SKI-DOO - BOGGING DOWN IN DEEP SNOW - help

SKI-DOO - BOGGING DOWN IN DEEP SNOW - help

Post by Byron Sheppa » Thu, 18 Jan 1996 04:00:00



Quote:
>Hey all you ski-doo buffs - here I am out in the middle of beautiful B.C. (Golden, BC right in the middle of the Kootenays) all there is, is lots
>of powder stuff, mountains, humungous vallies and a beautiful climate.  BUT ......
>my friend and I have noticed a slight problem with our snowmachines, I drive a summit 583 and he drives a summit 670.
>While driving in the deep snow, he noticed his machine bogging down for what he thought was engine problems.  I noticed
>the same problem a few weeks later with my machine.  It was just after a major snowstorm, and both our machines were having the same problem.\
>While driving in major powder snow, our machines would just bog down for no apparent reason.  We both came to the conclusion that it was snow plugging
>up the exaust.  By this point he was stuck going up a slight incline in 4 ft of powder snow. Just before this happened, he had motioned me
>to pass by him having his tracks already to gain momentum from.  My machine bogged down also.  There was not enough power to
>spin, and although the hill should have easily been climbed by both of us, strangly both of us bogged down.  It was at this point, that we noticed snow
>plugging up the exaust coming from the bottom of the belly pan and *** the engine. You would think that a company such as Bombardier earning in excess of 5 billion dollars a year
>would be able to recify a problem such as this on the drawing board.  But hey, hindsight is 20/20.
>Has anyone out there experienced this problem also?  Can you suggest any solutions that can be taken without a major overhaul?

I've only experience with ArticCats.  Going through major snow like
that causes problems on my brothers EXT 580 but not on my 580 Powder
Special.  We finally tracked it down to icing of the carbs due to the
powder getting in.   Both our sleds have hood vents but mine have
screens in them while his vents are open.  This seems to be the
difference.

We also thought it was exhaust but attempts to keep that clear didn't
help much.  Besides our two machines are similar in that regard.
Could be part of the problem though, especially if one was running a
little rich to start with.

Let me know if you solve it on that machine.  I gather you saw the
snow actually plugging the exhaust.  Kind of surprising to me that it
would be able to do that but stranger things have happened I guess.

There are a couple summits out our way, I'll keep an eye open for how
they are doing.

Byron Sheppard
Vancouver BC.
95 EXT Powder Special
93 Panther

 
 
 

SKI-DOO - BOGGING DOWN IN DEEP SNOW - help

Post by Doug Mill » Thu, 18 Jan 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>>Has anyone out there experienced this problem also?  Can you suggest any solutions that can be taken without a major overhaul?
>I've only experience with ArticCats.  Going through major snow like
>that causes problems on my brothers EXT 580 but not on my 580 Powder
>Special.  We finally tracked it down to icing of the carbs due to the
>powder getting in.   Both our sleds have hood vents but mine have
>screens in them while his vents are open.  This seems to be the
>difference.

Mark Heim posted earlier that underhood heat makes a big difference. I
have a buddy with a Poltax with those carb socks on it who was
complaining that the sled didn't run good up hills at slow ground
speeds. He finally modified an air box, plugged all the holes that
allow the air box to suck warm air under the hood, so it can only suck
cold air from around the handlebars. Day and Night for him.
Before, his sled got so bad it would only go 15 mph on the flat, and
this from a lightened sled and a 670 motor.
My Arctic Cat ZR's all suck air ONLY from behind the windshield, but
don't know about EXT's.
-Doug Miller

 
 
 

SKI-DOO - BOGGING DOWN IN DEEP SNOW - help

Post by Chuck Ri » Thu, 18 Jan 1996 04:00:00


: >Hey all you ski-doo buffs - here I am out in the middle of beautiful B.C. (Golden, BC right in the middle of the Kootenays) all there is, is lots
: >of powder stuff, mountains, humungous vallies and a beautiful climate.  BUT ......
: >my friend and I have noticed a slight problem with our snowmachines, I drive a summit 583 and he drives a summit 670.

: >While driving in the deep snow, he noticed his machine bogging down for what he thought was engine problems.  I noticed
: >the same problem a few weeks later with my machine.  It was just after a major snowstorm, and both our machines were having the same problem.\
: >While driving in major powder snow, our machines would just bog down for no apparent reason.  We both came to the conclusion that it was snow plugging
: >up the exaust.  By this point he was stuck going up a slight incline in 4 ft of powder snow. Just before this happened, he had motioned me
: >to pass by him having his tracks already to gain momentum from.  My machine bogged down also.  There was not enough power to
: >spin, and although the hill should have easily been climbed by both of us, strangly both of us bogged down.  It was at this point, that we noticed snow
: >plugging up the exaust coming from the bottom of the belly pan and *** the engine. You would think that a company such as Bombardier earning in excess of 5 billion dollars a year
: >would be able to recify a problem such as this on the drawing board.  But hey, hindsight is 20/20.

: >Has anyone out there experienced this problem also?  Can you suggest any solutions that can be taken without a major overhaul?

My Summit and several others I have seen all had this problem. The solution
was to increase the preload on the driven clutch - a lot.

 
 
 

SKI-DOO - BOGGING DOWN IN DEEP SNOW - help

Post by Mark Desec » Fri, 19 Jan 1996 04:00:00

You're right on the money there.  Deep snow causes a ton of drag...
 
 
 

SKI-DOO - BOGGING DOWN IN DEEP SNOW - help

Post by Byron Sheppa » Sat, 20 Jan 1996 04:00:00

Quote:



>: >Hey all you ski-doo buffs - here I am out in the middle of beautiful B.C. (Golden, BC right in the middle of the Kootenays) all there is, is lots
>: >of powder stuff, mountains, humungous vallies and a beautiful climate.  BUT ......
>: >my friend and I have noticed a slight problem with our snowmachines, I drive a summit 583 and he drives a summit 670.
>: >While driving in the deep snow, he noticed his machine bogging down for what he thought was engine problems.  I noticed
>: >the same problem a few weeks later with my machine.  It was just after a major snowstorm, and both our machines were having the same problem.\
>: >While driving in major powder snow, our machines would just bog down for no apparent reason.  We both came to the conclusion that it was snow plugging
>: >up the exaust.  By this point he was stuck going up a slight incline in 4 ft of powder snow. Just before this happened, he had motioned me
>: >to pass by him having his tracks already to gain momentum from.  My machine bogged down also.  There was not enough power to
>: >spin, and although the hill should have easily been climbed by both of us, strangly both of us bogged down.  It was at this point, that we noticed snow
>: >plugging up the exaust coming from the bottom of the belly pan and *** the engine. You would think that a company such as Bombardier earning in excess of 5 billion dollars a year
>: >would be able to recify a problem such as this on the drawing board.  But hey, hindsight is 20/20.
>: >Has anyone out there experienced this problem also?  Can you suggest any solutions that can be taken without a major overhaul?
>My Summit and several others I have seen all had this problem. The solution
>was to increase the preload on the driven clutch - a lot.

Hey, I didn't just quote them I actually said something....  :-)))))).

Anyway, I'd think that if the problem was insufficient pre-load that
you could tell this quickly by watching the shift rpm when hitting the
powder.  If it drops off the power band noticeably then increasing
pre-load would help.  Otherwise, probably not.

Byron Sheppard
Vancouver BC.
95 EXT Powder Special
93 Panther

 
 
 

SKI-DOO - BOGGING DOWN IN DEEP SNOW - help

Post by Byron Sheppa » Sat, 20 Jan 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


>>I've only experience with ArticCats.  Going through major snow like
>>that causes problems on my brothers EXT 580 but not on my 580 Powder
>>Special.  We finally tracked it down to icing of the carbs due to the
>>powder getting in.   Both our sleds have hood vents but mine have
>>screens in them while his vents are open.  This seems to be the
>>difference.
>Mark Heim posted earlier that underhood heat makes a big difference. I
>have a buddy with a Poltax with those carb socks on it who was
>complaining that the sled didn't run good up hills at slow ground
>speeds. He finally modified an air box, plugged all the holes that
>allow the air box to suck warm air under the hood, so it can only suck
>cold air from around the handlebars. Day and Night for him.
>Before, his sled got so bad it would only go 15 mph on the flat, and
>this from a lightened sled and a 670 motor.
>My Arctic Cat ZR's all suck air ONLY from behind the windshield, but
>don't know about EXT's.
>-Doug Miller

Ya, in our case overheating wasn't the problem.  The EXT's only suck
cold air from outside as does my wife's Panther.  Probably same in all
of Artco's line-up.

Byron Sheppard
Vancouver BC.
95 EXT Powder Special
93 Panther

 
 
 

SKI-DOO - BOGGING DOWN IN DEEP SNOW - help

Post by LOREN DAVID SADLE » Sat, 20 Jan 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


> : >Hey all you ski-doo buffs - here I am out in the middle of beautiful B.C. (Golden, BC right in the middle of the Kootenays) all there is, is lots
> : >of powder stuff, mountains, humungous vallies and a beautiful climate.  BUT ......
> : >my friend and I have noticed a slight problem with our snowmachines, I drive a summit 583 and he drives a summit 670.

> : >While driving in the deep snow, he noticed his machine bogging down for what he thought was engine problems.  I noticed
> : >the same problem a few weeks later with my machine.  It was just after a major snowstorm, and both our machines were having the same problem.\
> : >While driving in major powder snow, our machines would just bog down for no apparent reason.  We both came to the conclusion that it was snow plugging
> : >up the exaust.  By this point he was stuck going up a slight incline in 4 ft of powder snow. Just before this happened, he had motioned me
> : >to pass by him having his tracks already to gain momentum from.  My machine bogged down also.  There was not enough power to
> : >spin, and although the hill should have easily been climbed by both of us, strangly both of us bogged down.  It was at this point, that we noticed snow
> : >plugging up the exaust coming from the bottom of the belly pan and *** the engine. You would think that a company such as Bombardier earning in excess of 5 billion dollars a year
> : >would be able to recify a problem such as this on the drawing board.  But hey, hindsight is 20/20.

> : >Has anyone out there experienced this problem also?  Can you suggest any solutions that can be taken without a major overhaul?

> My Summit and several others I have seen all had this problem. The solution
> was to increase the preload on the driven clutch - a lot.

I have had a similar problem with my Summit 583. It wouldn't rev over
6,000 when in deep snow or under any heavy load. I figured it was in the

gone bad. Once it was replaced it was much more lively. I have had that
thing go out on me three times until we put the correct jet in it so we
didn't have to depend on the H.A.C. Ski Doo told me that their first run
of H.A.C.s were prone to falure. Guess there is something like that for
almost every new snowmobile. (i.e. clutch buttons on 1990 Indy 500s). I
ride in Colorado (plenty of powder here) and have never had trouble with
snow clogging the exhaust.  
 
 
 

SKI-DOO - BOGGING DOWN IN DEEP SNOW - help

Post by Darren Alessandin » Sat, 20 Jan 1996 04:00:00

I had the same problem with my Summit 583. Soft fine powder ices up the HAC and
creates the problem. I cut out small plastic vent blocks out of crazy carpet, and
use it to block the vents in those conditions. Problem is solved.

Darren Alessandrini
 95 Summit 583

 
 
 

SKI-DOO - BOGGING DOWN IN DEEP SNOW - help

Post by farmer.. » Wed, 24 Jan 1996 04:00:00

     I've read both replies to this question... and both are valid as far
as I'm concerned.  Increasing secondary spring pressure works, but does
not solve the real problem.

     Also, it's true... the first run H.A.C.'s for the 583's were bad, and
I believe there was a factory fix for them.  The reason I know this is
that I was one of the people that ordered a mid season release of the
first 670 Summits.  The 670 Summits came about two months behind schedule,
because SkiDoo was waiting for a new run of H.A.C.s to fix the problem
encontered with the 1994 583's.  As far as I know, all H.A.C.'s since then
are o.k.

     I have had the exacat same problem as you have when riding last year
in extremely deep snow in West Yellowstone, MT.  I too thought it might be
the H.A.C., but it tested fine, and with some friendly advice from
Yellowstone Adventures, the local SkiDoo dealership, I solved the problem.
 When riding in very deep snow, all of the openings, (hood, exhaust, cowl,
ect.) become plugged, and the under hood temperature becomes very high due
to lack of ventilation.  The H.A.C. system is not designed to compensate
for the extrememly high temps. that develope, therefore, the machine goes
into a very over-rich situation.  It basically boggs down.  You will then
notice that after opening the hood, and cleaning out the enigne from the
over-rich situation, it will run fine again, until under hood temps become
high once more.

      SkiDoo released a dealer fix for that problem for all of the 1995
Summit 670's (I don't know about the 583's).  It consists of the cold air
kit that comes with the Formula III's.  This hopefully allows the engine
to breath cold outside air (the air which the H.A.C. is, by the way,
sensing) and keep the over-rich situation from happening.  All 1995 Summit
670's were eligible for the fix as far as I know.  I don't know how long
that offer lasted.  I also am not positive that this is a perfect fix, as
we haven't had a whole lot of extrememly deep powder snow in Wash. State
yet, but it is here now.  This may fix the problem! (*** crossing fingers
***)

     Also note that the new 1996 Summits come stock with cold outside air
induction!

Kevin Riel
1994 1/2 Summit 670