Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by ZRT-800Gu » Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:13:27


I just received an early draft of an article that is going to be printed in
the March Blue Ribbon magazine.  Its all about how the environmentalists are
thrilled that snowmobilers are fighting with ATV riders, ATV riders don't
want to work with either snowmobilers or 4x4 drivers, equestrians and
mountain bikers are doing battle with motorized recreationalists, and in
general the groups aren't organizing themselves and combining to enlarge the
numbers that the environmentalists need to fight.

I have taken part in all kinds of activities, and I can see where there is
some reason for argument, but also each activity relies on others to
survive.  Its true that ATVs can tear up snowmobile trails.  It doesn't have
to be this way if the ATV riders only ride when trail conditions allow it,
and don't tear up the trails when they are soft and fragile.  On the other
hand, I've seen sledders run out and hit the trails when they are slushy and
wet, and they freeze that way and are extremely difficult to groom.  We
can't blam the ATV riders when our own kind do the same thing.

Mountain bikers and horseback riders tend to hate motorized recreation.
Think about this...where are they riding those bikes and horses?  Usually on
ATV and dirt bike trails.  The same goes for cross country skiers.  The best
trails to ski on are groomed snowmobile trails.  Its annoying for the skiers
to be in our snowmobile trails, but its also annoying to have a fast moving
sled come up on a skier.  In fact it can be scary.

Why is it that in my state, an ATV rider has to pay almost the same cost to
register an ATV that only has a few miles of legal trails to ride on, when a
sled is only a few dollars more expensive, but we have 6,000+ miles of legal
trails?  Many of those trails are maintained with state funds, but there are
very few places where the state invests any money for ATV use.  Along with
that, why are we sledders paying more money to ride our sleds for a few
months, when ATVs can ride all year?

Well back to the environmental fight.  The equestrians and mountain bikers
started out backing up the environmentalists, since they saw a chance to get
rid of the vehicles that scare them while they ride.  As happens when you
side with the devil, that came back to haunt them.  Now the
environmentalists want to keep ANY wheeled vehicles out of the forests and
desserts, and they are also closing more and more land to horseback riding,
claiming the horses disturb the wildlife.  Even downhill skiing is brought
into the picture.  Earth First caused millions of dollars of damage to the
Vail ski resort, and won't let it rest at that.

As you can see, there are some minor reasons for our groups to be arguing
among ourselves, but we should be letting those arguments esculate to the
point that we lose sight of the fact that all of our groups are in jeopardy
of losing the land we use for our recreation.  Picture the hundreds of
thousands of skiers, ATV riders, 4x4 drivers, mountain bike riders,
horseback riders, and snowmobilers combining together to fight the Sierra
Club, Earth First, Greenpeace, and the other environmental extremist
organizations.  There are enough of us out here, we just need to get
together.

The next time you see an ATV on a snowmobile trail, instead of chewing him
out for tearing up the trail, think about what would happen if that trail
didn't exist.  Stop and talk to him.  Mention your feelings calmly, then
mention how lucky we are to have the trails to ride on.  The same goes for
x/c skiers on the trails, or anyone else you thought of as an enemy to our
sport.  Instead of arguing with them, talk environmental issues.

Before any of you jump in and say forget it, we will always have trails,
think about this.  Thats what we thought about 4x4 trails here in New
Hampshire.  Now we are at the point where ALMOST EVERY 4x4 trail in the
state has been shut down.  That INCLUDES trails on private lands.  The state
slipped it through by requiring that 4x4s require written landowner
permission to use private trails.  I know, its the same for ATV use, right?
Wrong.  ATVs and snowmobiles are allowed to get blanket permission for club
use.  Thats why you can ride your sled without carrying a file cabinet of
forms with you.  We have requested this same status for 4x4 use, but have
been denied.  So, there is one activity down.  Which one is next?  Will it
be ATVs?  Probably.  They seem to be the next lowest motorized form in this
state.

Sorry I have rembled on and on, but this is a subject that means something
to me.  We need to get the word out that there is a bigger enemy than other
trail users.  Its the ones we don't see on the trails every day, because
they don't want anyone on the trails.  Think about it.

Jim
--

ZRT-800
PSI Pipes, V-Force Reeds, DG Silencer, Clutched, studded, and regeared!
www.geocities.com/zrt800guy
.

 
 
 

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by Jim Jone » Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:25:09

You make an excellent point - many, actually.  Anybody here own or ride a
watercraft?  If so, where?  They are being outlawed in many areas also.
Land ownership is one thing - who actually owns the water?  Perception is
90% of the problem.  They see us infighting, and drive the wedge in.  They
are very patient.  And devious.  The land use was to be protected FOR the
people, not FROM the people.  Wake up, everyone.  The threat is real.  Get
involved before it is too late.  Time is not on our side.  Isn't is odd that
law-abiding tourists in Yellowstone are portrayed as the "Eco-terrorists",
yet the ELFers can commit felony acts of arson and property destruction in
the name of "Save the Earth"?  And nobody seems to find that offensive?
Kind of like Osama killing innocent people in the name of religion.  Maybe
all we can hope for is they stir enough controversy that they collapse under
their own crimes.  But it's not likely.  Your kid's teachers are preaching
it to them in their schools, right into their college years when they seem
to have all the time they need to protest against us.  They skew data on
emissions of our machines.  No one seems to challenge their data, and it is
accepted as factual.  Snowmobiles place approximately 1/10 of the pressure
per square inch on the ground as a human footstep - therefore, hiking should
be outlawed instead.   Don't worry - they'll be after them soon enough.
Tread lightly, people.  PICK UP YOUR GARBAGE.  Be considerate of others.
Our sports are a privilege.  One person can wreck it for everyone.  Think.
And get involved.


Quote:
> I just received an early draft of an article that is going to be printed
in
> the March Blue Ribbon magazine.  Its all about how the environmentalists
are
> thrilled that snowmobilers are fighting with ATV riders, ATV riders don't
> want to work with either snowmobilers or 4x4 drivers, equestrians and
> mountain bikers are doing battle with motorized recreationalists, and in
> general the groups aren't organizing themselves and combining to enlarge
the
> numbers that the environmentalists need to fight.

> I have taken part in all kinds of activities, and I can see where there is
> some reason for argument, but also each activity relies on others to
> survive.  Its true that ATVs can tear up snowmobile trails.  It doesn't
have
> to be this way if the ATV riders only ride when trail conditions allow it,
> and don't tear up the trails when they are soft and fragile.  On the other
> hand, I've seen sledders run out and hit the trails when they are slushy
and
> wet, and they freeze that way and are extremely difficult to groom.  We
> can't blam the ATV riders when our own kind do the same thing.

> Mountain bikers and horseback riders tend to hate motorized recreation.
> Think about this...where are they riding those bikes and horses?  Usually
on
> ATV and dirt bike trails.  The same goes for cross country skiers.  The
best
> trails to ski on are groomed snowmobile trails.  Its annoying for the
skiers
> to be in our snowmobile trails, but its also annoying to have a fast
moving
> sled come up on a skier.  In fact it can be scary.

> Why is it that in my state, an ATV rider has to pay almost the same cost
to
> register an ATV that only has a few miles of legal trails to ride on, when
a
> sled is only a few dollars more expensive, but we have 6,000+ miles of
legal
> trails?  Many of those trails are maintained with state funds, but there
are
> very few places where the state invests any money for ATV use.  Along with
> that, why are we sledders paying more money to ride our sleds for a few
> months, when ATVs can ride all year?

> Well back to the environmental fight.  The equestrians and mountain bikers
> started out backing up the environmentalists, since they saw a chance to
get
> rid of the vehicles that scare them while they ride.  As happens when you
> side with the devil, that came back to haunt them.  Now the
> environmentalists want to keep ANY wheeled vehicles out of the forests and
> desserts, and they are also closing more and more land to horseback
riding,
> claiming the horses disturb the wildlife.  Even downhill skiing is brought
> into the picture.  Earth First caused millions of dollars of damage to the
> Vail ski resort, and won't let it rest at that.

> As you can see, there are some minor reasons for our groups to be arguing
> among ourselves, but we should be letting those arguments esculate to the
> point that we lose sight of the fact that all of our groups are in
jeopardy
> of losing the land we use for our recreation.  Picture the hundreds of
> thousands of skiers, ATV riders, 4x4 drivers, mountain bike riders,
> horseback riders, and snowmobilers combining together to fight the Sierra
> Club, Earth First, Greenpeace, and the other environmental extremist
> organizations.  There are enough of us out here, we just need to get
> together.

> The next time you see an ATV on a snowmobile trail, instead of chewing him
> out for tearing up the trail, think about what would happen if that trail
> didn't exist.  Stop and talk to him.  Mention your feelings calmly, then
> mention how lucky we are to have the trails to ride on.  The same goes for
> x/c skiers on the trails, or anyone else you thought of as an enemy to our
> sport.  Instead of arguing with them, talk environmental issues.

> Before any of you jump in and say forget it, we will always have trails,
> think about this.  Thats what we thought about 4x4 trails here in New
> Hampshire.  Now we are at the point where ALMOST EVERY 4x4 trail in the
> state has been shut down.  That INCLUDES trails on private lands.  The
state
> slipped it through by requiring that 4x4s require written landowner
> permission to use private trails.  I know, its the same for ATV use,
right?
> Wrong.  ATVs and snowmobiles are allowed to get blanket permission for
club
> use.  Thats why you can ride your sled without carrying a file cabinet of
> forms with you.  We have requested this same status for 4x4 use, but have
> been denied.  So, there is one activity down.  Which one is next?  Will it
> be ATVs?  Probably.  They seem to be the next lowest motorized form in
this
> state.

> Sorry I have rembled on and on, but this is a subject that means something
> to me.  We need to get the word out that there is a bigger enemy than
other
> trail users.  Its the ones we don't see on the trails every day, because
> they don't want anyone on the trails.  Think about it.

> Jim
> --

> ZRT-800
> PSI Pipes, V-Force Reeds, DG Silencer, Clutched, studded, and regeared!
> www.geocities.com/zrt800guy
> .


 
 
 

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by Are you one of the dummi » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 01:44:08

As a big power sports afficionado (sp?), I hate to sit by the side of a sedate
lake at dusk and hear the whine of two-stroke
jetski/pwc/whateverthe***they'recallingthemthisweek devices screaming across
the water.  Our rights to ride our toys do not supercede the rights of others
to be free of that aggravating noise.  And, those who customize them are even
worse.  Keep it up, guys, and they will be outlawed.  

Quote:
>You make an excellent point - many, actually.  Anybody here own or ride a
>watercraft?  If so, where?  They are being outlawed in many areas also.
>Land ownership is one thing - who actually owns the water?  Perception is
>90% of the problem.  They see us infighting, and drive the wedge in.  They
>are very patient.  And devious.  The land use was to be protected FOR the
>people, not FROM the people.  Wake up, everyone.  The threat is real.  Get
>involved before it is too late.  Time is not on our side.  Isn't is odd that
>law-abiding tourists in Yellowstone are portrayed as the "Eco-terrorists",
>yet the ELFers can commit felony acts of arson and property destruction in
>the name of "Save the Earth"?  And nobody seems to find that offensive?
>Kind of like Osama killing innocent people in the name of religion.  Maybe
>all we can hope for is they stir enough controversy that they collapse under
>their own crimes.  But it's not likely.  Your kid's teachers are preaching
>it to them in their schools, right into their college years when they seem
>to have all the time they need to protest against us.  They skew data on
>emissions of our machines.  No one seems to challenge their data, and it is
>accepted as factual.  Snowmobiles place approximately 1/10 of the pressure
>per square inch on the ground as a human footstep - therefore, hiking should
>be outlawed instead.   Don't worry - they'll be after them soon enough.
>Tread lightly, people.  PICK UP YOUR GARBAGE.  Be considerate of others.
>Our sports are a privilege.  One person can wreck it for everyone.  Think.
>And get involved.



>> I just received an early draft of an article that is going to be printed
>in
>> the March Blue Ribbon magazine.  Its all about how the environmentalists
>are
>> thrilled that snowmobilers are fighting with ATV riders, ATV riders don't
>> want to work with either snowmobilers or 4x4 drivers, equestrians and
>> mountain bikers are doing battle with motorized recreationalists, and in
>> general the groups aren't organizing themselves and combining to enlarge
>the
>> numbers that the environmentalists need to fight.

>> I have taken part in all kinds of activities, and I can see where there is
>> some reason for argument, but also each activity relies on others to
>> survive.  Its true that ATVs can tear up snowmobile trails.  It doesn't
>have
>> to be this way if the ATV riders only ride when trail conditions allow it,
>> and don't tear up the trails when they are soft and fragile.  On the other
>> hand, I've seen sledders run out and hit the trails when they are slushy
>and
>> wet, and they freeze that way and are extremely difficult to groom.  We
>> can't blam the ATV riders when our own kind do the same thing.

>> Mountain bikers and horseback riders tend to hate motorized recreation.
>> Think about this...where are they riding those bikes and horses?  Usually
>on
>> ATV and dirt bike trails.  The same goes for cross country skiers.  The
>best
>> trails to ski on are groomed snowmobile trails.  Its annoying for the
>skiers
>> to be in our snowmobile trails, but its also annoying to have a fast
>moving
>> sled come up on a skier.  In fact it can be scary.

>> Why is it that in my state, an ATV rider has to pay almost the same cost
>to
>> register an ATV that only has a few miles of legal trails to ride on, when
>a
>> sled is only a few dollars more expensive, but we have 6,000+ miles of
>legal
>> trails?  Many of those trails are maintained with state funds, but there
>are
>> very few places where the state invests any money for ATV use.  Along with
>> that, why are we sledders paying more money to ride our sleds for a few
>> months, when ATVs can ride all year?

>> Well back to the environmental fight.  The equestrians and mountain bikers
>> started out backing up the environmentalists, since they saw a chance to
>get
>> rid of the vehicles that scare them while they ride.  As happens when you
>> side with the devil, that came back to haunt them.  Now the
>> environmentalists want to keep ANY wheeled vehicles out of the forests and
>> desserts, and they are also closing more and more land to horseback
>riding,
>> claiming the horses disturb the wildlife.  Even downhill skiing is brought
>> into the picture.  Earth First caused millions of dollars of damage to the
>> Vail ski resort, and won't let it rest at that.

>> As you can see, there are some minor reasons for our groups to be arguing
>> among ourselves, but we should be letting those arguments esculate to the
>> point that we lose sight of the fact that all of our groups are in
>jeopardy
>> of losing the land we use for our recreation.  Picture the hundreds of
>> thousands of skiers, ATV riders, 4x4 drivers, mountain bike riders,
>> horseback riders, and snowmobilers combining together to fight the Sierra
>> Club, Earth First, Greenpeace, and the other environmental extremist
>> organizations.  There are enough of us out here, we just need to get
>> together.

>> The next time you see an ATV on a snowmobile trail, instead of chewing him
>> out for tearing up the trail, think about what would happen if that trail
>> didn't exist.  Stop and talk to him.  Mention your feelings calmly, then
>> mention how lucky we are to have the trails to ride on.  The same goes for
>> x/c skiers on the trails, or anyone else you thought of as an enemy to our
>> sport.  Instead of arguing with them, talk environmental issues.

>> Before any of you jump in and say forget it, we will always have trails,
>> think about this.  Thats what we thought about 4x4 trails here in New
>> Hampshire.  Now we are at the point where ALMOST EVERY 4x4 trail in the
>> state has been shut down.  That INCLUDES trails on private lands.  The
>state
>> slipped it through by requiring that 4x4s require written landowner
>> permission to use private trails.  I know, its the same for ATV use,
>right?
>> Wrong.  ATVs and snowmobiles are allowed to get blanket permission for
>club
>> use.  Thats why you can ride your sled without carrying a file cabinet of
>> forms with you.  We have requested this same status for 4x4 use, but have
>> been denied.  So, there is one activity down.  Which one is next?  Will it
>> be ATVs?  Probably.  They seem to be the next lowest motorized form in
>this
>> state.

>> Sorry I have rembled on and on, but this is a subject that means something
>> to me.  We need to get the word out that there is a bigger enemy than
>other
>> trail users.  Its the ones we don't see on the trails every day, because
>> they don't want anyone on the trails.  Think about it.

>> Jim
>> --

>> ZRT-800
>> PSI Pipes, V-Force Reeds, DG Silencer, Clutched, studded, and regeared!
>> www.geocities.com/zrt800guy

Guys, don't be a dummy!

 
 
 

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by ZRT-800Gu » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:25:01

Whats the difference between a Jet Ski on the lake in the summer, or a sled
screaming across it in the winter? My point is that we all need to join
together, and not do exactly what you are doing- pointing a finger at who's
to blame. We are all to blame. The environmentalists don't care if we ride a
sled, a jet-ski, dirt bike, atv, or whatever. They want us gone. We can't
all sit around and come up with reasons why our group should be allowed to
ride, but another shouldn't...why shouldn't they? You don't think the
Jet-Skiers sit around and talk about us? "Hey, we only ride in water, and
don't bother animals...we don't leave tracks...leave us alone and nail the
sledders. They wake me up at night when they ride by the house."  The
jet-skis are noisy.  So are sleds. Do you ride a 2 stroke or 4 stroke? If
you ride a 2 stroke, then you could be quieter by riding a 4 stroke. You
don't want to? Fine, just don't give the jet-skiers ***for making the same
choice.

I have taken part in just about every type of motorized recreation at some
time or another, with the exception of riding a jet-ski, but someday I'll
probably ride one, and maybe even own one. We all have our good and bad
points. Get over them and realize that we are all on the same team fighting
a larger enemy.

Jim
--

ZRT-800
PSI Pipes, V-Force Reeds, DG Silencer, Clutched, studded, and regeared!
www.geocities.com/zrt800guy
.


Quote:
> As a big power sports afficionado (sp?), I hate to sit by the side of a
sedate
> lake at dusk and hear the whine of two-stroke
> jetski/pwc/whateverthe***they'recallingthemthisweek devices screaming
across
> the water.  Our rights to ride our toys do not supercede the rights of
others
> to be free of that aggravating noise.  And, those who customize them are
even
> worse.  Keep it up, guys, and they will be outlawed.

> >You make an excellent point - many, actually.  Anybody here own or ride a
> >watercraft?  If so, where?  They are being outlawed in many areas also.
> >Land ownership is one thing - who actually owns the water?  Perception is
> >90% of the problem.  They see us infighting, and drive the wedge in.
They
> >are very patient.  And devious.  The land use was to be protected FOR the
> >people, not FROM the people.  Wake up, everyone.  The threat is real.
Get
> >involved before it is too late.  Time is not on our side.  Isn't is odd
that
> >law-abiding tourists in Yellowstone are portrayed as the
"Eco-terrorists",
> >yet the ELFers can commit felony acts of arson and property destruction
in
> >the name of "Save the Earth"?  And nobody seems to find that offensive?
> >Kind of like Osama killing innocent people in the name of religion.
Maybe
> >all we can hope for is they stir enough controversy that they collapse
under
> >their own crimes.  But it's not likely.  Your kid's teachers are
preaching
> >it to them in their schools, right into their college years when they
seem
> >to have all the time they need to protest against us.  They skew data on
> >emissions of our machines.  No one seems to challenge their data, and it
is
> >accepted as factual.  Snowmobiles place approximately 1/10 of the
pressure
> >per square inch on the ground as a human footstep - therefore, hiking
should
> >be outlawed instead.   Don't worry - they'll be after them soon enough.
> >Tread lightly, people.  PICK UP YOUR GARBAGE.  Be considerate of others.
> >Our sports are a privilege.  One person can wreck it for everyone.
Think.
> >And get involved.



> >> I just received an early draft of an article that is going to be
printed
> >in
> >> the March Blue Ribbon magazine.  Its all about how the
environmentalists
> >are
> >> thrilled that snowmobilers are fighting with ATV riders, ATV riders
don't
> >> want to work with either snowmobilers or 4x4 drivers, equestrians and
> >> mountain bikers are doing battle with motorized recreationalists, and
in
> >> general the groups aren't organizing themselves and combining to
enlarge
> >the
> >> numbers that the environmentalists need to fight.

> >> I have taken part in all kinds of activities, and I can see where there
is
> >> some reason for argument, but also each activity relies on others to
> >> survive.  Its true that ATVs can tear up snowmobile trails.  It doesn't
> >have
> >> to be this way if the ATV riders only ride when trail conditions allow
it,
> >> and don't tear up the trails when they are soft and fragile.  On the
other
> >> hand, I've seen sledders run out and hit the trails when they are
slushy
> >and
> >> wet, and they freeze that way and are extremely difficult to groom.  We
> >> can't blam the ATV riders when our own kind do the same thing.

> >> Mountain bikers and horseback riders tend to hate motorized recreation.
> >> Think about this...where are they riding those bikes and horses?
Usually
> >on
> >> ATV and dirt bike trails.  The same goes for cross country skiers.  The
> >best
> >> trails to ski on are groomed snowmobile trails.  Its annoying for the
> >skiers
> >> to be in our snowmobile trails, but its also annoying to have a fast
> >moving
> >> sled come up on a skier.  In fact it can be scary.

> >> Why is it that in my state, an ATV rider has to pay almost the same
cost
> >to
> >> register an ATV that only has a few miles of legal trails to ride on,
when
> >a
> >> sled is only a few dollars more expensive, but we have 6,000+ miles of
> >legal
> >> trails?  Many of those trails are maintained with state funds, but
there
> >are
> >> very few places where the state invests any money for ATV use.  Along
with
> >> that, why are we sledders paying more money to ride our sleds for a few
> >> months, when ATVs can ride all year?

> >> Well back to the environmental fight.  The equestrians and mountain
bikers
> >> started out backing up the environmentalists, since they saw a chance
to
> >get
> >> rid of the vehicles that scare them while they ride.  As happens when
you
> >> side with the devil, that came back to haunt them.  Now the
> >> environmentalists want to keep ANY wheeled vehicles out of the forests
and
> >> desserts, and they are also closing more and more land to horseback
> >riding,
> >> claiming the horses disturb the wildlife.  Even downhill skiing is
brought
> >> into the picture.  Earth First caused millions of dollars of damage to
the
> >> Vail ski resort, and won't let it rest at that.

> >> As you can see, there are some minor reasons for our groups to be
arguing
> >> among ourselves, but we should be letting those arguments esculate to
the
> >> point that we lose sight of the fact that all of our groups are in
> >jeopardy
> >> of losing the land we use for our recreation.  Picture the hundreds of
> >> thousands of skiers, ATV riders, 4x4 drivers, mountain bike riders,
> >> horseback riders, and snowmobilers combining together to fight the
Sierra
> >> Club, Earth First, Greenpeace, and the other environmental extremist
> >> organizations.  There are enough of us out here, we just need to get
> >> together.

> >> The next time you see an ATV on a snowmobile trail, instead of chewing
him
> >> out for tearing up the trail, think about what would happen if that
trail
> >> didn't exist.  Stop and talk to him.  Mention your feelings calmly,
then
> >> mention how lucky we are to have the trails to ride on.  The same goes
for
> >> x/c skiers on the trails, or anyone else you thought of as an enemy to
our
> >> sport.  Instead of arguing with them, talk environmental issues.

> >> Before any of you jump in and say forget it, we will always have
trails,
> >> think about this.  Thats what we thought about 4x4 trails here in New
> >> Hampshire.  Now we are at the point where ALMOST EVERY 4x4 trail in the
> >> state has been shut down.  That INCLUDES trails on private lands.  The
> >state
> >> slipped it through by requiring that 4x4s require written landowner
> >> permission to use private trails.  I know, its the same for ATV use,
> >right?
> >> Wrong.  ATVs and snowmobiles are allowed to get blanket permission for
> >club
> >> use.  Thats why you can ride your sled without carrying a file cabinet
of
> >> forms with you.  We have requested this same status for 4x4 use, but
have
> >> been denied.  So, there is one activity down.  Which one is next?  Will
it
> >> be ATVs?  Probably.  They seem to be the next lowest motorized form in
> >this
> >> state.

> >> Sorry I have rembled on and on, but this is a subject that means
something
> >> to me.  We need to get the word out that there is a bigger enemy than
> >other
> >> trail users.  Its the ones we don't see on the trails every day,
because
> >> they don't want anyone on the trails.  Think about it.

> >> Jim
> >> --

> >> ZRT-800
> >> PSI Pipes, V-Force Reeds, DG Silencer, Clutched, studded, and regeared!
> >> www.geocities.com/zrt800guy

> Guys, don't be a dummy!

 
 
 

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by Are you one of the dummi » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 01:44:30

Typical!  You completely missed my point.  That is, I'm with the enviros on
this one.  I am disgusted hearing all the loud-ass boats with open headers and
jetskis that buzz annoyingly everywhere, without limitation.  If they stuck to
one side of the lake or anything, it wouldn't be so bad. (This is
alliteration--teaching by example--not fingerpointing--I'm trying to
demonstrate a point, not ban jetskis) Now, I'm a two-stroke guy from way back,
but if I am pissed off at being annoyed by these buzzing gnats all day long,
then I must seriously empathize with the retirees and enviros, who don't like
those toys to start with!  Like my buddy across the high-rise canyon (street)
here, who was blasting his stereo all summer long.  I was about to shoot him.
Even though he was playing my hard rock that I love.  The point is, I didn't
want to hear it when I wasn't playing it.  Do you comprehend?  You will not
BEAT the enviros.  What you must do is work to appease them, and loud,
aftermarket exhausts for one thing are not the way to appease them!
Quote:
>Whats the difference between a Jet Ski on the lake in the summer, or a sled
>screaming across it in the winter? My point is that we all need to join
>together, and not do exactly what you are doing- pointing a finger at who's
>to blame. We are all to blame. The environmentalists don't care if we ride a
>sled, a jet-ski, dirt bike, atv, or whatever. They want us gone. We can't
>all sit around and come up with reasons why our group should be allowed to
>ride, but another shouldn't...why shouldn't they? You don't think the
>Jet-Skiers sit around and talk about us? "Hey, we only ride in water, and
>don't bother animals...we don't leave tracks...leave us alone and nail the
>sledders. They wake me up at night when they ride by the house."  The
>jet-skis are noisy.  So are sleds. Do you ride a 2 stroke or 4 stroke? If
>you ride a 2 stroke, then you could be quieter by riding a 4 stroke. You
>don't want to? Fine, just don't give the jet-skiers ***for making the same
>choice.

>I have taken part in just about every type of motorized recreation at some
>time or another, with the exception of riding a jet-ski, but someday I'll
>probably ride one, and maybe even own one. We all have our good and bad
>points. Get over them and realize that we are all on the same team fighting
>a larger enemy.

>Jim
>--

>ZRT-800
>PSI Pipes, V-Force Reeds, DG Silencer, Clutched, studded, and regeared!
>www.geocities.com/zrt800guy
>.


>> As a big power sports afficionado (sp?), I hate to sit by the side of a
>sedate
>> lake at dusk and hear the whine of two-stroke
>> jetski/pwc/whateverthe***they'recallingthemthisweek devices screaming
>across
>> the water.  Our rights to ride our toys do not supercede the rights of
>others
>> to be free of that aggravating noise.  And, those who customize them are
>even
>> worse.  Keep it up, guys, and they will be outlawed.

>> >You make an excellent point - many, actually.  Anybody here own or ride a
>> >watercraft?  If so, where?  They are being outlawed in many areas also.
>> >Land ownership is one thing - who actually owns the water?  Perception is
>> >90% of the problem.  They see us infighting, and drive the wedge in.
>They
>> >are very patient.  And devious.  The land use was to be protected FOR the
>> >people, not FROM the people.  Wake up, everyone.  The threat is real.
>Get
>> >involved before it is too late.  Time is not on our side.  Isn't is odd
>that
>> >law-abiding tourists in Yellowstone are portrayed as the
>"Eco-terrorists",
>> >yet the ELFers can commit felony acts of arson and property destruction
>in
>> >the name of "Save the Earth"?  And nobody seems to find that offensive?
>> >Kind of like Osama killing innocent people in the name of religion.
>Maybe
>> >all we can hope for is they stir enough controversy that they collapse
>under
>> >their own crimes.  But it's not likely.  Your kid's teachers are
>preaching
>> >it to them in their schools, right into their college years when they
>seem
>> >to have all the time they need to protest against us.  They skew data on
>> >emissions of our machines.  No one seems to challenge their data, and it
>is
>> >accepted as factual.  Snowmobiles place approximately 1/10 of the
>pressure
>> >per square inch on the ground as a human footstep - therefore, hiking
>should
>> >be outlawed instead.   Don't worry - they'll be after them soon enough.
>> >Tread lightly, people.  PICK UP YOUR GARBAGE.  Be considerate of others.
>> >Our sports are a privilege.  One person can wreck it for everyone.
>Think.
>> >And get involved.



>> >> I just received an early draft of an article that is going to be
>printed
>> >in
>> >> the March Blue Ribbon magazine.  Its all about how the
>environmentalists
>> >are
>> >> thrilled that snowmobilers are fighting with ATV riders, ATV riders
>don't
>> >> want to work with either snowmobilers or 4x4 drivers, equestrians and
>> >> mountain bikers are doing battle with motorized recreationalists, and
>in
>> >> general the groups aren't organizing themselves and combining to
>enlarge
>> >the
>> >> numbers that the environmentalists need to fight.

>> >> I have taken part in all kinds of activities, and I can see where there
>is
>> >> some reason for argument, but also each activity relies on others to
>> >> survive.  Its true that ATVs can tear up snowmobile trails.  It doesn't
>> >have
>> >> to be this way if the ATV riders only ride when trail conditions allow
>it,
>> >> and don't tear up the trails when they are soft and fragile.  On the
>other
>> >> hand, I've seen sledders run out and hit the trails when they are
>slushy
>> >and
>> >> wet, and they freeze that way and are extremely difficult to groom.  We
>> >> can't blam the ATV riders when our own kind do the same thing.

>> >> Mountain bikers and horseback riders tend to hate motorized recreation.
>> >> Think about this...where are they riding those bikes and horses?
>Usually
>> >on
>> >> ATV and dirt bike trails.  The same goes for cross country skiers.  The
>> >best
>> >> trails to ski on are groomed snowmobile trails.  Its annoying for the
>> >skiers
>> >> to be in our snowmobile trails, but its also annoying to have a fast
>> >moving
>> >> sled come up on a skier.  In fact it can be scary.

>> >> Why is it that in my state, an ATV rider has to pay almost the same
>cost
>> >to
>> >> register an ATV that only has a few miles of legal trails to ride on,
>when
>> >a
>> >> sled is only a few dollars more expensive, but we have 6,000+ miles of
>> >legal
>> >> trails?  Many of those trails are maintained with state funds, but
>there
>> >are
>> >> very few places where the state invests any money for ATV use.  Along
>with
>> >> that, why are we sledders paying more money to ride our sleds for a few
>> >> months, when ATVs can ride all year?

>> >> Well back to the environmental fight.  The equestrians and mountain
>bikers
>> >> started out backing up the environmentalists, since they saw a chance
>to
>> >get
>> >> rid of the vehicles that scare them while they ride.  As happens when
>you
>> >> side with the devil, that came back to haunt them.  Now the
>> >> environmentalists want to keep ANY wheeled vehicles out of the forests
>and
>> >> desserts, and they are also closing more and more land to horseback
>> >riding,
>> >> claiming the horses disturb the wildlife.  Even downhill skiing is
>brought
>> >> into the picture.  Earth First caused millions of dollars of damage to
>the
>> >> Vail ski resort, and won't let it rest at that.

>> >> As you can see, there are some minor reasons for our groups to be
>arguing
>> >> among ourselves, but we should be letting those arguments esculate to
>the
>> >> point that we lose sight of the fact that all of our groups are in
>> >jeopardy
>> >> of losing the land we use for our recreation.  Picture the hundreds of
>> >> thousands of skiers, ATV riders, 4x4 drivers, mountain bike riders,
>> >> horseback riders, and snowmobilers combining together to fight the
>Sierra
>> >> Club, Earth First, Greenpeace, and the other environmental extremist
>> >> organizations.  There are enough of us out here, we just need to get
>> >> together.

>> >> The next time you see an ATV on a snowmobile trail, instead of chewing
>him
>> >> out for tearing up the trail, think about what would happen if that
>trail
>> >> didn't exist.  Stop and talk to him.  Mention your feelings calmly,
>then
>> >> mention how lucky we are to have the trails to ride on.  The same goes
>for
>> >> x/c skiers on the trails, or anyone else you thought of as an enemy to
>our
>> >> sport.  Instead of arguing with them, talk environmental issues.

>> >> Before any of you jump in and say forget it, we will always have
>trails,
>> >> think about this.  Thats what we thought about 4x4 trails here in New
>> >> Hampshire.  Now we are at the point where ALMOST EVERY 4x4 trail in the
>> >> state has been shut down.  That INCLUDES trails on private lands.  The
>> >state
>> >> slipped it through by requiring that 4x4s require written landowner
>> >> permission to use private trails.  I know, its the same for ATV use,
>> >right?
>> >> Wrong.  ATVs and snowmobiles are allowed to get blanket permission for
>> >club
>> >> use.  Thats why you can ride your sled without carrying a file cabinet
>of
>> >> forms with you.  We have requested this same status for 4x4 use, but
>have
>> >> been denied.  So, there is one activity down.  Which one is next?  Will
>it
>> >> be ATVs?  Probably.  They seem to be the next lowest motorized form in
>> >this
>> >> state.

>> >> Sorry I have rembled on and on, but this is a subject that means
>something
>> >> to me.  We need to get the

...

read more »

 
 
 

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by Andy Drago » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 03:39:51



Quote:
> Typical!  You completely missed my point.  That is, I'm with the enviros
on
> this one.  I am disgusted hearing all the loud-ass boats with open headers
and
> jetskis that buzz annoyingly everywhere, without limitation.  If they
stuck to
> one side of the lake or anything, it wouldn't be so bad.

Please, I live on the water in a natural valley.  PWC make no more noise
than sleds in the summer.  It's the bastards ripping up and down in a small
bay at over 50 mph with their POS cigar boats so damn loud that they rattle
my windows.

The PWC around here go out of the bay and ride in the open water.  Not so of
the jackasses with the huge cigar boats who ride up and down the bay all day
long with their "look at me attitude".

You sound jealous.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Typical of most greenies.

--
~Andy
'01 Kawasaki KX 250 / '01 Honda CR 125
'02 Skidoo MXZX 800 / '00 Skidoo MXZX 600
'99 Seadoo GSX Limited
and more...

 
 
 

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by Are you one of the dummi » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:19:33

That's funny!  Calling Speedy a "greenie!"  I own three jeeps (gas hogs, one
and all!), six motorcycles (well, alright, three of em are four strokes), and
two snowmobiles.  You're just too ***ing stupid to face the facts.  I made
statements of fact, which you and that other utter idiot mistook to be siding
with the enviros.  Who sounds jealous?  You're the one drooling over the
"cigar" boat!   If I wanted a jetski, I'd buy one.  I just don't find them at
all practical.  The plain fact is that sleds are heard at one point on a trail,
perhaps near an abode, then they're gone.  Okay, so maybe another batch of
sleds comes along.  ON small inland lakes, PWC's go AROUND AND AROUND AROUND
AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND AND
AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND.  They're like
flies on a dead cow.

Again, so you mindless ***s don't miss the point:  IF A DEDICATED rider CANNOT
STAND ANOTHER TOY THAT MAKES NOISE ALL DAY LONG AND ALL NIGHT LONG, THEN what
do you think the greenies/enviros are thinking?????  Our toys are too ***ing
loud.  If we don't fix the noise, then I'm all with the others.  Get rid of
'em.  Your right to ride does not supercede my right to peace and quiet.  Oh,
and by the way, numbnuts, sound on a lake with no snow carries for MILES
farther than sound on a lake (or in the woods) dampened and muffled by any
snow!   That's how I convinced my folks to let me get and use my first sled on
their property.  Up close the sled was loud.  Okay.  Across the creek the sled
wasn't so loud.  However, my buddy lives in a condo on Lakeshore Drive in
Chicago.  You can hear the blasted jetskis all day long.  How long do you think
that's gonna last when you're pissing off millionaire property owners?  Not
much longer.  In fact, they're being banned all over the place.  It's deserved.
And, by virtue of having made this statement, I am not necessarily an
environmental wacko.

Guys, don't be a dummy!

 
 
 

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by ZRT-800Gu » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:28:30

So you sound like the type of guy who wants to be able to do his thing, but
nobody else can do theirs...I can see where you would fit in with the
enviros. They took away a large property from someone in California who
owned a cabin there, in the name of protecting the area. They then tore down
the cabin and built a huge lodge, that only the enviros can use. Nice.

In your case, you ride your sled in the winter, but once you put it away,
you don't want to hear the sound of a 2 stroke. I live not too far from a
sand pit. I don't ride dirt bikes any more, but in the summer I used to be
able to hear them all the time. Never bothered me. Now the pits are closed
to motorized use though, so I don't hear them any more. Funny...I actually
miss the sound of them.

I see and hear things all the time that I don't like, especially from my
neighbors. I put up with it, because I know I do things they might not like.
I have one neighbor who opened up a used car dealer and repair shop. He
compains to the town and anyone else who will listen that I make too much
noise, I have too many cars in my yard, my bike is too loud, etc. When I
worked 2nd shift, I had to go to bed at 2-3am (I'm still stick on those
hours) but in the summer I was always awake at 6am when the air tools
started running outside, or a car was running in his yard with no exhaust.
Its O.K. for him, but not O.K. for me. You sound a lot like him.

Jim

--

ZRT-800
PSI Pipes, V-Force Reeds, DG Silencer, Clutched, studded, and regeared!
www.geocities.com/zrt800guy
.


Quote:
> Typical!  You completely missed my point.  That is, I'm with the enviros
on
> this one.  I am disgusted hearing all the loud-ass boats with open headers
and
> jetskis that buzz annoyingly everywhere, without limitation.  If they
stuck to
> one side of the lake or anything, it wouldn't be so bad. (This is
> alliteration--teaching by example--not fingerpointing--I'm trying to
> demonstrate a point, not ban jetskis) Now, I'm a two-stroke guy from way
back,
> but if I am pissed off at being annoyed by these buzzing gnats all day
long,
> then I must seriously empathize with the retirees and enviros, who don't
like
> those toys to start with!  Like my buddy across the high-rise canyon
(street)
> here, who was blasting his stereo all summer long.  I was about to shoot
him.
> Even though he was playing my hard rock that I love.  The point is, I
didn't
> want to hear it when I wasn't playing it.  Do you comprehend?  You will
not
> BEAT the enviros.  What you must do is work to appease them, and loud,
> aftermarket exhausts for one thing are not the way to appease them!

> >Whats the difference between a Jet Ski on the lake in the summer, or a
sled
> >screaming across it in the winter? My point is that we all need to join
> >together, and not do exactly what you are doing- pointing a finger at
who's
> >to blame. We are all to blame. The environmentalists don't care if we
ride a
> >sled, a jet-ski, dirt bike, atv, or whatever. They want us gone. We can't
> >all sit around and come up with reasons why our group should be allowed
to
> >ride, but another shouldn't...why shouldn't they? You don't think the
> >Jet-Skiers sit around and talk about us? "Hey, we only ride in water, and
> >don't bother animals...we don't leave tracks...leave us alone and nail
the
> >sledders. They wake me up at night when they ride by the house."  The
> >jet-skis are noisy.  So are sleds. Do you ride a 2 stroke or 4 stroke? If
> >you ride a 2 stroke, then you could be quieter by riding a 4 stroke. You
> >don't want to? Fine, just don't give the jet-skiers ***for making the
same
> >choice.

> >I have taken part in just about every type of motorized recreation at
some
> >time or another, with the exception of riding a jet-ski, but someday I'll
> >probably ride one, and maybe even own one. We all have our good and bad
> >points. Get over them and realize that we are all on the same team
fighting
> >a larger enemy.

> >Jim
> >--

> >ZRT-800
> >PSI Pipes, V-Force Reeds, DG Silencer, Clutched, studded, and regeared!
> >www.geocities.com/zrt800guy

 
 
 

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by Andy Drago » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:36:13



Quote:
> That's funny!  Calling Speedy a "greenie!"  I own three jeeps (gas hogs,
one
> and all!), six motorcycles (well, alright, three of em are four strokes),
and
> two snowmobiles.  You're just too ***ing stupid to face the facts.

Yes, I'm stupid.  I'm so sorry to have doubted you.  My mere 164 IQ could
hardly comprehend your facts.

Quote:
> Who sounds jealous?  You're the one drooling over the
> "cigar" boat!

Trust me, I'm gonna take my Dad's 303 Enfield and climb a tree near my
property and blow a big hole through that bastard's noisy boat.  That way I
can enjoy sailing my boat in peace and quiet.

Quote:
> The plain fact is that sleds are heard at one point on a trail,
> perhaps near an abode, then they're gone.  Okay, so maybe another batch of
> sleds comes along.  ON small inland lakes, PWC's go AROUND AND AROUND
AROUND
> AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND
AND
> AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND.  They're
like
> flies on a dead cow.

You are obviously biased.  There are plenty of sleds that puddle jump just
down from me.  They make no more and no less noise than the PWC.  Ever use a
noise meter?  Post the facts or shut up.

Quote:
> Again, so you mindless ***s don't miss the point:  IF A DEDICATED rider
CANNOT
> STAND ANOTHER TOY THAT MAKES NOISE ALL DAY LONG AND ALL NIGHT LONG, THEN
what
> do you think the greenies/enviros are thinking?????

Your language and posting style is sure proving which end of the gene pool
you came from.  Of course, you have a long history of proving you are an
ass, so lead on MacDuff.

Quote:
> Our toys are too ***ing
> loud.  If we don't fix the noise, then I'm all with the others.

Where's the facts?  Or do you believe all the junk science of the extreme
green?

Quote:
> Get rid of
> 'em.  Your right to ride does not supercede my right to peace and quiet.

Hey, Speedy...point to the right in the constitution which garrantee's your
peace and quiet.  Genius.

Quote:
> Oh,
> and by the way, numbnuts, sound on a lake with no snow carries for MILES
> farther than sound on a lake (or in the woods) dampened and muffled by any
> snow!

Sorry, as part of a study I helped the town conduct to protect the rights of
PWC riders, the noise level was well within 3 dB from all distances - from
shore, from 500 m, from 2km and 5km.  So much for that argument.

Quote:
> How long do you think
> that's gonna last when you're pissing off millionaire property owners?

That would be me.  I don't mind the guys who pass out of the bay into the
open water.  So much for that argument.

Quote:
> Not
> much longer.  In fact, they're being banned all over the place.  It's

deserved.

Well, you let PWC get banned and sleds and ATVs/dirt bikes are next.  Enjoy
sitting on your lazy ass when the eco-dinks have taken away all of our
hobbies.  I'll be here to point my finger right in your face.

Quote:
> And, by virtue of having made this statement, I am not necessarily an
> environmental wacko.

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.  Guess it's a duck.

--
~Andy
'01 Kawasaki KX 250 / '01 Honda CR 125
'02 Skidoo MXZX 800 / '00 Skidoo MXZX 600
'99 Seadoo GSX Limited
and more...

 
 
 

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by John Wentwort » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:28:05

Quote:
>  Remember, ZRT800-Guy, "Blessed be the peace maker, for he shall have the

living snot beat out of him". I forget who said that.

I agree that motorized recreational sports are all being attacked, sometimes
with cause. But, many times, it's simply that all are minority sports, and
the mainstream just sees the problems, not the benefits.

Now I sound like Mr. Rogers. Time for a beer.

 
 
 

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by spark » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:44:49

Quote:
> Whats the difference between a Jet Ski on the lake in the summer, or a

sled

In the winter, the average Joe non-rider is inside with his/her windows
closed. In the summer they are outside. I believe this is in part of the
acceptance problem with ATV's as well. ATV's also leave a dust cloud.

Don't get me wrong, I grew up on Skaneateles Lake, had a boat. I worked at
Otisco Lake Marina for 4 years while I went to college. Used to tear up that
lake with Baja's with 235hp V6 outboards. I own a 4x4 ATV and a sled and may
buy a street bike this year.

But all these sports are in trouble because more than a few are VERY
thoughtless riders that never seem to use their brains. We ride our ATV's in
Lewis County on the Tug Hill. The seasonal roads are open to wheelers. But I
stop riding completely in the fall hunting season even though I can legally
ride. I want the hunters to have their time undisturbed. All my machines
have stock, quiet mufflers. I stay on the trails.

 
 
 

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by ZRT-800Gu » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:59:44

The greenies don't care about the noise as much as the emissions...which is
why they go after the 2 strokes the most. And I never insulted you, or used
the kind of language you did, I was just pointing out that we have to stop
doing exactly what you are doing...coming up with our own reasons why one
sport is better than another. We CAN beat the greenies, and in fact right
now one was sentenced for acts of terrorism after burning numerous houses in
the southwest. He got quite a bit of jail time. As I remember in the
article, he was literally crying during sentencing. I love it. We CAN win.
We outnumber them, we just have to ban together. Oh well, talking to some
people is like talking to a pole.

Jim

--

ZRT-800
PSI Pipes, V-Force Reeds, DG Silencer, Clutched, studded, and regeared!
www.geocities.com/zrt800guy
.


Quote:
> That's funny!  Calling Speedy a "greenie!"  I own three jeeps (gas hogs,
one
> and all!), six motorcycles (well, alright, three of em are four strokes),
and
> two snowmobiles.  You're just too ***ing stupid to face the facts.  I
made
> statements of fact, which you and that other utter idiot mistook to be
siding
> with the enviros.  Who sounds jealous?  You're the one drooling over the
> "cigar" boat!   If I wanted a jetski, I'd buy one.  I just don't find them
at
> all practical.  The plain fact is that sleds are heard at one point on a
trail,
> perhaps near an abode, then they're gone.  Okay, so maybe another batch of
> sleds comes along.  ON small inland lakes, PWC's go AROUND AND AROUND
AROUND
> AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND
AND
> AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND AROUND AND AROUND.  They're
like
> flies on a dead cow.

> Again, so you mindless ***s don't miss the point:  IF A DEDICATED rider
CANNOT
> STAND ANOTHER TOY THAT MAKES NOISE ALL DAY LONG AND ALL NIGHT LONG, THEN
what
> do you think the greenies/enviros are thinking?????  Our toys are too
***ing
> loud.  If we don't fix the noise, then I'm all with the others.  Get rid
of
> 'em.  Your right to ride does not supercede my right to peace and quiet.
Oh,
> and by the way, numbnuts, sound on a lake with no snow carries for MILES
> farther than sound on a lake (or in the woods) dampened and muffled by any
> snow!   That's how I convinced my folks to let me get and use my first
sled on
> their property.  Up close the sled was loud.  Okay.  Across the creek the
sled
> wasn't so loud.  However, my buddy lives in a condo on Lakeshore Drive in
> Chicago.  You can hear the blasted jetskis all day long.  How long do you
think
> that's gonna last when you're pissing off millionaire property owners?
Not
> much longer.  In fact, they're being banned all over the place.  It's
deserved.
> And, by virtue of having made this statement, I am not necessarily an
> environmental wacko.

> Guys, don't be a dummy!

 
 
 

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by ZRT-800Gu » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 14:05:20

Good man...someone who can see that we have differences, and can also
understand that one sport has no more right to exist than another.
Personally I get tweaked when someone rides by my house in the summer on a
zoom-splat bike at 100+ mph on a small state road with a speed limit of 35.
I would never do that. I own a fast bike, and have had it up to 155+, but I
was nowhere near houses, nowhere near other traffic, and the only one who
could be killed was me. There wasn't anyone to***off. Its the same with
sledders or any other sport...there is going to be someone who is stupid
enough to do somehting to bring attention to themselves, and give others a
bad impression of the sport. The Jet-Ski topic is the same...most go out on
larger lakes, away from houses, and do their thing. Some come too close to
shore on a small pond and***off the residents. Don't blame jet-skis,
blame the couple of idiots who are careless.

Jim
--

ZRT-800
PSI Pipes, V-Force Reeds, DG Silencer, Clutched, studded, and regeared!
www.geocities.com/zrt800guy
.

Quote:
> > Whats the difference between a Jet Ski on the lake in the summer, or a
> sled

> In the winter, the average Joe non-rider is inside with his/her windows
> closed. In the summer they are outside. I believe this is in part of the
> acceptance problem with ATV's as well. ATV's also leave a dust cloud.

> Don't get me wrong, I grew up on Skaneateles Lake, had a boat. I worked at
> Otisco Lake Marina for 4 years while I went to college. Used to tear up
that
> lake with Baja's with 235hp V6 outboards. I own a 4x4 ATV and a sled and
may
> buy a street bike this year.

> But all these sports are in trouble because more than a few are VERY
> thoughtless riders that never seem to use their brains. We ride our ATV's
in
> Lewis County on the Tug Hill. The seasonal roads are open to wheelers. But
I
> stop riding completely in the fall hunting season even though I can
legally
> ride. I want the hunters to have their time undisturbed. All my machines
> have stock, quiet mufflers. I stay on the trails.

 
 
 

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by ZRT-800Gu » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 14:08:36

Phoenix Arsonist Gets 18 Years
Associated Press
Last Updated: Feb. 12, 2002 at 6:38:43 a.m.
PHOENIX - Weeping and apologizing to his victims, a man was
sentenced to 18
years in prison for torching seven luxury homes under
construction as he
tried to stop development near protected desert areas.
Mark Sands, 50, also must pay $2.8 million in restitution,
U.S. District
Judge Susan Bolton said during Monday's sentencing.
Sands cried as he apologized to his family and victims who
attended his
sentencing hearing.
``I believed then - and yes, it was arrogant - that the
fires and threats
would make a difference,'' he said. ``There is no
environmental or religious
excuse for terrorism of any kind.''
Sands pleaded guilty in November to eight counts of
extortion and one count
of using fire to commit a federal felony. Arson charges that
were part of an
original indictment were dismissed.
He also admitted writing letters to the media and property
owners warning
that the fires would continue as long as people continued to
build next to
the protected land in Phoenix and Scottsdale. One note,
found April 29 said,
``You build, we burn again.''
Sands was arrested June 14 on a federal indictment accusing
him of setting
eight fires in seven homes between April 2000 and January
2001. The fires
sent fear through the upscale neighborhoods surrounding the
urban open-space
preserves and brought federal and local law enforcement
officials together
in a search for the arsonist.
Mario Lio, whose home was among those burned, said his
family still lives in
fear.
``There's something missing in my life because Mr. Sands
burned my home,''
Lio said. ``We're paranoid. We're constantly looking out the
window, looking
to see if people are watching.''
Sands became a suspect last April after police said he was
caught using a
red marker on a sign*** on a home under construction.
Police had been
monitoring the property since March, when leaflets reading,
``Thou shalt not
desecrate God's creation,'' were found there. The notes were
signed CSP, or
Coalition to Save the Preserve.

--

ZRT-800
PSI Pipes, V-Force Reeds, DG Silencer, Clutched, studded, and regeared!
www.geocities.com/zrt800guy

 
 
 

Infighting: ATVs vs. Snowmobilers vs. 4x4s vs...vs...

Post by spark » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 14:23:00

Unfortunately it's more than a couple.


Quote:
> Good man...someone who can see that we have differences, and can also
> understand that one sport has no more right to exist than another.
> Personally I get tweaked when someone rides by my house in the summer on a
> zoom-splat bike at 100+ mph on a small state road with a speed limit of
35.
> I would never do that. I own a fast bike, and have had it up to 155+, but
I
> was nowhere near houses, nowhere near other traffic, and the only one who
> could be killed was me. There wasn't anyone to***off. Its the same with
> sledders or any other sport...there is going to be someone who is stupid
> enough to do somehting to bring attention to themselves, and give others a
> bad impression of the sport. The Jet-Ski topic is the same...most go out
on
> larger lakes, away from houses, and do their thing. Some come too close to
> shore on a small pond and***off the residents. Don't blame jet-skis,
> blame the couple of idiots who are careless.

> Jim
> --

> ZRT-800
> PSI Pipes, V-Force Reeds, DG Silencer, Clutched, studded, and regeared!
> www.geocities.com/zrt800guy
> .


> > > Whats the difference between a Jet Ski on the lake in the summer, or a
> > sled

> > In the winter, the average Joe non-rider is inside with his/her windows
> > closed. In the summer they are outside. I believe this is in part of the
> > acceptance problem with ATV's as well. ATV's also leave a dust cloud.

> > Don't get me wrong, I grew up on Skaneateles Lake, had a boat. I worked
at
> > Otisco Lake Marina for 4 years while I went to college. Used to tear up
> that
> > lake with Baja's with 235hp V6 outboards. I own a 4x4 ATV and a sled and
> may
> > buy a street bike this year.

> > But all these sports are in trouble because more than a few are VERY
> > thoughtless riders that never seem to use their brains. We ride our
ATV's
> in
> > Lewis County on the Tug Hill. The seasonal roads are open to wheelers.
But
> I
> > stop riding completely in the fall hunting season even though I can
> legally
> > ride. I want the hunters to have their time undisturbed. All my machines
> > have stock, quiet mufflers. I stay on the trails.