The Future of Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze

The Future of Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze

Post by Colle » Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:22:31


Re: 2/11/02
I watched last night's LP for pairs live last night and am still not
sure what to think. I've been following pairs skating since I was
twelve and had a hard time making up my mind. I can make an argument
for either pair. My more serious concern is the effect this will have
on the pro (and any additional ISU level) lives of B&S. Will this
haunt them for years, in terms of touring and shows? I am afraid that
it will, which I find the greatest tragedy. Winning this medal might
end up being the worst result for them.

What we all need to keep in mind is that B&S did not have the impact
many would like to accuse them of. Yes, they are Russian. Yes, they
won. Yes, they were the 11th Russian pair in a row to do so. But the
problems are NOT about B&S. They can't do anything about the judging.
Four people went onto that ice, skated their hearts out, and left
their fate in the hands of nine men and women. No one should be
blaming them, and I believe that they have, under the circumstances,
handled themselves quite well. They are in a very awkward position.
They *do* deserve our congratulations, not for winning the gold medal
but for being one of the best of two pairs out there. Why should we
yank away praise for such a great performance (I did not say the best
of the night) because we disagree with the people assigned to make the
official decisions?

I feel for Sale and Pelletier. I debate at the national collegiate
level and I've lost rounds I knew I should have won-- because the
judges were idiots. It happens. But I have not allowed myself to
unfairly place that decision on the shoulders of the other team. Like
it or not, after you've finished your program, it's out of your hands.
If you don't like it, go try speed skating or luge. Sale and Pelletier
are right to be disappointed and would be appropriate in directing
frustration toward the ISU, but I do hope the sphere of their
frustrations does not expand to the other two people with no control
over ordinals.

Let's all be the good sports our third grade teachers taught us to be.
Isn't that what the Olympics are about? Why don't we give B&S both a
break and a hand while we are at it.

Colleen

 
 
 

The Future of Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze

Post by PhanMa » Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:38:50

I disagree, B&S accepted an award they KNEW they didn't achieve.

They bear some factor of blame.

Jc.


Quote:
> Re: 2/11/02
> I watched last night's LP for pairs live last night and am still not
> sure what to think. I've been following pairs skating since I was
> twelve and had a hard time making up my mind. I can make an argument
> for either pair. My more serious concern is the effect this will have
> on the pro (and any additional ISU level) lives of B&S. Will this
> haunt them for years, in terms of touring and shows? I am afraid that
> it will, which I find the greatest tragedy. Winning this medal might
> end up being the worst result for them.

> What we all need to keep in mind is that B&S did not have the impact
> many would like to accuse them of. Yes, they are Russian. Yes, they
> won. Yes, they were the 11th Russian pair in a row to do so. But the
> problems are NOT about B&S. They can't do anything about the judging.
> Four people went onto that ice, skated their hearts out, and left
> their fate in the hands of nine men and women. No one should be
> blaming them, and I believe that they have, under the circumstances,
> handled themselves quite well. They are in a very awkward position.
> They *do* deserve our congratulations, not for winning the gold medal
> but for being one of the best of two pairs out there. Why should we
> yank away praise for such a great performance (I did not say the best
> of the night) because we disagree with the people assigned to make the
> official decisions?

> I feel for Sale and Pelletier. I debate at the national collegiate
> level and I've lost rounds I knew I should have won-- because the
> judges were idiots. It happens. But I have not allowed myself to
> unfairly place that decision on the shoulders of the other team. Like
> it or not, after you've finished your program, it's out of your hands.
> If you don't like it, go try speed skating or luge. Sale and Pelletier
> are right to be disappointed and would be appropriate in directing
> frustration toward the ISU, but I do hope the sphere of their
> frustrations does not expand to the other two people with no control
> over ordinals.

> Let's all be the good sports our third grade teachers taught us to be.
> Isn't that what the Olympics are about? Why don't we give B&S both a
> break and a hand while we are at it.

> Colleen


 
 
 

The Future of Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze

Post by Caroline Migneaul » Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:04:25

Good lord.  What were they supposed to do? Hand the gold medals over to the
Canadians on the podium?

It's not like B&S skated poorly...they didn't.  Four minutes before Love
Story concluded, the commentators were raving about Meditation.

I am so sick of this already, and feel horrible for Anton and Elena, who are
glorious skaters and well deserving of the Olympic Title.

And I'm Canadian and still say that.

--

Caroline

--

Quote:
> I disagree, B&S accepted an award they KNEW they didn't achieve.

> They bear some factor of blame.

> Jc.



> > Re: 2/11/02
> > I watched last night's LP for pairs live last night and am still not
> > sure what to think. I've been following pairs skating since I was
> > twelve and had a hard time making up my mind. I can make an argument
> > for either pair. My more serious concern is the effect this will have
> > on the pro (and any additional ISU level) lives of B&S. Will this
> > haunt them for years, in terms of touring and shows? I am afraid that
> > it will, which I find the greatest tragedy. Winning this medal might
> > end up being the worst result for them.

> > What we all need to keep in mind is that B&S did not have the impact
> > many would like to accuse them of. Yes, they are Russian. Yes, they
> > won. Yes, they were the 11th Russian pair in a row to do so. But the
> > problems are NOT about B&S. They can't do anything about the judging.
> > Four people went onto that ice, skated their hearts out, and left
> > their fate in the hands of nine men and women. No one should be
> > blaming them, and I believe that they have, under the circumstances,
> > handled themselves quite well. They are in a very awkward position.
> > They *do* deserve our congratulations, not for winning the gold medal
> > but for being one of the best of two pairs out there. Why should we
> > yank away praise for such a great performance (I did not say the best
> > of the night) because we disagree with the people assigned to make the
> > official decisions?

> > I feel for Sale and Pelletier. I debate at the national collegiate
> > level and I've lost rounds I knew I should have won-- because the
> > judges were idiots. It happens. But I have not allowed myself to
> > unfairly place that decision on the shoulders of the other team. Like
> > it or not, after you've finished your program, it's out of your hands.
> > If you don't like it, go try speed skating or luge. Sale and Pelletier
> > are right to be disappointed and would be appropriate in directing
> > frustration toward the ISU, but I do hope the sphere of their
> > frustrations does not expand to the other two people with no control
> > over ordinals.

> > Let's all be the good sports our third grade teachers taught us to be.
> > Isn't that what the Olympics are about? Why don't we give B&S both a
> > break and a hand while we are at it.

> > Colleen


 
 
 

The Future of Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze

Post by Gd1agosti » Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:49:14

Could you imagine if they did not accept the medals. That would have disgraced
the sport and them. Not to mention good old STALIN would not have been to
happy. I could tell by there faces they knew they should not have won. The
seemed quite embarassed to take the ice after winning. Enough about the
European judges though duh we knew that was coming what about the CHN judge.
What a morron. DO i need to ask if his eyes were sqambled?
 
 
 

The Future of Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze

Post by manh » Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:46:35

It didn't seem to hurt Oksana's popularity, and she beat an American with a
sob story in another controversial decision.

However, there are some distinctions. Women's singles is far more  popular
in the States, Oksana is a more personable skater than B&S, and pros skating
has decreased in popularity.

Lewis.


Quote:
> Re: 2/11/02
> I watched last night's LP for pairs live last night and am still not
> sure what to think. I've been following pairs skating since I was
> twelve and had a hard time making up my mind. I can make an argument
> for either pair. My more serious concern is the effect this will have
> on the pro (and any additional ISU level) lives of B&S. Will this
> haunt them for years, in terms of touring and shows? I am afraid that
> it will, which I find the greatest tragedy. Winning this medal might
> end up being the worst result for them.

> What we all need to keep in mind is that B&S did not have the impact
> many would like to accuse them of. Yes, they are Russian. Yes, they
> won. Yes, they were the 11th Russian pair in a row to do so. But the
> problems are NOT about B&S. They can't do anything about the judging.
> Four people went onto that ice, skated their hearts out, and left
> their fate in the hands of nine men and women. No one should be
> blaming them, and I believe that they have, under the circumstances,
> handled themselves quite well. They are in a very awkward position.
> They *do* deserve our congratulations, not for winning the gold medal
> but for being one of the best of two pairs out there. Why should we
> yank away praise for such a great performance (I did not say the best
> of the night) because we disagree with the people assigned to make the
> official decisions?

> I feel for Sale and Pelletier. I debate at the national collegiate
> level and I've lost rounds I knew I should have won-- because the
> judges were idiots. It happens. But I have not allowed myself to
> unfairly place that decision on the shoulders of the other team. Like
> it or not, after you've finished your program, it's out of your hands.
> If you don't like it, go try speed skating or luge. Sale and Pelletier
> are right to be disappointed and would be appropriate in directing
> frustration toward the ISU, but I do hope the sphere of their
> frustrations does not expand to the other two people with no control
> over ordinals.

> Let's all be the good sports our third grade teachers taught us to be.
> Isn't that what the Olympics are about? Why don't we give B&S both a
> break and a hand while we are at it.

> Colleen

 
 
 

The Future of Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze

Post by cmh.. » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:02:06



snip

Quote:
>Let's all be the good sports our third grade teachers taught us to be.
>Isn't that what the Olympics are about? Why don't we give B&S both a
>break and a hand while we are at it.

What you say is reasonable, but there are a few problems. The market for
the ice shows is in the US and Canada, period. Second, the people hiring
the skaters tend to have names like Collins, Hamilton, Bezic, Browning,
etc. Be afraid, be verrrrryyyy afraid. Gee, I wonder how well Pasha is
doing these days? I'm afraid B&S's victory will be very hollow indeed, and
it's too bad for them. I think they are wonderful skaters. I just don't
think they deserved the gold.

--
Chris M. Hall, Assistant Research Scientist
Dept. of Geological Sciences, University of Michigan

Every day, in every way, I am not eating Riding Hoods

 
 
 

The Future of Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze

Post by onthinic » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 04:22:06

If you're so convinced that B&S should have won, how then do you
explain the magnitude of protests from around the world? If you're
sick of it, trying being a skater(s) who gets shafted because
pre-stacked decks in favor Russians, no matter what! Finally, people
are standing up against this gargabe!
Quote:

> Good lord.  What were they supposed to do? Hand the gold medals over to the
> Canadians on the podium?

> It's not like B&S skated poorly...they didn't.  Four minutes before Love
> Story concluded, the commentators were raving about Meditation.

> I am so sick of this already, and feel horrible for Anton and Elena, who are
> glorious skaters and well deserving of the Olympic Title.

> And I'm Canadian and still say that.

> --

> Caroline

> --


> > I disagree, B&S accepted an award they KNEW they didn't achieve.

> > They bear some factor of blame.

> > Jc.



> > > Re: 2/11/02
> > > I watched last night's LP for pairs live last night and am still not
> > > sure what to think. I've been following pairs skating since I was
> > > twelve and had a hard time making up my mind. I can make an argument
> > > for either pair. My more serious concern is the effect this will have
> > > on the pro (and any additional ISU level) lives of B&S. Will this
> > > haunt them for years, in terms of touring and shows? I am afraid that
> > > it will, which I find the greatest tragedy. Winning this medal might
> > > end up being the worst result for them.

> > > What we all need to keep in mind is that B&S did not have the impact
> > > many would like to accuse them of. Yes, they are Russian. Yes, they
> > > won. Yes, they were the 11th Russian pair in a row to do so. But the
> > > problems are NOT about B&S. They can't do anything about the judging.
> > > Four people went onto that ice, skated their hearts out, and left
> > > their fate in the hands of nine men and women. No one should be
> > > blaming them, and I believe that they have, under the circumstances,
> > > handled themselves quite well. They are in a very awkward position.
> > > They *do* deserve our congratulations, not for winning the gold medal
> > > but for being one of the best of two pairs out there. Why should we
> > > yank away praise for such a great performance (I did not say the best
> > > of the night) because we disagree with the people assigned to make the
> > > official decisions?

> > > I feel for Sale and Pelletier. I debate at the national collegiate
> > > level and I've lost rounds I knew I should have won-- because the
> > > judges were idiots. It happens. But I have not allowed myself to
> > > unfairly place that decision on the shoulders of the other team. Like
> > > it or not, after you've finished your program, it's out of your hands.
> > > If you don't like it, go try speed skating or luge. Sale and Pelletier
> > > are right to be disappointed and would be appropriate in directing
> > > frustration toward the ISU, but I do hope the sphere of their
> > > frustrations does not expand to the other two people with no control
> > > over ordinals.

> > > Let's all be the good sports our third grade teachers taught us to be.
> > > Isn't that what the Olympics are about? Why don't we give B&S both a
> > > break and a hand while we are at it.

> > > Colleen

 
 
 

The Future of Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze

Post by BobMa » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 05:07:32

Quote:

> > Good lord.  What were they supposed to do? Hand the gold medals over to the
> > Canadians on the podium?

Well, there's at least one case of a Gold Medal winner who
had a jeweller cut his in half, and sent it to the guy that
got the silver.

rm

 
 
 

The Future of Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze

Post by Kyl » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 07:30:24

Quote:

> Good lord.  What were they supposed to do? Hand the gold medals over to the
> Canadians on the podium?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:

> It's not like B&S skated poorly...they didn't.  Four minutes before Love
> Story concluded, the commentators were raving about Meditation.

> I am so sick of this already, and feel horrible for Anton and Elena, who are
> glorious skaters and well deserving of the Olympic Title.

> And I'm Canadian and still say that.

> --

> Caroline

> --


> > I disagree, B&S accepted an award they KNEW they didn't achieve.

> > They bear some factor of blame.

> > Jc.



> > > Re: 2/11/02
> > > I watched last night's LP for pairs live last night and am still not
> > > sure what to think. I've been following pairs skating since I was
> > > twelve and had a hard time making up my mind. I can make an argument
> > > for either pair. My more serious concern is the effect this will have
> > > on the pro (and any additional ISU level) lives of B&S. Will this
> > > haunt them for years, in terms of touring and shows? I am afraid that
> > > it will, which I find the greatest tragedy. Winning this medal might
> > > end up being the worst result for them.

> > > What we all need to keep in mind is that B&S did not have the impact
> > > many would like to accuse them of. Yes, they are Russian. Yes, they
> > > won. Yes, they were the 11th Russian pair in a row to do so. But the
> > > problems are NOT about B&S. They can't do anything about the judging.
> > > Four people went onto that ice, skated their hearts out, and left
> > > their fate in the hands of nine men and women. No one should be
> > > blaming them, and I believe that they have, under the circumstances,
> > > handled themselves quite well. They are in a very awkward position.
> > > They *do* deserve our congratulations, not for winning the gold medal
> > > but for being one of the best of two pairs out there. Why should we
> > > yank away praise for such a great performance (I did not say the best
> > > of the night) because we disagree with the people assigned to make the
> > > official decisions?

> > > I feel for Sale and Pelletier. I debate at the national collegiate
> > > level and I've lost rounds I knew I should have won-- because the
> > > judges were idiots. It happens. But I have not allowed myself to
> > > unfairly place that decision on the shoulders of the other team. Like
> > > it or not, after you've finished your program, it's out of your hands.
> > > If you don't like it, go try speed skating or luge. Sale and Pelletier
> > > are right to be disappointed and would be appropriate in directing
> > > frustration toward the ISU, but I do hope the sphere of their
> > > frustrations does not expand to the other two people with no control
> > > over ordinals.

> > > Let's all be the good sports our third grade teachers taught us to be.
> > > Isn't that what the Olympics are about? Why don't we give B&S both a
> > > break and a hand while we are at it.

> > > Colleen

 
 
 

The Future of Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze

Post by Tracy Johnso » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 00:10:36

Quote:

> Let's all be the good sports our third grade teachers taught us to be.
> Isn't that what the Olympics are about? Why don't we give B&S both a
> break and a hand while we are at it.

I don't see anyone here complaining about B&S themselves, which is what
your entire message, most of which I snipped for brevity, was about.

People are mad at the judging. People have posted messages of sympathy for
B&S because this whole mess puts them in an uncomfortable and unpleasant
position, to say the least. People who are complaining about the outcome
don't dislike B&S, and don't blame them for what happened. Therefore, said
people don't need admonishing about "being nice" to B&S.

Tracy