This is so true

This is so true

Post by Bbarl » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:44:37


from article by Barry Bitten

After the 1998 Olympics, there were many hate sites set up on the internet,
several ***, to viciously attack the Olympic ladies gold medallist for no
other reason than that she had beaten a popular rival. Other internet trolls
and hackers have attacked any website or person who had anything positive to
say about one of their favored skater's perceived rivals. Those attacks have
continued until this day and can be expected to worsen over time. Do these
miscreants really believe that the skaters they worship would actually condone
this type of behavior?

 
 
 

This is so true

Post by Fiona McQuarri » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:58:43

: from article by Barry Bitten

: After the 1998 Olympics, there were many hate sites set up on the internet,
: several ***, to viciously attack the Olympic ladies gold medallist for no
: other reason than that she had beaten a popular rival. Other internet trolls
: and hackers have attacked any website or person who had anything positive to
: say about one of their favored skater's perceived rivals. Those attacks have
: continued until this day and can be expected to worsen over time. Do these
: miscreants really believe that the skaters they worship would actually condone
: this type of behavior?

A) It's Barry "Mittan", and you could cite the source.

B) This is highly ironic being posted by someone who herself has had
pretty vicious things to say about skaters. Pot, kettle, black, look at
self in mirror, etc. etc.

Fiona

 
 
 

This is so true

Post by Czare » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 04:52:40

Michelle Kwan is the princess of the group's established regulars. You can
even say, it is very fashionable to worship Kwan in certain circles of the
nobility. It has been also very fashionable in those circles to bash Tara
Lipinski for the last four years. Group's established regulars has been
bashing Tara for almost anything, even for things not related to skating,
like accusing her of "child ***", not sophisticated language, being a
"white trash", etc, etc... And those accusations didn't come from trolls,
but from so called "respected" regulars.
In the same time criticizing Michelle was considered "trolling".
Snobbish "nobilities" throughout the history have never changed...
Hopefully, after SLC they will finally leave Tara alone. Fortunately, there
is no sign that Sarah is going to be a new Tara's replacement. Yet...
Cezar


Quote:
> from article by Barry Bitten

> After the 1998 Olympics, there were many hate sites set up on the
internet,
> several ***, to viciously attack the Olympic ladies gold medallist for
no
> other reason than that she had beaten a popular rival. Other internet
trolls
> and hackers have attacked any website or person who had anything positive
to
> say about one of their favored skater's perceived rivals. Those attacks
have
> continued until this day and can be expected to worsen over time. Do these
> miscreants really believe that the skaters they worship would actually
condone
> this type of behavior?


 
 
 

This is so true

Post by WIsi » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:14:45

Quote:
>Michelle Kwan is the princess of the group's established regulars. You can
>even say, it is very fashionable to worship Kwan in certain circles of the
>nobility. It has been also very fashionable in those circles to bash Tara
>Lipinski for the last four years. Group's established regulars has been
>bashing Tara for almost anything, even for things not related to skating,
>like accusing her of "child ***", not sophisticated language, being a
>"white trash", etc, etc... And those accusations didn't come from trolls,
>but from so called "respected" regulars.
>In the same time criticizing Michelle was considered "trolling".
>Snobbish "nobilities" throughout the history have never changed...
>Hopefully, after SLC they will finally leave Tara alone. Fortunately, there
>is no sign that Sarah is going to be a new Tara's replacement. Yet...
>Cezar

Oh, I don't know about that.  When you look at the criticizers of Tara, they
are criticizing her decisions, her speech (skating commentary related), her
failure to grow as a person or skater, her stuck in the moment monotonous
interviews, etc because this is what applies to her skating and what she
constantly feeds us.  When people bash Michelle, they tend to focus on trival
things like they don't like the way she looks, etc. Sure, Michelle has had her
share of problems this year, but to call her washed up due to a silver and a
bronze is simply trollish.

The regulars here are here because they are passionate about skating.  They are
very knowledgeable about the different aspects of skating.  They know exactly
the complexity of what Michelle does, the beauty of her work and praise her for
it. They also recognize her weaknesses and discuss it, such as trouble with the
3/3 and slower skating.   When posters come in and say Michelle should retire,
she has nothing to offer, she is ugly, she is a loser, etc - they prove their
trollishness. It is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of trolling and
instigating.  When regulars disagree, it is not because they can not stand
another opinion, it is because they can not stand stupidity.  And that is
exactly what it is.

I would disagree that it is "fashionable" to slam Tara.  I would hardly call
that a trend.  But, when Tara gets on TV as an "expert" and cannot hold a
decent conversation, speaks with such poor English that you cringe, and can not
discuss other skaters or their abilities even when asked to, then people will
knock her.  They knock her for exactly this.  They are not making fun of the
way she looks, etc. That is trolling and it is not fashionable, it is immature.
 There is a huge difference. I can not remember any regular here doing that
unless you are counting resident trolls.

Please do not mistake appreciation and recognition for excellence as some sort
of "cultish" behaviour and brain washing.  Michelle is not the "princess" of
this board, she is a skater with incredible talent whom most of the posters on
this board appreciate.

Irina is another highly talented skater whom most of the people on this board
appreciate. Do you see any post on here questioning her Worlds win? I have seen
only praise for her.  For someone who dethroned our "princess" your theory does
not work.

If you do a history on the regulars here, I do not believe that you will find
such close-mindedness as you think.  You will find posters with a wide array of
knowledge and preferences for skaters.  You will not find trolling messages,
unless of course you are looking at our regular trolls.

-Wendy

 
 
 

This is so true

Post by Bbarl » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:12:41

TrollWlsil still hasn't gotten over Tara's superb Olympic performance which won
her the Olympic Gold Medal that Michelle Kwan was salivating over.  Michelle
probably got over the loss, but TrollWlsil never will.  
Troll Wlsil posted this ridiculous answer:
"Oh, I don't know about that.  When you look at the criticizers of Tara, they
are criticizing her decisions, her speech (skating commentary related), her
failure to grow as a person or skater, her stuck in the moment monotonous
interviews, etc because this is what applies to her skating and what she
constantly feeds us.  When people bash Michelle, they tend to focus on trival
things like they don't like the way she looks, etc. Sure, Michelle has had her
share of problems this year, but to call her washed up due to a silver and a
bronze is simply trollish.
"
 
 
 

This is so true

Post by Czare » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:38:19

Quote:

> I would disagree that it is "fashionable" to slam Tara.  I would hardly
call
> that a trend.  But, when Tara gets on TV as an "expert" and cannot hold a
> decent conversation, speaks with such poor English that you cringe, and
can not
> discuss other skaters or their abilities even when asked to, then people
will
> knock her.  They knock her for exactly this.

I really appreciate the knowledge of the group's regulars. I learn a lot
from them. I would never even dare to challenge them in any technical
discussion. However, this doesn't give any of them the right to claim to be
an oracle in judgment about skaters as human beings.
I love Tara on the ice. She is authentic, natural. She is not phony. Off the
ice she is equally natural. She is not paid to be an intellectual. I don't
go to Tara to ask questions about life. I want her to skate.
Tara's image doesn't please the *** feminists' eyes. She seems
childish, but this is her natural character. If she continues to appear
childish for the rest of her life, that is her character too. Nobody has a
m***right to judge that. The human character is too complex for simple
judgments. If a woman is very feminine and dependent, then it is her
character, and it is her right to remain that way. If she is very masculine
and superior, even if this is impossible for me to swallow, I have no right
to criticize her either. Well, as long as she is not trying to be too close
to me...
I am not accusing here anybody of being phony, don't read this wrong, but to
me, being natural, whatever it represents, is always better than being
phony, whatever it again represents.

Cezar

 
 
 

This is so true

Post by Locutus of Bo » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:56:38

Quote:
>I am not accusing here anybody of being phony, don't read this wrong,

Obviously someone HAS to be phony if you're so impressed with someone not being
"phony".

but to

Quote:
>me, being natural, whatever it represents, is always better than being
>phony, whatever it again represents.

And whoever you are thinking fits in that category.

Peg
==
rec.sport.skating.ice.figure FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions):
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This is so true

Post by Fiona McQuarri » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:55:50

: TrollWlsil still hasn't gotten over Tara's superb Olympic performance which won
: her the Olympic Gold Medal that Michelle Kwan was salivating over.  Michelle
: probably got over the loss, but TrollWlsil never will.  
: Troll Wlsil posted this ridiculous answer:

BBarlou, please explain how a post of this sort is different from the
behaviour criticized in the article you posted. Calling someone "Troll"
and saying that Kwan was "salivating over" the gold medal is exactly the
sort of obsessive over the top behaviour that Barry Mittan's article was
describing.

Fiona

 
 
 

This is so true

Post by Locutus of Bo » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:02:16

Quote:
>Fiona

>: from article by Barry Bitten

>: After the 1998 Olympics, there were many hate sites set up on the internet,
>: several ***, to viciously attack the Olympic ladies gold medallist for
>no
>: other reason than that she had beaten a popular rival.

Yeah, and those sites - many of which included stolen Mittan photos - were
closed down quickly. And I might note that there were fans of that OOOOO winner
who put up sites which were *** and contained viscious attacks of the 1998
silver medalist. And those which included stolen Mittan photos were reported to
him, and those sites were closed down, too.

Quote:
>Other internet
>trolls
>: and hackers have attacked any website or person who had anything positive
>to
>: say about one of their favored skater's perceived rivals.

And this works all ways, too, be it fans of the above two skaters, or Plushenko
or Grichuk fans, or whathaveyou.

Quote:
> Those attacks
>have
>: continued until this day and can be expected to worsen over time. Do these
>: miscreants really believe that the skaters they worship would actually
>condone
>: this type of behavior?

They don't think at all.

Quote:
>A) It's Barry "Mittan", and you could cite the source.

>B) This is highly ironic being posted by someone who herself has had
>pretty vicious things to say about skaters. Pot, kettle, black, look at
>self in mirror, etc. etc.

I still think he's referring to the backlash he got when he wrote something
about a popular skater last month. Must hurt to take that kind of heat when
your opinion isn't particularly fair to the skater in question. Now he's felt
the sting of endless rebuttals instead of the endless praise he was used to
when all he was known for online was his photography, and this is his way of
responding - kind of like Hersh writing an article selectively quoting himself
to "prove" he didn't always write harsh things about MK.

Peg
==
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   http://SportToday.org/
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   http://SportToday.org/

 
 
 

This is so true

Post by WIsi » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:36:27

Quote:
>TrollWlsil still hasn't gotten over Tara's superb Olympic performance which
>won
>her the Olympic Gold Medal that Michelle Kwan was salivating over.  Michelle
>probably got over the loss, but TrollWlsil never will.  

How incredibly stupid.  What is to get over? Tara won.  She outskated Michelle.
 I know that, the judges knew that - so what is your problem?  Of course, one
only has to guess that you have yet another screen name to add to your
collection Ann.  Get a clue.
 
 
 

This is so true

Post by WIsi » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:38:04

Quote:
>BBarlou, please explain how a post of this sort is different from the
>behaviour criticized in the article you posted. Calling someone "Troll"
>and saying that Kwan was "salivating over" the gold medal is exactly the
>sort of obsessive over the top behaviour that Barry Mittan's article was
>describing.

>Fiona

Thanks Fiona, but this is yet another screen name from our resident troll.
Best to plonk.  Nothing worthwhile to say and nothing to waste our time over.
 
 
 

This is so true

Post by WIsi » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:42:17

Quote:
>However, this doesn't give any of them the right to claim to be
>an oracle in judgment about skaters as human beings.

Cezar, the only ones that I recall judging skater's personal lives are the
resident trolls.  When people back Tara, they are bashing her skating-related
aspects of her life such as the decision to skip Worlds after Olys claiming
tooth aches when she was crisscrossing the country in celebrity appearances or
when she can only discuss her Gold medal and basically nothing else, even when
specifically asked about other skaters.  I don't know anything about Tara as a
person, so I would not think to judge her personally.  Since she is a public
figure and appears as an "expert analyst" for skating, then that aspect is up
for discussion. If the discussion has been negative up to this point, then
there is something there.

"Pick a little, talk a little, pick a little, talk a little, cheep cheep cheep,
talk a lot, pick a little more!"

The ladies of River City

 
 
 

This is so true

Post by WIsi » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:46:09

Quote:
>She is not phony. Off the
>ice she is equally natural. She is not paid to be an intellectual. I don't
>go to Tara to ask questions about life. I want her to skate.

True, but when she appears as a commentator for skating and discusses nothing
but her gold medal ,then people are going to talk.

Quote:
>If she continues to appear
>childish for the rest of her life, that is her character too. Nobody has a
>m***right to judge that

No one is judging her character. They are discussing how ironic it is that her
whole platform was based on growing as a skater, which we have seen very little
of in the past four years.  Granted, she has had some injuries, but I think
that it is the aspect of not being able to get out of the moment of 1998 that
has most people unimpressed with her.  She skated great that night and won.
Case closed.  However, we have all moved beyond that and are tired of waiting
for her to do the same.  If she wants to be a skater, then shut up and skate.
Show us that you are a skater and not the 15 year old from Nagano.
 
 
 

This is so true

Post by TCAX » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:46:19

Quote:
>>However, this doesn't give any of them the right to claim to be
>>an oracle in judgment about skaters as human beings.

********************
Cezar, would this include comments made about other skaters beside Tara, say,
Rudy Galindo?

Theo
"As long as you have the mental game down, your techniques are solid,
physically all you need is just your body to be there with you." -Venus
Williams

 
 
 

This is so true

Post by Czare » Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:05:47


Quote:
> >>However, this doesn't give any of them the right to claim to be
> >>an oracle in judgment about skaters as human beings.
> ********************
> Cezar, would this include comments made about other skaters beside Tara,
say,
> Rudy Galindo?

I know Theo what you are trying to say. In the thread you are refering to I
didn't judge Rudy as a human being. I don't know him, and even if I did, I
would never take advantage of this knowledge publicly. The thread was about
something else. Nevertheless, I don't want to start this again, if you know
what I mean...Don't awake the beast... I am not going to talk about it ever
again...

Cezar