I think it was called an Echo
>or something like that.  Anyway, they've done some outstanding work
>on the fuel injection system and they compared the present day fuel
>injection with the fuel injection that they have now.  The present
>day EFI sprays a mist into the intake manifold before the cylinder
>as normal.  Their fuel injection injects a gas vapor directly into
>the cylinder.  Their "air sniffer" was showing extremely low exhaust
>pollutants from the exhaust.  
>Geez, I wish that I could remember the name of that thing.  I'm
>pretty sure it was being done in California and presently, it's
>in the works to be manufactured.  But it's just in the early stages
>of getting that all worked out yet.  There were a couple of prototypes
>already built though.
>Mark Zimmerman, Indy 650, Central Wisconsin

Probably the engine technology developed by a company named Orbital
out of Australia.  A bunch of companies including GM have licensed the
technology.  GM was talking about it for the '97 or '98 model year but
has since either canceled or put on hold any development.

While it has not made it into cars - seems like a good idea for
snowmobiles (whoops snow machines out here).

Terry Dobie
Hailey, ID

 
 
 

2-Cycles, Long from Dead

Post by Michael Ha » Sun, 07 Jan 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>Is there any fuel injection system that works like diesel
>engines--injecting directly into the cylinder at the top of the
>compression stroke?

Yes there are several though most current designs pre-mix with
presurized air prior to injection. (current injector design doesn't
break droplets small enough). Just for kicks look for references to
"Orbital" or stop by a OMC dealer this spring. OMC is already
marketing 2 direct injection schemes.

Quote:
>Last question, why is fuel injection more fuel-efficient than
>carburetor-fuel systems (where does the fuel get wasted)?  It seems
>like metering fuel through a carburetor wouldn't be too much different
>than injecting into the intake manifold.

Biggest reason is proper mixture for air density (pressure/temp)
though in some automotive engines they actually shut off all fuel
during deceleration. Fuel resumes before anyone even notices.
I'm waiting for a self teaching closed loop system that will be quite
friendly to engine mods... It's very possible!

Michael

 
 
 

2-Cycles, Long from Dead

Post by scott » Tue, 09 Jan 1996 04:00:00

Yea!! I saw that show it was Great information about the Technology
being developed on two stroke Motors...

Scott Dowdall
Indy 600SS

 
 
 

2-Cycles, Long from Dead

Post by Chuck Ri » Tue, 09 Jan 1996 04:00:00

: Didn't see the show, but this brings to mind some questions I've been
: wondering about:

: Is all present-day fuel injection done at the intake manifold?  On
: 4-cycle engines, this would be before the intake valve.  (I was really
: surprised when I helped my 16-yr-old son change an injector on his '77
: 280Z, and saw how the injector just connected to the intake manifold).

I have read several articles, some from rec.auto.tech and some from
magazines, that have talked about some very recent technology that
allows cost efficient injection into the cylinders. I don't know why
this is any different than diesel technology, but I think the main
problem has been injecting under the high pressure required by a two
stroke. On a two stroke with no valves, I think the fuel needs to be
injected after the exhaust ports close.

: Is there any fuel injection system that works like diesel
: engines--injecting directly into the cylinder at the top of the
: compression stroke?

Most of the major auto makers and several other companies have been
working on this over the last several years. I think it was either
Snow Week or American Snowmobiler that described about four
different aproaches that are in the R&D stages at different
companies. These were all two stokes, I don't know about four
stroke engines, or understand why it would be any problem.

: Last question, why is fuel injection more fuel-efficient than
: carburetor-fuel systems (where does the fuel get wasted)?  It seems
: like metering fuel through a carburetor wouldn't be too much different
: than injecting into the intake manifold.

I think the main difference is that it is just easier to change the
duty cycle on the injectors than to change the fuel flow thru fixed
jets in real time. Before fuel injection took over there were many
carberated vehicles that had some way to change the fuel flow to
compensate for elevation.

 
 
 

2-Cycles, Long from Dead

Post by Mark A Zimmerm » Wed, 10 Jan 1996 04:00:00

: : Is there any fuel injection system that works like diesel
: : engines--injecting directly into the cylinder at the top of the
: : compression stroke?

     This was the type of injection that was featured on the
television show.  So apparently, somebody is working on it.

: : Last question, why is fuel injection more fuel-efficient than
: : carburetor-fuel systems (where does the fuel get wasted)?

     Fuel injection works better because it is injected under
pressure from an injector nozzle that has a spray pattern (100 psi
sometimes) making for a more atomized fuel vapor than where a regular
carb pulls the fuel in from having airflow past some sort of tube, etc.
And with E.F.I., you can start and stop your fuel flow whenever you
program it to do so.  Not just when the vacuum is high enough to pull it
from the carb as in regular carburetion.

Mark Zimmerman, Indy 650, Central Wisconsin

 
 
 

2-Cycles, Long from Dead

Post by Andrew K. Koti » Wed, 10 Jan 1996 04:00:00

(Sorry if this is posted incorrectly...)

On a related note, does anybody have any news about Yamaha's new "smokeless"
 2-cycle oil? I thought that I had heard that it would be coming out soon
 (at a high cost, however). Wondering if this type of oil is less polluting
 or what?

Anybody know anything about this?
Andy, '85 Excell III