ICE DANCING BAN

ICE DANCING BAN

Post by L.K. THOMA » Tue, 28 Apr 1998 04:00:00


I heard just recently on the news that they are planning to ban ice
dancing from the Olympics until they clear up the judging biases.

 
 
 

ICE DANCING BAN

Post by mike » Tue, 28 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> I heard just recently on the news that they are planning to ban ice
> dancing from the Olympics until they clear up the judging biases.

No, no..... they're "keeping" ice dancing.They will terminate Ladies,
Mens and Pairs events because of all the biased judging, etc.
I think it was that one Hungarian judge.   :)

Mike

 
 
 

ICE DANCING BAN

Post by Tin » Fri, 01 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> I heard just recently on the news that they are planning to ban ice
> dancing from the Olympics until they clear up the judging biases.

The IOC will keep Ice Dance in the Olympics, but has told the ISU to clean
up its act. The ban idea came from the Canadian representative, in obvious
disgust about B&K's placement.

 
 
 

ICE DANCING BAN

Post by Pat and John Colpitt » Fri, 01 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:



>> I heard just recently on the news that they are planning to ban ice
>> dancing from the Olympics until they clear up the judging biases.

>The IOC will keep Ice Dance in the Olympics, but has told the ISU to clean
>up its act. The ban idea came from the Canadian representative, in obvious
>disgust about B&K's placement.

(polite cough), Pound is a representative on the IOC panel who originates
from Canada.  But I believe, that from what I've read, he doesn't actually
represent Canada anymore, he represents the IOC.  Let's pretend he
came from Smallovia and try it again.  And the ban idea was a scare
tactic to get the isu to tighten up its rules, so all the dancers and the
judges know what direction they want ice dance to go, be it faster
or with more complicated footwork as long as they are moving in the
same direction.

Pat C

 
 
 

ICE DANCING BAN

Post by PosterBo » Sat, 02 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:




>>> I heard just recently on the news that they are planning to ban ice
>>> dancing from the Olympics until they clear up the judging biases.

>>The IOC will keep Ice Dance in the Olympics, but has told the ISU to clean
>>up its act. The ban idea came from the Canadian representative, in obvious
>>disgust about B&K's placement.

>(polite cough), Pound is a representative on the IOC panel who originates
>from Canada.  But I believe, that from what I've read, he doesn't actually
>represent Canada anymore, he represents the IOC.  Let's pretend he
>came from Smallovia and try it again.  And the ban idea was a scare
>tactic to get the isu to tighten up its rules, so all the dancers and the
>judges know what direction they want ice dance to go, be it faster
>or with more complicated footwork as long as they are moving in the
>same direction.

(Loud, impolite hacking sound), Pound IS titled a representative on the
IOC panel.  Quibbles like how he is appointed, and by whom, aside....
IMVHO Pound is Power personified in Canada.  When he says "jump,"
the COA (and other SGB's) ask "how high?"
(You may recall that Pound is the guy who bludgeoned  the CFSA into
assigning a charming young man named Jamie Eggleston(sp) to the
Olympic team, instead of the Cdn C'ships runner-up, because the COA
wanted a "youth" emphasis in that particular case, at that particular
time).
That instance, among others, was early evidence that Pound stretches
down from his higher perch to influence a body over which he has
an opportunity to apply pressure.  Not nearly as reprehensible as a
boss (even a president) demanding sex of an underling...but in the
same genre.
As the IOC official quoted yesterday has pretty well confirmed, Pound
was threatening on his own...without the sanction of the IOC.  Given
the chance Pound, having helped mold the "Canadian position," has
pursued its implementation.  And, I believe, will do it again.
Do I think he is a bad person?  No.
Do I think he is inefficient?  Certainly not.
Do I think he is power-deficient?  Most emphatically, NO.  Just the
opposite, IMO.
Do I think he interferes in areas he should not?  Definitely.
Do I think he always uses his power for the best end?  NO!

Cheers (and apologies for following the Hack with two sneezes,
but no sneers).

 
 
 

ICE DANCING BAN

Post by Roy Le » Sat, 02 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> IMVHO Pound is Power personified in Canada.

When the Rebagliati (snowboarder-***) affair came to the IOC Executive
Board, why did Pound abstain instead of voting for the athlete, which would have
saved Canada from the possibility of another Ben Johnson scandal?

Quote:
> As the IOC official quoted yesterday has pretty well confirmed, Pound
> was threatening on his own...without the sanction of the IOC.

1. Pound never said the IOC was going to kick ice dancing out - all he said was
that he was going to propose to his colleagues that it be considered. There's a
big difference between him declaring ice dancing is out and him suggesting that
removal be considered.

2. This other IOC official denied that the IOC is considering the removal of ice
dance. How can anyone say this? If I'm an IOC member, I can say that I'm not
considering it, but how can I say that my colleagues are or are not?

Roy

 
 
 

ICE DANCING BAN

Post by PosterBo » Sat, 02 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:


>> IMVHO Pound is Power personified in Canada.

>When the Rebagliati (snowboarder-***) affair came to the IOC
Executive
>Board, why did Pound abstain instead of voting for the athlete, which would
have
>saved Canada from the possibility of another Ben Johnson scandal?

   Even if it was not for show, Pound did exactly what he had to
do...abstain...because
of the clear conflict-of-interest.  Which exists because of his obvious (to
all but a
few) spear-carrying for the Canadian interest.

Quote:
>> As the IOC official quoted yesterday has pretty well confirmed, Pound
>> was threatening on his own...without the sanction of the IOC.

>1. Pound never said the IOC was going to kick ice dancing out - all he said
was
>that he was going to propose to his colleagues that it be considered.
There's a
>big difference between him declaring ice dancing is out and him suggesting
that
>removal be considered.

    And did I say Pound made such a statement?  If I did, I apologize, but I
surely
don't recall it.  Paper tiger?

Quote:
>2. This other IOC official denied that the IOC is considering the removal
of ice
>dance. How can anyone say this? If I'm an IOC member, I can say that I'm
not
>considering it, but how can I say that my colleagues are or are not?

    Meetings?  Telephone conversations?  Email?

     (Inside joke: How do we know the premier interfered in Mile 6?
MacGregor?
Dan Miller?  A: written records and testimony.  Maybe the IOC guys are
smarter
that our lox pols). <g>

Cheers.

 
 
 

ICE DANCING BAN

Post by Pat and John Colpitt » Sat, 02 May 1998 04:00:00

Re:  Pound

Quote:
>Do I think he is a bad person?  No.
>Do I think he is inefficient?  Certainly not.
>Do I think he is power-deficient?  Most emphatically, NO.  Just the
>opposite, IMO.
>Do I think he interferes in areas he should not?  Definitely.
>Do I think he always uses his power for the best end?  NO!

Do I think he's the only one guilty of power wielding?  no
Did I think that ice dance would be banned?  no
Do I think that this will have an impact on ice dance?  hmm, probably not.

Pat C

 
 
 

ICE DANCING BAN

Post by Roy Le » Sat, 02 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>    Even if it was not for show, Pound did exactly what he had to
> do...abstain...because
> of the clear conflict-of-interest.  Which exists because of his obvious (to
> all but a
> few) spear-carrying for the Canadian interest.

Well obviously there are many who see this as a conflict of interest, i.e. Pound
will do anything to get his Canadian ice dancing team the gold. So if he was so
careful to abstain and steer clear of the conflict of interest issue back in
February, why would he not do the same now, for show or not for show?

Quote:
> >> As the IOC official quoted yesterday has pretty well confirmed, Pound
> >> was threatening on his own...without the sanction of the IOC.

> >1. Pound never said the IOC was going to kick ice dancing out - all he said
> was
> >that he was going to propose to his colleagues that it be considered.
> There's a
> >big difference between him declaring ice dancing is out and him suggesting
> that
> >removal be considered.

>     And did I say Pound made such a statement?  If I did, I apologize, but I
> surely
> don't recall it.  Paper tiger?

You implied that the unnamed official's statement contradicted what Pound had
said.

I went back and did a little researching. IOC sports director Gilbert Felli was
the official who said "We trust this sport. There is no reason to do that [drop
it]." Felli is an administrator, he does not make decisions regarding what
sports are on the Olympic Programme. Pound is a member of the IOC. He, along
with the other 120 or so members, will decide. To trust Felli's word would be
like trusting the word of a civil servant when the politicians clearly do not
agree.

Roy

 
 
 

ICE DANCING BAN

Post by PosterBo » Sat, 02 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:


>Re:  Pound

>>Do I think he is a bad person?  No.
>>Do I think he is inefficient?  Certainly not.
>>Do I think he is power-deficient?  Most emphatically, NO.  Just the
>>opposite, IMO.
>>Do I think he interferes in areas he should not?  Definitely.
>>Do I think he always uses his power for the best end?  NO!

>Do I think he's the only one guilty of power wielding?  no
>Did I think that ice dance would be banned?  no
>Do I think that this will have an impact on ice dance?  hmm, probably not.

     Hurrah!!
     We are in complete agreement on the first two!
     And, if you would modify "impact" to read major impact, we could be
three-for-three.

Thanks, and
Cheers.

 
 
 

ICE DANCING BAN

Post by fj.. » Sat, 02 May 1998 04:00:00

Pound says it's decided in advance.... maybe? But in Nagano, I think I would
have placed the top 4 exactly where they finished. B&K were clearly 4th.
However at World's IMO it was a little closer and I think depending on what
you're looking for there could have been some placement shifts in the top 3.

Joe

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ICE DANCING BAN

Post by PosterBo » Sun, 03 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>Pound says it's decided in advance.... maybe?

   Can you give us a reference to the source of this?  URL would be helpful.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers.

 
 
 

ICE DANCING BAN

Post by HILL JANET SW » Sun, 03 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>Well obviously there are many who see this as a conflict of interest, i.e. Pound
>will do anything to get his Canadian ice dancing team the gold. So if he was so
>careful to abstain and steer clear of the conflict of interest issue back in
>February, why would he not do the same now, for show or not for show?

well let's get real.  who else would have brought forth a motion about ice
dancing?  If (I said "if") there is a significant "power/politics" factor
in ice dance judging, the countries that are IN a position of power are
not going to make a stink.  The countries that have not yet been affected
are probably wise to "lie low".  If the skaters from the country you are
from have had a 12-year beef with ice dancing judging, so that you KNOW
something about what's being alleged, and if a large public furore arises
(as it did), and if you know/believe that no one else in a position to do
so is going to make a move, perhaps you feel honor bound to do it
yourself.

        janet
--

 
 
 

ICE DANCING BAN

Post by PosterBo » Sun, 03 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:



>>Well obviously there are many who see this as a conflict of interest, i.e.
Pound
>>will do anything to get his Canadian ice dancing team the gold. So if he
was so
>>careful to abstain and steer clear of the conflict of interest issue back
in
>>February, why would he not do the same now, for show or not for show?

>well let's get real.  who else would have brought forth a motion about ice
>dancing?  If (I said "if") there is a significant "power/politics" factor
>in ice dance judging, the countries that are IN a position of power are
>not going to make a stink.  The countries that have not yet been affected
>are probably wise to "lie low".  If the skaters from the country you are
>from have had a 12-year beef with ice dancing judging, so that you KNOW
>something about what's being alleged, and if a large public furore arises
>(as it did), and if you know/believe that no one else in a position to do
>so is going to make a move, perhaps you feel honor bound to do it
>yourself.

  Thanks, Janet.  You make my point, very well.
  That is exactly WHO I would expect to try to get ice dancing (or any other
component) tossed from the Olympics...someone who is carrying a spear
for "his" terribly-abused country, instead of acting as the original poster
suggested*** Pound is NOW, a board member of the IOC...and no longer
 a rep of/for Canada.

Thanks, again and
Cheers.

 
 
 

ICE DANCING BAN

Post by Kkon » Mon, 04 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:
>well let's get real.  who else would have brought forth a motion about ice
>dancing?  If (I said "if") there is a significant "power/politics" factor
>in ice dance judging, the countries that are IN a position of power are
>not going to make a stink.  The countries that have not yet been affected
>are probably wise to "lie low".  If the skaters from the country you are
>from have had a 12-year beef with ice dancing judging, so that you KNOW
>something about what's being alleged, and if a large public furore arises
>(as it did), and if you know/believe that no one else in a position to do
>so is going to make a move, perhaps you feel honor bound to do it
>yourself.

>    janet

Well, that's the whole point of the conflict of interest. Pound's original
statement was that the IOC was "embarrassed" by the ice dance judging and
ranted and raved about pulling it from the Olympics. Now we have a statement
from a spokesperson from the IOC at their meeting who said there was never any
intention of "pulling" dance from the Winter Games.  Pound's interest was never
really about the IOC but about  Canadian "pride." He saw it as a good PR move
to show Canadians he was fighting for them, nothing more.

The ISU is not going to let the IOC exclude dance from the Winter Games. All
the ISU has to do is say, fine, we'll pull all of skating out. Then you have a
Winter Games that is not  worth anything to the TV market - bye, bye mega
millions and bye, bye the Winter Games. The ISU knows that and so does the IOC.