More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

Post by shalla » Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:47:34


Smart Ones Skate America: Russian skater injured in fall
Female pairs skater in Mercy Hospital
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04298/400975.stm

Quote:

Tatiana Totmianina of Russia landed headfirst on the ice after being
accidentally thrown from overhead by partner Maxim Marinin last night in the
final event of the Smart Ones Skate America competition. She lay motionless
on the ice for several minutes before being placed on a stretcher, treated
in a medical room and taken by ambulance to Mercy Hospital's severe trauma
unit.

She was described as being in "good condition" by Mercy spokeswoman Beth
Lawry early this morning, more than two hours after the accident, but no
other details were given.

{snip}

Dmitri Palamarchuk, coach of another Russian pair in the event, said shortly
before midnight that he had spoken with Marinin by phone and was told that
Totmianina had a concussion and broken ribs. Skaters and photographers who
were close to the stretcher said that they believed Totmianina retained
consciousness even while still on the ice.

{snip}

Marinin, who stands 6 feet 2, lifted Totmianina, who is almost a foot
shorter, with one hand high over his head while skating at close to top
speed. Then, he apparently lost his balance and, as a result, flung
Totmianini forward. The right side of her face hit the ice first -- with
great force -- and she slid backward a few feet before Marinin rushed toward
her.

For 15 seconds, there was only silence, and no one came to the ice to help
despite a shout from the audience to do so. Then, the pair's coach, Oleg
Vasiliev, and another official went to the ice. A paramedic reached the rink
about three minutes later.

A crew of city of Pittsburgh paramedics entered the building roughly 12
minutes after the accident. An ambulance did not enter until another eight
minutes had passed.
~~~
This is horrible! I am hoping and praying that Tatiana is going to be OK.
Hopefully Maxim was not injured as well. I am shocked that no one went to
help her. I am also shocked that they did not have a paramedic right on hand
in case of accident! When I went to Skate Canada (the international event) a
few years ago they always had an ambulance right out side the arena. Why
isn't this so at USFSA events? When something like this happens skaters need
help instantly. They also need medical personal who know not to move an
injured person in the wrong way in case of spinal injuries. Maybe I am
jumping to conclusions but this was not well planned if they don't have
medical help on hand with athletes attempting such dangerous moves.

 
 
 

More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

Post by shalla » Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:54:30

A crew of city of Pittsburgh paramedics entered the building roughly 12

Quote:
> minutes after the accident. An ambulance did not enter until another eight
> minutes had passed.
> ~~~
> This is horrible! I am hoping and praying that Tatiana is going to be OK.
> Hopefully Maxim was not injured as well. I am shocked that no one went to
> help her. I am also shocked that they did not have a paramedic right on
hand
> in case of accident! When I went to Skate Canada (the international event)
a
> few years ago they always had an ambulance right out side the arena. Why
> isn't this so at USFSA events? When something like this happens skaters
need
> help instantly. They also need medical personal who know not to move an
> injured person in the wrong way in case of spinal injuries. Maybe I am
> jumping to conclusions but this was not well planned if they don't have
> medical help on hand with athletes attempting such dangerous moves.

OK I missed this quote when i first read the article as I was so upset:

Quote:
Brian Chiera, assistant general manager at Mellon Arena, said that
organizers had an ambulance waiting outside the building. He said that the
city paramedics who attended to Totmianina had left the ambulance to take
care of her and that other drivers were summoned with a 911 call to bring
the ambulance inside.

---

I did jump to conclusions but still it seems awful long time for them to
take 3 minutes to get help to the skater. Maybe I am being too harsh because
what happened to Tatiana could have been deadly. I pray she does not have
any permanent injuries from this accident.

Namaste,
Shallah

 
 
 

More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

Post by Jennifer Lyo » Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:25:46

----------

Quote:

> This is horrible! I am hoping and praying that Tatiana is going to be OK.
> Hopefully Maxim was not injured as well. I am shocked that no one went to
> help her. I am also shocked that they did not have a paramedic right on hand
> in case of accident! When I went to Skate Canada (the international event) a
> few years ago they always had an ambulance right out side the arena. Why
> isn't this so at USFSA events? When something like this happens skaters need
> help instantly. They also need medical personal who know not to move an
> injured person in the wrong way in case of spinal injuries. Maybe I am
> jumping to conclusions but this was not well planned if they don't have
> medical help on hand with athletes attempting such dangerous moves.

They used to have paramedics on hand at my high school's football games, for
crying out loud! What's the matter with the USFSA?

I sure hope Tatiana is OK. She and Maxim come to Skate Detroit every summer,
and I always enjoy their performances.

 
 
 

More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

Post by Jennifer Lyo » Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:30:36

----------

Quote:

> OK I missed this quote when i first read the article as I was so upset:

> Quote:
> Brian Chiera, assistant general manager at Mellon Arena, said that
> organizers had an ambulance waiting outside the building. He said that the
> city paramedics who attended to Totmianina had left the ambulance to take
> care of her and that other drivers were summoned with a 911 call to bring
> the ambulance inside.

> ---

> I did jump to conclusions but still it seems awful long time for them to
> take 3 minutes to get help to the skater. Maybe I am being too harsh because
> what happened to Tatiana could have been deadly. I pray she does not have
> any permanent injuries from this accident.

I'm glad paramedics were there. But 3 minutes is a long time in an
emergency. I wonder why the ambulance wasn't kept inside the building?
 
 
 

More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

Post by Janice Schne » Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:23:37

Quote:
>I did jump to conclusions but still it seems awful long time for them to
>take 3 minutes to get help to the skater. Maybe I am being too harsh because
>what happened to Tatiana could have been deadly. I pray she does not have
>any permanent injuries from this accident.

>Namaste,
>Shallah

Three minutes is not that long, especially if the paramedics have to come from
a location not immediately inside the rink.  You have to figure in there
reaction time from the fall, time to realize that the fall was serious enough
to warrant medical attention, time for someone to call the paramedics and relay
information, etc.  

The article doesn't say, but my guess would be the ambulance was there in
plenty of time, since the paramedics would have to triage her, get her on to
the board and move her from the ice.  

Janice
"Alias" Fan - Spydaddy rocks!

"Kwan uses her body as a form of communication that links her to the music, the
audience and the ice." Elaine Anderson, Reno Gazette-Journal  7/25/02

 
 
 

More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

Post by Trudi Marrapo » Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:53:31


Quote:

> >I did jump to conclusions but still it seems awful long time for them to
> >take 3 minutes to get help to the skater. Maybe I am being too harsh because
> >what happened to Tatiana could have been deadly. I pray she does not have
> >any permanent injuries from this accident.

> >Namaste,
> >Shallah

> Three minutes is not that long, especially if the paramedics have to come from
> a location not immediately inside the rink.  You have to figure in there
> reaction time from the fall, time to realize that the fall was serious enough
> to warrant medical attention, time for someone to call the paramedics
and relay
> information, etc.  

> The article doesn't say, but my guess would be the ambulance was there in
> plenty of time, since the paramedics would have to triage her, get her on to
> the board and move her from the ice.  

> Janice

It appeared from my view that things happened just about as quickly as
they could, given the circumstances and that when something like that
happens, no one is sure at first what the situation really is. The
footwear of some of the personnel involved in carrying the stretcher was,
from what I understand, questionable on people who might have to trek out
to the ice at any moment. (I didn't see it, but heard that at least one
female member of the medical team was wearing rather fragile heels.)
Please, let's not spread around rumors that there were no medical
personnel on hand at Skate America...it's just not true.

It's true that some people shouted from the seats, and although I couldn't
hear what they were saying, the Post-Gazette reported they were yelling
"Don't move her!" Perhaps they were thinking of the stupid incident at
2000 worlds (was it not) when Dmitri Palamarchuk had people running out,
dragging him upright and slapping him on the face to make sure he was
conscious enough to leave the ice under his own power (duh), or perhaps of
times in their personal pasts when someone had made the mistake of moving
a person with a possible head or spinal injury (or were medical people
themselves). In any case, we then got a lecture from the announcer that
this was a serious situation and, believe it or not, our silence would be
the best help we could give.

The whole damn arena went as silent as a church. Yes, people murmur in
church and there was murmuring, but that was it. Even that wasn't a lot.

What a terrible situation to have happen. I also felt sorry for the kids
who inadvertently saw it. One of the flower sweepers who was off duty and
sitting behind me with her mom was quite traumatized.

In any case, so far seems to be so good for Tatiana. When I saw her
sitting in the hotel lobby right before I left for home, it made me feel a
bit better. But keep up the prayers and good thoughts--she could use them.
--
Trudi

"Cleveland still rocks."--Me

 
 
 

More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

Post by <cmh.. » Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:24:00



Quote:
>Three minutes is not that long, especially if the paramedics have to come
>from a location not immediately inside the rink.  You have to figure in
>there reaction time from the fall, time to realize that the fall was
>serious enough to warrant medical attention, time for someone to call the
>paramedics and relay information, etc.  
>The article doesn't say, but my guess would be the ambulance was there in
>plenty of time, since the paramedics would have to triage her, get her on
>to the board and move her from the ice.  

Janice:

You are exactly right. Three minutes to get people with equipment onto the
ice (it's important not to injure the responders, so they have to walk
gingerly) is not a very long time to respond. I've been involved in
running many competitions, some qualifying ones, and the key to medical is
to have the basics on hand to keep someone alive in the short run so you
can transport them. Also instant communications (short range radios) is a
must, and I'm sure they had them. There's not a lot you can do with a
massive head injury anyway except stabilize the spine and hope you don't
make matters worse by transporting. You're not likely to do brain surgery
on the ice! The big dangers in the first minutes have to do with breathing
and bleeding. In this case, once they saw she was breathing, they probably
wanted to get her on a board and off to a trauma center ASAP.

And before anyone jumps on me for not having experience in this, my wife
is a doctor and she has been the medical chair for many of our
competitions.

--
Chris M. Hall, Associate Research Scientist
Dept. of Geological Sciences, University of Michigan

Perfection is the enemy of the good

 
 
 

More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

Post by Isiaf » Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:20:36

I watched her fall in step motion.  Here is what I saw:

- first, holding hands when falling sure made catching oneself with your hands
an non-option. I was surprised that her hand catch reflex did not kick in.

- second, it looks like he tried to hold her up just with his head even as they
feel and this seems to sorta have worked a bit during midfall.

- third, most importantly, she landed with her head held back from the ice.  It
is rather obvious that she landed on her chest  with her head held up.  Then it
looks like the forces were too much and her head feel  less than a foot. Of
course, the intial fall acceleration was most likely not completely negated.

Sling Skate

My recommended reading for body fat control:
http://www.geocities.com/~slopitch/drsquat/fredzig.htm

 
 
 

More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

Post by Bev Johnst » Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:45:17

Quote:

> I watched her fall in step motion.  Here is what I saw:

> - first, holding hands when falling sure made catching oneself with your hands
> an non-option. I was surprised that her hand catch reflex did not kick in.

> - second, it looks like he tried to hold her up just with his head even as they
> feel and this seems to sorta have worked a bit during midfall.

> - third, most importantly, she landed with her head held back from the ice.  It
> is rather obvious that she landed on her chest  with her head held up.  Then it
> looks like the forces were too much and her head feel  less than a foot. Of
> course, the intial fall acceleration was most likely not completely negated.

> Sling Skate

> My recommended reading for body fat control:
> http://www.geocities.com/~slopitch/drsquat/fredzig.htm

My coach said that he watched this a few times and thought that they
were in trouble before Max even lifted Tanya.  For one thing, Max
seemed somewhat off and Tanya was skating much stronger than him
during the first part of the program.  As they approached the lift,
she was too far ahead of him, which probably threw his balance even
further off during the lift.  He also thought that she would have
faired much better if Max had just let her go instead of trying to
save her.  I'm sure it's just a natural reaction to try to break your
partner's fall and he was acting on instinct in that split second.  I
sure felt awful for both of them.  That is something that is terrible
to see.

Bev

 
 
 

More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

Post by WIsi » Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:09:21

What I thought was eerie was that Obertas and partner had a scary lift just
prior to T&M's skate.  I am sure the audience had their fill of shock for the
year.  Hopefully, this is the end of problems for the season.  Skate America
was enough.  Glad to know Tatiana is doing better.

-Wendy

 
 
 

More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

Post by Cmqu » Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:42:41

The local news show did a quick blip on the fall during the sports news and
showed an interview with the pair after she left the hospital. I couldn't
believe she was up and talking, what a tough cookie!  Poor little thing, her
face was black and blue and one eye was swollen shut.  What a horrific
experience.
 
 
 

More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

Post by Courtney McCai » Mon, 01 Nov 2004 10:27:59

I have been a paramedic since 1993, and have immobilized injured hockey players on
the ice. Getting to the patient--and moving the patient off the ice--often is the
biggest challenge. When we're wearing our non-spiked uniform boots, most of us
can't stand up on an icy street, let alone on a glass-smooth ice rink. From what I
saw of the accident and subsequent immobilization (in cutaway footage on ESPN), it
looked like medical personnel there did the best they could. I was a little
worried when I saw them attempting to slow down as they slid so close to her. It's
hard to maneuver around injured patients without sliding into them and potentially
worsening the patient's situation.

In many states, statutes and insurance both require ambulance personnel to be
present during the entire event (and that includes the warm-up). If EMS personnel
were at Tatiana's side in 3 minutes, they were already there in the arena. Many
sporting events stipulate that medical personnel cannot enter the field of play
until the referee directs them to go out there. There are a lot of factors
involved, but typically either the arena or the event organizer contracts with a
local EMS agency for event standbys. I'm not familiar with Pittsburgh's system or
with which entity organized this event.

Again, I work in the Houston area, and I'm not familiar with Pittsburgh's system.
But nationwide, most arena-based standbys involve backing the ambulance into the
arena's service bay or other designated emergency vehicle entrance, which
typically isn't far away from the performance area. Then medics walk to a
prearranged location by the sidelines where they can see the competitors and
spectators. If they're a good distance away from their ambulance, they'll bring
equipment (primary kit, splinting and immobilization equipment, usually some type
of defibrillator and oxygen) with them and leave it there by the sidelines.
Otherwise, that equipment stowed in the ambulance if it can be retrieved quickly.
While they are at the event, they are responsible for handling any medical-related
emergency that happens at that event, and potential patients include competitors,
athletic staff, spectators, vendors and anyone else who is in there. I don't know
how many people that arena holds, but I'd be willing to bet that Tatiana wasn't
the only patient they treated during that event (people tend to slip and fall near
the concession stands or down the bleacher stairs, and others have seizures,
strokes and heart attacks in their seats). A big arena like that literally
transforms into a mini city, with a ticketholding population of thousands. If a
patient requires ambulance transport to a hospital, first responders on scene
notify the dispatcher to send a transport ambulance for that patient.

One of the biggest complaints we in EMS hear from patients and their families is
the "What took you so long?!?" question. Time tends to stand still in emergency
situations, and often what seems like 15 minutes to a patient is actually 5
minutes in real time.

I don't know what the emergency response parameters are in Pittsburgh, though 12
minutes does seem a bit lengthly for a regular response--but as with many urban
areas, I'm sure Pittsburgh faces hourly challenges with traffic and high call
volume. If those Pittsburgh medics dealt with what we deal with here in the
Houston area, I'd bet that traffic was a big factor. This is why first responders
are so important at such a big event, where crowds and traffic often prevent a
quick response--first responders can size up a situation and begin treatment.
Another factor might have been other emergencies that may have occurred in the
arena or in that area of Pittsburgh at the same time. The next closest ambulance
(which might be an additional 5 to 7 minutes away, traffic forgiving) would have
been called in that situation. When that 911 switchboard lights up with frantic
calls from 12 different locations all in the same response area, public safety
personnel do the best they can to get there as soon as they can.

I am thankful that the medics were able to assess and immobilize Tatiana in a
sedate and non-hostile environment. There is nothing worse than trying to do your
job in an cacophanous arena, especially if it was a hockey-related fight and the
fans are none-too-pleased. My partner was hit in the forehead by an octopus that
had been thrown from the stands as we gingerly slid our way off the ice with an
immobilized, injured player. The fans had thrown trash all over the ice and
players were still yelling at each other from their benches. I remember not being
able to hear the injured player's weak voice as he tried to speak to us, because
the crowd was so loud. It was just awful. The Pittsburgh incident was totally
different and it was a relief to see that.

It sounds as if Tatiana will be fine. It certainly could have had a different
outcome--what an awful mechanism of injury, to fall from such a height and be
unable to block her fall. She's very, very lucky.

Quote:

> ----------


> > This is horrible! I am hoping and praying that Tatiana is going to be OK.
> > Hopefully Maxim was not injured as well. I am shocked that no one went to
> > help her. I am also shocked that they did not have a paramedic right on hand
> > in case of accident! When I went to Skate Canada (the international event) a
> > few years ago they always had an ambulance right out side the arena. Why
> > isn't this so at USFSA events? When something like this happens skaters need
> > help instantly. They also need medical personal who know not to move an
> > injured person in the wrong way in case of spinal injuries. Maybe I am
> > jumping to conclusions but this was not well planned if they don't have
> > medical help on hand with athletes attempting such dangerous moves.

> They used to have paramedics on hand at my high school's football games, for
> crying out loud! What's the matter with the USFSA?

> I sure hope Tatiana is OK. She and Maxim come to Skate Detroit every summer,
> and I always enjoy their performances.

 
 
 

More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

Post by Jim Reute » Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:39:40


Quote:
> I have been a paramedic since 1993, and have immobilized injured hockey
players on
> the ice. Getting to the patient--and moving the patient off the ice--often
is the
> biggest challenge. When we're wearing our non-spiked uniform boots, most
of us
> can't stand up on an icy street, let alone on a glass-smooth ice rink.
From what I
> saw of the accident and subsequent immobilization (in cutaway footage on
ESPN), it
> looked like medical personnel there did the best they could. I was a
little
> worried when I saw them attempting to slow down as they slid so close to
her. It's
> hard to maneuver around injured patients without sliding into them and
potentially
> worsening the patient's situation.

> In many states, statutes and insurance both require ambulance personnel to
be
> present during the entire event (and that includes the warm-up). If EMS
personnel
> were at Tatiana's side in 3 minutes, they were already there in the arena.
Many
> sporting events stipulate that medical personnel cannot enter the field of
play
> until the referee directs them to go out there.

I have worked at a lot of skating competitions in a lot of capacities - and
the referee's number one concern is the safety of the skater.  No USFSA
referee I know would do anything other than rush the medical people onto the
ice as fast as they could get out there.

I've had the experience of being treated on the ice by paramedics and
carried out and transported by ambulance - everyone is very cautious, it is
slippery, and nobody wants to  aggravate the injuries of the person being
treated.

On the other hand, laying on the ice while these people are being cautious
is very cold - in my case, they had to cone off an area for the rest of the
day because I melted such a dent in the ice. But I didn't lose conciousness,
wasn't disoriented - I'm sure everything moves much faster if there is
evidence of a serious problem (like with Paul Binnebose).

In my case, the Fire Station was across the street from the rink - and it
took them much longer to get to me than the paramedics for Tatiana, so I am
sure the people were there, on site, and watching the event from rinkside
(that's the way it was at Nationals in Los Angeles, and I assume that is the
norm for
ISU events). In LA, most of the medical people I talked to were involved
with skating in some way, and volunteered their time.

There are a lot of factors

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> involved, but typically either the arena or the event organizer contracts
with a
> local EMS agency for event standbys. I'm not familiar with Pittsburgh's
system or
> with which entity organized this event.

> Again, I work in the Houston area, and I'm not familiar with Pittsburgh's
system.
> But nationwide, most arena-based standbys involve backing the ambulance
into the
> arena's service bay or other designated emergency vehicle entrance, which
> typically isn't far away from the performance area. Then medics walk to a
> prearranged location by the sidelines where they can see the competitors
and
> spectators. If they're a good distance away from their ambulance, they'll
bring
> equipment (primary kit, splinting and immobilization equipment, usually
some type
> of defibrillator and oxygen) with them and leave it there by the
sidelines.
> Otherwise, that equipment stowed in the ambulance if it can be retrieved
quickly.
> While they are at the event, they are responsible for handling any
medical-related
> emergency that happens at that event, and potential patients include
competitors,
> athletic staff, spectators, vendors and anyone else who is in there. I
don't know
> how many people that arena holds, but I'd be willing to bet that Tatiana
wasn't
> the only patient they treated during that event (people tend to slip and
fall near
> the concession stands or down the bleacher stairs, and others have
seizures,
> strokes and heart attacks in their seats). A big arena like that literally
> transforms into a mini city, with a ticketholding population of thousands.
If a
> patient requires ambulance transport to a hospital, first responders on
scene
> notify the dispatcher to send a transport ambulance for that patient.

> One of the biggest complaints we in EMS hear from patients and their
families is
> the "What took you so long?!?" question. Time tends to stand still in
emergency
> situations, and often what seems like 15 minutes to a patient is actually
5
> minutes in real time.

> I don't know what the emergency response parameters are in Pittsburgh,
though 12
> minutes does seem a bit lengthly for a regular response--but as with many
urban
> areas, I'm sure Pittsburgh faces hourly challenges with traffic and high
call
> volume. If those Pittsburgh medics dealt with what we deal with here in
the
> Houston area, I'd bet that traffic was a big factor. This is why first
responders
> are so important at such a big event, where crowds and traffic often
prevent a
> quick response--first responders can size up a situation and begin
treatment.
> Another factor might have been other emergencies that may have occurred in
the
> arena or in that area of Pittsburgh at the same time. The next closest
ambulance
> (which might be an additional 5 to 7 minutes away, traffic forgiving)
would have
> been called in that situation. When that 911 switchboard lights up with
frantic
> calls from 12 different locations all in the same response area, public
safety
> personnel do the best they can to get there as soon as they can.

> I am thankful that the medics were able to assess and immobilize Tatiana
in a
> sedate and non-hostile environment. There is nothing worse than trying to
do your
> job in an cacophanous arena, especially if it was a hockey-related fight
and the
> fans are none-too-pleased. My partner was hit in the forehead by an
octopus that
> had been thrown from the stands as we gingerly slid our way off the ice
with an
> immobilized, injured player. The fans had thrown trash all over the ice
and
> players were still yelling at each other from their benches. I remember
not being
> able to hear the injured player's weak voice as he tried to speak to us,
because
> the crowd was so loud. It was just awful. The Pittsburgh incident was
totally
> different and it was a relief to see that.

> It sounds as if Tatiana will be fine. It certainly could have had a
different
> outcome--what an awful mechanism of injury, to fall from such a height and
be
> unable to block her fall. She's very, very lucky.


> > ----------

"shallah"

> > > This is horrible! I am hoping and praying that Tatiana is going to be
OK.
> > > Hopefully Maxim was not injured as well. I am shocked that no one went
to
> > > help her. I am also shocked that they did not have a paramedic right
on hand
> > > in case of accident! When I went to Skate Canada (the international
event) a
> > > few years ago they always had an ambulance right out side the arena.
Why
> > > isn't this so at USFSA events? When something like this happens
skaters need
> > > help instantly. They also need medical personal who know not to move
an
> > > injured person in the wrong way in case of spinal injuries. Maybe I am
> > > jumping to conclusions but this was not well planned if they don't
have
> > > medical help on hand with athletes attempting such dangerous moves.

> > They used to have paramedics on hand at my high school's football games,
for
> > crying out loud! What's the matter with the USFSA?

> > I sure hope Tatiana is OK. She and Maxim come to Skate Detroit every
summer,
> > and I always enjoy their performances.

 
 
 

More on injured Russian skater at Skate America

Post by Trudi Marrapo » Tue, 02 Nov 2004 07:46:27


Quote:

> I have been a paramedic since 1993, and have immobilized injured hockey
players on
> the ice. Getting to the patient--and moving the patient off the
ice--often is the
> biggest challenge. When we're wearing our non-spiked uniform boots, most of us
> can't stand up on an icy street, let alone on a glass-smooth ice rink.
From what I
> saw of the accident and subsequent immobilization (in cutaway footage on
ESPN), it
> looked like medical personnel there did the best they could. I was a little
> worried when I saw them attempting to slow down as they slid so close to
her. It's
> hard to maneuver around injured patients without sliding into them and
potentially
> worsening the patient's situation.

Thanks for bringing your perspective to this.

Quote:
> In many states, statutes and insurance both require ambulance personnel to be
> present during the entire event (and that includes the warm-up). If EMS
personnel
> were at Tatiana's side in 3 minutes, they were already there in the arena.

Indeed they were...as I said earlier, it is simply not true that there
were no medical personnel at the event. Of course there were. They simply
did not come racing onto the ice right away. And that in and of itself is
not surprising.

[snip]

Quote:
> Again, I work in the Houston area, and I'm not familiar with

Pittsburgh's system.

Quote:
> But nationwide, most arena-based standbys involve backing the ambulance
into the
> arena's service bay or other designated emergency vehicle entrance, which
> typically isn't far away from the performance area.

[snip]

One fortunate aspect of this accident is that it took place on the side of
the ice closest to the Zamboni bay, rather than on the opposite side. I
would assume the ambulance was backed into the same bay when needed.

Quote:
> One of the biggest complaints we in EMS hear from patients and their
families is
> the "What took you so long?!?" question. Time tends to stand still in
emergency
> situations, and often what seems like 15 minutes to a patient is actually 5
> minutes in real time.

That's probably true, too. It's also much easier to say how quickly
*someone else* should have acted, with the benefit of hindsight.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> I don't know what the emergency response parameters are in Pittsburgh,
though 12
> minutes does seem a bit lengthly for a regular response--but as with
many urban
> areas, I'm sure Pittsburgh faces hourly challenges with traffic and high call
> volume. If those Pittsburgh medics dealt with what we deal with here in the
> Houston area, I'd bet that traffic was a big factor. This is why first
responders
> are so important at such a big event, where crowds and traffic often prevent a
> quick response--first responders can size up a situation and begin treatment.
> Another factor might have been other emergencies that may have occurred in the
> arena or in that area of Pittsburgh at the same time. The next closest
ambulance
> (which might be an additional 5 to 7 minutes away, traffic forgiving)
would have
> been called in that situation. When that 911 switchboard lights up with
frantic
> calls from 12 different locations all in the same response area, public safety
> personnel do the best they can to get there as soon as they can.

Not only that, but they surely wanted to get their patient to a hospital
with a trauma center that could handle this kind of injury best. That
means the geographically closest hospital may not be the first choice. I
don't know Pittsburgh so I can't say how close Mercy is to Mellon compared
to other hospitals, but that may have been a factor in how quickly Tatiana
could get to the needed hospital.

Quote:
> I am thankful that the medics were able to assess and immobilize Tatiana in a
> sedate and non-hostile environment. There is nothing worse than trying
to do your
> job in an cacophanous arena, especially if it was a hockey-related fight
and the
> fans are none-too-pleased. My partner was hit in the forehead by an
octopus that
> had been thrown from the stands as we gingerly slid our way off the ice
with an
> immobilized, injured player.

I guess we don't have to ask where that was, do we? ;-) The scary part is,
I read this and the incident did not strike me as at all strange. "Oh
dear, someone got hit with an octopus at a hockey game." Sheesh...you'd
think people would know better, though, than to hit an emergency person
with anything while that person was transporting someone with an
injury...yikes.

Quote:
> The fans had thrown trash all over the ice and
> players were still yelling at each other from their benches. I remember
not being
> able to hear the injured player's weak voice as he tried to speak to us,
because
> the crowd was so loud. It was just awful. The Pittsburgh incident was totally
> different and it was a relief to see that.

It truly was. The crowd was utterly cooperative.

Quote:
> It sounds as if Tatiana will be fine. It certainly could have had a different
> outcome--what an awful mechanism of injury, to fall from such a height and be
> unable to block her fall. She's very, very lucky.

So far, so good. Keep her in your thoughts, all. At least she seems to
have been treated like the proverbial crystal vase this week.
--
Trudi

I'm in Ohio. Fall down and worship me.